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Cosmic Turf War: You'll never see the Old Testament the same again

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Keep2theCode
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Cosmic Turf War: You'll never see the Old Testament the same again
I came across this video lecture a few hours ago and just finished watching it. It's a 1-1/2 hour lecture on the Old Testament from Michael Heiser, someone I've never heard of before but who seems to know what he's talking about. He sheds such bright light on the texts as to blow away a lot of things that didn't quite add up before or were hard to figure out. Subjects the lecture impacts include:

-- The Nephalim, the Watchers, and the Giants
-- What Jesus meant in Mat. 24 by "marrying and giving in marriage"
-- The REAL reason God had Israel wipe entire nations off the map, including children and animals

I strongly urge you to give this video priority over all the crap people usually watch, as it debunks people like Sitchin and beliefs like Gnosticism, which the lecturer calls "the theology of the Watchers".


Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Keep2theCode (OP)

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11/11/2013 09:59 PM
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Re: Cosmic Turf War: You'll never see the Old Testament the same again
The one-star bandits are FAST! Nobody could have watched the video yet, so clearly somebody hates me personally to do that. Their loss.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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11/11/2013 10:04 PM
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Re: Cosmic Turf War: You'll never see the Old Testament the same again
to the OP:
what were a few of the discussion points that you found the most interesting/fascinating?
Anonymous Coward
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11/11/2013 10:07 PM
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Re: Cosmic Turf War: You'll never see the Old Testament the same again
to the OP:
what were a few of the discussion points that you found the most interesting/fascinating?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21305908


Yes, please post enough so people will know if it's worth the time. So far, it sounds intriguing.
Keep2theCode (OP)

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11/11/2013 10:13 PM
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Re: Cosmic Turf War: You'll never see the Old Testament the same again
to the OP:
what were a few of the discussion points that you found the most interesting/fascinating?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21305908


I really need to watch it again, but right now I'd say his meticulous definition of terms from all possible angles is the key to unlocking points of debate on those items I lsted above.

For example, he believes the Nephilim are not the Watchers, who are not the Giants. Also, he points out that the "sons of God, daughters of men" were not cases of rape but voluntary arrangements by both the women and their fathers. They knowingly interbred with non-humans.

He believes that the phrase Jesus used in Mat. 24 as one of the conditions for the end times, "marrying and giving in marriage", is a rarely-used expression for these very kinds of interbreeding, not normal human marriages.

The lecturer also explains that many of the nations God had Israel wipe out were composed of hybrids. The back drop is that when God scrambled the languages of people at the Tower of Babel, he defined the limits or borders of their lands "according to the number of the Sons of God"... NOT the sons of Israel, as some translations render it. In other words, God was saying to the world, "You want to worship these 'gods'? Fine. I will lay out their lands and you can serve them instead of me. But I will reserve a land for myself, my people, Israel."

This is why they are the "chosen people" and why they had to remain separate. This is why the other nations, ruled over by malevolent entities, have always sought to wipe Israel off the map. And this is why those who give their allegiance to malevolence are always at odds with anyone who gives their allegiance to God.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
rekameohsnad

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Re: Cosmic Turf War: You'll never see the Old Testament the same again
He believes that the phrase Jesus used in Mat. 24 as one of the conditions for the end times,
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


isn't that in the New Testament ?
Keep2theCode (OP)

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Re: Cosmic Turf War: You'll never see the Old Testament the same again
He believes that the phrase Jesus used in Mat. 24 as one of the conditions for the end times,
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


isn't that in the New Testament ?
 Quoting: rekameohsnad


Yes, of course. But he shows how Jesus likely referred to what was going on in Gen. 6.
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Anonymous Coward
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11/11/2013 10:23 PM
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Re: Cosmic Turf War: You'll never see the Old Testament the same again
OP:
Thank you for the talking points, it does sound interesting-----I’ve bookmarked it to watch when I have more time.
Keep2theCode (OP)

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11/11/2013 10:24 PM
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Re: Cosmic Turf War: You'll never see the Old Testament the same again
OP:
Thank you for the talking points, it does sound interesting-----I’ve bookmarked it to watch when I have more time.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21305908


You're quite welcome. hf

And I need to get some sleep now, so I'll be back tomorrow.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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11/11/2013 11:41 PM
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Re: Cosmic Turf War: You'll never see the Old Testament the same again
I came across this video lecture a few hours ago and just finished watching it. It's a 1-1/2 hour lecture on the Old Testament from Michael Heiser, someone I've never heard of before but who seems to know what he's talking about. He sheds such bright light on the texts as to blow away a lot of things that didn't quite add up before or were hard to figure out. Subjects the lecture impacts include:

-- The Nephalim, the Watchers, and the Giants
-- What Jesus meant in Mat. 24 by "marrying and giving in marriage"
-- The REAL reason God had Israel wipe entire nations off the map, including children and animals

I strongly urge you to give this video priority over all the crap people usually watch, as it debunks people like Sitchin and beliefs like Gnosticism, which the lecturer calls "the theology of the Watchers".


 Quoting: Keep2theCode


I enjoyed it , thank you.
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2013 12:03 AM
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Re: Cosmic Turf War: You'll never see the Old Testament the same again
a strange word where i have materialized, where layered scientific metaphors are thought to be religious texts ? i had better check those calculations again . ufo56
grimmlord

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11/12/2013 01:39 AM
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Re: Cosmic Turf War: You'll never see the Old Testament the same again
bumped and 5 starred
"the truth points to itself" = www.shepherdschapel.com
Anonymous Coward
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11/12/2013 06:36 AM
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Re: Cosmic Turf War: You'll never see the Old Testament the same again
Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind.
Colossians 2:18

Man and women produce children in the physical.
Man and woman also bring forth falsities and truths. Man can embrace the theory of evolution (a lie from men), and marry it making it their wife - their truth.

Choosing to believe that the daughters of men and Sons of God were fallen angels and such takes us straight into Jewish mysticism and angel worship. What comes out of the mouth defiles a man...
Keep2theCode (OP)

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Re: Cosmic Turf War: You'll never see the Old Testament the same again
bumped and 5 starred
 Quoting: grimmlord


Thanks! hf
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Keep2theCode (OP)

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11/12/2013 06:45 AM
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Re: Cosmic Turf War: You'll never see the Old Testament the same again
Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind.
Colossians 2:18

Man and women produce children in the physical.
Man and woman also bring forth falsities and truths. Man can embrace the theory of evolution (a lie from men), and marry it making it their wife - their truth.

Choosing to believe that the daughters of men and Sons of God were fallen angels and such takes us straight into Jewish mysticism and angel worship. What comes out of the mouth defiles a man...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33666615


I'm sure you mean well, but this is hardly the WORSHIP of angels. It is in fact the EXPOSING of angels who scripture says "left their first estate" and were locked up in Tartarus. Neither is there any "false humility" going on here, and no one is claiming to have "seen" anything. Further, you're accusing the speaker (and I, I assume) of being "puffed up with idle notions" and having an "unspiritual mind". These are all straw men and false accusations.

You didn't watch the video or you wouldn't say these things.

What I or anyone else choose to believe, especially based upon scripture, is not for you to judge. So if you cite "what comes out of the mouth" as "defiling", you should consider what just came out of yours.

Please, let's keep this a discussion of ideas rather than people.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Cosmic Turf War: You'll never see the Old Testament the same again
bump
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Cosmic Turf War: You'll never see the Old Testament the same again
God was saying to the world, "You want to worship these 'gods'? Fine. I will lay out their lands and you can serve them instead of me. But I will reserve a land for myself, my people, Israel."

This is why they are the "chosen people" and why they had to remain separate. This is why the other nations, ruled over by malevolent entities, have always sought to wipe Israel off the map. And this is why those who give their allegiance to malevolence are always at odds with anyone who gives their allegiance to God.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode

In other words, this video is just more zionist misinformation nonsense.


.
Keep2theCode (OP)

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Re: Cosmic Turf War: You'll never see the Old Testament the same again
God was saying to the world, "You want to worship these 'gods'? Fine. I will lay out their lands and you can serve them instead of me. But I will reserve a land for myself, my people, Israel."

This is why they are the "chosen people" and why they had to remain separate. This is why the other nations, ruled over by malevolent entities, have always sought to wipe Israel off the map. And this is why those who give their allegiance to malevolence are always at odds with anyone who gives their allegiance to God.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode

In other words, this video is just more zionist misinformation nonsense.


.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 49526545


No.

Why don't you try watching it, instead of seeing a boogyman under every rock? Are you afraid it might shake an existing belief?
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Keep2theCode (OP)

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Re: Cosmic Turf War: You'll never see the Old Testament the same again
Starting to listen a second time, and so far the point to add is that the speaker debunks the "serpent seed" theory as arising mostly out of rabbinical/Talmudic misogyny than anything else. There is no backing in the Biblical text for Eve bearing children with the serpent (or as the speaker says, "serpentine being"), esp. since the text states point blank that Eve bore Cain from Adam.

Also, he shows that someone named Gardener who teaches the "serpent seed" theory, deliberately omitted a large portion of the verse he quotes to make his claim.

(So much for the charge of this talk being "Zionist", since the speaker dismisses the Talmud.)

This is on the first 20 min. of the talk. I will try to post something about each 20 min.

Last Edited by Keep2theCode on 11/12/2013 09:13 AM
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Anonymous Coward
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Re: Cosmic Turf War: You'll never see the Old Testament the same again
1.- The Nephalim, the Watchers, and the Giants

<---True! The Nephalim were the offspring of human females and Angels!
The offspring were abnormally large! Perished in the great flood of Noah's day.

2.-- What Jesus meant in Mat. 24 by "marrying and giving in marriage"

<---Going about their normal lives. People today marry and give in marriage.

3.-- The REAL reason God had Israel wipe entire nations off the map, including children and animals

<======Other nations
of those days were usually warring with the Ancient Jews, the other nations were filled with disease from having sex with animals, their offspring, their cousins, their mothers and fathers and were full of disease. Even the animals were diseased from being used for sex.
There were no hospitals in those days remember?

People don't realize that the world in ancient times had no laws or rules of conduct. That is why God used the ancient Jews to teach the world that humans need rules and laws.

God cleaned up the ancient Jews as an example for the world at that time to see.
Keep2theCode (OP)

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Re: Cosmic Turf War: You'll never see the Old Testament the same again
2.-- What Jesus meant in Mat. 24 by "marrying and giving in marriage"

<---Going about their normal lives. People today marry and give in marriage.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 46648679

Yes, that's the indisputable meaning in context. They were caught unawares, and so it will be with the world when the end suddenly comes. But the speaker gives a good argument that Jesus also had a reason for using this phrase as referring to human/nonhuman interbreeding. These two ideas are not mutually exclusive.


3.-- The REAL reason God had Israel wipe entire nations off the map, including children and animals

<======Other nations
of those days were usually warring with the Ancient Jews, the other nations were filled with disease from having sex with animals, their offspring, their cousins, their mothers and fathers and were full of disease. Even the animals were diseased from being used for sex.
There were no hospitals in those days remember?
 Quoting:

Yes, this is all true. But in some cases there were also hybrids, according to the speaker in the video.


People don't realize that the world in ancient times had no laws or rules of conduct. That is why God used the ancient Jews to teach the world that humans need rules and laws.

God cleaned up the ancient Jews as an example for the world at that time to see.
 Quoting:

Actually, other ancient societies did have fairly well-developed laws and rules of conduct. What God used the Jews to teach them is that they worshiped false gods and were in violation of the laws of the true God. The Jews were supposed to be living examples of how to worship God, but of course they failed repeatedly. Yet in spite of that, God made promises that cannot be revoked, and he is not going to abandon them.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Keep2theCode (OP)

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Re: Cosmic Turf War: You'll never see the Old Testament the same again
More and more downvotes for the thread... I wonder how many of them actually watched the video?
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Keep2theCode (OP)

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Re: Cosmic Turf War: You'll never see the Old Testament the same again
The 2nd 20 min. continues details regarding the "serpent seed" argument, then toward the end of that segment he covers more on the "sons of God, daughters of men" issue. He argues that the voluntary nature of the unions is how the Biblical focus on blaming humans for the sin leading to the Flood can be reconciled with the book of Enoch's blame on "the watchers". In other words, the blame is shared.

Also, he briefly touches on the phrase "and afterwards", referring to the giants. Some question how the giants could be on the earth after the Flood which was designed to wipe them out, and they speculate that maybe Noah or one of his sons or their wives had giant DNA. But this speaker believes instead that it was a simple case of the Watchers picking up where they had left off, since the Bible specifies that Noah "was perfect in his generations", meaning he was fully human. This is covered more in the next segment, as I recall.

There are some interesting implications from this. As the speaker explains, these beings were also called Titans by non-Jewish people. I believe this explains the belief in ancient mythological beings such as the Greek pantheon. And this would mean that the Watchers, who according to the NT "had left their proper realm", had not been imprisoned in Tartarus until this second defiling of mankind.
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Cudilicious

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11/12/2013 09:51 AM

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Re: Cosmic Turf War: You'll never see the Old Testament the same again
Starting to listen a second time, and so far the point to add is that the speaker debunks the "serpent seed" theory as arising mostly out of rabbinical/Talmudic misogyny than anything else. There is no backing in the Biblical text for Eve bearing children with the serpent (or as the speaker says, "serpentine being"), esp. since the text states point blank that Eve bore Cain from Adam.

Also, he shows that someone named Gardener who teaches the "serpent seed" theory, deliberately omitted a large portion of the verse he quotes to make his claim.

(So much for the charge of this talk being "Zionist", since the speaker dismisses the Talmud.)

This is on the first 20 min. of the talk. I will try to post something about each 20 min.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Please explain this verse:

Genesis 3:20
21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
20 And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Cosmic Turf War: You'll never see the Old Testament the same again
God was saying to the world, "You want to worship these 'gods'? Fine. I will lay out their lands and you can serve them instead of me. But I will reserve a land for myself, my people, Israel."

This is why they are the "chosen people" and why they had to remain separate. This is why the other nations, ruled over by malevolent entities, have always sought to wipe Israel off the map. And this is why those who give their allegiance to malevolence are always at odds with anyone who gives their allegiance to God.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode

In other words, this video is just more zionist misinformation nonsense.


.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 49526545


Eggzackly
the only real theme of the old testament is that nobody else matters, its a self published entitlement card and little else
Keep2theCode (OP)

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Re: Cosmic Turf War: You'll never see the Old Testament the same again
Starting to listen a second time, and so far the point to add is that the speaker debunks the "serpent seed" theory as arising mostly out of rabbinical/Talmudic misogyny than anything else. There is no backing in the Biblical text for Eve bearing children with the serpent (or as the speaker says, "serpentine being"), esp. since the text states point blank that Eve bore Cain from Adam.

Also, he shows that someone named Gardener who teaches the "serpent seed" theory, deliberately omitted a large portion of the verse he quotes to make his claim.

(So much for the charge of this talk being "Zionist", since the speaker dismisses the Talmud.)

This is on the first 20 min. of the talk. I will try to post something about each 20 min.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Please explain this verse:

Genesis 3:20
21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
20 And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.
 Quoting: Cudilicious


I think it goes without saying that "all the living" means human beings, as opposed to animals or any other non-humans. She is the first mother.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Keep2theCode (OP)

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Re: Cosmic Turf War: You'll never see the Old Testament the same again
God was saying to the world, "You want to worship these 'gods'? Fine. I will lay out their lands and you can serve them instead of me. But I will reserve a land for myself, my people, Israel."

This is why they are the "chosen people" and why they had to remain separate. This is why the other nations, ruled over by malevolent entities, have always sought to wipe Israel off the map. And this is why those who give their allegiance to malevolence are always at odds with anyone who gives their allegiance to God.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode

In other words, this video is just more zionist misinformation nonsense.


.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 49526545


Eggzackly
the only real theme of the old testament is that nobody else matters, its a self published entitlement card and little else
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1936857


You didn't watch the video. And I've already responded to the other person's Zionist claim; you could at least try reading that.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Keep2theCode (OP)

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11/12/2013 10:14 AM
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Re: Cosmic Turf War: You'll never see the Old Testament the same again
Third 20 min. segment notes:

-- Nephilim does not mean "fallen ones" or even "sons of God, but "giants", the hybrid human/Watcher offspring.

-- Many theologians "strip mine" all the supernatural from the Bible, so they dismiss out of hand any and all evidence for any supernatural beings beyond God and Satan.

-- Also goes over a text telling of an argument between Lamech and his wife over whether Noah was his son or she had been fooling around with Watchers; she finally has him go ask Enoch, who apparently vouches for her.

-- Says Nimrod was a giant, and many believe he was the instigator of the building of the Tower of Babel.

-- On Gnosticism: Only the non-Jews considered the Watchers/Nephilim the "good guys", and the speaker thus calls it "Watcher theology". This is the source of the Luciferian claim that Lucifer and realted entities are the real good gods and Elohim/YHWY is the bad one.

-- Begins to explain the two lines: serpentine and godly, evil and good, seed of Satan and seed of the woman.
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Anonymous Coward
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Re: Cosmic Turf War: You'll never see the Old Testament the same again
bump
Cudilicious

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11/12/2013 10:21 AM

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Re: Cosmic Turf War: You'll never see the Old Testament the same again
Starting to listen a second time, and so far the point to add is that the speaker debunks the "serpent seed" theory as arising mostly out of rabbinical/Talmudic misogyny than anything else. There is no backing in the Biblical text for Eve bearing children with the serpent (or as the speaker says, "serpentine being"), esp. since the text states point blank that Eve bore Cain from Adam.

Also, he shows that someone named Gardener who teaches the "serpent seed" theory, deliberately omitted a large portion of the verse he quotes to make his claim.

(So much for the charge of this talk being "Zionist", since the speaker dismisses the Talmud.)

This is on the first 20 min. of the talk. I will try to post something about each 20 min.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Please explain this verse:

Genesis 3:20
21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
20 And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.
 Quoting: Cudilicious


I think it goes without saying that "all the living" means human beings, as opposed to animals or any other non-humans. She is the first mother.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Why isn't Adam called "the father of all the living"?
Keep2theCode (OP)

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11/12/2013 10:46 AM
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Re: Cosmic Turf War: You'll never see the Old Testament the same again
Starting to listen a second time, and so far the point to add is that the speaker debunks the "serpent seed" theory as arising mostly out of rabbinical/Talmudic misogyny than anything else. There is no backing in the Biblical text for Eve bearing children with the serpent (or as the speaker says, "serpentine being"), esp. since the text states point blank that Eve bore Cain from Adam.

Also, he shows that someone named Gardener who teaches the "serpent seed" theory, deliberately omitted a large portion of the verse he quotes to make his claim.

(So much for the charge of this talk being "Zionist", since the speaker dismisses the Talmud.)

This is on the first 20 min. of the talk. I will try to post something about each 20 min.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Please explain this verse:

Genesis 3:20
21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
20 And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.
 Quoting: Cudilicious


I think it goes without saying that "all the living" means human beings, as opposed to animals or any other non-humans. She is the first mother.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Why isn't Adam called "the father of all the living"?
 Quoting: Cudilicious


It was Adam who called her "the mother of all the living" (Gen. 3:20), and apparently Eve didn't return the favor.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)

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