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"Obama Should Raise The Debt Ceiling Himself"

 
DessertSocks
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10/07/2013 05:22 PM

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"Obama Should Raise The Debt Ceiling Himself"
If the Republicans seriously want to cause the U.S. to default by not raising the debt ceiling on October 17th, let them.

Let them spend the 10 days between now and then howling and raging about how awful it is that health insurance might soon become more affordable for millions of Americans. Let them roar about how programs like Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are destroying the country, despite the fact that most Americans like them. Let them scream, as they have every day since a Republican President left office, that our debt and deficits will soon obliterate us (never mind that the deficit is shrinking rapidly). And so on.

Let the Republicans finally persuade Wall Street that they are, in fact, so anti-American that they are willing to put their own extreme political views ahead of the country at large. Let them, in other words, finally trigger stock and bond market panics.

And then, a few minutes before midnight on October 17th, save the country.

Some people believe that, in an emergency situation, President Obama would have the legal right to raise the debt ceiling himself.

Others disagree.

So, on the night of October 17th, if the Republicans really have driven the country off the cliff, President Obama should invoke the right that some people think he has... and raise the debt ceiling.

And he shouldn't just raise it a trillion or two.

He should raise it far enough that the country can be spared this absurd charade for many years to come.

He should raise it to, say, $25 trillion — enough to carry the country well into the next Congress and Presidency (when, we can all hope, cooler and more responsible heads might prevail).

The next morning, as world markets breathe a massive collective sigh of relief and business gradually returns to usual (except for U.S. government business, which, by then, assuming the Republicans are still stabbing the shutdown dagger in the back of America, will be taking a real toll on the economy), President Obama can marshal a legal team to defend the decision he has just made.

The legal fight will play out for several years, as all legal fights do.


And, in the end, long after we have a new Congress and new President, and long after everyone in the country has moved on, the Supreme Court can decide once and for all whether a President has the right to save the country if a handful of extremists in Congress become willing to destroy it.

That will certainly be an interesting decision.

But in the meantime, desperate times call for desperate measures. And we appear to be headed toward one.

[link to www.businessinsider.com]
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DessertSocks (OP)

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10/07/2013 05:32 PM

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Re: "Obama Should Raise The Debt Ceiling Himself"
Fire in the bump!

ddddabombbump
"If you want to see a black hole tonight, tonight just look in the direction of Sagittarius, the constellation. That's the center of the Milky Way Galaxy and there's a raging black hole at the very center of that constellation that holds the galaxy together." -Michio Kaku

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PumpkinReaper
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10/07/2013 05:34 PM

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Re: "Obama Should Raise The Debt Ceiling Himself"
Jesus fucking wept.
"I applied my heart to know wisdom, to know madness and folly, I perceived that this also was a chasing at the wind. For in much wisdom is much grief. He who increaseth knowledge, also increaseth sorrow."
Anonymous Coward
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10/07/2013 05:35 PM
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Re: "Obama Should Raise The Debt Ceiling Himself"
Obama should be impeached He is anti American
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10/07/2013 05:44 PM

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Re: "Obama Should Raise The Debt Ceiling Himself"
How do YOU feel about this OP?
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DessertSocks (OP)

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10/07/2013 05:45 PM

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Re: "Obama Should Raise The Debt Ceiling Himself"
How do YOU feel about this OP?
 Quoting: SPUD


I am quite angry.
"If you want to see a black hole tonight, tonight just look in the direction of Sagittarius, the constellation. That's the center of the Milky Way Galaxy and there's a raging black hole at the very center of that constellation that holds the galaxy together." -Michio Kaku

Thread: Say hello to the Colossus Project
DessertSocks (OP)

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10/07/2013 05:46 PM

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Thanks for the pin!!!

[link to www.youtube.com]
"If you want to see a black hole tonight, tonight just look in the direction of Sagittarius, the constellation. That's the center of the Milky Way Galaxy and there's a raging black hole at the very center of that constellation that holds the galaxy together." -Michio Kaku

Thread: Say hello to the Colossus Project
G. House

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10/07/2013 05:47 PM

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Re: "Obama Should Raise The Debt Ceiling Himself"
If the Republicans seriously want to cause the U.S. to default by not raising the debt ceiling on October 17th, let them.

Let them spend the 10 days between now and then howling and raging about how awful it is that health insurance might soon become more affordable for millions of Americans. Let them roar about how programs like Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are destroying the country, despite the fact that most Americans like them. Let them scream, as they have every day since a Republican President left office, that our debt and deficits will soon obliterate us (never mind that the deficit is shrinking rapidly). And so on.

Let the Republicans finally persuade Wall Street that they are, in fact, so anti-American that they are willing to put their own extreme political views ahead of the country at large. Let them, in other words, finally trigger stock and bond market panics.

And then, a few minutes before midnight on October 17th, save the country.

Some people believe that, in an emergency situation, President Obama would have the legal right to raise the debt ceiling himself.

Others disagree.

So, on the night of October 17th, if the Republicans really have driven the country off the cliff, President Obama should invoke the right that some people think he has... and raise the debt ceiling.

And he shouldn't just raise it a trillion or two.

He should raise it far enough that the country can be spared this absurd charade for many years to come.

He should raise it to, say, $25 trillion — enough to carry the country well into the next Congress and Presidency (when, we can all hope, cooler and more responsible heads might prevail).

The next morning, as world markets breathe a massive collective sigh of relief and business gradually returns to usual (except for U.S. government business, which, by then, assuming the Republicans are still stabbing the shutdown dagger in the back of America, will be taking a real toll on the economy), President Obama can marshal a legal team to defend the decision he has just made.

The legal fight will play out for several years, as all legal fights do.


And, in the end, long after we have a new Congress and new President, and long after everyone in the country has moved on, the Supreme Court can decide once and for all whether a President has the right to save the country if a handful of extremists in Congress become willing to destroy it.

That will certainly be an interesting decision.

But in the meantime, desperate times call for desperate measures. And we appear to be headed toward one.

[link to www.businessinsider.com]
 Quoting: DessertSocks


No, Congress has the authority to spend US funds.

The President only has veto powers on the budget. He cannot force a budget or spending on his own. That's the way the Constitution is set up to create...

BALANCE OF POWER.

Seriously if he does anything to circumvent that he should be impeached.

To go a little further.

When Obamacare was passed the Dems had a majority of the House of Representatives and the Senate. Obamacare WAS NOT the will of the people at large which was reflected in Dems losing spots and the majority in the House of Representatives in the election that followed Obabmacares passing.

So...

Obamacare does not really have backing in the population at large.

Libtards should get that through their heads.

It will not stand.

Obamacare is a naked attempt by Libtards to take control of one sixth of the American economy.

History shows that the government is largely INEPT at running things in general. Why there are idiots clamoring for Obamacare is beyond me. Let's just set a match to the whole friggen country and be done with it if that's what you want to do.

Last Edited by G. House on 10/07/2013 05:55 PM
"Everybody lies."
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10/07/2013 05:48 PM
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Re: "Obama Should Raise The Debt Ceiling Himself"
It wouldn't surprise me....I have never in my lifetime seen a more arrogant President and administration. Fact.
alter-ego

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10/07/2013 05:53 PM

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Re: "Obama Should Raise The Debt Ceiling Himself"
he does not have that authority
 Quoting: Ghetto Monk


Wrong. The Constitution is the supreme law of the land and it MANDATES that our debts be paid. By disobeying congress he will be abiding by the constitution. What Boner is doing is unconstitutional and a danger to the countries' integrity.

"The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any state shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void."
my 2 cents

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10/07/2013 05:53 PM

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Re: "Obama Should Raise The Debt Ceiling Himself"
Interesting!

5 star post
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aightism

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10/07/2013 05:55 PM
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Re: "Obama Should Raise The Debt Ceiling Himself"
why not 500 trillion ? or a 1000 trillion

what about a billion gajillion trillion ? or a trillion gajillion illion illion ...

the value of money has no value without gold its toilet paper

thats why they cant keep doing this shit

Last Edited by aightism on 10/07/2013 05:55 PM
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10/07/2013 05:57 PM

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Re: "Obama Should Raise The Debt Ceiling Himself"
he does not have that authority
 Quoting: Ghetto Monk


Not according to Satan....LAWLESS LAWLESS...the more he gets away with the more he can get away with in the future..THE TEFLON TYRANT
El Tiburon

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10/07/2013 05:57 PM

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Re: "Obama Should Raise The Debt Ceiling Himself"
why not 500 trillion ? or a 1000 trillion

what about a billion gajillion trillion ? or a trillion gajillion illion illion ...

the value of money has no value without gold its toilet paper

thats why they cant keep doing this shit
 Quoting: aightism


How about a jillion x a jillion?
G. House

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10/07/2013 05:58 PM

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Re: "Obama Should Raise The Debt Ceiling Himself"
he does not have that authority
 Quoting: Ghetto Monk


Wrong. The Constitution is the supreme law of the land and it MANDATES that our debts be paid. By disobeying congress he will be abiding by the constitution. What Boner is doing is unconstitutional and a danger to the countries' integrity.

"The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any state shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void."
 Quoting: alter-ego


Wrong, it in no way mandates paying debts by incurring more debt.
"Everybody lies."
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10/07/2013 06:02 PM

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Re: "Obama Should Raise The Debt Ceiling Himself"
he does not have that authority
 Quoting: Ghetto Monk


Unless he suspends the constitution and I think that he will do just that.

Most people will celebrate that Obama acted in their best interests in taking away all of their rights and liberties. Yeah they are that fucking stupid.
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Anonymous Coward
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10/07/2013 06:07 PM
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Re: "Obama Should Raise The Debt Ceiling Himself"
If the Republicans seriously want to cause the U.S. to default by not raising the debt ceiling on October 17th, let them.

Let them spend the 10 days between now and then howling and raging about how awful it is that health insurance might soon become more affordable for millions of Americans. Let them roar about how programs like Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are destroying the country, despite the fact that most Americans like them. Let them scream, as they have every day since a Republican President left office, that our debt and deficits will soon obliterate us (never mind that the deficit is shrinking rapidly). And so on.

Let the Republicans finally persuade Wall Street that they are, in fact, so anti-American that they are willing to put their own extreme political views ahead of the country at large. Let them, in other words, finally trigger stock and bond market panics.

And then, a few minutes before midnight on October 17th, save the country.

Some people believe that, in an emergency situation, President Obama would have the legal right to raise the debt ceiling himself.

Others disagree.

So, on the night of October 17th, if the Republicans really have driven the country off the cliff, President Obama should invoke the right that some people think he has... and raise the debt ceiling.

And he shouldn't just raise it a trillion or two.

He should raise it far enough that the country can be spared this absurd charade for many years to come.

He should raise it to, say, $25 trillion — enough to carry the country well into the next Congress and Presidency (when, we can all hope, cooler and more responsible heads might prevail).

The next morning, as world markets breathe a massive collective sigh of relief and business gradually returns to usual (except for U.S. government business, which, by then, assuming the Republicans are still stabbing the shutdown dagger in the back of America, will be taking a real toll on the economy), President Obama can marshal a legal team to defend the decision he has just made.

The legal fight will play out for several years, as all legal fights do.


And, in the end, long after we have a new Congress and new President, and long after everyone in the country has moved on, the Supreme Court can decide once and for all whether a President has the right to save the country if a handful of extremists in Congress become willing to destroy it.

That will certainly be an interesting decision.

But in the meantime, desperate times call for desperate measures. And we appear to be headed toward one.

[link to www.businessinsider.com]
 Quoting: DessertSocks


No, Congress has the authority to spend US funds.

The President only has veto powers on the budget. He cannot force a budget or spending on his own. That's the way the Constitution is set up to create...

BALANCE OF POWER.

Seriously if he does anything to circumvent that he should be impeached.

To go a little further.

When Obamacare was passed the Dems had a majority of the House of Representatives and the Senate. Obamacare WAS NOT the will of the people at large which was reflected in Dems losing spots and the majority in the House of Representatives in the election that followed Obabmacares passing.

So...

Obamacare does not really have backing in the population at large.

Libtards should get that through their heads.

It will not stand.

Obamacare is a naked attempt by Libtards to take control of one sixth of the American economy.

History shows that the government is largely INEPT at running things in general. Why there are idiots clamoring for Obamacare is beyond me. Let's just set a match to the whole friggen country and be done with it if that's what you want to do.
 Quoting: G. House


Exactly, things are being done Constitutionally by the House and Obama thinks he is dictator. The majority does not want this disaster health "care" bill.
alter-ego

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10/07/2013 06:08 PM

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Re: "Obama Should Raise The Debt Ceiling Himself"
he does not have that authority
 Quoting: Ghetto Monk


Wrong. The Constitution is the supreme law of the land and it MANDATES that our debts be paid. By disobeying congress he will be abiding by the constitution. What Boner is doing is unconstitutional and a danger to the countries' integrity.

"The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any state shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void."
 Quoting: alter-ego


Wrong, it in no way mandates paying debts by incurring more debt.
 Quoting: G. House


It doesn't mandate that but it also doesn't say we can't pay our debts like that. We've been paying our debts like that, it's formally accepted.

Who's the constitutional lawyer here? You or Obama?
Anonymous Coward
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10/07/2013 06:11 PM
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Re: "Obama Should Raise The Debt Ceiling Himself"
It will be raised. It will be raised using all the taxes they still collect during the government shut down. They are using our money to help increase the debt ceiling.
alter-ego

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10/07/2013 06:11 PM

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Re: "Obama Should Raise The Debt Ceiling Himself"
he does not have that authority
 Quoting: Ghetto Monk


Unless he suspends the constitution and I think that he will do just that.

Most people will celebrate that Obama acted in their best interests in taking away all of their rights and liberties. Yeah they are that fucking stupid.
 Quoting: Bear Drinker


Bone head Boner and the Tea Party is suspending the constitution (by refusing to repay our debts as the 14th amendment mandates) and scuttling the ship because they're throwing a tantrum over not getting their way. Face it, it's a law now. Let's just see where we are a year from now, maybe we might like it.

Last Edited by Melancholy on 10/07/2013 06:12 PM
Anonymous Coward
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10/07/2013 06:16 PM
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Re: "Obama Should Raise The Debt Ceiling Himself"
he does not have that authority
 Quoting: Ghetto Monk


I wholeheartedly agree but since when has that stopped him?

No one has any balls to call this liar out and impeach his ass.
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10/07/2013 06:17 PM

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Re: "Obama Should Raise The Debt Ceiling Himself"
he does not have that authority
 Quoting: Ghetto Monk


Wrong. The Constitution is the supreme law of the land and it MANDATES that our debts be paid. By disobeying congress he will be abiding by the constitution. What Boner is doing is unconstitutional and a danger to the countries' integrity.

"The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any state shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void."
 Quoting: alter-ego

And what type of money are they supposed to be using?
DessertSocks (OP)

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10/07/2013 06:18 PM

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Re: "Obama Should Raise The Debt Ceiling Himself"
The move is completely illegal. Blodget is referring to the 14th Amendment's 4th Article that says, "The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts… shall not be questioned.”

All the liberals stop reading there, they never read the 5th Section! "The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.”
"If you want to see a black hole tonight, tonight just look in the direction of Sagittarius, the constellation. That's the center of the Milky Way Galaxy and there's a raging black hole at the very center of that constellation that holds the galaxy together." -Michio Kaku

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Useless Cookie Eater

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10/07/2013 06:19 PM

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Re: "Obama Should Raise The Debt Ceiling Himself"
"Obama Should Raise The Debt Ceiling Himself"
 Quoting: DessertSocks


Last time I checked...we were not living in a Dictatorship....yet.

The Executive Branch of government (Obama) has no legal right or authority to unilaterally raise the debt ceiling itself.

clues
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10/07/2013 06:20 PM
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DesertSocks is a Communist
Anonymous Coward
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10/07/2013 06:23 PM
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osuper
DessertSocks (OP)

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10/07/2013 06:27 PM

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Re: "Obama Should Raise The Debt Ceiling Himself"
DesertSocks is a Communist
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15341514


I'm no communist, believe me! I've just posted this to let you know how the left is thinking, looking down the 7 day barrel to default.

These are the ideas that the Democrats are starting to kick around -- keep your head on a swivel.
"If you want to see a black hole tonight, tonight just look in the direction of Sagittarius, the constellation. That's the center of the Milky Way Galaxy and there's a raging black hole at the very center of that constellation that holds the galaxy together." -Michio Kaku

Thread: Say hello to the Colossus Project
alter-ego

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10/07/2013 06:33 PM

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Re: "Obama Should Raise The Debt Ceiling Himself"
The move is completely illegal. Blodget is referring to the 14th Amendment's 4th Article that says, "The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts… shall not be questioned.”

All the liberals stop reading there, they never read the 5th Section! "The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.”
 Quoting: DessertSocks



What about the rest of the amendment? Did congress need to enforce the first 3 parts through legislation? No. You're interpreting it wrong, this is what the 5th part ment:

Section 5, also known as the Enforcement Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, enables Congress to pass laws enforcing the amendment's other provisions.[159][160] In the Civil Rights Cases (1883),[28] the Supreme Court interpreted Section 5 narrowly, stating that "the legislation which Congress is authorized to adopt in this behalf is not general legislation upon the rights of the citizen, but corrective legislation". In other words, the amendment authorizes Congress to pass laws only to combat violations of the rights protected in other sections.

from wikipedia

but this paragraph is also from the wikipedia page which suggests that whether Obama can unilaterally raise the debt ceiling is still up for debate:

"The debt-ceiling crisis in 2011 raised the question of what powers Section 4 gives to the President, an issue that remains unsettled.[154] Some, such as legal scholar Garrett Epps, fiscal expert Bruce Bartlett and Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, have argued that a debt ceiling may be unconstitutional and therefore void as long as it interferes with the duty of the government to pay interest on outstanding bonds and to make payments owed to pensioners (that is, Social Security recipients).[155][156] Legal analyst Jeffrey Rosen has argued that Section 4 gives the President unilateral authority to raise or ignore the national debt ceiling, and that if challenged the Supreme Court would likely rule in favor of expanded executive power or dismiss the case altogether for lack of standing.[157] Erwin Chemerinsky, professor and dean at University of California, Irvine School of Law, has argued that not even in a "dire financial emergency" could the President raise the debt ceiling as "there is no reasonable way to interpret the Constitution that [allows him to do so]"

IMO Obamacare isn't worth going into default over and we should focus on lowering our debt by decreasing military spending.
alter-ego

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10/07/2013 06:35 PM

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DesertSocks is a Communist
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15341514


AC is a typical Fox News tard who doesn't even know what Communism is.
Useless Cookie Eater

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10/07/2013 06:36 PM

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Re: "Obama Should Raise The Debt Ceiling Himself"
DesertSocks is a Communist
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15341514


I'm no communist, believe me! I've just posted this to let you know how the left is thinking, looking down the 7 day barrel to default.

These are the ideas that the Democrats are starting to kick around -- keep your head on a swivel.
 Quoting: DessertSocks


Who says we are going to default in 7 days?
Saddletramp
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10/07/2013 06:39 PM

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Re: "Obama Should Raise The Debt Ceiling Himself"
he does not have that authority
 Quoting: Ghetto Monk


In a declared "Emergency" he can do just about anything, at least according to Executive Orders and Continuity of Government Acts ...but remember, this is how Caesar became a dictator!!!

It's all totally unconstitutional of course, but by the time the Supreme Court hears the case it will be too late...

Is this where we see the full blown Martial Law instead of the creeping Martial Law we've already seen? Time will tell.

Last Edited by Saddletramp on 10/07/2013 06:59 PM
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