GUYS, is there a REALISTIC chance that the HOUSE WON'T PASS the deal today?

Under the Articles of Confederation maybe, not under the U.S. Constitution. The U.S. Constitution explicitly states that federal authority supersedes that of the states.

Yup, we need to get back to the roots of the country. De-centralize the shit out of E V E R Y T H I N G.

Think small.....

Right, that's what the civil war was about.

No, that is an ongoing battle of interpretation. To what extent does the Federal government supersede the states - to the point of crushing them and all the people that live in them? I don't think so. We need to get BACK to a loosely knit confederation of states with a DECENTRALIZED Federal government that has limited authority. It's not what's in the Constitution that's the problem, but how it's been interpreted by power grabbers over the now, 2 centuries.

So, in trying to be RATIONAL about all this....

IF they vote to kick this down the road, and then comes February, and we go through all this again....

We will be CLOSER to the mid-term elections....that - I'M HOPING - everyone will then REMEMBER TO VOTE THE BUMS O-U-T!

GUYS, is there a REALISTIC chance that the HOUSE WON'T PASS the deal today?

No.

That's not entirely accurate.

Federal authority only supersedes the states for the things that the Constitution explicitly grants. Everything else is reserved to the states.

Its gonna pass....just kicking the can down the road til the holidays are over....after all whats a couple more trillion between friend?

Watched the morning briefing with Jay Carney (Guys who worked carn-e-vals were called "Carney's" weren't they?) and was amazed at what I heard and saw. He had no announcement so he went directly to questions. He said, "I already know what questions you will ask...", acting like it was funny, but his answer to the first question asked he read from a prepared SCRIPT in front of him! At least three other questions he was asked he responded to by reading from a SCRIPT sitting on the podium in front of him! The whole press conference appeared to be an ACT!

I haven't read most of the Constitution in a while and I should go back and do so, but if I remember (and understand correctly) I believe the role of the Federal government was to be the mediator between the states in areas - such as interstate commerce - where there could be discrepancies and conflict might be created. I think the intent was to create a Federal structure that would smooth the relations between states with varying laws and cultures and act as a mediator, NOT to create a completely centralized Federal government that dictates to the states on all matters and controls most of their functons. Over the past two hundred years, esp since the CW, the Feds have usurped and assumed greater and greater power esp through the development of agencies and the practice of income taxation to redistribute wealth among the states thus creating both state (and private citizen) dependencies. Like a nation of heroin addicts but the addiction is federal money instead. So the Feds get power and gravy from all that fake money flowing through the system.

This bullshit needs to stop and the Feds need to be de-centralized, all these agencies need to be eliminated, the income tax needs to GO AWAY, the Federal Reserve needs to be eliminated, and the power go back to real people IN THE STATES....which should also be able to leave the Union whenever a majority of the people in the state want and plan to! That is how a functioning government might work on this continent. Otherwise we just have the disaster that we have which doesn't work.....BECAUSE IT CAN'T.

Nope...they will cave.

You mean they don't let just any old "journalist" extra film the White House Press Conference scene? I AM SHOCKED AT THIS REVELATION.

WOW that is some childish shIT

:stockspike:

True, but the General Welfare clause is a caveat. It states, "The Congress shall have Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States". General Welfare is obviously open to broad interpretation. In fact, the founders themselves couldn't agree on the authority granted to the federal government by this clause. Madison said it applies only to the powers outlined in article 1 section 8. Hamilton insisted it granted the federal government to use any resources available to it to promote the general welfare of the nation however it see fit.

It is predetermined that we shall squabble over the authority of the federal government in perpetuity, in my opinion, if the founders were unable to agree upon a universal understanding of the authority as it was being written.

Saw that... had examples of suffering Americans needing healthcare only Obamacare will help.

That is an excellent point, but in practice it probably means that the states get the freedom that they can ensure through the peaceful resistance, or arms if necessary, of their people - as what else does freedom in its most basic form derive from? We can say it's from God, but I don't remember him shouldering a musket for any side.

They are senators. Not representatives.

any smart person would know it wont pass the house.

Conservative Organization Urges 'No' Vote On Senate Compromise
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Club for Growth, the conservative advocacy group, is telling House Republicans not to vote for the Senate’s compromise. As the conservative group Heritage Action did yesterday, Club for Growth is marking this vote a “key vote” on Representatives’ legislative scorecards:

This announced plan, the details of which aren’t completely known, appears to have little to no reforms in it. There are no significant changes to ObamaCare, nothing on the other major entitlements that are racked with trillions in unfunded liabilities, and no meaningful spending cuts either. If this bill passes, Congress will kick the can down the road, yet again.

Our Congressional Scorecard for the 113th Congress provides a comprehensive rating of how well or how poorly each member of Congress supports pro-growth, free-market policies and will be distributed to our members and to the public.

Heritage’s opposition yesterday seemingly blew up an emerging House compromise. The implications of Club for Growth’s opposition aren’t yet clear

I am smart, and I am praying it will.

Seriously, I want the government to start back up. I don't want to see innocent people suffer under any circumstances.

I love this forum, but I worry about the souls of those here.

I think people miss the bigger picture.

If this govt continues in the manner it is, we will ALL suffer, greatly.

I never wish ill will on anyone, but honestly some one needs to take a stand.

Those innocent people you claim to care about are going to be hurt far worse in the future if this debt scheme is allowed to continue.

Awesome

suffer now or suffer later.....I would just soon get it over with, so my kids won't have to deal with it when they get older!

If I'm not mistaken we no longer allow 3rd parties. Something about the primary and Ron Paul getting more votes than they were comfortable with, it was fixed so that now you may only vote for the 2 parties?

Well since you don't want them to suffer go take your time, your money, your resources to go help ALL OF THEM. Stop forcing me to pay taxes to help people i don't know, love nor care about.