Jesus Christ Showed Us The Way To The Father

Hi OP,

Yes it all boils down to LOVE, for sure....

We love for HE first loved us....enough to step down from His throne, become flesh, and die for our sins.

Blessings

You force me to be brave and step out feeling very vulnerable like I am baring my heart for all to see lol.

It is not just one passage. For me knowledge is like a scale I have considered your beliefs, looked and researched as we all do trying to find the truth.
For me knowledge goes hand in hand with belief. While some beliefs in our faith are fairly blind and trusting they dont all have to be. So many times through this journey
you find yourself defaulting unable to understand or grasp. Some of the true nature of God is unable to be understood, sealed up until the end of time when we will intamatly
be presented with all of it. It was never our purpose to fully understand an infallable God with our fallable and limited nature. So my personal marker to myself when
I cannot find the answers, my light that guides me is a very simple one. Where is the love? Can you see it? Does is shine? And does it speak to you on a basic level, not the
level of your carnal mind but the radar of your heart. From your heart is where you start.

We have two of the best tools in the world from which to form our faith. A personal relationship with God who will bridge the gaps in your understanding and show you the markers along the way when you struggle. Secondly our hearts. It is from this that anything I profess from my mind as knowledge or understanding comes from. For me it is like a scale find the love in it and then from your knowledge and relationship place it on a scale and test it. What starts as a question or a basic wondering is placed on the scales
and God and your heart will tip them to one side or the other. This is my love language, I am by know means intellegent or special, i am a sinner and I do it every single day, but I am patient and I hope from my time here and the time I have spent teaching if nothing else shines through I would hope that my patience, compassion and mercy will, but this is my life and I do not teach or speak of anything for which the scales have not tipped one way or the other simply because I know the limits of my intelligence and my depth of understanding is very small. I will explore things with like minded people but I do not sit firmly in anything minus the blessing of God and I for sure would not spread what i do not feel I really know.

I would ask you what appeals to your heart? What is your love language and what tips the scales of knowledge into understanding for you. Knowing this is key for yourself because that
is what allows you to sit firmly in your beliefs and not waver so much.


So with that said i will appeal to you as best I can scripturally and hope that you can see the measure of my heart and understanding. And with God's blessing why I believe what I do. Test my wings
and see if I can fly again :-)

There are 2 primary purposes of Jesus in the bible extolition and exaltation, one followed by another and it is the playing out between these two that His deity is found.
The primary purpose of Jesus was never to extol Himself as God although at certain points He did it was not His main role.
And this is where the statement that He never proclaimed Himself as God stems from.

His plan of salvation (Primary purpose or extolition)laid out in Isaiah 59:16-17
16 He saw that there was no man,
And wondered that there was no intercessor;
Therefore His own arm brought salvation for Him;
And His own righteousness, it sustained Him.
17 For He put on righteousness as a breastplate,
And a helmet of salvation on His head;
He put on the garments of vengeance for clothing,
And was clad with zeal as a cloak.

and his exaltation-
Acts 2:33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit,
He poured out this which you now see and hear.

I believe without a showdow of doubt:
1. Jesus was God before His phsical manifestation here on Earth
2.He was God as He walked in a role as man here on earth
3. He continues to be and always will be God
4. He never gave up His deity while He walked here on earth- meaning He was never JUST a man
Psalm 49 No man can redeem the life of another or give to God a ransom for him


John 14:6-I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me

He is the narrow door this addresses the image place up earlier of the walls with all the different ways people try to obtain salvation and the statement that deeds and works will never be enough minus Christ

Luke 13
And He went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem.
23 Then one said to Him, “Lord, are there few who are saved?”And He said to them,
24 “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
25 When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,’ and He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know you, where you are from,’
26 then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.’
27 But He will say, ‘I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.

5. That while separate unique identities since the dawn of creation in the end they will become One or as the bible state All in All. The uniqueness of the wording in this one particular passage aludes that Jesus was in fact separated out being the first fruits and intending to the purpose from the beginning of time that Jesus was a part
of God separate and unique formed from a knowing since the beginning and a need for humanity a "man" purer and held above all other men in perfection for sacrifice. HE
knows the light and He creates the darkness. Creating free will and knowing the possibility and all possibilities that stem from it that man would make the wrong choice.
1 corinthians: And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

I would like to ask you do you understand the meaning of All in All? Once everything is subdued (everything is come to pass) He will be all in all.It is not once judegement
WE WILL ALL be all in all, this is a unique statement specifically addressing the Godhead that what was once separate and unique in there roles will become one as they were from the beginning. In the beginning was the Word... This very passage is why I could never equate any of this to just a spiritual connection.

Scripturally we have the verse I gave you earlier that shows that Jesus did make a claim to be God (one of very few times because it was not His primary role)
and it was easily understood by the Jews at that time that was exactly what He was claiming. Without that understanding cruxifiction would not have taken place if we are to
believe the jewish speakers at that time.They called His work good it was not about works, it was not about violation of the sabbath it was because of His claim.
For context and ease here is the entire passage:
John 10
30 I and my Father are one.
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

He was the perfect atonement and that does not allow for any sins, any lies, any blemish of any kind. Was this a lie? You see later on He refers to himself as the Son of man. Mirrored in
the text from the book of Daniel 7:
As I looked on, in the night vision, one like a Son of Man was coming with the clouds of heaven; he reached the Everlasting One and was presented to him. Dominion, glory, and kingship were given to him.
All peoples and nations of every language must serve him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that shall not pass away, and his kingship, one that shall not be destroyed."

The use of everlasting and dominion is interesting here to me because the thread and chord throughout the entire bible is that only One is timeless. Only one had no beginning
and no end.

I will stop here; because upon putting my notes together I fear I have wrote a small book already; with some scripture that to me is key to unlocking this whole thing. These passages are what tipped the scales for me.There also is a book written about this that I found to be very good called Putting Jesus in His place: The case for the deity of Christ it uses the acronym H.A.N.D.S to explain
and give you markers to help you see what has been hidden:
Jesus deserves the Honors only due to God
Jesus shares the Attributes that only God can possess
Jesus is given Names that can only be given to God
Jesus performs Deeds that only God can perform
Jesus possesses a Seat on the throne of God

Romans 9:5 To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is Christ who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen

Titus 2:3 "waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.

2 Peter 1:1 To those who have obtained faith of equal standing with ours by righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ.



John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word WAS God. .....And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

Rev 1:8 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the Ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, The ALMIGHTY.

Col 2:9 In Him is the fullness of the Godhead bodily

I hope this helps you to see why and explore the concept more fully. Please forgive some of the formatting because I am limited to how much I can correct within the little box we type in. Much respect and love I hope I have not failed to present a case very close to my heart. This is
a very important issue but belief in the same God puts us both in an advintious situation most that I speak with do not have the same footing you and I do and that makes
it double hard to open eyes. I have found things along my journey that once I have the full impact of understanding God becomes a much bigger and magnificent being than
He previously was. This concept is one of them. Look for the love. Consider the concepts again with an open heart, put it on the scales and test the scriptures with
everything you have got and then pray and let Him speak to you once again so that questions become understanding and through God understanding becomes KNOWING.

My friend, this is where I believe we have reached an impasse, a point where our interpretations and understanding differs. You read the bible and you see one thing, while I read it and I see another. That is okay, because the bottom line is that we both endeavor to adhere to the teachings of Jesus Christ, and to please our Heavenly Father. Thank you for the wonderful discussion and please do not let our differing views detract from our friendship :-)



Last Edited by Rising Son on 11/04/2013 02:53 PM

Who honestly gives a shit?

This isnt a bible class site you fuckwit, this is a conspiracy site. Show us some fucking news instead trying to peddle your bullshit on everyone.

It is for each to find his own way, many roads around a mountain.

You did not have to enter this thread and dishonor the subject matter, but you did anyway. You made that choice, so don't whine about throwing anything in anyone's face when you did not have to enter this thread.

Last Edited by Rising Son on 11/04/2013 03:00 PM

No problem :) Thanks for hearing me out. We all have our own walk and sometimes we each see things a little bit differently. Its ok to disagree because love and kindness and mutual respect are some of the most important things in this world.

I agree he is our spiritual brother.
He also is the Father and Yet his father is greater than him.

seems like a paradox. Really it's not.

We all believe that Jesus Christ was born from a virgin named Mary, His earthy father was named Joseph, and yet He is a Son of God. Notice how I said 'a' Son of God, as in there are many, but few find their true path to the Father by Jesus Christ's example. Jesus was a trail blazer and He wanted us to follow in His footsteps to Our Father's Kingdom.