"Obama Should Raise The Debt Ceiling Himself" | |
DessertSocks (OP) User ID: 46073742 United States 10/07/2013 05:32 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Fire in the bump! "If you want to see a black hole tonight, tonight just look in the direction of Sagittarius, the constellation. That's the center of the Milky Way Galaxy and there's a raging black hole at the very center of that constellation that holds the galaxy together." -Michio Kaku Thread: Say hello to the Colossus Project |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 40228104 United States 10/07/2013 05:34 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
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SPUD 10/07/2013 05:44 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
DessertSocks (OP) User ID: 46073742 United States 10/07/2013 05:45 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I am quite angry. "If you want to see a black hole tonight, tonight just look in the direction of Sagittarius, the constellation. That's the center of the Milky Way Galaxy and there's a raging black hole at the very center of that constellation that holds the galaxy together." -Michio Kaku Thread: Say hello to the Colossus Project |
DessertSocks (OP) User ID: 46073742 United States 10/07/2013 05:46 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Thanks for the pin!!! [link to www.youtube.com] "If you want to see a black hole tonight, tonight just look in the direction of Sagittarius, the constellation. That's the center of the Milky Way Galaxy and there's a raging black hole at the very center of that constellation that holds the galaxy together." -Michio Kaku Thread: Say hello to the Colossus Project |
G. House User ID: 48033944 United States 10/07/2013 05:47 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If the Republicans seriously want to cause the U.S. to default by not raising the debt ceiling on October 17th, let them. Quoting: DessertSocks Let them spend the 10 days between now and then howling and raging about how awful it is that health insurance might soon become more affordable for millions of Americans. Let them roar about how programs like Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are destroying the country, despite the fact that most Americans like them. Let them scream, as they have every day since a Republican President left office, that our debt and deficits will soon obliterate us (never mind that the deficit is shrinking rapidly). And so on. Let the Republicans finally persuade Wall Street that they are, in fact, so anti-American that they are willing to put their own extreme political views ahead of the country at large. Let them, in other words, finally trigger stock and bond market panics. And then, a few minutes before midnight on October 17th, save the country. Some people believe that, in an emergency situation, President Obama would have the legal right to raise the debt ceiling himself. Others disagree. So, on the night of October 17th, if the Republicans really have driven the country off the cliff, President Obama should invoke the right that some people think he has... and raise the debt ceiling. And he shouldn't just raise it a trillion or two. He should raise it far enough that the country can be spared this absurd charade for many years to come. He should raise it to, say, $25 trillion — enough to carry the country well into the next Congress and Presidency (when, we can all hope, cooler and more responsible heads might prevail). The next morning, as world markets breathe a massive collective sigh of relief and business gradually returns to usual (except for U.S. government business, which, by then, assuming the Republicans are still stabbing the shutdown dagger in the back of America, will be taking a real toll on the economy), President Obama can marshal a legal team to defend the decision he has just made. The legal fight will play out for several years, as all legal fights do. And, in the end, long after we have a new Congress and new President, and long after everyone in the country has moved on, the Supreme Court can decide once and for all whether a President has the right to save the country if a handful of extremists in Congress become willing to destroy it. That will certainly be an interesting decision. But in the meantime, desperate times call for desperate measures. And we appear to be headed toward one. [link to www.businessinsider.com] No, Congress has the authority to spend US funds. The President only has veto powers on the budget. He cannot force a budget or spending on his own. That's the way the Constitution is set up to create... BALANCE OF POWER. Seriously if he does anything to circumvent that he should be impeached. To go a little further. When Obamacare was passed the Dems had a majority of the House of Representatives and the Senate. Obamacare WAS NOT the will of the people at large which was reflected in Dems losing spots and the majority in the House of Representatives in the election that followed Obabmacares passing. So... Obamacare does not really have backing in the population at large. Libtards should get that through their heads. It will not stand. Obamacare is a naked attempt by Libtards to take control of one sixth of the American economy. History shows that the government is largely INEPT at running things in general. Why there are idiots clamoring for Obamacare is beyond me. Let's just set a match to the whole friggen country and be done with it if that's what you want to do. Last Edited by G. House on 10/07/2013 05:55 PM "Everybody lies." |
*Evan User ID: 43993722 United States 10/07/2013 05:48 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
my 2 cents User ID: 26646007 Canada 10/07/2013 05:53 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
aightism User ID: 20344406 Spain 10/07/2013 05:55 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | what about a billion gajillion trillion ? or a trillion gajillion illion illion ... the value of money has no value without gold its toilet paper thats why they cant keep doing this shit Last Edited by aightism on 10/07/2013 05:55 PM OooOOH I listen to you ... OooOOH You carry me through .. Instrumental Are you the 1 I here in my mind?...intertwined.. David Wilcock |
El Tiburon User ID: 28375544 United States 10/07/2013 05:57 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 34455019 United States 10/07/2013 06:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If the Republicans seriously want to cause the U.S. to default by not raising the debt ceiling on October 17th, let them. Quoting: DessertSocks Let them spend the 10 days between now and then howling and raging about how awful it is that health insurance might soon become more affordable for millions of Americans. Let them roar about how programs like Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are destroying the country, despite the fact that most Americans like them. Let them scream, as they have every day since a Republican President left office, that our debt and deficits will soon obliterate us (never mind that the deficit is shrinking rapidly). And so on. Let the Republicans finally persuade Wall Street that they are, in fact, so anti-American that they are willing to put their own extreme political views ahead of the country at large. Let them, in other words, finally trigger stock and bond market panics. And then, a few minutes before midnight on October 17th, save the country. Some people believe that, in an emergency situation, President Obama would have the legal right to raise the debt ceiling himself. Others disagree. So, on the night of October 17th, if the Republicans really have driven the country off the cliff, President Obama should invoke the right that some people think he has... and raise the debt ceiling. And he shouldn't just raise it a trillion or two. He should raise it far enough that the country can be spared this absurd charade for many years to come. He should raise it to, say, $25 trillion — enough to carry the country well into the next Congress and Presidency (when, we can all hope, cooler and more responsible heads might prevail). The next morning, as world markets breathe a massive collective sigh of relief and business gradually returns to usual (except for U.S. government business, which, by then, assuming the Republicans are still stabbing the shutdown dagger in the back of America, will be taking a real toll on the economy), President Obama can marshal a legal team to defend the decision he has just made. The legal fight will play out for several years, as all legal fights do. And, in the end, long after we have a new Congress and new President, and long after everyone in the country has moved on, the Supreme Court can decide once and for all whether a President has the right to save the country if a handful of extremists in Congress become willing to destroy it. That will certainly be an interesting decision. But in the meantime, desperate times call for desperate measures. And we appear to be headed toward one. [link to www.businessinsider.com] No, Congress has the authority to spend US funds. The President only has veto powers on the budget. He cannot force a budget or spending on his own. That's the way the Constitution is set up to create... BALANCE OF POWER. Seriously if he does anything to circumvent that he should be impeached. To go a little further. When Obamacare was passed the Dems had a majority of the House of Representatives and the Senate. Obamacare WAS NOT the will of the people at large which was reflected in Dems losing spots and the majority in the House of Representatives in the election that followed Obabmacares passing. So... Obamacare does not really have backing in the population at large. Libtards should get that through their heads. It will not stand. Obamacare is a naked attempt by Libtards to take control of one sixth of the American economy. History shows that the government is largely INEPT at running things in general. Why there are idiots clamoring for Obamacare is beyond me. Let's just set a match to the whole friggen country and be done with it if that's what you want to do. Exactly, things are being done Constitutionally by the House and Obama thinks he is dictator. The majority does not want this disaster health "care" bill. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 33383855 Netherlands 10/07/2013 06:11 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
DessertSocks (OP) User ID: 46073742 United States 10/07/2013 06:18 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The move is completely illegal. Blodget is referring to the 14th Amendment's 4th Article that says, "The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts… shall not be questioned.” All the liberals stop reading there, they never read the 5th Section! "The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.” "If you want to see a black hole tonight, tonight just look in the direction of Sagittarius, the constellation. That's the center of the Milky Way Galaxy and there's a raging black hole at the very center of that constellation that holds the galaxy together." -Michio Kaku Thread: Say hello to the Colossus Project |
Useless Cookie Eater User ID: 29696048 United States 10/07/2013 06:19 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
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DessertSocks (OP) User ID: 46073742 United States 10/07/2013 06:27 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I'm no communist, believe me! I've just posted this to let you know how the left is thinking, looking down the 7 day barrel to default. These are the ideas that the Democrats are starting to kick around -- keep your head on a swivel. "If you want to see a black hole tonight, tonight just look in the direction of Sagittarius, the constellation. That's the center of the Milky Way Galaxy and there's a raging black hole at the very center of that constellation that holds the galaxy together." -Michio Kaku Thread: Say hello to the Colossus Project |
alter-ego User ID: 3924686 United States 10/07/2013 06:33 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The move is completely illegal. Blodget is referring to the 14th Amendment's 4th Article that says, "The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts… shall not be questioned.” Quoting: DessertSocks All the liberals stop reading there, they never read the 5th Section! "The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.” What about the rest of the amendment? Did congress need to enforce the first 3 parts through legislation? No. You're interpreting it wrong, this is what the 5th part ment: Section 5, also known as the Enforcement Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, enables Congress to pass laws enforcing the amendment's other provisions.[159][160] In the Civil Rights Cases (1883),[28] the Supreme Court interpreted Section 5 narrowly, stating that "the legislation which Congress is authorized to adopt in this behalf is not general legislation upon the rights of the citizen, but corrective legislation". In other words, the amendment authorizes Congress to pass laws only to combat violations of the rights protected in other sections. from wikipedia but this paragraph is also from the wikipedia page which suggests that whether Obama can unilaterally raise the debt ceiling is still up for debate: "The debt-ceiling crisis in 2011 raised the question of what powers Section 4 gives to the President, an issue that remains unsettled.[154] Some, such as legal scholar Garrett Epps, fiscal expert Bruce Bartlett and Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, have argued that a debt ceiling may be unconstitutional and therefore void as long as it interferes with the duty of the government to pay interest on outstanding bonds and to make payments owed to pensioners (that is, Social Security recipients).[155][156] Legal analyst Jeffrey Rosen has argued that Section 4 gives the President unilateral authority to raise or ignore the national debt ceiling, and that if challenged the Supreme Court would likely rule in favor of expanded executive power or dismiss the case altogether for lack of standing.[157] Erwin Chemerinsky, professor and dean at University of California, Irvine School of Law, has argued that not even in a "dire financial emergency" could the President raise the debt ceiling as "there is no reasonable way to interpret the Constitution that [allows him to do so]" IMO Obamacare isn't worth going into default over and we should focus on lowering our debt by decreasing military spending. |
alter-ego User ID: 3924686 United States 10/07/2013 06:35 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Useless Cookie Eater User ID: 29696048 United States 10/07/2013 06:36 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
DessertSocks (OP) User ID: 46073742 United States 10/07/2013 06:41 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The move is completely illegal. Blodget is referring to the 14th Amendment's 4th Article that says, "The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts… shall not be questioned.” Quoting: DessertSocks All the liberals stop reading there, they never read the 5th Section! "The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.” What about the rest of the amendment? Did congress need to enforce the first 3 parts through legislation? No. You're interpreting it wrong, this is what the 5th part ment: Section 5, also known as the Enforcement Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, enables Congress to pass laws enforcing the amendment's other provisions.[159][160] In the Civil Rights Cases (1883),[28] the Supreme Court interpreted Section 5 narrowly, stating that "the legislation which Congress is authorized to adopt in this behalf is not general legislation upon the rights of the citizen, but corrective legislation". In other words, the amendment authorizes Congress to pass laws only to combat violations of the rights protected in other sections. from wikipedia but this paragraph is also from the wikipedia page which suggests that whether Obama can unilaterally raise the debt ceiling is still up for debate: "The debt-ceiling crisis in 2011 raised the question of what powers Section 4 gives to the President, an issue that remains unsettled.[154] Some, such as legal scholar Garrett Epps, fiscal expert Bruce Bartlett and Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, have argued that a debt ceiling may be unconstitutional and therefore void as long as it interferes with the duty of the government to pay interest on outstanding bonds and to make payments owed to pensioners (that is, Social Security recipients).[155][156] Legal analyst Jeffrey Rosen has argued that Section 4 gives the President unilateral authority to raise or ignore the national debt ceiling, and that if challenged the Supreme Court would likely rule in favor of expanded executive power or dismiss the case altogether for lack of standing.[157] Erwin Chemerinsky, professor and dean at University of California, Irvine School of Law, has argued that not even in a "dire financial emergency" could the President raise the debt ceiling as "there is no reasonable way to interpret the Constitution that [allows him to do so]" IMO Obamacare isn't worth going into default over and we should focus on lowering our debt by decreasing military spending. How was I interpreting it wrong? Just because I didn't mention the first three sections of the amendment? They're irrelevant in the debate over the Debt Ceiling. Should we really talk about reconstruction era representation during the debt talk. I understand your points, but I don't understand why youre so mad. "If you want to see a black hole tonight, tonight just look in the direction of Sagittarius, the constellation. That's the center of the Milky Way Galaxy and there's a raging black hole at the very center of that constellation that holds the galaxy together." -Michio Kaku Thread: Say hello to the Colossus Project |
DessertSocks (OP) User ID: 46073742 United States 10/07/2013 06:42 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I'm no communist, believe me! I've just posted this to let you know how the left is thinking, looking down the 7 day barrel to default. These are the ideas that the Democrats are starting to kick around -- keep your head on a swivel. Who says we are going to default in 7 days? I stand corrected: [link to money.cnn.com] "If you want to see a black hole tonight, tonight just look in the direction of Sagittarius, the constellation. That's the center of the Milky Way Galaxy and there's a raging black hole at the very center of that constellation that holds the galaxy together." -Michio Kaku Thread: Say hello to the Colossus Project |
Useless Cookie Eater User ID: 29696048 United States 10/07/2013 06:42 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
alter-ego User ID: 3924686 United States 10/07/2013 06:46 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The move is completely illegal. Blodget is referring to the 14th Amendment's 4th Article that says, "The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts… shall not be questioned.” Quoting: DessertSocks All the liberals stop reading there, they never read the 5th Section! "The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.” What about the rest of the amendment? Did congress need to enforce the first 3 parts through legislation? No. You're interpreting it wrong, this is what the 5th part ment: Section 5, also known as the Enforcement Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, enables Congress to pass laws enforcing the amendment's other provisions.[159][160] In the Civil Rights Cases (1883),[28] the Supreme Court interpreted Section 5 narrowly, stating that "the legislation which Congress is authorized to adopt in this behalf is not general legislation upon the rights of the citizen, but corrective legislation". In other words, the amendment authorizes Congress to pass laws only to combat violations of the rights protected in other sections. from wikipedia but this paragraph is also from the wikipedia page which suggests that whether Obama can unilaterally raise the debt ceiling is still up for debate: "The debt-ceiling crisis in 2011 raised the question of what powers Section 4 gives to the President, an issue that remains unsettled.[154] Some, such as legal scholar Garrett Epps, fiscal expert Bruce Bartlett and Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, have argued that a debt ceiling may be unconstitutional and therefore void as long as it interferes with the duty of the government to pay interest on outstanding bonds and to make payments owed to pensioners (that is, Social Security recipients).[155][156] Legal analyst Jeffrey Rosen has argued that Section 4 gives the President unilateral authority to raise or ignore the national debt ceiling, and that if challenged the Supreme Court would likely rule in favor of expanded executive power or dismiss the case altogether for lack of standing.[157] Erwin Chemerinsky, professor and dean at University of California, Irvine School of Law, has argued that not even in a "dire financial emergency" could the President raise the debt ceiling as "there is no reasonable way to interpret the Constitution that [allows him to do so]" IMO Obamacare isn't worth going into default over and we should focus on lowering our debt by decreasing military spending. How was I interpreting it wrong? Just because I didn't mention the first three sections of the amendment? They're irrelevant in the debate over the Debt Ceiling. Should we really talk about reconstruction era representation during the debt talk. I understand your points, but I don't understand why youre so mad. my point is that congress doesn't need to pass legislation to allow Obama to raise the ceiling by himself |
Useless Cookie Eater User ID: 29696048 United States 10/07/2013 06:48 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I'm no communist, believe me! I've just posted this to let you know how the left is thinking, looking down the 7 day barrel to default. These are the ideas that the Democrats are starting to kick around -- keep your head on a swivel. Who says we are going to default in 7 days? I stand corrected: [link to money.cnn.com] So CNN does? OK....so you believe that the 200 BILLION a month that the USA government takes in will not cover our monthly debt? ....because CNN said so....right? You fully believe that CNN is 100% truthful and has no agenda or spin....and you take them at face value? Just checking how people "KNOW FOR CERTAIN" about something. Interesting commentary on people are led to believe something one way or the other...never mind actual reality. Last Edited by Useless Cookie Eater on 10/07/2013 06:48 PM |
Hawkesbay User ID: 42869654 United States 10/07/2013 06:52 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The basic premise of the Business Insider article is that the constitutional structure of the US government has given too much power to a few individuals in congress, so the president should usurp power that is not granted to him by the constitution to avoid harm coming to the US economy. That's the place that "The Great Uniter" has brought our country. And he's obviously got lots of support for further eroding the constitution, which is pretty much in tatters by now anyway. Politics ain't beanbag, it's a man's game. The stakes here are higher than most seem to believe. Giving so much control of such a vital matter as health care to an intrinsically corrupt and incompetent government changes America in ways that are irreversible. I fervently hope the Tea Party prevails. |
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Saddletramp User ID: 726900 Puerto Rico 10/07/2013 07:00 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If it was a Republican or Libertarian in the White House, do you think that article would have said that?!?!? "And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius "Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..." "We don't rent pigs!" |