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Some thoughts on Jews

 
Anonymous Coward
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10/16/2013 02:06 PM
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Re: Some thoughts on Jews
Still none of you get it.

the remphan symbol is personification of the hybridization of Israel. Obvious ties to Europe and hermetics who frolic with the masquerade ballers who think their deeds are seal.

All of the symbols that mystics use are inversion of biblical symbols. Peter cross example
Anonymous Coward
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10/16/2013 02:06 PM
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Re: Some thoughts on Jews
Amazing that was predicted to, the birthright would be stolen from the sons of God
VeraFromChorley

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10/16/2013 02:07 PM
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Re: Some thoughts on Jews
Never mind all the bull on who is God and who is not, Jesus and all that, the problem is nothing to do with any of that for me. Could not care less about Yahew, God, Jesus whatever. The problem is their stealing and victimizing and being no better than nazis themselves, in their treatment of the Arabs who once lived, thrived and prospered in Israel /Palestine before they stuck their great big jewish noses in.

Last Edited by VeraFromChorley on 10/16/2013 02:12 PM
Dreamily Resonant VIP

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10/16/2013 02:11 PM
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Re: Some thoughts on Jews
...


Sorry but based on how far your religion is into "magick" Jesus came and solved it all without offending the bulk of the world.
Opened the avenue back to adams time
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48436391


BS! jesus never existed! he is not the messiah! 2000 years you tried to convice us that jesus is the son of god... and you failed! because a jew knows his religion better than gentiles! johnny come lately bastards.
 Quoting: Dreamily Resonant VIP


Oh crap, practicing your people skills again? You need to go back and take that "class" again...your style is:

720 unacceptable

Leave people in peace and respect other people's religious beliefs...


Disclaimer: Except for muslims...
 Quoting: davvi



Release the Kraken.... You are in trouble now VIP.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48446044


screw you davvi! fake Israel supporter.
what gives Christians the right to harass jews for 2000 years? making mean shit about them? ministering antisemetic lies about us every sunday?
making us convert by the sword? massacring jews in the crusades and pogroms and what not.

and fuck the muzzies! where are they?
so far they helped us fulfill the prophecy - 'one of you would chase a hundred and a hundred of you would chase ten thousands.

oh and btw you hypocrite christards! before modern Israel, muzzies treated jews quite well, it is chrisatanity which is responsible for most of our sufferings.
Dreamily Resonant VIP

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10/16/2013 02:13 PM
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Re: Some thoughts on Jews
Still none of you get it.

the remphan symbol is personification of the hybridization of Israel. Obvious ties to Europe and hermetics who frolic with the masquerade ballers who think their deeds are seal.

All of the symbols that mystics use are inversion of biblical symbols. Peter cross example
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48436391


stop being such a moron please. you are a fucking disgrace!

obvious ties to Europe? you mean the stupid Christian Europeans who had no depth to their faith so again they stole from the jews?

or you mean the Israeli flag, which is a representation of of the Zionistic regime which answers to the Vatican through masonry??
Dreamily Resonant VIP

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10/16/2013 02:16 PM
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Re: Some thoughts on Jews
going to take my dog for a walk, be back soon.
Anonymous Coward
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10/16/2013 02:25 PM
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Re: Some thoughts on Jews
Still none of you get it.

the remphan symbol is personification of the hybridization of Israel. Obvious ties to Europe and hermetics who frolic with the masquerade ballers who think their deeds are seal.

All of the symbols that mystics use are inversion of biblical symbols. Peter cross example
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48436391


stop being such a moron please. you are a fucking disgrace!

obvious ties to Europe? you mean the stupid Christian Europeans who had no depth to their faith so again they stole from the jews?

or you mean the Israeli flag, which is a representation of of the Zionistic regime which answers to the Vatican through masonry??
 Quoting: Dreamily Resonant VIP


Sorry I don't believe you're Isarellie. It' just doesn't add up.


This message is sorted to the orthodox jews and the other lost boys. Nothing personal. Maybe you're just young and haven't learned about the foundation of Israel yet
Anonymous Coward
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10/16/2013 02:27 PM
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Re: Some thoughts on Jews
...


BS! jesus never existed! he is not the messiah! 2000 years you tried to convice us that jesus is the son of god... and you failed! because a jew knows his religion better than gentiles! johnny come lately bastards.
 Quoting: Dreamily Resonant VIP


Oh crap, practicing your people skills again? You need to go back and take that "class" again...your style is:

:720 unacceptable:

Leave people in peace and respect other people's religious beliefs...


Disclaimer: Except for muslims...
 Quoting: davvi



Release the Kraken.... You are in trouble now VIP.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48446044


screw you davvi! fake Israel supporter.
what gives Christians the right to harass jews for 2000 years? making mean shit about them? ministering antisemetic lies about us every sunday?
making us convert by the sword? massacring jews in the crusades and pogroms and what not.

and fuck the muzzies! where are they?
so far they helped us fulfill the prophecy - 'one of you would chase a hundred and a hundred of you would chase ten thousands.

oh and btw you hypocrite christards! before modern Israel, muzzies treated jews quite well, it is chrisatanity which is responsible for most of our sufferings.
 Quoting: Dreamily Resonant VIP


It appears my message rings true side by side with yours. Once again.
You're fake bro
Montclair de Rallo-Tubbs
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10/16/2013 02:27 PM
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Re: Some thoughts on Jews
Still none of you get it.

the remphan symbol is personification of the hybridization of Israel. Obvious ties to Europe and hermetics who frolic with the masquerade ballers who think their deeds are seal.

All of the symbols that mystics use are inversion of biblical symbols. Peter cross example
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48436391


It was two black bars with a white stripe in the middle originally
MHz

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10/16/2013 02:31 PM
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Re: Some thoughts on Jews
Why do I get the feeling that promoting the theme that God used you as Scribes to publish the rules is not going to go over all that well?
(if you don't use all the text then the conclusion will be less than God intended) but that did not automatically come with full understanding. Daniel was left a bit confused and if he the book of Revelation (written by a disciple of John the Baptist, the last Prophet called by God) Daniel would have been able to wipe away any confusion that was intentionally left in the OT prophecies.

Oh yes, the reason for the post. If a Christian believes in a singular God as taught in the NT then that belief was taught to them by a Jew. Both Paul and the Beloved Disciple refer to Christian Gentiles as 'their children'. Does that not already make us blood brothers?
 Quoting: Dreamily Resonant VIP



oh yes??
 Quoting: Dreamily Resonant VIP

lol In my defense it was the opening few words to a post that was being edited, yours comes as the opening words of a new post so they are not exactly the same, however if it does fine tune how words should be put together I can adapt, ... I hope.

Some will use the argument that the words have been tampered with and nothing is certain anymore. If the NT was written in Greek originally and the 1611KJV use the original Greek for the NY then the words that are there are exactly the same as the ones in Greek. The Torah was an oral book from the time Moses gave it until the exile in Babylon when it was written down. Daniel was there and obviously a writer of sorts, he also had 3 friends and angelic visitors so lets say the OT was back to being exactly the way it was when God gave it to Moses. (mostly so I can justify the term 'latter days' from the De:4:30 prophecy later in the 'talk'.

so far it is Christians who are confused!
 Quoting: Dreamily Resonant VIP

I am the first to admit there is anything but a common thought. God is also going to kill 2/3 of all living Gentiles on the day of return, better they be false chriatians that the 'last few that joined the fold'.
Take way the 7 year trib fable and their opt6ions on what the prophecy means is down to a handful of choices. Expand on what the iron/clay kingdom is and less choices than than that if you want the version that can be understood by referencing the right passage rather than anything else first.
Bring up the fact that Rome was in the brass and most Christians will have abandoned you (thankfully) They are what they say and after awhile you are just arguing with God himself.
Here is a question about the OT teachers. All the books listed after Daniel were actually written before Daniel, is somebody slipping us a clue as to how the transition that is happening at the end of the last metal kingdom at the end of Da:11 actually going to unfold? I ask that because every prophecy in every book after Daniel can be shown to apply only to the transition from the end of the iron/clay and the eternal kingdom under one king for eternity.

dumbasses think that Daniel and revelations coincide!
 Quoting: Dreamily Resonant VIP

Da:7 and this verse clearly show they are related as far as prophecy is concerned. Once that is agreed on the conversation is still going to take a few pages., as it should if it is going to be at all convincing, luckily most of that are actual passages rather than personal opinion. If a short introduction is unclear then start earlier in the prophecy.

half week here half week there,
 Quoting: Dreamily Resonant VIP

The cross was at mid-week. The first verse below is a reference to the whole 70 weeks, time=7 weeks, times=62 weeks, half= 3 1/2 years from the time John the Baptist was called. Once he was in prison Jesus took over the ministry John started and the combined time was 1260 days, the 1260 days after the cross saw these abominations with the 3 1/2 years which is when Gentile food was made clean and Peter taught Gentiles about God. What was started then was not finished then, nor has it finished yet but prophecy gives us a pretty clear video of just how that unfolds.

Da:12:7:
And I heard the man clothed in linen,
which was upon the waters of the river,
when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven,
and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time,
times,
and an half;
and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people,
all these things shall be finished.

At the end of the 70 week period the thing that had been finished is all things to do with the bruise to the heel in Ge:3:15. Moses and the 10 Commandments were the beginning of events associated with that bruise to the heel and the cross was the last event associated with that.

When Peter began to teach Gentiles in Act:10 it was to prepare them for the time that Jesus will say, 'It is done.' as he pours out the last vial in Re:16.

you morons are still waiting for the beast that makes desolation or something are you not?
 Quoting: Dreamily Resonant VIP

That 70 week thing prevents them from seeing that the reference to Daniel in Matthew 24 is about a verse from Da:11 rather than from Da:9 which belongs to the verse from Da:as as it's fulfillment thanks to Rome in the time of the Gospel of John.

Joh:1:35:
Again the next day after John stood,
and two of his disciples;
Joh:1:36:
And looking upon Jesus as he walked,
he saith,
Behold the Lamb of God!
Joh:1:37:
And the two disciples heard him speak,
and they followed Jesus.

Joh:21:24:
This is the disciple which testifieth of these things,
and wrote these things:
and we know that his testimony is true.

morons don't know that happened 2000 years ago.
 Quoting: Dreamily Resonant VIP

I hate to be the bearer of bad new but you highest authority on god made their minds up back in the time of Daniel and not one real update since then.

Last Edited by MHz on 10/16/2013 02:35 PM
Anonymous Coward
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10/16/2013 02:33 PM
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Re: Some thoughts on Jews
going to take my dog for a walk, be back soon.
 Quoting: Dreamily Resonant VIP


<timeout> Thinkin', about getting a Tavor civilian version, any input<timein>
Anonymous Coward
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10/16/2013 02:34 PM
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Re: Some thoughts on Jews
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lol you seem really mad. You mad? And lol at that bs from you. I left because you kept changing the subject and would not accept the truth. So now I will beat you over the head with it again for I detect no humility from you, only pride and we all know that pride comes before the fall.

Yeshua matched the timeline for the Messiah in Daniel, that's how the wise men knew where to find Him. Yet, your Messiah never came. What's up with that? (Me)

"eh no he didn't, who did match the timeline was the anointed priest who was cut off when the temple was destroyed." (You)

"Nonsense. That prophecy was a messianic prophecy. No evil priest would have fulfilled it." (Me)

"the fact that it uses the term CUT OFF implies the anointed one is evil.

see for yourself, its consistent throughout the bible, the term cut off is always used in regard of a wicked person." (You)

0 And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the Lord my God for the holy mountain of my God;

21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.

23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


Are you so stupidly claiming the an evil priest was the Messiah Daniel mentioned that would bring in everlasting righteousness and make reconciliation for iniquity? The Messiah comes from the tribe of Judah, a priest comes from Levi!!! The word of God rebuke your lies!!! Such a weak argument. (Me)

"you don't need how to read the bible, it says after the 70 weeks the time period where messiah can come would start.

the messiah who was cut off is not THE messiah, but a regular anointed. IE the priest who was indeed cut off!

messiah prince is also not THE messiah, but cyrus.
between cyrus and the destruction of the temple are 62 weeks + 7 weeks before cyrus + 2 half of weeks at the end = 70 weeks." (You)

""you don't need how to read the bible, it says after the 70 weeks the time period where messiah can come would start."

I don't know how to read the bible? I think I can read it just fine. Please show me where it says that?" (Me)

"the messiah who was cut off is not THE messiah, but a regular anointed."

"You say this yet the word of God says this,

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Oh that sounds familiar,

Matthew 2:11

King James Version (KJV)

11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh." (Me)

""it says after the 70 weeks the time period where messiah can come would start"

Where exactly does it say that. I must have missed it. No, I think it was pretty specific about the time-frame. That's why it called Daniels seventy seven prophecy." (Me)

"right there.

it is implied these things would happen only after the 70 weeks by the fact that the prophecy of the 70 weeks itself is very different, and opposite to what the angel had said.


They anointed the Messiah just as had been prophesied!!!" (You)

"Otherwise, how would the magi have known when to come? The star of Bethlehem also backs it up."

[link to www.religiontoday.com] (Me)

"right there.

it is implied these things would happen only after the 70 weeks by the fact that the prophecy of the 70 weeks itself is very different, and opposite to what the angel had said."
Quoting: Dreamily Resonant VIP


"Where?!

lol you are really squirming now, aren't you?

Please, I want you to spell it out for me. Copy and paste it." (Me)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48408291


read the fucking text you fucking moron! I proved my point 100 % but its the same case with you! you are too stupid to understand!!

and im a descendand of king david.
 Quoting: Dreamily Resonant VIP


What text? Why are you afraid of linking it? And lol, you are the son of two Persians. Your people were King Davids enemies. But your delusions of grandeur of very amusing you simpleton.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48408291


ill go over it one last time.
7 weeks until messiah prince - cyrus!
then after cyrus issues the order to rebuild Jerusalem and the temple, calculate 62 weeks, that is when the temple was destroyed and A messiah was CUT OFF! the A messiah was the high priest! a messiah is not THE messiah! get it into your little stupid brain of yours! also it says CUT OFF! cut off is always used in regard of wicked people! always!!
and it says 70 weeks decreed to do this and that etc... but keep reading and you would see NONE OF IT HAD HAPPENED! because in the Hebrew it is clear that all these things to do, are to be done AFTER the 70 weeks ended.

jews migrated all over the world, doesn't matter where my jewish family were before they came to Israel, my fathers line still connects to king david.
and my mothers side is of a jews who belonged to the order of the hashashins.
 Quoting: Dreamily Resonant VIP



"the commencement of the weeks (as he remarks) must be either from the seventh of Artaxerxes, which falls on 457 B.C. or from the twentieth of Artaxerxes; (add to 457 B.C., twenty six years after Christ, which is the number that four hundred and eighty three years, or sixty nine weeks, exceeds four hundred and fifty seven years); and you are brought to the beginning of John the Baptist's preaching up the advent of the Messiah; add seven years or one week to the former, and you come to the thirty third year of A.D. which was the year of Jesus Christ's death or else compute four hundred and ninety years, the whole seventy weeks, from the seventh of Artaxerxes, by subtracting four hundred and fifty seven years (the space of time between that year and the beginning of A.D.) from four hundred and ninety, and there remains thirty three, the year of our Lord's death. Let the twentieth of Artaxerxes be the date of the seventy weeks, which is 455 B.C. and reckon sixty nine weeks of Chaldean years; seventy Chaldee years being equal to sixty nine Julian; and so four hundred and seventy eight Julian years making four hundred and eighty three Chaldee years, and they end in the thirty third year after Christ, or the passover following (d)'';

the several particulars into which these seventy weeks are divided:

unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks; by whom is meant, not Cyrus, as Jarchi and Jacchiades; who, though called Messiah or anointed, Isaiah 44:28, cannot be intended; for this prince was to be cut off after seven, and sixty two weeks, or four hundred and eighty three years; whereas Cyrus died ages before this, and even died before the expiration of the seven weeks, or forty nine years; nor Joshua the high priest, or Zerubbabel, as Ben Gersom and others nor Nehemiah as Aben Ezra; nor Artaxerxes, which R. Azariah (e) thinks probable; for to none of these will this character agree, which denotes some eminent person known by this name; nor the work ascribed to him, Daniel 9:24, nor can it be said of either of them that they were cut off, and much less at such a period as is here fixed: it is right to interpret it of the promised and expected Saviour, whom the Psalmist David had frequently spoken of under the name of the Messiah, and as a King and Prince; see Psalm 2:2 and who is David, the Prince Ezekiel before this had prophesied of, Ezekiel 34:24, and is the same with the Prince of peace in the famous prophecy of him in Isaiah 9:6. The Syriac version, though not a literal one, gives the true sense of the passage, rendering it,

"unto the coming of the King Messiah;''

unto which there were to be seven, and sixty two weeks, or sixty nine weeks, which make four hundred and eighty three years; and these being understood of eastern years, used by the Egyptians, Chaldeans, and Persians, consisting of three hundred and sixty days, reckoning thirty days to a month, and twelve months to a year, there were just four hundred and eighty three of these from the twentieth year of Artaxerxes to the thirty third of the vulgar era of Christ, and the nineteenth of Tiberius Caesar, in which he suffered. Sir Isaac Newton (f) thinks the seven weeks unto Messiah, which he detaches from the sixty two, respects the second coming of Christ, when he shall come as a Prince, and destroy antichrist, and that it takes in the compass of a jubilee; but when it will begin and end he does not pretend to say; but the true reason of the sixty nine weeks being divided into seven, and sixty two, is on account of the particular and distinct events assigned to each period, as follows:

the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times; that is, within the space of seven weeks, or forty nine years, reckoning from the twentieth of Artaxerxes; when the Jews had a grant to rebuild their city and wall, and were furnished with materials for it; and which was done in very troublesome times; Nehemiah, and the Jews with him, met with much trouble from Sanballat, Tobiah, and Geshem the Arabian, while they were setting up the wall of the city, and filling the streets with ranges of houses, Nehemiah chapters four and five for which the space of seven weeks, or forty nine years, were cut out and appointed; and that this event belongs solely to this period is clear from the Messiah's coming being appropriated to the period of the sixty two weeks; which leaves this entirely where it is fixed.
Anonymous Coward
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10/16/2013 02:34 PM
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Re: Some thoughts on Jews
As long as jews exist there will never be peace on earth.
Anonymous Coward
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10/16/2013 02:38 PM
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Re: Some thoughts on Jews
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read the fucking text you fucking moron! I proved my point 100 % but its the same case with you! you are too stupid to understand!!

and im a descendand of king david.
 Quoting: Dreamily Resonant VIP


What text? Why are you afraid of linking it? And lol, you are the son of two Persians. Your people were King Davids enemies. But your delusions of grandeur of very amusing you simpleton.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48408291


ill go over it one last time.
7 weeks until messiah prince - cyrus!
then after cyrus issues the order to rebuild Jerusalem and the temple, calculate 62 weeks, that is when the temple was destroyed and A messiah was CUT OFF! the A messiah was the high priest! a messiah is not THE messiah! get it into your little stupid brain of yours! also it says CUT OFF! cut off is always used in regard of wicked people! always!!
and it says 70 weeks decreed to do this and that etc... but keep reading and you would see NONE OF IT HAD HAPPENED! because in the Hebrew it is clear that all these things to do, are to be done AFTER the 70 weeks ended.

jews migrated all over the world, doesn't matter where my jewish family were before they came to Israel, my fathers line still connects to king david.
and my mothers side is of a jews who belonged to the order of the hashashins.
 Quoting: Dreamily Resonant VIP



"the commencement of the weeks (as he remarks) must be either from the seventh of Artaxerxes, which falls on 457 B.C. or from the twentieth of Artaxerxes; (add to 457 B.C., twenty six years after Christ, which is the number that four hundred and eighty three years, or sixty nine weeks, exceeds four hundred and fifty seven years); and you are brought to the beginning of John the Baptist's preaching up the advent of the Messiah; add seven years or one week to the former, and you come to the thirty third year of A.D. which was the year of Jesus Christ's death or else compute four hundred and ninety years, the whole seventy weeks, from the seventh of Artaxerxes, by subtracting four hundred and fifty seven years (the space of time between that year and the beginning of A.D.) from four hundred and ninety, and there remains thirty three, the year of our Lord's death. Let the twentieth of Artaxerxes be the date of the seventy weeks, which is 455 B.C. and reckon sixty nine weeks of Chaldean years; seventy Chaldee years being equal to sixty nine Julian; and so four hundred and seventy eight Julian years making four hundred and eighty three Chaldee years, and they end in the thirty third year after Christ, or the passover following (d)'';

the several particulars into which these seventy weeks are divided:

unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks; by whom is meant, not Cyrus, as Jarchi and Jacchiades; who, though called Messiah or anointed, Isaiah 44:28, cannot be intended; for this prince was to be cut off after seven, and sixty two weeks, or four hundred and eighty three years; whereas Cyrus died ages before this, and even died before the expiration of the seven weeks, or forty nine years; nor Joshua the high priest, or Zerubbabel, as Ben Gersom and others nor Nehemiah as Aben Ezra; nor Artaxerxes, which R. Azariah (e) thinks probable; for to none of these will this character agree, which denotes some eminent person known by this name; nor the work ascribed to him, Daniel 9:24, nor can it be said of either of them that they were cut off, and much less at such a period as is here fixed: it is right to interpret it of the promised and expected Saviour, whom the Psalmist David had frequently spoken of under the name of the Messiah, and as a King and Prince; see Psalm 2:2 and who is David, the Prince Ezekiel before this had prophesied of, Ezekiel 34:24, and is the same with the Prince of peace in the famous prophecy of him in Isaiah 9:6. The Syriac version, though not a literal one, gives the true sense of the passage, rendering it,

"unto the coming of the King Messiah;''

unto which there were to be seven, and sixty two weeks, or sixty nine weeks, which make four hundred and eighty three years; and these being understood of eastern years, used by the Egyptians, Chaldeans, and Persians, consisting of three hundred and sixty days, reckoning thirty days to a month, and twelve months to a year, there were just four hundred and eighty three of these from the twentieth year of Artaxerxes to the thirty third of the vulgar era of Christ, and the nineteenth of Tiberius Caesar, in which he suffered. Sir Isaac Newton (f) thinks the seven weeks unto Messiah, which he detaches from the sixty two, respects the second coming of Christ, when he shall come as a Prince, and destroy antichrist, and that it takes in the compass of a jubilee; but when it will begin and end he does not pretend to say; but the true reason of the sixty nine weeks being divided into seven, and sixty two, is on account of the particular and distinct events assigned to each period, as follows:

the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times; that is, within the space of seven weeks, or forty nine years, reckoning from the twentieth of Artaxerxes; when the Jews had a grant to rebuild their city and wall, and were furnished with materials for it; and which was done in very troublesome times; Nehemiah, and the Jews with him, met with much trouble from Sanballat, Tobiah, and Geshem the Arabian, while they were setting up the wall of the city, and filling the streets with ranges of houses, Nehemiah chapters four and five for which the space of seven weeks, or forty nine years, were cut out and appointed; and that this event belongs solely to this period is clear from the Messiah's coming being appropriated to the period of the sixty two weeks; which leaves this entirely where it is fixed.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48457988


I would have replied sooner but some stupid fucking auto-ban keeps banning me. I had to post that up above to see if the word was contained in it but it's obviously not. My first point, ok fair enough, I accept that it refers to King Cyrus as Messiah Prince. Not Messiah but Messiah Prince, it makes the distinction. Secondly you say the prophecy refers to King Cyrus but that cannot be for he does not match the time-line, you are off by many centuries. It refers to Roman times, the exact time when Yeshua the Messiah lived on Earth. See up above for a description of those facts.
Dreamily Resonant VIP

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10/16/2013 02:38 PM
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Re: Some thoughts on Jews
Still none of you get it.

the remphan symbol is personification of the hybridization of Israel. Obvious ties to Europe and hermetics who frolic with the masquerade ballers who think their deeds are seal.

All of the symbols that mystics use are inversion of biblical symbols. Peter cross example
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48436391


stop being such a moron please. you are a fucking disgrace!

obvious ties to Europe? you mean the stupid Christian Europeans who had no depth to their faith so again they stole from the jews?

or you mean the Israeli flag, which is a representation of of the Zionistic regime which answers to the Vatican through masonry??
 Quoting: Dreamily Resonant VIP


Sorry I don't believe you're Isarellie. It' just doesn't add up.


This message is sorted to the orthodox jews and the other lost boys. Nothing personal. Maybe you're just young and haven't learned about the foundation of Israel yet
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48436391


oh I am! im jew! I come from a long line of jews and I trace back to king david.
my family became secular 2 generations ago, but all married jews and with circumcision in males.
I am in the process of becoming orthodox.
and yes I am young, 21 to be exact, but it says nothing about my wisdom.
don't count me a fool, I know enough about the modern Zionist regime to be a masonic none jewish plot!
I use this for my advantage in court! they tell me to swear on the jewish bible, and I respond only if you promise to stick to jewish law, which they cant do because they follow roman maritime UCC law, like every other UN nation.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Some thoughts on Jews
there is no such thing as "Jew":

Benjamin Freedman - Willard Hotel - 1961-4-5 - Vostfr







[link to www.viddler.com]
1rof1
davvi

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Re: Some thoughts on Jews
The jews wondered for years in the wilderness for years, then came upon the promised land (Israel) you lot lived there about 400 years, then about 2000 years ago, you all pissed-off to live all over Europe, wandering around. So the Arab people took over the land, they had been there nigh on 2000 years by 1946 when you lot claimed it has your own again.

In those 2000 years those Arabs earned their “squatter's rights” and “possession is 9/10ths of the law” entitlement to the land.

You have no right reclaiming it now. You are nothing but thieves and land grabbers.

[link to mondoweiss.net]

hitlercat
 Quoting: VeraFromChorley


Jews have a home...thanks for your concern, Brit...
There are three genders in the US, male, female and democrat. Democrat men are not really women, they just act like it.

I never give RED karma, only GREEN for great posters. If you give me red or green please leave your name, I like to say thank you...

Leftist Jews create anti-Semitism.


Krauthammer: "If Fences Don't Work, Why Is There One Around The White House?"
Dreamily Resonant VIP

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Re: Some thoughts on Jews
...


What text? Why are you afraid of linking it? And lol, you are the son of two Persians. Your people were King Davids enemies. But your delusions of grandeur of very amusing you simpleton.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48408291


ill go over it one last time.
7 weeks until messiah prince - cyrus!
then after cyrus issues the order to rebuild Jerusalem and the temple, calculate 62 weeks, that is when the temple was destroyed and A messiah was CUT OFF! the A messiah was the high priest! a messiah is not THE messiah! get it into your little stupid brain of yours! also it says CUT OFF! cut off is always used in regard of wicked people! always!!
and it says 70 weeks decreed to do this and that etc... but keep reading and you would see NONE OF IT HAD HAPPENED! because in the Hebrew it is clear that all these things to do, are to be done AFTER the 70 weeks ended.

jews migrated all over the world, doesn't matter where my jewish family were before they came to Israel, my fathers line still connects to king david.
and my mothers side is of a jews who belonged to the order of the hashashins.
 Quoting: Dreamily Resonant VIP



"the commencement of the weeks (as he remarks) must be either from the seventh of Artaxerxes, which falls on 457 B.C. or from the twentieth of Artaxerxes; (add to 457 B.C., twenty six years after Christ, which is the number that four hundred and eighty three years, or sixty nine weeks, exceeds four hundred and fifty seven years); and you are brought to the beginning of John the Baptist's preaching up the advent of the Messiah; add seven years or one week to the former, and you come to the thirty third year of A.D. which was the year of Jesus Christ's death or else compute four hundred and ninety years, the whole seventy weeks, from the seventh of Artaxerxes, by subtracting four hundred and fifty seven years (the space of time between that year and the beginning of A.D.) from four hundred and ninety, and there remains thirty three, the year of our Lord's death. Let the twentieth of Artaxerxes be the date of the seventy weeks, which is 455 B.C. and reckon sixty nine weeks of Chaldean years; seventy Chaldee years being equal to sixty nine Julian; and so four hundred and seventy eight Julian years making four hundred and eighty three Chaldee years, and they end in the thirty third year after Christ, or the passover following (d)'';

the several particulars into which these seventy weeks are divided:

unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks; by whom is meant, not Cyrus, as Jarchi and Jacchiades; who, though called Messiah or anointed, Isaiah 44:28, cannot be intended; for this prince was to be cut off after seven, and sixty two weeks, or four hundred and eighty three years; whereas Cyrus died ages before this, and even died before the expiration of the seven weeks, or forty nine years; nor Joshua the high priest, or Zerubbabel, as Ben Gersom and others nor Nehemiah as Aben Ezra; nor Artaxerxes, which R. Azariah (e) thinks probable; for to none of these will this character agree, which denotes some eminent person known by this name; nor the work ascribed to him, Daniel 9:24, nor can it be said of either of them that they were cut off, and much less at such a period as is here fixed: it is right to interpret it of the promised and expected Saviour, whom the Psalmist David had frequently spoken of under the name of the Messiah, and as a King and Prince; see Psalm 2:2 and who is David, the Prince Ezekiel before this had prophesied of, Ezekiel 34:24, and is the same with the Prince of peace in the famous prophecy of him in Isaiah 9:6. The Syriac version, though not a literal one, gives the true sense of the passage, rendering it,

"unto the coming of the King Messiah;''

unto which there were to be seven, and sixty two weeks, or sixty nine weeks, which make four hundred and eighty three years; and these being understood of eastern years, used by the Egyptians, Chaldeans, and Persians, consisting of three hundred and sixty days, reckoning thirty days to a month, and twelve months to a year, there were just four hundred and eighty three of these from the twentieth year of Artaxerxes to the thirty third of the vulgar era of Christ, and the nineteenth of Tiberius Caesar, in which he suffered. Sir Isaac Newton (f) thinks the seven weeks unto Messiah, which he detaches from the sixty two, respects the second coming of Christ, when he shall come as a Prince, and destroy antichrist, and that it takes in the compass of a jubilee; but when it will begin and end he does not pretend to say; but the true reason of the sixty nine weeks being divided into seven, and sixty two, is on account of the particular and distinct events assigned to each period, as follows:

the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times; that is, within the space of seven weeks, or forty nine years, reckoning from the twentieth of Artaxerxes; when the Jews had a grant to rebuild their city and wall, and were furnished with materials for it; and which was done in very troublesome times; Nehemiah, and the Jews with him, met with much trouble from Sanballat, Tobiah, and Geshem the Arabian, while they were setting up the wall of the city, and filling the streets with ranges of houses, Nehemiah chapters four and five for which the space of seven weeks, or forty nine years, were cut out and appointed; and that this event belongs solely to this period is clear from the Messiah's coming being appropriated to the period of the sixty two weeks; which leaves this entirely where it is fixed.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48457988


I would have replied sooner but some stupid fucking auto-ban keeps banning me. I had to post that up above to see if the word was contained in it but it's obviously not. My first point, ok fair enough, I accept that it refers to King Cyrus as Messiah Prince. Not Messiah but Messiah Prince, it makes the distinction. Secondly you say the prophecy refers to King Cyrus but that cannot be for he does not match the time-line, you are off by many centuries. It refers to Roman times, the exact time when Yeshua the Messiah lived on Earth. See up above for a description of those facts.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48457988


it is not about artaxeres... he issued no order of rebuilding Jerusalem, read the bible please.
CharlestonSC

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Re: Some thoughts on Jews
you fucking jelous? we were chosen, deal with it!

unlike fucking Christianity or islam jews believe in live and let live, we never went on jusades or juhads...

it is you wretched gentiles who came to us! it is you who started bugging us!

it is you who ripped off our religion and then you come crying about how crazy the jews are??? fuck off!

and btw! Judaism is a blood faith! IE a gentile can convert then he is allowed to marry a jew thus he is joined into the blood line by sacred marriage!
 Quoting: Dreamily Resonant VIP


A lot of wretched gentiles dislike Jews for precisely the reason in bold. I personally don't, but a lot of people take it the wrong way.

I am pretty sure this is what they teach you in school in Israel. Xtians and Muslims are scum, Europeans are subhuman. I've read what the education board has said in Israel, it's disgusting.

eyeroll2
 Quoting: Ikhthus


you can lick my sweaty balls moron!
it is you Christians who ripped off our religion! it is you who added lies to it!
i care not what you think! i call you wretched because that is exactly what you are!!! coming into anothers house and deciding renovate?! who the fuck are you?!!
 Quoting: Dreamily Resonant VIP




Wow, you are really angry Resonant. I'm not jewish, and i'll be the first to admit, i don't know a lot about your beliefs, or how you practice your religion but you have the right to your religion and i respect that. I respect all people of all different faiths (except extremists who go on killing sprees in the name of their "god"). I believe in treating people the way i want to be treated. I believe in the Bible which i thought was considered to be Christian?. I wasn't around 2000 years ago so i don't know what happened then, and i don't think i should be condemned for my "ancestors" actions. I don't have any ill will towards jews or any other religion (except the extremists again). It's a shame we can't all just live in peace. stop the hate and stop the violence. I know you're going to slam me to which i say, go ahead if it makes you feel better.
peace
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Some thoughts on Jews
Thirdly, you say the Messiah who is cut off refers to King Cyrus and that he was evil. How can that be when King Cyrus was God's anointed whom blessed Judah? That is not biblical so you are wrong on that point.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Verse 25 clearly refers to King Cyrus, God's anointed.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Verse 26 refers to the Messianic Prophecy/Yeshua and I noticed how you conveniently left out the last part, he was cut off but not for himself.
Anonymous Coward
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10/16/2013 02:43 PM
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Re: Some thoughts on Jews
Still none of you get it.

the remphan symbol is personification of the hybridization of Israel. Obvious ties to Europe and hermetics who frolic with the masquerade ballers who think their deeds are seal.

All of the symbols that mystics use are inversion of biblical symbols. Peter cross example
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48436391


It was two black bars with a white stripe in the middle originally
 Quoting: Montclair de Rallo-Tubbs 48437688


If that is so, I thank you for bringing it to conversation. Now what does it mean?
\I could make a guess but this is yours
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Some thoughts on Jews
Also, who is this mysterious priest you keep mentioning? And where is your Messiah since you reject Yeshua who matched Daniels prophecy of the seventy weeks? Do you claim it to be a false prophecy?
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Re: Some thoughts on Jews
Ok I'll pre-empt so that maybe people can learn from my mistak.
Does the 2 black bar have anything to do with the law?
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Re: Some thoughts on Jews
...


ill go over it one last time.
7 weeks until messiah prince - cyrus!
then after cyrus issues the order to rebuild Jerusalem and the temple, calculate 62 weeks, that is when the temple was destroyed and A messiah was CUT OFF! the A messiah was the high priest! a messiah is not THE messiah! get it into your little stupid brain of yours! also it says CUT OFF! cut off is always used in regard of wicked people! always!!
and it says 70 weeks decreed to do this and that etc... but keep reading and you would see NONE OF IT HAD HAPPENED! because in the Hebrew it is clear that all these things to do, are to be done AFTER the 70 weeks ended.

jews migrated all over the world, doesn't matter where my jewish family were before they came to Israel, my fathers line still connects to king david.
and my mothers side is of a jews who belonged to the order of the hashashins.
 Quoting: Dreamily Resonant VIP



"the commencement of the weeks (as he remarks) must be either from the seventh of Artaxerxes, which falls on 457 B.C. or from the twentieth of Artaxerxes; (add to 457 B.C., twenty six years after Christ, which is the number that four hundred and eighty three years, or sixty nine weeks, exceeds four hundred and fifty seven years); and you are brought to the beginning of John the Baptist's preaching up the advent of the Messiah; add seven years or one week to the former, and you come to the thirty third year of A.D. which was the year of Jesus Christ's death or else compute four hundred and ninety years, the whole seventy weeks, from the seventh of Artaxerxes, by subtracting four hundred and fifty seven years (the space of time between that year and the beginning of A.D.) from four hundred and ninety, and there remains thirty three, the year of our Lord's death. Let the twentieth of Artaxerxes be the date of the seventy weeks, which is 455 B.C. and reckon sixty nine weeks of Chaldean years; seventy Chaldee years being equal to sixty nine Julian; and so four hundred and seventy eight Julian years making four hundred and eighty three Chaldee years, and they end in the thirty third year after Christ, or the passover following (d)'';

the several particulars into which these seventy weeks are divided:

unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks; by whom is meant, not Cyrus, as Jarchi and Jacchiades; who, though called Messiah or anointed, Isaiah 44:28, cannot be intended; for this prince was to be cut off after seven, and sixty two weeks, or four hundred and eighty three years; whereas Cyrus died ages before this, and even died before the expiration of the seven weeks, or forty nine years; nor Joshua the high priest, or Zerubbabel, as Ben Gersom and others nor Nehemiah as Aben Ezra; nor Artaxerxes, which R. Azariah (e) thinks probable; for to none of these will this character agree, which denotes some eminent person known by this name; nor the work ascribed to him, Daniel 9:24, nor can it be said of either of them that they were cut off, and much less at such a period as is here fixed: it is right to interpret it of the promised and expected Saviour, whom the Psalmist David had frequently spoken of under the name of the Messiah, and as a King and Prince; see Psalm 2:2 and who is David, the Prince Ezekiel before this had prophesied of, Ezekiel 34:24, and is the same with the Prince of peace in the famous prophecy of him in Isaiah 9:6. The Syriac version, though not a literal one, gives the true sense of the passage, rendering it,

"unto the coming of the King Messiah;''

unto which there were to be seven, and sixty two weeks, or sixty nine weeks, which make four hundred and eighty three years; and these being understood of eastern years, used by the Egyptians, Chaldeans, and Persians, consisting of three hundred and sixty days, reckoning thirty days to a month, and twelve months to a year, there were just four hundred and eighty three of these from the twentieth year of Artaxerxes to the thirty third of the vulgar era of Christ, and the nineteenth of Tiberius Caesar, in which he suffered. Sir Isaac Newton (f) thinks the seven weeks unto Messiah, which he detaches from the sixty two, respects the second coming of Christ, when he shall come as a Prince, and destroy antichrist, and that it takes in the compass of a jubilee; but when it will begin and end he does not pretend to say; but the true reason of the sixty nine weeks being divided into seven, and sixty two, is on account of the particular and distinct events assigned to each period, as follows:

the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times; that is, within the space of seven weeks, or forty nine years, reckoning from the twentieth of Artaxerxes; when the Jews had a grant to rebuild their city and wall, and were furnished with materials for it; and which was done in very troublesome times; Nehemiah, and the Jews with him, met with much trouble from Sanballat, Tobiah, and Geshem the Arabian, while they were setting up the wall of the city, and filling the streets with ranges of houses, Nehemiah chapters four and five for which the space of seven weeks, or forty nine years, were cut out and appointed; and that this event belongs solely to this period is clear from the Messiah's coming being appropriated to the period of the sixty two weeks; which leaves this entirely where it is fixed.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48457988


I would have replied sooner but some stupid fucking auto-ban keeps banning me. I had to post that up above to see if the word was contained in it but it's obviously not. My first point, ok fair enough, I accept that it refers to King Cyrus as Messiah Prince. Not Messiah but Messiah Prince, it makes the distinction. Secondly you say the prophecy refers to King Cyrus but that cannot be for he does not match the time-line, you are off by many centuries. It refers to Roman times, the exact time when Yeshua the Messiah lived on Earth. See up above for a description of those facts.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48457988


it is not about artaxeres... he issued no order of rebuilding Jerusalem, read the bible please.
 Quoting: Dreamily Resonant VIP


Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

Know, therefore, and understand,.... Take notice and observe, for the clearer understanding of these seventy weeks, and the events to be fulfilled in them, what will be further said concerning them, the beginning of them, their distinct periods, and what shall be accomplished in them:

that from the time of the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem; this commandment is the beginning of the seventy weeks or four hundred and ninety years, and from it they are to be reckoned; and which designs not the proclamation of Cyrus in the first year of his reign, which was only to rebuild the temple, and not the city of Jerusalem, Ezra 1:1, nor the decree of Darius Hystaspes, which also only regards the temple, and is only a confirmation of the decree of Cyrus, Ezra 6:1 and for the same reasons it cannot be the decree in the seventh year of the reign of Artaxerxes; which only confirmed what his predecessors had granted concerning the temple, and provision for sacrifices, and exemption of the priests from toll, tribute, or custom, Ezra 7:7, but has not a word of building the wall and streets of Jerusalem, as that has, which was made in the twentieth year of his reign; and seems therefore to be the commandment or decree here referred to, Nehemiah 2:1, and this is the general epoch of the seventy weeks, and where the first seven begin; though Gussetius (a) thinks that the word does not signify any edict or decree, but a "thing"; and designs the thing itself, restoring and rebuilding Jerusalem; and that the following date is to be reckoned, not from any order to rebuild that city, but from the thing itself, from the moment when it first began to be rebuilt: and as singular is the notion of Tirinus (b), who is of opinion that this is to be understood of the going out, or the end of the word; not whereby the holy city was ordered to be built, but when it was really built; and so begins the account from the dedication of the new city, in the twenty third year of Artaxerxes, Nehemiah 12:27. There are others who suppose that not any human word, decree, commandment, or order, is here meant, but a divine one; either the word of the Lord to Jeremiah, foretelling the seventy years' captivity of the Jews, and their deliverance from it; and reckon these four hundred and ninety years from the destruction of the first temple, to the destruction of the second temple, as Jarchi, Saadiah, Jacchiades, and others; but between these two destructions was a course of six hundred and fifty six or six hundred and fifty seven years: others take the beginning of the seventy weeks to be from the going forth of the commandment to the angel, at the beginning of Daniel's prayers, as Aben Ezra; and to end at the destruction of the second temple; but, for a like reason, this must be rejected as the other; since this space of time will outrun the seventy weeks near one hundred and twenty years: it is best therefore to interpret this of a royal edict, the order or commandment of a king of Persia to rebuild Jerusalem; and it seems correct to reckon the number given, either from the seventh, or rather from the twentieth, of Artaxerxes Longimanus before mentioned; and either these reckonings, as Bishop Chandler (c) observes, are sufficient for our purpose, to show the completion of the prophecy in Christ:
MHz

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Re: Some thoughts on Jews
.... which they cant do because they follow roman maritime UCC law, like every other UN nation.
 Quoting: Dreamily Resonant VIP

I thought that only went down the chain of command as far as business owners went. during a declared time of Admiralty Law all rights civilians were ever granter ed are expired ans all good that businesses have now being to the 'authorities'.
The UN Human Rights type of documents cover civil law and rights for the poorest in society, 'consumers' mean next to nothing in Admiralty Law and it is their rights than vanish first.

That is universal in it's application is it not?

Last Edited by MHz on 10/16/2013 02:48 PM
Montclair de Rallo-Tubbs
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Re: Some thoughts on Jews
Ok I'll pre-empt so that maybe people can learn from my mistak.
Does the 2 black bar have anything to do with the law?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48436391


I was given a more abstract interpretation. the jews are in the middle bound by the laws - upper of the universal soul, lower of the severity of nature.
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Re: Some thoughts on Jews
I am waiting for you to answer my questions.
Dreamily Resonant VIP

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Re: Some thoughts on Jews
The missionaries) Compress two periods of time (in Daniel 9) into one period of time. This is the major problem with the King James Version / KJV (translation of Daniel 9).


The KJV takes 7 weeks and 62 weeks and compresses it into 69 weeks -- which is a total distortion.


The passage in Daniel says that an anointed prince (moshiach nagid) will come after 7 weeks (49 years). After this there are 62 weeks (434 years) and a second anointed person appears and that one is cut off.


A question


The Rabbi wrote "we like to ask Chrstian missionaries speaking of Daniel 9 is "who are the TWO messiahs being spoken of here?"


The first one after 49 years (7 weeks)

The second one after 434 years (62 weeks) who will be cut off.


The KJV makes it seem as if there is only ONE messiah and that he will be cut off after 483 years.


If it were 69 Hebrew would say "69" (sixty + nine). Daniel 9 says "7 and 62" (seven yeas and sixty-two years). They are obviously two distinct time frames, not one time frame. But the Chrstian translators are trying to make Daniel 9 seem to be about only one messiah (when it really speaks of two messiahs / anointed ones) and one time frame leading up to the death of Jsus instead of two separate time frames and two separate anointed ones. Thus they speak of 69 years and not seven years and sixty-two years.


The King James ignores the Hebrew grammar in Daniel 9 which very clearly tells us the seven years and the sixty-two years are two time frames. "Shavuim shiva" (7 weeks) has an etnach punctuation mark after it:


"7 weeks;"


An etnach is a mid-verse pause. A break in the flow of the text. An etnach is a Hebrew version of a semicolon or a break (similar to a period it puts a "stop" after a word). The King James totally ignores the etnach! The etnach makes it clear that there is a BREAK after the 7 weeks and before the 62 weeks -- it is dishonest to lump them together as "69 weeks."


The KJV puts the semicolon after the 69 weeks, not between the 7 weeks ; (etnach) and 62 weeks. This is either very sloppy translating, or far more likely -- total dishonesty to make the case for Jsus by mistranslating the text.


Look at verse 26 next. It proves the 62 weeks is a completely separate time frame from the first 7 weeks.


"And after 3 score and 2 weeks"


In line 25 the KJV translators inserted the definitive article "the" in front of "Messiah" even though it does not occur in the text. Now the KJV leaves out the definite article "the" which is IN the Hebrew):


after the sixty-two weeks this anointed one is cut off (Daniel 9:26)


Having added "the" to messiah they ignore "the" when it relates to the 62 weeks! They are trying to avoid the fact that "THE 62 weeks" are completely separate from the first 7? After all Daniel 9 does not say "after the 69 weeks," but "after THE 62 weeks"!


There are no 69 weeks, there are 7 weeks and 62 weeks. There is not one time frame, but two.


There is not one "the Messiah," but two separate anointed ones: the first is an anointed prince (moshiach nagid) who will arrive after the first 7 weeks (49 years) and the second is simply "an anointed one" who will be cut off after 62 weeks (434 years).

Then Daniel 9 says that after the second messiah is cut off the Temple will be destroyed. Yet, per Chrstians Jsus died 40 years before the Temple was destroyed (4 1/2 weeks in Daniel's dating). Why is there a "4 1/2 year gap" between Jsus' supposed death and the destruction of the Temple? Daniel 9 says the Temple will be destroyed after the second messiah is cut off.


Another problem with the Chrstian POV is that in the beginning of Daniel 9 it says (25)


Know and comprehend: From the emergence of the word to return and to build Jerusalem until the anointment of the prince will be seven septets


Chrstians like to date the "emergence of the word to return and to build Jerusalem" to King Artaxerxes of Persia (444 BCE). The counting begins with the "emergence of the word to rebuild Jerusalem."


Chrstians add 69 weeks of years (483 years) to the year 444 BCE and you come out to the year 39 of the common era. Even if you want to stretch things it is a bit too late for Jsus.


Chrstians say Jsus may have died in the year 31, 32 or even 33 of the common era (CE), but no Chrstians claim Jsus died in the year 39 CE!


So what do Chrstians do with the extra 7 years? How do they get rid of these 7 years?


They claim that in the Bible there are two kinds of years a solar year of 365 1/4 days and a prophetic years of 360 days.


Next the missionaries say Daniel was speaking of prophetic years (not solar years).


Having decided Daniel mean "prophetic years of 360 days" the missionaries take the 360 days and multiply them by 483 years (ignoring again the 7 years and 62 years, but lumping them together as 69 years) and this gives them 173,880 days of prophetic years.


360 x 483 = 173,800 days of prophetic years.


Now, this still doesn't get them to the right date for Jsus.


What to do? What to do?


Ah! Let's divide the prophetic years by 365 1/4 days to get them back to solar years!


Why?


Why not! Maybe the math will "work"!


So missionaries take the 173,880 days they got from the already weird math and convert them back to solar years by dividing 173,880 days by 365 1/4 days.


173,800 divided by 365 1/4 = 476 years.


Ah! This is looking better for Jsus. If it wasn't they'd no doubt come back with yet another type of year: maybe the "black hole year"? Maybe the "oh heck that didn't work year"?


At any rate this machination with prophetic years multiplied and solar years divided gives them 476 years.


Magically if you add 476 years + 444 BCE = 32 CE!


Fantastic! We got within shouting distance of Jsus supposed death!


I'm sure if magically it did not add up to 32 CE they would have added yet another mathematical step to somehow get to the right year!


But all this strange math of prophetic years divided by solar years and then adding 476 years to 444 BCE to get to 32 of the common era is seen as not only logical (rather than amazing gymnastics), but pointed to with pride as proving Daniel 9 was talking about Jsus.


This is called the fudge factor. This is fudging your numbers. This is stretching things out of whack like silly putty!


There is an even bigger problem than mathematical gymnastics.


It is all a pack of lies.


There is no such thing as a solar year in Judaism or a prophetic year. There never has been.


All this mathematical gymnastics is all made up. The 360 day "prophetic year" was actually a Chrstian invention from the 19th century (not that long ago).


There is no such thing in the bible as a prophetic year. There is no such concept. It was a desperate attempt to fix the math problem of Daniel's numbers ending too late for Jesus.

Jews use a combined lunar / solar calendar. A lunar calendar loses 11 days against a solar calendar. Some Jewish holidays are specified as being in the Spring (such as Passover) so every three years we add a leap year (approximately). Chrstians ignore Jewish dating and make up fake solar years and prophetic years that never existed.


Chrstians use circular reasoning in Daniel 9. They have to fit Jsus' into Daniel 9 so they do mathematical machinations to force fit Jsus into the timing. They have to reconstruct Jsus' life to the chronology of Daniel.


Remember that Chrstians start their dating with Artaxerxes "decree to rebuild Jerusalem." In reality there were four people who issued decrees to rebuild Jerusalem. Nehemiah tells us (chapter 2) that Artaxerxes decreed to rebuild Jerusalem. There was another decree given to Ezra (Artaxerxes) and then a degree of Darius and another from Cyrus.


So why do the Chrstians pick the decree of Artaxerxes to Nehemiah? Because they think it FITS JSUS. They simply ignore the other decrees!


As we showed it doesn't really fit him (39 CE, not 31, 32 or 33 CE).


But Daniel cannot be referring to Artaxerxes. Daniel speaks of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem.


Artaxerxes never gave Nehemiah a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem. The city was already rebuilt and restored by the time Nehemiah asked Artaxerxes for a decree for a safe passage to Judah. The Samaritans who were living in Jerusalem tried to stop the Jews from returning. So Nehemiah got permission from Artaxerxes to send people back to Israel to simply repair some breaches in the walls of Jerusalem.


It is counter intuitive to maintain that Daniel is giving us the exact year that the messiah would be killed. There is no reason for the bible to tell us when. It would paint G-d into a box hundreds of years before the event, meaning man has no free will and history is "pre-written." In Genesis 49 Jacob wanted to reveal the end of days to his sons and we're told G-d would not allow him to reveal the end times to his children. Jacob never revealed this.


In the Book of Daniel the possibility of Daniel being told when the messianic age will begin and he is told to "seal the book until the end of time" (Daniel 12). When Daniel does talk about the messianic age it tells us not to reveal when it is going to happen!

The New Testament does not mention Daniel 9 even ONCE. If Daniel 9 were a messianic prophecy you would expect the New Testament to quote Daniel 9. This indicates that it is not a messianic prophecy. None of the early church fathers bring up Daniel 9 as a messianic proof text either (think of Justin Martyr's "Discussions with Trypho the Jew" to prove that Jsus was the messiah and out of this very long book Daniel 9 is not quoted even once).


Moshe Rosen (founder of Jews for Jsus) wrote a book giving a complete list of Jewish prophecies (61 he claimed) that Jsus was the messiah, and he does not mention Daniel 9 either.


To understand Daniel 9 we have to read it IN CONTEXT. Missionaries jump right down to Daniel 9:25 ignoring the first 24 lines! This is the third weakness of the missionaries thinking (mistranslations and circular reasoning being the other two).


Daniel 9 gives us a time line in the first verse.


9:2 In the first year of his (Darius) reign, I, Daniel, contemplated the calculations, the number of years about which the word of HaShem had come to the prophet Jeremiah, to complete the seventy years since the ruin of Jerusalem. 2. I set my face toward the L-rd, G-d, to beseech (with) prayer and supplication, with fasting, sackcloth and ashes.


Darius the Mede (Jewish year 3389) who just conquered the Babylonian. Why is Daniel bothered by something that the angel had to come and explain to him?


Daniel was trying to figure out the number of years that the devastation of Jerusalem had to have happened per the prophecy of Jeremiah. Read Jeremiah 25 and 29.


In chapter 25 Jeremiah said "and this whole land shall be in desolation" (for 70 years) "when 70 years are accomplished I shall punish the King of Babylon. . .and make it perpetual desolation."


Then in chapter 29 Jeremiah said:


For thus said HaShem: After seventy years are accomplished for Babylon, I will remember you, and perform My good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place.


Daniel is thinking "the Babylonians have been destroyed" (year 3389, 70 years after the conquest of Judah)." Daniel assumed the 70 years began with the subjugation of the Jews and that Jeremiah's prophecy of 70 years is "up."

The second prophecy of Jeremiah says the Jews will go back to Judah (Israel).


The main topic of Daniel 9 is his pain at the destruction of the Temple. What Daniel is bothered by is that one part of the prophecy came true (the Babylonians have been deposed) but the second part, the rebuilding of the Temple, has not happened. It is one year from where he sat (3389). But there were no Jews in Israel one year before the 70th year -- so how could Jeremiah's prophecy that the Temple would be rebuilt by 3390 when there were no Jews in Israel (Judah)?


Daniel was confused because he thought Jeremiah had made one prophecy and that they both had the same starting date. Daniel was nervous that the Temple was not going to be rebuilt and that G-d was going to cancel the promise to rebuild the Temple.


Daniel then prays to G-d to rebuild Jerusalem and the Temple, even though the people have sinned.


O L-rd, hear; O L-rd, forgive; O L-rd, hearken and do, do not delay; for Your sake, my G-d, for Your Name is called upon Your city and upon Your people." Daniel 9:19


Then the angel Gavriel comes and tells Daniel. This is when 9:25 tells us that the 70 weeks (of years) of the Babylonian exile -- Gavriel tells Daniel that the first prophecy was 70 years of subjugation of Israel, but the return to Israel begins from the destruction of the Temple (which was 18 years after the Jews were sent into exile). The year 3338 was when the destruction of the Temple happened. 3408 is when the Temple was complete and built -- 70 years as prophecied.


So it is from the destruction of Jerusalem, not from the exile -- so Daniel's concern about the Temple being rebuilt was off by 18 years.


Daniel 9:25 says "you shall know and comprehend from the word to rebuild Jerusalem" (the word is d'var, translated as "word", not "command" as many Chrstians including the KJV translate it. The word for "command" in Hebrew is mitzvah, not d'var).


There is a second reason the starting point cannot be Artaxerxes as the Chrstians like to state. Daniel is sitting in the year 3389 / 90. The angel Gavriel is going to "make Daniel wise" how could Daniel know that sometime in the future there is going to be a decree to rebuild Jerusalem -- Daniel would not be any wiser. He would know nothing more than he did before the angel told him anything.


If the starting point for the count down is some indefinite time after Daniel is sitting with the angel the message is meaningless to him. Clearly the starting point must be some time before 3389 so Daniel can count "7 weeks of years" and then he will know what the angel is saying.


And he enabled me to understand, and he spoke with me, and he said, "Daniel, now I have come forth to make you skillful in understanding. Daniel 9:22


Daniel needs to start counting the 49 years at some point. Is it the year 444 of the common era which is long past his death?? How does that make any sense at all? How does that make Daniel "skillful in understanding"?


From the Chrstian understanding if they starting counting from 444 BCE Daniel knows nothing more than he did before the angel spoke to him, putting lie to what the angel told Daniel (that he would be able to understand!).


The angel says there is a d'var (a word) concerning the rebuilding of Jerusalem. That is the word of Jeremiah. Daniel is being told that 7 weeks from the destruction of Jerusalem (49 years) an anointed prince will come.


Daniel wants to know WHEN WILL THE TEMPLE BE REBUILT? If Artaxerxes were the starting point Daniel would have been long dead and would not have understood anything.

also it says that the A messiah is cut off! cut off is always used in regards of wicked people!
Montclair de Rallo-Tubbs
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10/16/2013 02:50 PM
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Re: Some thoughts on Jews
or one bar was right and the other left
Anonymous Coward
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10/16/2013 02:51 PM
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Re: Some thoughts on Jews
The missionaries) Compress two periods of time (in Daniel 9) into one period of time. This is the major problem with the King James Version / KJV (translation of Daniel 9).


The KJV takes 7 weeks and 62 weeks and compresses it into 69 weeks -- which is a total distortion.


The passage in Daniel says that an anointed prince (moshiach nagid) will come after 7 weeks (49 years). After this there are 62 weeks (434 years) and a second anointed person appears and that one is cut off.


A question


The Rabbi wrote "we like to ask Chrstian missionaries speaking of Daniel 9 is "who are the TWO messiahs being spoken of here?"


The first one after 49 years (7 weeks)

The second one after 434 years (62 weeks) who will be cut off.


The KJV makes it seem as if there is only ONE messiah and that he will be cut off after 483 years.


If it were 69 Hebrew would say "69" (sixty + nine). Daniel 9 says "7 and 62" (seven yeas and sixty-two years). They are obviously two distinct time frames, not one time frame. But the Chrstian translators are trying to make Daniel 9 seem to be about only one messiah (when it really speaks of two messiahs / anointed ones) and one time frame leading up to the death of Jsus instead of two separate time frames and two separate anointed ones. Thus they speak of 69 years and not seven years and sixty-two years.


The King James ignores the Hebrew grammar in Daniel 9 which very clearly tells us the seven years and the sixty-two years are two time frames. "Shavuim shiva" (7 weeks) has an etnach punctuation mark after it:


"7 weeks;"


An etnach is a mid-verse pause. A break in the flow of the text. An etnach is a Hebrew version of a semicolon or a break (similar to a period it puts a "stop" after a word). The King James totally ignores the etnach! The etnach makes it clear that there is a BREAK after the 7 weeks and before the 62 weeks -- it is dishonest to lump them together as "69 weeks."


The KJV puts the semicolon after the 69 weeks, not between the 7 weeks ; (etnach) and 62 weeks. This is either very sloppy translating, or far more likely -- total dishonesty to make the case for Jsus by mistranslating the text.


Look at verse 26 next. It proves the 62 weeks is a completely separate time frame from the first 7 weeks.


"And after 3 score and 2 weeks"


In line 25 the KJV translators inserted the definitive article "the" in front of "Messiah" even though it does not occur in the text. Now the KJV leaves out the definite article "the" which is IN the Hebrew):


after the sixty-two weeks this anointed one is cut off (Daniel 9:26)


Having added "the" to messiah they ignore "the" when it relates to the 62 weeks! They are trying to avoid the fact that "THE 62 weeks" are completely separate from the first 7? After all Daniel 9 does not say "after the 69 weeks," but "after THE 62 weeks"!


There are no 69 weeks, there are 7 weeks and 62 weeks. There is not one time frame, but two.


There is not one "the Messiah," but two separate anointed ones: the first is an anointed prince (moshiach nagid) who will arrive after the first 7 weeks (49 years) and the second is simply "an anointed one" who will be cut off after 62 weeks (434 years).

Then Daniel 9 says that after the second messiah is cut off the Temple will be destroyed. Yet, per Chrstians Jsus died 40 years before the Temple was destroyed (4 1/2 weeks in Daniel's dating). Why is there a "4 1/2 year gap" between Jsus' supposed death and the destruction of the Temple? Daniel 9 says the Temple will be destroyed after the second messiah is cut off.


Another problem with the Chrstian POV is that in the beginning of Daniel 9 it says (25)


Know and comprehend: From the emergence of the word to return and to build Jerusalem until the anointment of the prince will be seven septets


Chrstians like to date the "emergence of the word to return and to build Jerusalem" to King Artaxerxes of Persia (444 BCE). The counting begins with the "emergence of the word to rebuild Jerusalem."


Chrstians add 69 weeks of years (483 years) to the year 444 BCE and you come out to the year 39 of the common era. Even if you want to stretch things it is a bit too late for Jsus.


Chrstians say Jsus may have died in the year 31, 32 or even 33 of the common era (CE), but no Chrstians claim Jsus died in the year 39 CE!


So what do Chrstians do with the extra 7 years? How do they get rid of these 7 years?


They claim that in the Bible there are two kinds of years a solar year of 365 1/4 days and a prophetic years of 360 days.


Next the missionaries say Daniel was speaking of prophetic years (not solar years).


Having decided Daniel mean "prophetic years of 360 days" the missionaries take the 360 days and multiply them by 483 years (ignoring again the 7 years and 62 years, but lumping them together as 69 years) and this gives them 173,880 days of prophetic years.


360 x 483 = 173,800 days of prophetic years.


Now, this still doesn't get them to the right date for Jsus.


What to do? What to do?


Ah! Let's divide the prophetic years by 365 1/4 days to get them back to solar years!


Why?


Why not! Maybe the math will "work"!


So missionaries take the 173,880 days they got from the already weird math and convert them back to solar years by dividing 173,880 days by 365 1/4 days.


173,800 divided by 365 1/4 = 476 years.


Ah! This is looking better for Jsus. If it wasn't they'd no doubt come back with yet another type of year: maybe the "black hole year"? Maybe the "oh heck that didn't work year"?


At any rate this machination with prophetic years multiplied and solar years divided gives them 476 years.


Magically if you add 476 years + 444 BCE = 32 CE!


Fantastic! We got within shouting distance of Jsus supposed death!


I'm sure if magically it did not add up to 32 CE they would have added yet another mathematical step to somehow get to the right year!


But all this strange math of prophetic years divided by solar years and then adding 476 years to 444 BCE to get to 32 of the common era is seen as not only logical (rather than amazing gymnastics), but pointed to with pride as proving Daniel 9 was talking about Jsus.


This is called the fudge factor. This is fudging your numbers. This is stretching things out of whack like silly putty!


There is an even bigger problem than mathematical gymnastics.


It is all a pack of lies.


There is no such thing as a solar year in Judaism or a prophetic year. There never has been.


All this mathematical gymnastics is all made up. The 360 day "prophetic year" was actually a Chrstian invention from the 19th century (not that long ago).


There is no such thing in the bible as a prophetic year. There is no such concept. It was a desperate attempt to fix the math problem of Daniel's numbers ending too late for Jesus.

Jews use a combined lunar / solar calendar. A lunar calendar loses 11 days against a solar calendar. Some Jewish holidays are specified as being in the Spring (such as Passover) so every three years we add a leap year (approximately). Chrstians ignore Jewish dating and make up fake solar years and prophetic years that never existed.


Chrstians use circular reasoning in Daniel 9. They have to fit Jsus' into Daniel 9 so they do mathematical machinations to force fit Jsus into the timing. They have to reconstruct Jsus' life to the chronology of Daniel.


Remember that Chrstians start their dating with Artaxerxes "decree to rebuild Jerusalem." In reality there were four people who issued decrees to rebuild Jerusalem. Nehemiah tells us (chapter 2) that Artaxerxes decreed to rebuild Jerusalem. There was another decree given to Ezra (Artaxerxes) and then a degree of Darius and another from Cyrus.


So why do the Chrstians pick the decree of Artaxerxes to Nehemiah? Because they think it FITS JSUS. They simply ignore the other decrees!


As we showed it doesn't really fit him (39 CE, not 31, 32 or 33 CE).


But Daniel cannot be referring to Artaxerxes. Daniel speaks of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem.


Artaxerxes never gave Nehemiah a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem. The city was already rebuilt and restored by the time Nehemiah asked Artaxerxes for a decree for a safe passage to Judah. The Samaritans who were living in Jerusalem tried to stop the Jews from returning. So Nehemiah got permission from Artaxerxes to send people back to Israel to simply repair some breaches in the walls of Jerusalem.


It is counter intuitive to maintain that Daniel is giving us the exact year that the messiah would be killed. There is no reason for the bible to tell us when. It would paint G-d into a box hundreds of years before the event, meaning man has no free will and history is "pre-written." In Genesis 49 Jacob wanted to reveal the end of days to his sons and we're told G-d would not allow him to reveal the end times to his children. Jacob never revealed this.


In the Book of Daniel the possibility of Daniel being told when the messianic age will begin and he is told to "seal the book until the end of time" (Daniel 12). When Daniel does talk about the messianic age it tells us not to reveal when it is going to happen!

The New Testament does not mention Daniel 9 even ONCE. If Daniel 9 were a messianic prophecy you would expect the New Testament to quote Daniel 9. This indicates that it is not a messianic prophecy. None of the early church fathers bring up Daniel 9 as a messianic proof text either (think of Justin Martyr's "Discussions with Trypho the Jew" to prove that Jsus was the messiah and out of this very long book Daniel 9 is not quoted even once).


Moshe Rosen (founder of Jews for Jsus) wrote a book giving a complete list of Jewish prophecies (61 he claimed) that Jsus was the messiah, and he does not mention Daniel 9 either.


To understand Daniel 9 we have to read it IN CONTEXT. Missionaries jump right down to Daniel 9:25 ignoring the first 24 lines! This is the third weakness of the missionaries thinking (mistranslations and circular reasoning being the other two).


Daniel 9 gives us a time line in the first verse.


9:2 In the first year of his (Darius) reign, I, Daniel, contemplated the calculations, the number of years about which the word of HaShem had come to the prophet Jeremiah, to complete the seventy years since the ruin of Jerusalem. 2. I set my face toward the L-rd, G-d, to beseech (with) prayer and supplication, with fasting, sackcloth and ashes.


Darius the Mede (Jewish year 3389) who just conquered the Babylonian. Why is Daniel bothered by something that the angel had to come and explain to him?


Daniel was trying to figure out the number of years that the devastation of Jerusalem had to have happened per the prophecy of Jeremiah. Read Jeremiah 25 and 29.


In chapter 25 Jeremiah said "and this whole land shall be in desolation" (for 70 years) "when 70 years are accomplished I shall punish the King of Babylon. . .and make it perpetual desolation."


Then in chapter 29 Jeremiah said:


For thus said HaShem: After seventy years are accomplished for Babylon, I will remember you, and perform My good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place.


Daniel is thinking "the Babylonians have been destroyed" (year 3389, 70 years after the conquest of Judah)." Daniel assumed the 70 years began with the subjugation of the Jews and that Jeremiah's prophecy of 70 years is "up."

The second prophecy of Jeremiah says the Jews will go back to Judah (Israel).


The main topic of Daniel 9 is his pain at the destruction of the Temple. What Daniel is bothered by is that one part of the prophecy came true (the Babylonians have been deposed) but the second part, the rebuilding of the Temple, has not happened. It is one year from where he sat (3389). But there were no Jews in Israel one year before the 70th year -- so how could Jeremiah's prophecy that the Temple would be rebuilt by 3390 when there were no Jews in Israel (Judah)?


Daniel was confused because he thought Jeremiah had made one prophecy and that they both had the same starting date. Daniel was nervous that the Temple was not going to be rebuilt and that G-d was going to cancel the promise to rebuild the Temple.


Daniel then prays to G-d to rebuild Jerusalem and the Temple, even though the people have sinned.


O L-rd, hear; O L-rd, forgive; O L-rd, hearken and do, do not delay; for Your sake, my G-d, for Your Name is called upon Your city and upon Your people." Daniel 9:19


Then the angel Gavriel comes and tells Daniel. This is when 9:25 tells us that the 70 weeks (of years) of the Babylonian exile -- Gavriel tells Daniel that the first prophecy was 70 years of subjugation of Israel, but the return to Israel begins from the destruction of the Temple (which was 18 years after the Jews were sent into exile). The year 3338 was when the destruction of the Temple happened. 3408 is when the Temple was complete and built -- 70 years as prophecied.


So it is from the destruction of Jerusalem, not from the exile -- so Daniel's concern about the Temple being rebuilt was off by 18 years.


Daniel 9:25 says "you shall know and comprehend from the word to rebuild Jerusalem" (the word is d'var, translated as "word", not "command" as many Chrstians including the KJV translate it. The word for "command" in Hebrew is mitzvah, not d'var).


There is a second reason the starting point cannot be Artaxerxes as the Chrstians like to state. Daniel is sitting in the year 3389 / 90. The angel Gavriel is going to "make Daniel wise" how could Daniel know that sometime in the future there is going to be a decree to rebuild Jerusalem -- Daniel would not be any wiser. He would know nothing more than he did before the angel told him anything.


If the starting point for the count down is some indefinite time after Daniel is sitting with the angel the message is meaningless to him. Clearly the starting point must be some time before 3389 so Daniel can count "7 weeks of years" and then he will know what the angel is saying.


And he enabled me to understand, and he spoke with me, and he said, "Daniel, now I have come forth to make you skillful in understanding. Daniel 9:22


Daniel needs to start counting the 49 years at some point. Is it the year 444 of the common era which is long past his death?? How does that make any sense at all? How does that make Daniel "skillful in understanding"?


From the Chrstian understanding if they starting counting from 444 BCE Daniel knows nothing more than he did before the angel spoke to him, putting lie to what the angel told Daniel (that he would be able to understand!).


The angel says there is a d'var (a word) concerning the rebuilding of Jerusalem. That is the word of Jeremiah. Daniel is being told that 7 weeks from the destruction of Jerusalem (49 years) an anointed prince will come.


Daniel wants to know WHEN WILL THE TEMPLE BE REBUILT? If Artaxerxes were the starting point Daniel would have been long dead and would not have understood anything.

also it says that the A messiah is cut off! cut off is always used in regards of wicked people!
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