What is Natural about Eating Meat? THE SLAUGHTRRRRR

OK, I'll bite.

Is it natural for another animals to be carnivores? Yes, absolutely. It is within their nature to hunt down animals and eat them.

Is it natural for other creatures to eat seafood organisms by a similar method? Yes, absolutely. Lots and lots of them do including the whale and dolphin.

Why is that not natural? Does it offend your sensibilities? So what? So Brother Wolf should stop eating Brother Mouse? So Brother Blue Whale should stop eating Brother Krill?

Come on.

Do you think it's enlightenment that should inhibit us from eating meat? If so, then possibly we all could dramatically alter humanities diet, but who are you to insist they should all corporately do so? By what authority are you the arbiter of making that decision?

I completely get it. Let's play that out.

How would you enforce a diet of only plants. I'm not saying it's impossible or even that such a thing wouldn't be noble. I'm saying realistically how are you going to make sure that people only eat plants.

Would you then insist that all animals and sea creatures only consume plants as well? Should the venus flytrap or a pitcher plant be killed as a species since it relies upon the decaying carcasses of insects?

What about fungi? Those kinds of plant life rely upon decay of animals. What about insects?

Let's say you're a hard core vegan. I applaud you for that. Do you grow all of your own plants for food? If there was any issue in getting all of those organic plants to your grocery, could you survive? Explain to me how you plan to survive purely on a vegan diet if there was a collapse.

As a prepper of many decades, I would be extremely interested how you plan to acquire enough nutrition either from foraging for wild edibles that are plants or cultivated plants with agriculture, and purely surviving based upon that.

If not, then you are relying upon others to grow and transport your plant items, many of which are extremely expensive. I would bet that those folks growing them actually eat a varied diet in order to raise those food items. You do realize that is going on, right?

Don't tell me that a vegan lifestyle is more natural, because practically nothing that humanity does is natural. As a species we alter our niche such that we can exist in it. I could talk for hours about how your personal niche has been unnaturally modified so that you can survive.

You don't live a natural lifestyle. If anything, I would bet that my lifestyle as an omnivore is far more natural than yours.

Is your lifestyle more ethical or philosophically correct? That's a totally different topic. Unless you're willing to begin a socialist utopia in which there is no money and no ownership and everyone is equal and we all live precisely the same, then don't get me started by insisting that being an omnivore is less natural.

No. You should simply stop killing them. The fact you are debating mechanisms of slaughter with me is chilling. I'd like to know your purpose as well; I doubt killing innocent beings for food is what you were meant to do. I am sure there is much more to you than that.

You define yourself as such because you believe it empowers you. Your worldview is hinged upon you taking and others losing. What if you had all that you needed, and didn't need to consume anyone or fight others to get what you needed? What if you realized one day that you already had all that you needed?

Evolve.

Why do you insist that killing/consuming flesh is evil?

Then, given you empathize with some animals, you are closer to a scavenger than a killer. That's good. There will be plenty of dead bodies around stinking up the place that will need to be disposed of when DOOM finally hits! I am glad a cleanup crew will exist for them.

When you get right down to it, is there anything more to any living creature than reproduction and securing food?

What is my purpose? World peace? The world wouldn't need peace if humans hadn't insisted on moving forward technologically. You don't see lions and zebras stocking up on ICBMs for the next great rivalry.

Humans enjoy fancying themselves "higher creatures" with a "higher purpose." We occupy ourselves with meaningless pursuits that come as a result from moving away from our species' place in the ecosystem.

Consuming flesh is not necessarily evil. Killing an innocent animal for the purposes of consuming its flesh for food, when there is plenty of other food available, is evil, because that animal has a right to life, and is doing nothing to impede yours. If you can go down to the grocery store or farmer's market and pick up pounds of produce, you can eat for a week and thrive without touching animal flesh. If you have abundant food around you- grains, vegetables and fruits- and you feel the need to pick up a weapon and strike down an animal because you want to eat it, that is evil. What if I wanted to eat your child because I got bored eating vegetables, so I took an arrow and bow and shot it and butchered it and cooked it and relished serving it to my family? Whose child was the animal you killed?

Consuming flesh is not necessarily evil. Killing an innocent animal for the purposes of consuming its flesh for food, when there is plenty of other food available, is evil, because that animal has a right to life, and is doing nothing to impede yours. If you can go down to the grocery store or farmer's market and pick up pounds of produce, you can eat for a week and thrive without touching animal flesh. If you have abundant food around you- grains, vegetables and fruits- and you feel the need to pick up a weapon and strike down an animal because you want to eat it, that is evil. What if I wanted to eat your child because I got bored eating vegetables, so I took an arrow and bow and shot it and butchered it and cooked it and relished serving it to my family? Whose child was the animal you killed?

And here we reach the crux of the issue.

You feel that eating animals is unethical in a world of abundant non-animal food.

I feel that outsourcing my sustenance is a basic violation of my human-ness. I aim to grow/raise and harvest/slaughter all of my family's food.

This has nothing to do with empowering myself. I am simply expressing the reality of the world without a bunch of philosophical bullshit. Your utopian delusion will NEVER come to pass. Too many human beings oppose it and you will be left out in the cold. What if civilization falls and you are forced to fight for your survival? My guess is that you are too scrawny to hold a weapon since we are making baseless generalizations about each other. You need to grow a pair of balls.

You can secure food by growing a garden and canning your produce.

You are not a lion or zebra. You are descended from tree-dwelling fruit-eating apes.

If you are against elevating humans spiritually, why do you put yourself above animals and eat them?

Once more: what is your purpose? If all you can look forward to is killing an animal you raised from birth and collecting a check because someone wants to cook and eat it, that's pretty fucked up. What would you rather do?

Your empathy will kill you if any of these doomsday scenarios come to pass. It is the damned truth. General empathy for your family, friends, and loved ones is normal, but empathy for every living thing on the planet is irrational as universal harmony, even if achieved, is not certain to remain a constant. If perfection fails then your empathy will prevent you from taking the necessary actions to survive. You are psychologically handicapped while I am capable of living both in modern society and in these hypothetical doomsday post-societies. Universal peace will never happen in this lifetime.

Your empathy will kill you if any of these doomsday scenarios come to pass. It is the damned truth. General empathy for your family, friends, and loved ones is normal, but empathy for every living thing on the planet is irrational as universal harmony, even if achieved, is not certain to remain a constant. If perfection fails then your empathy will prevent you from taking the necessary actions to survive. You are psychologically handicapped while I am capable of living both in modern society and in these hypothetical doomsday post-societies. Universal peace will never happen in this lifetime.

It isn't utopia- I live it. I'm vegan and everyone in my family is vegan. Increasingly, all around me, I am watching person after person go vegetarian and then vegan, for different reasons: vast research evidence that meat consumption leads to innumerable heath problems and increasing mortality, for personal reasons, for environmental and moral reasons.. the list goes on. Point is, the world is waking up to the fact that meat consumption is inherently unsustainable, even growing free-range animals for meat. This isn't a delusion, it is reality, and it is making you uncomfortable because, as I stated, your entire self-definition is dependent upon you winning and others losing. Your choice of words and phrases "too scrawny to hold a weapon" and "grow a pair of balls" is pure reflection of the programming you've received that to be a "real man" means to take a life, to take from others, and to dominate them. That is untrue and the world will show you that.

Laws to protect animals, and to protect those who serve their best interests, are being passed daily. Increasing restrictions are being placed upon meat industry and those who profit from it. This is no accident. You can fight that, and keep eating meat like the animal you think you are, or you can evolve as a human being who is part of a planet trying its best to heal itself. It's your choice.

And here we reach the crux of the issue.

You feel that eating animals is unethical in a world of abundant non-animal food.

I feel that outsourcing my sustenance is a basic violation of my human-ness. I aim to grow/raise and harvest/slaughter all of my family's food.

Laws to protect animals, and to protect those who serve their best interests, are being passed daily. Increasing restrictions are being placed upon meat industry and those who profit from it. This is no accident. You can fight that, and keep eating meat like the animal you think you are, or you can evolve as a human being who is part of a planet trying its best to heal itself. It's your choice.

I don't sell any of my animals, alive or dead. If I've produced more than my family can use, I've grossly misused my resources.

While you vegans enjoy speaking of tree-dwelling apes, you ignore a wide swath of human evolution where we expanded our culinary options and became omnivorous.

Actually no. It is not the damned truth, it is your desperate defense of your lifestyle and your choices. I am far from psychologically handicapped- I am a non-sociopath, which apparently means little to people who kill and eat animals without thought. When in this thread did I advocate universal peace? Please don't place your projections upon me.

And NONE of you are capable of killing an animal.

We ignore it because in a world of plenty, where food choices abound, it's really not valid any longer. I do agree that we are omnivores; however, this endows us with the flexibility to consume a wide variety of food sources to meet our nutritional needs, much like our fellow omnivorous dogs and pigs. I eat vegan not because it is historically or perhaps even biologically optimal, although research is leaning in that direction, but because it is morally the correct choice as a conscious being on this planet.

Point is, the world is waking up to the fact that meat consumption is inherently unsustainable, even growing free-range animals for meat.

I can eat a squash. I feel damn good when I eat it too. Nature says. Eat that fking veg. Put it in your baby belly. Feels fresh ay?

I respond with yes. When it comes to meat. There isnt that same feeling. So i can only react to my own inner self. That just maybe, maybe i could do without.

If doomsday happens what makes you think that meat will be the only thing around and vegetation will cease? Please dont tell me you would raid a rotting corpse.

It is natural to eat plants moreso that natural to eat animals. This is flippin true for me. How do i know this? Because I jsut fking kno. There are far to many complications with eating animals. What are the complications with eating vegetables? I dont really see any? Grow them. the plant survives for the season to give you produce. Plant the seeds again next year. Simple?

What about the plants that keep on giving and you dont need to kill them...? Fruits????

So please tell me how its super NATURAL to eat meat???

Why do I get super smelly breath and farts when I eat meat??? because its nasty corpse shit.

Why does my breath smell neutral after eating plants? Ohhhhh i dunooooo.

Fuck your high horse all you want! Clearly neither of us can win this argument as it is a question of semantics. If meat is ever outlawed I will continue to eat it! How can anyone know if I kill rats for my protein? Or if I buy rabbits under the guise of being a breeder only to slaughter them for my food? You cannot arbitrate what anyone eats even though clearly you would want to! You may not have said so directly but it is apparent!

It isn't utopia- I live it. I'm vegan and everyone in my family is vegan. Increasingly, all around me, I am watching person after person go vegetarian and then vegan, for different reasons: vast research evidence that meat consumption leads to innumerable heath problems and increasing mortality, for personal reasons, for environmental and moral reasons.. the list goes on. Point is, the world is waking up to the fact that meat consumption is inherently unsustainable, even growing free-range animals for meat. This isn't a delusion, it is reality, and it is making you uncomfortable because, as I stated, your entire self-definition is dependent upon you winning and others losing. Your choice of words and phrases "too scrawny to hold a weapon" and "grow a pair of balls" is pure reflection of the programming you've received that to be a "real man" means to take a life, to take from others, and to dominate them. That is untrue and the world will show you that.

Laws to protect animals, and to protect those who serve their best interests, are being passed daily. Increasing restrictions are being placed upon meat industry and those who profit from it. This is no accident. You can fight that, and keep eating meat like the animal you think you are, or you can evolve as a human being who is part of a planet trying its best to heal itself. It's your choice.

I never said to make regulations on how people should eat. Everyone is different. Wired differently, on a different path, in a different stage of development. So this wont work for everyone.

I'm just making a very legitimate observation. I am a meat eater. I confess!!! But deep down if it wasn't served to me by the corporate groceries would I be able to kill and eat my own meat? Maybe, yes. But i would HATE every moment of it.

I felt bad for my fish that we left for 2 weeks with no food. (they survived but some of the babies were eaten, thats nature) I'm a different body/mind. I have lots of empathy. I was born this way. Some are born with more courage to be able to take a life. Not me. I'm not here to do that. I'm here for a different purpose. I know what i like and dont.

Canning your vegetable. Its very common. btw

You did not directly propagate universal peace but it is only in such a paradigm that the eating of meat could ever cease. It is only logical.

People consume too much meat. It's readily available at the grocer. You can go pick up a nice pack of thick cut steaks and throw it on the grill with little effort. You've not only eaten those steaks (probably from several different cows), but you've also consumed all the excess that is discarded to get the "USDA prime cuts."

You've consumed the travel of the animal from birth to feed-lot. From feed-lot to slaughter. From slaughter to distributor. From distributor to store. From store to table.

Let's not even mention the travel of all the workers at every various stage of the game, growing/processing/transporting the feed, etc.

And, when it's all said and done, you don't even eat the whole fucking steak. It sits in the fridge as leftovers you can forget exist until you clean it out.

You approach the problem by boycotting meat. I approach the problem by boycotting the food system.

Am I on a high horse? Again with the focus on winning.. Listen to yourself and your own language for a moment. Why are you obsessed with fighting? This "argument" as you call it, I would prefer to say it is a discussion, has absolutely nothing to do with semantics and everything to do with factual information about the validity of moral choices that can be made when consequences appear to be minimal. I don't want to arbitrate what anyone eats- I am debating with you to get you to question your own motives for killing animals. You seem to take each idea to its absolute most irrational conclusion, which amuses me but also makes me feel a bit more gentle toward you since you are clearly not capable of a rational discussion. Meat is unlikely to ever be outlawed, but you may be priced out of it as it gets rarer and more difficult to afford. Quite frankly, why would you want something that is unhealthy for you, and expensive to boot?

juss sayin...

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