Surviving the Void | |
orpheuskingstone User ID: 42108372 United States 08/31/2013 12:59 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
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Kai (VALIS) (OP) User ID: 25570375 United States 08/31/2013 01:10 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | kai, could you resolve an isse i am having.. Quoting: orpheuskingstone what is the metaphor for this.. Looks (to me) like a representation of dimensional flux. Something which appears to be "3 dimensional" but which is in a constant state of change. It possibly incorporates 4D (time) as it slides and then goes higher when it morphs into an unintelligible form and then returns to "3D" and starts again. - The Spider Kid |
orpheuskingstone User ID: 42108372 United States 08/31/2013 01:12 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | kai, could you resolve an isse i am having.. Quoting: orpheuskingstone what is the metaphor for this.. Looks (to me) like a representation of dimensional flux. Something which appears to be "3 dimensional" but which is in a constant state of change. It possibly incorporates 4D (time) as it slides and then goes higher when it morphs into an unintelligible form and then returns to "3D" and starts again. if another dimension is added by simply drawing another angle 90 degrees from every other, why is this a 4d object? my head hurts over this one, and i thought i would at least TRY to stay on topic. only the song of silence soothes every soul. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 29203778 Italy 08/31/2013 01:14 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | >>I am here and able to perceive other things.<< Descartes might have once said something similar. >>in a way which will fulfill all obligations to them, then I cannot go wrong.<< hmmm.. is this possible? and how can you know all those obligations? and are we truley obligated? once again sorry, so many questions.. not playing with you though it is fascinating subject. but right here it gets very complicated. it may have been Kant that dissected Descates line of inquiry but its all running together for me at the moment. Thanks Kai LOL |
Kai (VALIS) (OP) User ID: 25570375 United States 08/31/2013 01:15 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | kai, could you resolve an isse i am having.. Quoting: orpheuskingstone what is the metaphor for this.. Looks (to me) like a representation of dimensional flux. Something which appears to be "3 dimensional" but which is in a constant state of change. It possibly incorporates 4D (time) as it slides and then goes higher when it morphs into an unintelligible form and then returns to "3D" and starts again. if another dimension is added by simply drawing another angle 90 degrees from every other, why is this a 4d object? my head hurts over this one, and i thought i would at least TRY to stay on topic. The timing and movement represents the 4th dimension (4D being time). If we were looking at a solid (non-evolving) object, I'd say it was just 3D. The fact that it is morphing (to me) represents 4D space. - The Spider Kid |
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Triscuit User ID: 7007541 United States 08/31/2013 01:23 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | UHH.... Can we get back to talking about the void? Quoting: Triscuit 7007541 Surely my question on how to identify with the void and ascertain recognition is a more worthwhile direction of focus than whatever silly game y'all playin' Yo. Respect. That's a hard question. But I will do my best: Identification within and of the void is very difficult. It is a thing which is essentially formless. It is the convergence of all possible realities which culminates in an ultimate uncertainty. However, if I had to quantify I'd say this... When you are basically unsure that anything you have ever experienced was REAL (in the traditional sense) you have entered the void. When everything you experience (every conversation you have, everything you see, everything you hear) seems to possibly mean multiple things and possibly be from multiple places...you are there. Do you notice a "popping" over to the other-side, or an abrupt realization that you are there? Or is it a more gradual slipping into the state as the multidimensionality seeps through? Thanks for your input and Perspective :D En Lakesh |
Kai (VALIS) (OP) User ID: 25570375 United States 08/31/2013 01:27 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | >>I am here and able to perceive other things.<< Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29203778 Descartes might have once said something similar. >>in a way which will fulfill all obligations to them, then I cannot go wrong.<< hmmm.. is this possible? and how can you know all those obligations? and are we truley obligated? once again sorry, so many questions.. not playing with you though it is fascinating subject. but right here it gets very complicated. it may have been Kant that dissected Descates line of inquiry but its all running together for me at the moment. Thanks Kai LOL We cannot really know all obligations. But we can attempt to. So long as we make the effort, I believe we are successful. I always try to keep this in mind: "If, by thinking, I am creating the possibility that said thought will lead to the creation of a thing which can attain free will, then I have a responsibility to allow that thing its freedom. Thus I attempt not to erase anything which I have created." And our "obligations" are the individual's to discern. It is my belief that I have an obligation. But I do not enforce that on others. Excellent questions, my friend. - The Spider Kid |
andreidita User ID: 44797843 Romania 08/31/2013 01:27 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I see. Quoting: Kai (VALIS) The problem I find in that kind of thinking is that there ARE things we can know. For instance...I know I exist. I do not necessarily know in what capacity I exist...but I know that I am here and able to perceive other things. What you are describing is the hardest part of dealing with the void. My solution has always been to think this way: Rather than "I know nothing for certain." I think that "I know EVERYTHING is for certain." I can assume that ALL possibilities exist simultaneously and that every possible answer is the right one. I.e. Am I talking to another person or am I talking to a projection of myself? Or is it an entity inhabiting the person I am talking to? If I assume that it is possibly ALL of these answers and act in a way which will fulfill all obligations to them, then I cannot go wrong. or in short the shift from Either Or linear paradigm to the AND AND quantum paradigm :) |
Kai (VALIS) (OP) User ID: 25570375 United States 08/31/2013 01:29 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | UHH.... Can we get back to talking about the void? Quoting: Triscuit 7007541 Surely my question on how to identify with the void and ascertain recognition is a more worthwhile direction of focus than whatever silly game y'all playin' Yo. Respect. That's a hard question. But I will do my best: Identification within and of the void is very difficult. It is a thing which is essentially formless. It is the convergence of all possible realities which culminates in an ultimate uncertainty. However, if I had to quantify I'd say this... When you are basically unsure that anything you have ever experienced was REAL (in the traditional sense) you have entered the void. When everything you experience (every conversation you have, everything you see, everything you hear) seems to possibly mean multiple things and possibly be from multiple places...you are there. Do you notice a "popping" over to the other-side, or an abrupt realization that you are there? Or is it a more gradual slipping into the state as the multidimensionality seeps through? Thanks for your input and Perspective :D En Lakesh The first time I went, it was a gradual shift. More and more things began to align and become obvious as the days went on. But since then I have noticed "popping" between the sides. There are times when I feel totally "out" and then I will suddenly get a rush of the void all at once. - The Spider Kid |
andreidita User ID: 44797843 Romania 08/31/2013 01:31 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | >>I am here and able to perceive other things.<< Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29203778 Descartes might have once said something similar. >>in a way which will fulfill all obligations to them, then I cannot go wrong.<< hmmm.. is this possible? and how can you know all those obligations? and are we truley obligated? once again sorry, so many questions.. not playing with you though it is fascinating subject. but right here it gets very complicated. it may have been Kant that dissected Descates line of inquiry but its all running together for me at the moment. Thanks Kai LOL there is a very good book on philosophy of language which explains language in normative fashion based on commitment and entitlement by a modern american kant :) [link to www.amazon.com] |
andreidita User ID: 44797843 Romania 08/31/2013 01:38 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | hmmm.. is this possible? and how can you know all those obligations? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29203778 and are we truley obligated? once again sorry, so many questions.. not playing with you though it is fascinating subject. but right here it gets very complicated. it may have been Kant that dissected Descates line of inquiry but its all running together for me at the moment. Thanks Kai LOL the problem of knowing obligation presuppose that the source of the obligation is external (i.e. state) in the realm of the void/free will obligations are a matter of undertaking them, of creating them out of your own free will |
Kai (VALIS) (OP) User ID: 25570375 United States 08/31/2013 01:39 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | hmmm.. is this possible? and how can you know all those obligations? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29203778 and are we truley obligated? once again sorry, so many questions.. not playing with you though it is fascinating subject. but right here it gets very complicated. it may have been Kant that dissected Descates line of inquiry but its all running together for me at the moment. Thanks Kai LOL the problem of knowing obligation presuppose that the source of the obligation is external (i.e. state) in the realm of the void/free will obligations are a matter of undertaking them, of creating them out of your own free will Bingo. Well said, my friend. - The Spider Kid |
andreidita User ID: 44797843 Romania 08/31/2013 01:42 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | hmmm.. is this possible? and how can you know all those obligations? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29203778 and are we truley obligated? once again sorry, so many questions.. not playing with you though it is fascinating subject. but right here it gets very complicated. it may have been Kant that dissected Descates line of inquiry but its all running together for me at the moment. Thanks Kai LOL the problem of knowing obligation presuppose that the source of the obligation is external (i.e. state) in the realm of the void/free will obligations are a matter of undertaking them, of creating them out of your own free will Bingo. Well said, my friend. :) so it's basically more of a problem of courage in processing and undertaking on the fly many, than a problem of knowledge |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 29203778 Italy 08/31/2013 01:46 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | >>"If, by thinking, I am creating the possibility that said thought will lead to the creation of a thing which can attain free will, then I have a responsibility to allow that thing its freedom. Thus I attempt not to erase anything which I have created."<< had to read that a few times. Guard! arrest that thought! I do this a lot with the ones that may not have a pleasant outcome. in fact it is my stratagy. are you saying we shouldnt do this? >>And our "obligations" are the individual's to discern. It is my belief that I have an obligation. But I do not enforce that on others. << what type of obligation and why? if you dont "mind".. hi andreidita, that was helpful. I like short! and simple and if it wernt for the consensus reality we are all seemingly a part of here then would probably keep it that way. (simple) however there are huge influences that seem to want otherwise (TPTB) |
andreidita User ID: 44797843 Romania 08/31/2013 01:53 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | hi andreidita, that was helpful. I like short! and simple and if it wernt for the consensus reality we are all seemingly a part of here then would probably keep it that way. (simple) however there are huge influences that seem to want otherwise (TPTB) Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29203778 it is nice to meet one which has grip of the abstract ideas entertained by the likes of descartes and kant, btw :) |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 29203778 Italy 08/31/2013 02:15 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | >>the problem of knowing obligation presuppose that the source of the obligation is external (i.e. state) in the realm of the void/free will obligations are a matter of undertaking them, of creating them out of your own free will<< wow! that is so rich. >>so it's basically more of a problem of courage in processing and undertaking on the fly many, than a problem of knowledge<< and so right now for me. and the book you refer too. I want to read so much but decided to start a self study in Law which is easily the most complicated subject ever but I am quite surprised by what Im learning from it. Ive been dropping links here and there on some of the stuff because it is so incredible. it was very frustrating for the first year or two and quite a dreadful study but I feel the hard part is over and now a lot of it is clicking. at one point I had to force myself to continue because I felt I was wasting precious time on it and taking away from my study in spiritualality. shortly after that I started to discover that it IS spiritual. sounds crazy but it is. there is so much I could say about this but its getting late here so maybe another time. |
andreidita User ID: 44797843 Romania 08/31/2013 02:29 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | >>the problem of knowing obligation presuppose that the source of the obligation is external (i.e. state) Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29203778 in the realm of the void/free will obligations are a matter of undertaking them, of creating them out of your own free will<< wow! that is so rich. >>so it's basically more of a problem of courage in processing and undertaking on the fly many, than a problem of knowledge<< and so right now for me. and the book you refer too. I want to read so much but decided to start a self study in Law which is easily the most complicated subject ever but I am quite surprised by what Im learning from it. Ive been dropping links here and there on some of the stuff because it is so incredible. it was very frustrating for the first year or two and quite a dreadful study but I feel the hard part is over and now a lot of it is clicking. at one point I had to force myself to continue because I felt I was wasting precious time on it and taking away from my study in spiritualality. shortly after that I started to discover that it IS spiritual. sounds crazy but it is. there is so much I could say about this but its getting late here so maybe another time. development of the higher abstract mind and of true understanding of how reality works is the true spirituality of today. from 12 to 24 i was full time into science (from chemistry to economics), philosophy and logics. and between 24 and 30 added also esoteric knowledge. at 30 the mind was ready to make the jump into the Void. |
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Anonymous Coward User ID: 6331917 United States 09/05/2013 02:00 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | There is a place the mind can take us which has been experienced by many but often mislabeled as a "delusional state." It seems to have been experienced by many philosophical thinkers, "prophets," religious and spiritual leaders, and notably by many who claim to have experienced an "awakening." It is a place where every idea, dormant in the mind or otherwise, can be linked back to a central point. It is a place where things we have seen every day become mysterious and other things seem to make sense for the first time. It is a place where, when we descend into it, we begin to question everything we have ever learned, seen, heard, and "known." It is a place where, quite suddenly, it can seem that all the people around us are talking in code. It is a place where most become lost and frightened and begin to believe there is not a single soul or a tangible idea they can trust. In this place, every word spoken has multiple meanings. In this place, every story becomes the same cyclical set of events repeating over and over again. In this place, there is so much information to process that we often find ourselves overcome and forget how we arrived at a point 10 minutes after we have found it. In this reality, consciousness or "entities" or "gods" can seemingly inhabit the people around us and begin to converse. Every experience, from the most inconsequential daily routine to the most intense interaction becomes a battle for spiritual life or death. We can begin to feel that we are affecting our realities with mere thoughts and words. And we are. People who experience this place often fall victim to paranoia, terror, and obscurity and thus begin to lose their grip on the commonly inhabited "reality." But this is not the only outcome. It is survivable. Many simply do not know that others are inhabiting this place with them. It is a misunderstood place and a misrepresented phenomenon. But it is real. It is the void. This thread will examine it. Quoting: Kai (VALIS) Nicely put. |
calidruid User ID: 41238644 United States 09/05/2013 02:35 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Breakthrough at 3am this morning. Kai..your thread and the collaboration with others is helping my evolution. Thank you ALL! I will be lurking in the backround should you need me....lol! PEACE! "Big waves are nature's way of flipping out" - Corky Carroll, surfer dude “This is a fierce bad rabbit; look at her savage whiskers, and her claws and her turned-up tail.” ~Beatrix Potter |
Kai (VALIS) (OP) User ID: 25570375 United States 09/05/2013 02:46 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | There is a place the mind can take us which has been experienced by many but often mislabeled as a "delusional state." It seems to have been experienced by many philosophical thinkers, "prophets," religious and spiritual leaders, and notably by many who claim to have experienced an "awakening." It is a place where every idea, dormant in the mind or otherwise, can be linked back to a central point. It is a place where things we have seen every day become mysterious and other things seem to make sense for the first time. It is a place where, when we descend into it, we begin to question everything we have ever learned, seen, heard, and "known." It is a place where, quite suddenly, it can seem that all the people around us are talking in code. It is a place where most become lost and frightened and begin to believe there is not a single soul or a tangible idea they can trust. In this place, every word spoken has multiple meanings. In this place, every story becomes the same cyclical set of events repeating over and over again. In this place, there is so much information to process that we often find ourselves overcome and forget how we arrived at a point 10 minutes after we have found it. In this reality, consciousness or "entities" or "gods" can seemingly inhabit the people around us and begin to converse. Every experience, from the most inconsequential daily routine to the most intense interaction becomes a battle for spiritual life or death. We can begin to feel that we are affecting our realities with mere thoughts and words. And we are. People who experience this place often fall victim to paranoia, terror, and obscurity and thus begin to lose their grip on the commonly inhabited "reality." But this is not the only outcome. It is survivable. Many simply do not know that others are inhabiting this place with them. It is a misunderstood place and a misrepresented phenomenon. But it is real. It is the void. This thread will examine it. Quoting: Kai (VALIS) Nicely put. Much appreciated. It is almost impossible to put such an expansive experience into words. It is like conversing with the universe. It subjects one to itself and one can only attempt to respond. - The Spider Kid |
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