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Tragic news about a longtime Liberty Forum member....
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 625
5/12/2006 3:34 PM
Report abusive post | Tragic news about a longtime Liberty Forum member....
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[link to www.libertyforum.org]
Earth_AD wrote:
Friends,
I am deeply saddened to report that LF poster PersistentVision, real name Michael Kreca, was shot and killed by a San Diego police officer on February 11th of this year. Another LF poster who wishes to remain anonymous did a google for his name, wondering where he was these days, and found the original set of articles [link to www.signonsandiego.com] detailing the incident. Apparently Michael was out walking when two cops came up to him, claiming they had heard gunshots. It was later determined that Michael had a pistol in his belt, which was empty, with a full clip in his jacket.
While the details of the incident are not perfectly clear, it was apparent that he allowed a search of his person, but then balked at being handcuffed when the officers found his handgun. The police claime that he "struggled" with the officers and reached for his gun, and one of them shot him. Both the offending officer and the City of San Diego have been absolved by the DA's office, [link to www.officer.com] citing California law.
In memory of our friend and compatriot, please feel free to pay homage to him on this thread. I personally was not as close to him as some members of the forum, but he and I did exchange PMs on a number of occasions. I found him to be as bright an individual as you'd find, full of fire and determination to have his ideas heard. He also had the tendency to be quite humorous in his "flaming" of certain neo-cons and others whom he felt were not friends of liberty. The news of his death is a tremendous tragedy. He will be missed. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 625 (OP)
5/12/2006 3:40 PM | | Re: Tragic news about a longtime Liberty Forum member.... | Quote |
He had a physical encounter with a Rumsfeld aide before he was shot and killed by the cops !!!
Aeryn_Sun wrote:
I don't think I'm betraying a confidence by conveying the info that his relatives had been physically assaulted by SD cops, and in the first week of February - he was DC, had an encounter with an aide of Rumsfeld's and an experience with the DC cops.
[link to www.libertyforum.org]
The physical incident with an aide of Rumsfeld's at an Adams Morgan dance club involved that aide assaulting Michael's dance partner - Julie.
[link to www.libertyforum.org] |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 625 (OP)
5/12/2006 3:41 PM | | Re: Tragic news about a longtime Liberty Forum member.... | Quote |
[link to www.libertyforum.org]
Aeryn_Sun wrote:
I don't think I'm breaking a confidence, so I'm going to post the pm here (with my name XXX'd out) --
Quote:
-----
Hello XXX:
How have you been? I was in your neck of the woods last week, on business with my firm.
After being in DC and checking out the social scene, I can see why so many cool women get so pissed off at guys there--so many of them are just insufferable, belligerent arrogant assholes. I was bored after a long day of meetings and was looking for some upbeat nightlife, so I went to the 18th St. Lounge. I managed to get in, what with my California DL and all black suit, shirt and fedora hat; it seems that DCers think anyone from San Diego or LA is in the entertainment business, so whatever. I must say, 18th is a cool place with lots of fine ladies of all ages who are just dying to have a manask them to dance. Which I love to do unlike most guys, these days.
Well anyway, I was tired of the cheesy techno-shit the band was playing and peeled off a Grant to have them play the merengue. I was dancing with a really sweet gal who knew how to do the merengue too.
That's when the trouble started. I was squiring my lady (her name was Julie, and she was really sweet and friendly) all over the floor, and this pretty boy asshole comes up to her and grabs her by the arm and yanks her away from me. He said out loud.," Julie, why are you hanging out with this ugly ass short surf bum?" I told him to back off and he hissed at me. "Do you know who I am, you stupid motherfucker. I am a Columbia man and a senior aide to Secretary Rumsfeld, you piece of shit. Who the fuck are you?"
I replied, "So what, who cares?" Then he punched me and knocked me down.
Then, XXX, I did something really stupid. He'd grabbed Julie and slapped her and knocked her down, calling her a slut and a cunt, In reaction, I foolishly retaliated by slashing his cheek with a switchblade I'd had with me since I was 15. The cops showed up. I got arrested and tossed into a squad car.
The cop was cool though, a black man, Sgt. Williams. He uncuffed me and just said matter of factly, "Tell me what happened, man." So I told him. He said, "Man dude, you are one crazy motherfucker, you just can't do that shit here, but between you and me, I'm glad you took care of business. Don't worry about that asshole, I'll take care of it. What you need to to is get that gal Julie and chill her out." Sgt. Williams took Julie and me back to my hotel room where we had a nice supper and she chilled me out. Sgt. Williams did have to confiscate my blade though. Oh well, small loss.
What a load. Just tired and glad to be home.
Mike
----
See ... that's what's wierd - the Rumsfeld aide knew Julie.
His niece, who he brought over from Serbia, had been beaten and raped by a cop in SD. The city settled out of court for a sizable sum of money. One cop had stated he would testify for the niece as long as the story was kept out of the press - a rookie. He was fired by the Department, along with the two senior cops involved in the incident. Mike never told me their names.
In the article I thought it was wierd that the cops seized boxes of "evidence" from his home ... Mike had translated Tesla's autobiography a year or so ago - a very small document - he was a real Tesla hound. I'm wondering if what they seized were more of Tesla's writings in Serbian that Mike had translated. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 625 (OP)
5/12/2006 3:43 PM | | Re: Tragic news about a longtime Liberty Forum member.... | Quote |
[link to www.libertyforum.org]
Aeryn_Sun wrote:
Mike's dad had been a POW in Korea, and when he saw the Abu Ghraib pictures, he packaged his campaign ribbons and medals up and sent them to Bush, and told him to shove them up his ass! |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 92511
5/12/2006 3:46 PM | | Re: Tragic news about a longtime Liberty Forum member.... | Quote |
Shit, that is awful. This guy got taken out... |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 625 (OP)
5/12/2006 4:04 PM | | Re: Tragic news about a longtime Liberty Forum member.... | Quote |
He wrote articles on the internet:
Keep and Bear Arms - Gun Owners Home Page - 2nd Amendment Supporters
THE MILITIA QUESTION, RESOLVED
SECOND AMENDMENT 101
by Michael Kreca
Michael E. Kreca is a staff writer for Ether Zone. Michael E. Kreca lives in San Diego and has been a financial reporter for Business
Week, Knight-Ridder and the Financial Times of London. He can be reached at mkreca@connectnet.com
Published in the May 26, 2000 issue of Ether Zone. Copyright © 2000 Ether Zone
Reposting permitted with this message intact.
[link to www.keepandbeararms.com]
"According to Officer Edwards, Mr. Kreca replied saying, 'No, you're not going to do that,"' Dumanis wrote. "According to Officer Fleming, he said, 'Let me go; I want to leave,' and began struggling with the officers."
[link to www.officer.com] |
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Rear View (nli)
User ID: 61990
5/12/2006 4:46 PM | | Re: Tragic news about a longtime Liberty Forum member.... | Quote |
Wow...Bump for others! |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 92604
5/12/2006 4:59 PM | | Re: Tragic news about a longtime Liberty Forum member.... | Quote |
He was targeted. Still think the NSA and the Bush administration is harmless? |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 75040
5/12/2006 5:03 PM | | Re: Tragic news about a longtime Liberty Forum member.... | Quote |
Thank you Micheal for stepping up to the plate, and standing for your beliefs.
Love n Light
 |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 74271
5/12/2006 5:06 PM | | Re: Tragic news about a longtime Liberty Forum member.... | Quote |
This man seems to have had a lot of negative interaction with those in power, a Rumsfeld aid, the police....
Why was he carrying a gun? If he was doing it for protection, why not have it loaded? If he was going to let himself be searched, why not hand the gun over?
Was the gun legal, is that why he balked at being handcuffed at all?
I am not saying he should have been shot, and frankly I think the police get away with murder in MOST of the cases they kill someone. (The rest being honest self defense...It happens.)
But this man sounds like he went around looking for trouble. No surprise it found him. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 68854
5/12/2006 5:09 PM | | Re: Tragic news about a longtime Liberty Forum member.... | Quote |
You NEVER touch a gun when a policeman is searching you. But then, they shot him anyway. Maybe he should have reached for it. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 625 (OP)
5/12/2006 5:25 PM | | Re: Tragic news about a longtime Liberty Forum member.... | Quote |
The gun could had been illegally planted by the Police themselves
They could had cooked up the story about him having a gun
They police killed him |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 625 (OP)
5/12/2006 5:26 PM | |
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 625 (OP)
5/12/2006 5:35 PM | | Re: Tragic news about a longtime Liberty Forum member.... | Quote |
One of his articles (that was once posted on Ether Zone)
===
[link to www.keepandbeararms.com]
THE MILITIA QUESTION, RESOLVED
SECOND AMENDMENT 101
by Michael Kreca
"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to permit the conquered Eastern peoples to have arms. History teaches that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doing so. Indeed I would go so far as to say that the underdog is a sine qua non for the overthrow of any sovereignty. So let's not have any native militia or police. German troops alone will bear the sole responsibility for the maintenance of law and order." ~~ Adolf Hitler, April 11, 1942, in “Hitler's Table-Talk at the Fuehrer's Headquarters 1941-1942”, Dr. Henry Picker, ed. (Athenaeum Verlag, Bonn, 1951)
Twenty-seven words first published in 1790 are now the source of the bitterest controversy the USA has seen since the 1960s if not since the War Between the States a century before that. They are central to an issue that splits left and right, male and female, white and nonwhite, North and South, East and West, wealthy and not-so wealthy.
They are:
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
Let’s get this straight right away. First of all, the inalienable right of individuals to keep and bear arms as a check on a tyrannical government predates our Declaration of Independence and Constitution. This, among other things, was clearly and eloquently
expressed in Sir William Blackstone's 1768 "Commentaries On The Laws of England.” Hence, the Founders were operating within a long historical tradition based upon English common law.
Secondly, the term “well-regulated” meant something quite different two centuries ago. It is not today’s definition of “controlled,” “limited,” or “restricted” but was instead defined as “having proper kit and provisions” or in the case of objects or machinery,
“properly maintained and kept in good repair.” The next is the Constitutional definition of the “militia,” and this what requires detailed explanation. The militia issue was extensively debated during the 1787-89 Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia and today has sadly been ignored by both sides in this issue.
Founder George Mason explicitly wished to have it clearly spelled out that the militia was “of the whole people," in effect, a “general militia” that was affirmed in the Second Amendment and the 1792 Militia Act. Mason and his supporters feared the development of "special militias"—ones much like the Puritan "Roundheads" led by Oliver Cromwell and their opponents, the “Cavaliers,” in the English Civil War of 1642-57. Special militias are nothing more than state-sanctioned paramilitary groups--witness the German Nazi SA and its successor the SS as well as the Italian Fascist "Blackshirts." In those cases, Nazi/Fascist Party membership was strictly required to join them as well as to legally own a firearm of any kind in either of those countries at the time.
These two groups were little different than standing armies. The difference is that they were created and used by the German and Italian governments to bypass any laws against using the military domestically against the people (or in the absence of such laws, to forestall the military’s unwillingness to do so)—in order to crush dissent and terrorize opponents. (Sound familiar?) Cromwell used his Roundheads to do much the same thing, even having King Charles I beheaded after a bogus trial, later closing Parliament and then invading Ireland with plans to wipe out the Catholic population, killing those of his comrades and anyone else who refused to comply.
Distressingly, we now have a lot of special militias in the USA—the Secret Service, FBI, BATF, DEA, IRS, the National Guard and today’s "near federalized" status of most state and local police departments--to name but a few. And they are all unconstitutional, if the plain meaning of the 2nd Amendment and the 1792 Militia Act is correct. George Mason's fears about them were well placed and have come tragically true. All these alphabet-soup special militias can do and have done (other than freely lapping up taxpayer money in ever-increasing amounts) is be responsible for numerous cruel and meaningless tragedies. These range from spying on, harassing and ruining the lives of anyone deemed an “enemy of the state,” to brutally breaking strikes, violently disrupting demonstrations and killing innocent people in places ranging from Kent State to Ruby Ridge and Waco.
Even the courts are beginning to revive this long forgotten but crucial “general vs. special” militia distinction. The 1990 Supreme Court case Perpich vs. Department of Defense is a case in point. Then Minnesota Gov. Rudy Perpich claimed the DoD violated the Constitution when it ordered the Minnesota National Guard (which he claimed was the 'state militia') to duty outside the state without his consent or that of the state legislature.
The Supreme Court ruled against Perpich. It held the National Guard is an integral component of the US Army Reserve system (it has been since 1916). It further supported its ruling by specifying the difference between the “special militia” (in this case the Minnesota Guard) instead of the “general militia” (citizens with privately procured and owned arms) as expressed in the 2nd Amendment. Also in 1990 the Court in another case affirmed the definition of “the people” expressed in the Bill of Rights as meaning individual persons, not a group.
So the statist left has its “militia” and the rest of us have ours. No wonder so many of them can’t free themselves from the false but mesmerizing aura of the “Militia=National Guard” equation. The statist left doesn’t want to because it’s interested not in the right of individuals to protect their lives and liberty against a tyrannical federal government, but in giving that tyrannical federal government a blank check, figuratively and literally, to indulge in state-sponsored terror under the tautological trinity of “crime prevention," "anti-terrorism" and "national security.” And Clinton Defense Secretary William Cohen has all but told us to “get used to the idea.”
So there it is. General militia versus special militia.
Which are you?
Think about that question the next time you are cajoled by otherwise-idle Million Mom March mavens to support “sensible gun laws” or are exhorted by the denizens of the pseudo-patriotic “law-and-order” crowd to “back the badge.”
Michael E. Kreca is a staff writer for Ether Zone. Michael E. Kreca lives in San Diego and has been a financial reporter for Business
Week, Knight-Ridder and the Financial Times of London. He can be reached at mkreca@connectnet.com
Published in the May 26, 2000 issue of Ether Zone. Copyright © 2000 Ether Zone
Reposting permitted with this message intact. |
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Neptune´s Daughter
User ID: 11465
5/12/2006 5:37 PM | | Re: Tragic news about a longtime Liberty Forum member.... | Quote |
Not to take away from this person, but reading the first story makes me think of the 911Wings guy who was killed not too long ago. He was part of a group questioning the "official lies" of 911.
Strange similarities. |
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Some1
User ID: 87932
5/12/2006 8:13 PM | | Re: Tragic news about a longtime Liberty Forum member.... | Quote |
>Was the gun legal, is that why he balked at being handcuffed at all?
NO, the gun was initally concealed, so DEFINITELY not legal.
I monitored the entire incident on a scanner. The Police had no choice, and they had no way to know the gun wasn't loaded.
Several of the shots fired that sparked the call for PD had hit a house. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 92634
5/12/2006 8:36 PM | | Re: Tragic news about a longtime Liberty Forum member.... | Quote |
Some1 you do realize that you have just become a very scary dude. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 625 (OP)
5/13/2006 4:52 AM | | Re: Tragic news about a longtime Liberty Forum member.... | Quote |
Some1
User ID: 87932:
Are you joking ?
You monitored the entire incident on scanner ?
Are you serious ? |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 80475
5/13/2006 5:07 AM | | Re: Tragic news about a longtime Liberty Forum member.... | Quote |
Some1, do you mean a scanner or a "scanner"?
This is some wild shit! |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 80475
5/13/2006 5:10 AM | | Re: Tragic news about a longtime Liberty Forum member.... | Quote |
Apparently Kreca was ex-Navy, I bet he was an officer. Lots of bad mojo going on around him. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 80475
5/13/2006 5:15 AM | | Re: Tragic news about a longtime Liberty Forum member.... | Quote |
His father was prisoner of war in Korea. I've noticed that POWs are surrounded by mojo happenings because they're subjected to extensive interogation over long periods of time, and of course they're fed "interogation food" in their captivity. It's something they can never leave behind. This is one thing that worries me about presidential candidate John McCain. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 92017
5/13/2006 6:22 AM | | Re: Tragic news about a longtime Liberty Forum member.... | Quote |
Yes that sucks for him/family.
I have a question though. How can someone slash another persons face with an illegal switchblade, be arrested to only get a ride to your motel room? |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 92562
5/13/2006 6:32 AM | | Re: Tragic news about a longtime Liberty Forum member.... | Quote |
"
>Was the gun legal, is that why he balked at being handcuffed at all?
NO, the gun was initally concealed, so DEFINITELY not legal.
I monitored the entire incident on a scanner. The Police had no choice, and they had no way to know the gun wasn't loaded.
Several of the shots fired that sparked the call for PD had hit a house."
interesting post, do you believe everything you hear? i drove by this crime scene as they were running yellow tape across it i was working near at the time, it was on the side of the street not even near the canyon almost up to flanders street. just by what i saw with my own two eyes i would say total bullshit story. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 185
5/13/2006 8:40 AM | | Re: Tragic news about a longtime Liberty Forum member.... | Quote |
Some1
User ID: 87932
5/12/2006 8:13 PM
====
You must be a spook. |
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The Roman
User ID: 631
5/13/2006 9:15 AM | | Re: Tragic news about a longtime Liberty Forum member.... | Quote |
Someone  |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76412
5/13/2006 12:00 PM | | Re: Tragic news about a longtime Liberty Forum member.... | Quote |
man that is tragic another truthseeker taken out
RIP bro
 |
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AC
User ID: 92931
5/13/2006 12:49 PM | | Re: Tragic news about a longtime Liberty Forum member.... | Quote |
 and  for Michael |
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Some1
User ID: 87932
5/13/2006 8:32 PM | | Re: Tragic news about a longtime Liberty Forum member.... | Quote |
>You monitored the entire incident on scanner ?
Yes, that is what I do for a living. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 93125
5/13/2006 9:29 PM | | Re: Tragic news about a longtime Liberty Forum member.... | Quote |
How sad people live in fear...
A Yeoman comes home from work to realize he has reaped nothing.
nothing
If singing gives others hope then we all shall sing till the end.
If singing makes you free like the sun and sea then I shall sing and roar like the abyss of the ocean.
The battle belongs to those who want liberate men. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 625 (OP)
5/14/2006 6:56 AM | | Re: Tragic news about a longtime Liberty Forum member.... | Quote |
Some1
User ID: 87932:
>Yes, that is what I do for a living.<
You're saying that you're a San Diego Police Officer ? |
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Some1
User ID: 87932
5/14/2006 2:00 PM | | Re: Tragic news about a longtime Liberty Forum member.... | Quote |
>You're saying that you're a San Diego Police Officer ?
NO, that's not at all what I said. |
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