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Surviving the Void

orpheuskingstone

User ID: 42108372
United States
08/31/2013 12:59 AM
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Re: Surviving the Void
sorry for interrupting the adults BTW
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29203778

only the song of silence soothes every soul.
orpheuskingstone

User ID: 42108372
United States
08/31/2013 01:07 AM
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Re: Surviving the Void
kai, could you resolve an isse i am having..

what is the metaphor for this..

only the song of silence soothes every soul.
Kai (VALIS) (OP)

User ID: 25570375
United States
08/31/2013 01:10 AM
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Re: Surviving the Void
kai, could you resolve an isse i am having..

what is the metaphor for this..

Quoting: orpheuskingstone

Looks (to me) like a representation of dimensional flux. Something which appears to be "3 dimensional" but which is in a constant state of change. It possibly incorporates 4D (time) as it slides and then goes higher when it morphs into an unintelligible form and then returns to "3D" and starts again.
- The Spider Kid
orpheuskingstone

User ID: 42108372
United States
08/31/2013 01:12 AM
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Re: Surviving the Void
kai, could you resolve an isse i am having..

what is the metaphor for this..

Quoting: orpheuskingstone

Looks (to me) like a representation of dimensional flux. Something which appears to be "3 dimensional" but which is in a constant state of change. It possibly incorporates 4D (time) as it slides and then goes higher when it morphs into an unintelligible form and then returns to "3D" and starts again.
Quoting: Kai (VALIS)

if another dimension is added by simply drawing another angle 90 degrees from every other, why is this a 4d object?

my head hurts over this one, and i thought i would at least TRY to stay on topic.

only the song of silence soothes every soul.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 29203778
United States
08/31/2013 01:14 AM
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Re: Surviving the Void
>>I am here and able to perceive other things.<<

Descartes might have once said something similar.

>>in a way which will fulfill all obligations to them, then I cannot go wrong.<<

hmmm.. is this possible? and how can you know all those obligations?

and are we truley obligated? once again sorry, so many questions.. not playing with you though it is fascinating subject. but right here it gets very complicated. it may have been Kant that dissected Descates line of inquiry but its all running together for me at the moment.

Thanks Kai LOL
Kai (VALIS) (OP)

User ID: 25570375
United States
08/31/2013 01:15 AM
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Re: Surviving the Void
kai, could you resolve an isse i am having..

what is the metaphor for this..

Quoting: orpheuskingstone

Looks (to me) like a representation of dimensional flux. Something which appears to be "3 dimensional" but which is in a constant state of change. It possibly incorporates 4D (time) as it slides and then goes higher when it morphs into an unintelligible form and then returns to "3D" and starts again.
Quoting: Kai (VALIS)

if another dimension is added by simply drawing another angle 90 degrees from every other, why is this a 4d object?

my head hurts over this one, and i thought i would at least TRY to stay on topic.

Quoting: orpheuskingstone

The timing and movement represents the 4th dimension (4D being time). If we were looking at a solid (non-evolving) object, I'd say it was just 3D. The fact that it is morphing (to me) represents 4D space.
- The Spider Kid
orpheuskingstone

User ID: 42108372
United States
08/31/2013 01:17 AM
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Re: Surviving the Void
well amigo, its nitey nite time for us.

thanks for having us.

only the song of silence soothes every soul.
orpheuskingstone

User ID: 42108372
United States
08/31/2013 01:18 AM
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Re: Surviving the Void
i will try to write a good metaphor, and i will get back to you.

slepp well wesley, most likely kill you in the mornin'

jew tang!
only the song of silence soothes every soul.
eurydicekingstone

User ID: 42108372
United States
08/31/2013 01:22 AM
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Re: Surviving the Void
have fun in the void everyone, sorry for the earlier distraction.

night.
Triscuit
User ID: 7007541
United States
08/31/2013 01:23 AM
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Re: Surviving the Void
UHH.... Can we get back to talking about the void?

Surely my question on how to identify with the void and ascertain recognition is a more worthwhile direction of focus than whatever silly game y'all playin'
Quoting: Triscuit 7007541

Yo. Respect.

That's a hard question. But I will do my best:

Identification within and of the void is very difficult. It is a thing which is essentially formless. It is the convergence of all possible realities which culminates in an ultimate uncertainty. However, if I had to quantify I'd say this...

When you are basically unsure that anything you have ever experienced was REAL (in the traditional sense) you have entered the void. When everything you experience (every conversation you have, everything you see, everything you hear) seems to possibly mean multiple things and possibly be from multiple places...you are there.
Quoting: Kai (VALIS)

Do you notice a "popping" over to the other-side, or an abrupt realization that you are there?

Or is it a more gradual slipping into the state as the multidimensionality seeps through?

Thanks for your input and Perspective :D
En Lakesh
Kai (VALIS) (OP)

User ID: 25570375
United States
08/31/2013 01:27 AM
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Re: Surviving the Void
>>I am here and able to perceive other things.<<

Descartes might have once said something similar.

>>in a way which will fulfill all obligations to them, then I cannot go wrong.<<

hmmm.. is this possible? and how can you know all those obligations?

and are we truley obligated? once again sorry, so many questions.. not playing with you though it is fascinating subject. but right here it gets very complicated. it may have been Kant that dissected Descates line of inquiry but its all running together for me at the moment.

Thanks Kai LOL
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29203778

We cannot really know all obligations. But we can attempt to. So long as we make the effort, I believe we are successful. I always try to keep this in mind:

"If, by thinking, I am creating the possibility that said thought will lead to the creation of a thing which can attain free will, then I have a responsibility to allow that thing its freedom. Thus I attempt not to erase anything which I have created."

And our "obligations" are the individual's to discern. It is my belief that I have an obligation. But I do not enforce that on others.

Excellent questions, my friend.
- The Spider Kid
andreidita

User ID: 44797843
Romania
08/31/2013 01:27 AM
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Re: Surviving the Void
I see.

The problem I find in that kind of thinking is that there ARE things we can know. For instance...I know I exist. I do not necessarily know in what capacity I exist...but I know that I am here and able to perceive other things. What you are describing is the hardest part of dealing with the void. My solution has always been to think this way:

Rather than "I know nothing for certain." I think that "I know EVERYTHING is for certain." I can assume that ALL possibilities exist simultaneously and that every possible answer is the right one.

I.e. Am I talking to another person or am I talking to a projection of myself? Or is it an entity inhabiting the person I am talking to? If I assume that it is possibly ALL of these answers and act in a way which will fulfill all obligations to them, then I cannot go wrong.
Quoting: Kai (VALIS)

or in short
the shift from Either Or linear paradigm
to the AND AND quantum paradigm :)
Kai (VALIS) (OP)

User ID: 25570375
United States
08/31/2013 01:29 AM
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Re: Surviving the Void
UHH.... Can we get back to talking about the void?

Surely my question on how to identify with the void and ascertain recognition is a more worthwhile direction of focus than whatever silly game y'all playin'
Quoting: Triscuit 7007541

Yo. Respect.

That's a hard question. But I will do my best:

Identification within and of the void is very difficult. It is a thing which is essentially formless. It is the convergence of all possible realities which culminates in an ultimate uncertainty. However, if I had to quantify I'd say this...

When you are basically unsure that anything you have ever experienced was REAL (in the traditional sense) you have entered the void. When everything you experience (every conversation you have, everything you see, everything you hear) seems to possibly mean multiple things and possibly be from multiple places...you are there.
Quoting: Kai (VALIS)

Do you notice a "popping" over to the other-side, or an abrupt realization that you are there?

Or is it a more gradual slipping into the state as the multidimensionality seeps through?

Thanks for your input and Perspective :D
En Lakesh
Quoting: Triscuit 7007541

The first time I went, it was a gradual shift. More and more things began to align and become obvious as the days went on. But since then I have noticed "popping" between the sides. There are times when I feel totally "out" and then I will suddenly get a rush of the void all at once.
- The Spider Kid
andreidita

User ID: 44797843
Romania
08/31/2013 01:31 AM
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Re: Surviving the Void
>>I am here and able to perceive other things.<<

Descartes might have once said something similar.

>>in a way which will fulfill all obligations to them, then I cannot go wrong.<<

hmmm.. is this possible? and how can you know all those obligations?

and are we truley obligated? once again sorry, so many questions.. not playing with you though it is fascinating subject. but right here it gets very complicated. it may have been Kant that dissected Descates line of inquiry but its all running together for me at the moment.

Thanks Kai LOL
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29203778

there is a very good book on philosophy of language which explains language in normative fashion based on commitment and entitlement by a modern american kant :)

andreidita

User ID: 44797843
Romania
08/31/2013 01:38 AM
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Re: Surviving the Void
hmmm.. is this possible? and how can you know all those obligations?

and are we truley obligated? once again sorry, so many questions.. not playing with you though it is fascinating subject. but right here it gets very complicated. it may have been Kant that dissected Descates line of inquiry but its all running together for me at the moment.

Thanks Kai LOL
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29203778

the problem of knowing obligation presuppose that the source of the obligation is external (i.e. state)

in the realm of the void/free will obligations are a matter of undertaking them, of creating them out of your own free will
Kai (VALIS) (OP)

User ID: 25570375
United States
08/31/2013 01:39 AM
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Re: Surviving the Void
hmmm.. is this possible? and how can you know all those obligations?

and are we truley obligated? once again sorry, so many questions.. not playing with you though it is fascinating subject. but right here it gets very complicated. it may have been Kant that dissected Descates line of inquiry but its all running together for me at the moment.

Thanks Kai LOL
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29203778

the problem of knowing obligation presuppose that the source of the obligation is external (i.e. state)

in the realm of the void/free will obligations are a matter of undertaking them, of creating them out of your own free will
Quoting: andreidita

Bingo. Well said, my friend.
- The Spider Kid
andreidita

User ID: 44797843
Romania
08/31/2013 01:42 AM
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Re: Surviving the Void
hmmm.. is this possible? and how can you know all those obligations?

and are we truley obligated? once again sorry, so many questions.. not playing with you though it is fascinating subject. but right here it gets very complicated. it may have been Kant that dissected Descates line of inquiry but its all running together for me at the moment.

Thanks Kai LOL
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29203778

the problem of knowing obligation presuppose that the source of the obligation is external (i.e. state)

in the realm of the void/free will obligations are a matter of undertaking them, of creating them out of your own free will
Quoting: andreidita

Bingo. Well said, my friend.
Quoting: Kai (VALIS)

:)
so it's basically more of a problem of courage in processing and undertaking on the fly many, than a problem of knowledge
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 29203778
United States
08/31/2013 01:46 AM
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Re: Surviving the Void
>>"If, by thinking, I am creating the possibility that said thought will lead to the creation of a thing which can attain free will, then I have a responsibility to allow that thing its freedom. Thus I attempt not to erase anything which I have created."<<

had to read that a few times. Guard! arrest that thought! I do this a lot with the ones that may not have a pleasant outcome. in fact it is my stratagy. are you saying we shouldnt do this?

>>And our "obligations" are the individual's to discern. It is my belief that I have an obligation. But I do not enforce that on others. <<

what type of obligation and why? if you dont "mind"..

hi andreidita, that was helpful. I like short! and simple and if it wernt for the consensus reality we are all seemingly a part of here then would probably keep it that way. (simple) however there are huge influences that seem to want otherwise (TPTB)
andreidita

User ID: 44797843
Romania
08/31/2013 01:53 AM
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Re: Surviving the Void
hi andreidita, that was helpful. I like short! and simple and if it wernt for the consensus reality we are all seemingly a part of here then would probably keep it that way. (simple) however there are huge influences that seem to want otherwise (TPTB)
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29203778

it is nice to meet one which has grip of the abstract ideas entertained by the likes of descartes and kant, btw :)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 29203778
United States
08/31/2013 02:15 AM
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Re: Surviving the Void
>>the problem of knowing obligation presuppose that the source of the obligation is external (i.e. state)

in the realm of the void/free will obligations are a matter of undertaking them, of creating them out of your own free will<<

wow! that is so rich.

>>so it's basically more of a problem of courage in processing and undertaking on the fly many, than a problem of knowledge<<

and so right now for me. and the book you refer too.

I want to read so much but decided to start a self study in Law which is easily the most complicated subject ever but I am quite surprised by what Im learning from it.

Ive been dropping links here and there on some of the stuff because it is so incredible. it was very frustrating for the first year or two and quite a dreadful study but I feel the hard part is over and now a lot of it is clicking.

at one point I had to force myself to continue because I felt I was wasting precious time on it and taking away from my study in spiritualality. shortly after that I started to discover that it IS spiritual. sounds crazy but it is.

there is so much I could say about this but its getting late here so maybe another time.
andreidita

User ID: 44797843
Romania
08/31/2013 02:29 AM
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Re: Surviving the Void
>>the problem of knowing obligation presuppose that the source of the obligation is external (i.e. state)

in the realm of the void/free will obligations are a matter of undertaking them, of creating them out of your own free will<<

wow! that is so rich.

>>so it's basically more of a problem of courage in processing and undertaking on the fly many, than a problem of knowledge<<

and so right now for me. and the book you refer too.

I want to read so much but decided to start a self study in Law which is easily the most complicated subject ever but I am quite surprised by what Im learning from it.

Ive been dropping links here and there on some of the stuff because it is so incredible. it was very frustrating for the first year or two and quite a dreadful study but I feel the hard part is over and now a lot of it is clicking.

at one point I had to force myself to continue because I felt I was wasting precious time on it and taking away from my study in spiritualality. shortly after that I started to discover that it IS spiritual. sounds crazy but it is.

there is so much I could say about this but its getting late here so maybe another time.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29203778

development of the higher abstract mind and of true understanding of how reality works is the true spirituality of today.
from 12 to 24 i was full time into science (from chemistry to economics), philosophy and logics. and between 24 and 30 added also esoteric knowledge.
at 30 the mind was ready to make the jump into the Void.
Keneh

User ID: 2482665
United States
08/31/2013 12:47 PM
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Re: Surviving the Void
Thank you for the thread, op. copied, pasted and saved.

Salvia sent me.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28558316

Right on! Me too!
Keneh
Kai (VALIS) (OP)

User ID: 25570375
United States
09/04/2013 09:47 PM
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Re: Surviving the Void

- The Spider Kid
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 4492647
United Kingdom
09/04/2013 09:56 PM
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Re: Surviving the Void
KE KE KE KE KE
\
Kai (VALIS) (OP)

User ID: 25570375
United States
09/04/2013 10:00 PM
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- The Spider Kid
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 6331917
United States
09/05/2013 02:00 PM
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Re: Surviving the Void
There is a place the mind can take us which has been experienced by many but often mislabeled as a "delusional state." It seems to have been experienced by many philosophical thinkers, "prophets," religious and spiritual leaders, and notably by many who claim to have experienced an "awakening." It is a place where every idea, dormant in the mind or otherwise, can be linked back to a central point. It is a place where things we have seen every day become mysterious and other things seem to make sense for the first time. It is a place where, when we descend into it, we begin to question everything we have ever learned, seen, heard, and "known." It is a place where, quite suddenly, it can seem that all the people around us are talking in code. It is a place where most become lost and frightened and begin to believe there is not a single soul or a tangible idea they can trust. In this place, every word spoken has multiple meanings. In this place, every story becomes the same cyclical set of events repeating over and over again. In this place, there is so much information to process that we often find ourselves overcome and forget how we arrived at a point 10 minutes after we have found it. In this reality, consciousness or "entities" or "gods" can seemingly inhabit the people around us and begin to converse. Every experience, from the most inconsequential daily routine to the most intense interaction becomes a battle for spiritual life or death. We can begin to feel that we are affecting our realities with mere thoughts and words. And we are. People who experience this place often fall victim to paranoia, terror, and obscurity and thus begin to lose their grip on the commonly inhabited "reality." But this is not the only outcome. It is survivable. Many simply do not know that others are inhabiting this place with them. It is a misunderstood place and a misrepresented phenomenon. But it is real. It is the void. This thread will examine it.
Quoting: Kai (VALIS)

Nicely put.
calidruid

User ID: 41238644
United States
09/05/2013 02:35 PM
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Re: Surviving the Void
Breakthrough at 3am this morning. Kai..your thread and the collaboration with others is helping my evolution. Thank you ALL!

I will be lurking in the backround should you need me....lol!

PEACE!
"Big waves are nature's way of flipping out" - Corky Carroll, surfer dude

“This is a fierce bad rabbit; look at her savage whiskers, and her claws and her turned-up tail.” ~Beatrix Potter
Kai (VALIS) (OP)

User ID: 25570375
United States
09/05/2013 02:46 PM
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Re: Surviving the Void
There is a place the mind can take us which has been experienced by many but often mislabeled as a "delusional state." It seems to have been experienced by many philosophical thinkers, "prophets," religious and spiritual leaders, and notably by many who claim to have experienced an "awakening." It is a place where every idea, dormant in the mind or otherwise, can be linked back to a central point. It is a place where things we have seen every day become mysterious and other things seem to make sense for the first time. It is a place where, when we descend into it, we begin to question everything we have ever learned, seen, heard, and "known." It is a place where, quite suddenly, it can seem that all the people around us are talking in code. It is a place where most become lost and frightened and begin to believe there is not a single soul or a tangible idea they can trust. In this place, every word spoken has multiple meanings. In this place, every story becomes the same cyclical set of events repeating over and over again. In this place, there is so much information to process that we often find ourselves overcome and forget how we arrived at a point 10 minutes after we have found it. In this reality, consciousness or "entities" or "gods" can seemingly inhabit the people around us and begin to converse. Every experience, from the most inconsequential daily routine to the most intense interaction becomes a battle for spiritual life or death. We can begin to feel that we are affecting our realities with mere thoughts and words. And we are. People who experience this place often fall victim to paranoia, terror, and obscurity and thus begin to lose their grip on the commonly inhabited "reality." But this is not the only outcome. It is survivable. Many simply do not know that others are inhabiting this place with them. It is a misunderstood place and a misrepresented phenomenon. But it is real. It is the void. This thread will examine it.
Quoting: Kai (VALIS)

Nicely put.
Quoting: Jack Nobody

Much appreciated. It is almost impossible to put such an expansive experience into words. It is like conversing with the universe. It subjects one to itself and one can only attempt to respond.
- The Spider Kid
Kai (VALIS) (OP)

User ID: 25570375
United States
09/05/2013 02:47 PM
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Re: Surviving the Void
Breakthrough at 3am this morning. Kai..your thread and the collaboration with others is helping my evolution. Thank you ALL!

I will be lurking in the backround should you need me....lol!

PEACE!
Quoting: calidruid

I am glad it serves some purpose.

"Don't stop swimming."
- The Spider Kid
UFTE
User ID: 46650450
United States
09/10/2013 09:35 PM
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