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Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?

 
Fred
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02/16/2014 02:40 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
it looks normal for a janitor to have a professionnal cell phone or you could never phone him.
sqware

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02/16/2014 02:49 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
My first guess would be the Blackberry would be school-issued, if anything; have we seen any other Blackberries mentioned in inventory?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27641878


It is difficult to know for sure. Many phones were inventoried as items from the rooms not directly involved in the shooting were being boxed up for transport to the Chalk Hill School. Some were identified as "iPhone", but unfortunately, the others were only identified "cell phones".
Anonymous Coward
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02/16/2014 05:27 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
it looks normal for a janitor to have a professionnal cell phone or you could never phone him.
 Quoting: Fred 53301007


I agree - might only be a few school cell phones, not necessarily all (or any) of the teachers.
sqware

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02/16/2014 08:42 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
Not sure how I missed this, but on Dec. 25 (four days after Sticca was trying to contact Roig regarding her missing phone), we have this email from Apple security to Sticca. Notice that Apple says "...regarding an iPhone that is in your possession as evidence".

Does this mean that Sticca found one of the 2 missing iphones, which we are to assume, is either teacher [x]'s Verizon phone, or Roig's Sprint phone? Or, maybe some other person's phone?

>>
From: law_enforcement_esc@apple.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 1:46 PM
To: Sticca, Mark
Subject: Apple Case [x]; Follow-up: [x]

Dear Investigator Sticca,
Thank you for contacting Apple. We understand you are requesting information regarding an iPhone that is in your possession as evidence in an ongoing case.

We are currently researching your issue. You should expect to be contacted shortly for further assistance with this inquiry.

We appreciate your efforts and thank you for contacting us. Your concern has been documented in Apple case number [x]

Best regards.
Michael
Apple Customer Care
>>

Book 2, 00014533.pdf, pg 57
Kpm

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02/16/2014 08:59 PM

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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
Sqware

I bet they they might have been tracking any activity?

Good find!
I'm easily satisfied with the very best~Winston Churchill~

~ENFJ-A~
Anonymous Coward
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02/16/2014 10:53 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
Not sure how I missed this, but on Dec. 25 (four days after Sticca was trying to contact Roig regarding her missing phone), we have this email from Apple security to Sticca. Notice that Apple says "...regarding an iPhone that is in your possession as evidence".

Does this mean that Sticca found one of the 2 missing iphones, which we are to assume, is either teacher [x]'s Verizon phone, or Roig's Sprint phone? Or, maybe some other person's phone?

>>
From: law_enforcement_esc@apple.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 1:46 PM
To: Sticca, Mark
Subject: Apple Case [x]; Follow-up: [x]

Dear Investigator Sticca,
Thank you for contacting Apple. We understand you are requesting information regarding an iPhone that is in your possession as evidence in an ongoing case.

We are currently researching your issue. You should expect to be contacted shortly for further assistance with this inquiry.

We appreciate your efforts and thank you for contacting us. Your concern has been documented in Apple case number [x]

Best regards.
Michael
Apple Customer Care
>>

Book 2, 00014533.pdf, pg 57
 Quoting: sqware


Ugh! The sloppiness of this report is incredibly effective at obfuscating any definitive facts.
Fred
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02/17/2014 02:04 AM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
Not sure how I missed this, but on Dec. 25 (four days after Sticca was trying to contact Roig regarding her missing phone), we have this email from Apple security to Sticca. Notice that Apple says "...regarding an iPhone that is in your possession as evidence".

Does this mean that Sticca found one of the 2 missing iphones, which we are to assume, is either teacher [x]'s Verizon phone, or Roig's Sprint phone? Or, maybe some other person's phone?

>>
From: law_enforcement_esc@apple.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 1:46 PM
To: Sticca, Mark
Subject: Apple Case [x]; Follow-up: [x]

Dear Investigator Sticca,
Thank you for contacting Apple. We understand you are requesting information regarding an iPhone that is in your possession as evidence in an ongoing case.

We are currently researching your issue. You should expect to be contacted shortly for further assistance with this inquiry.

We appreciate your efforts and thank you for contacting us. Your concern has been documented in Apple case number [x]

Best regards.
Michael
Apple Customer Care
>>

Book 2, 00014533.pdf, pg 57
 Quoting: sqware


but they found one in Lanza home... so...
Stickywicket

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02/17/2014 03:44 AM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
Riog, re-interviewed in April (listed as April 2012, but must mean 2013):

"Roig then appeared to have remembered something and stated that there was a break in the shooting. Roig stated that the only break she heard in the shooting was when she ran out of the bathroom to go get her cell phone, which she could not find...Roig clarified for us verbally, that she initially heard the gunfire, she got the kids into the bathroom, she heard a break in the shooting and ran to get her cell phone, got back into the bathroom, and then heard the pleading and the gunfire started again."

That's a small excerpt, from Book 5, 00091247
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27641878


Does this mean that it could not be Roig that we hear in the 911 calls?
FlashBuzzkill

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02/17/2014 08:19 AM

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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
Riog, re-interviewed in April (listed as April 2012, but must mean 2013):

"Roig then appeared to have remembered something and stated that there was a break in the shooting. Roig stated that the only break she heard in the shooting was when she ran out of the bathroom to go get her cell phone, which she could not find...Roig clarified for us verbally, that she initially heard the gunfire, she got the kids into the bathroom, she heard a break in the shooting and ran to get her cell phone, got back into the bathroom, and then heard the pleading and the gunfire started again."

That's a small excerpt, from Book 5, 00091247
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27641878


Does this mean that it could not be Roig that we hear in the 911 calls?
 Quoting: Stickywicket


Would you not only risk your own life but those of all your students just to get a fucking phone? I know people love their phones and all but wtf? You wouldn't leave that bathroom until you KNEW it was safe, unless of course it were just a drill and part of your role was to make a 911 call. Then it makes sense.

Otherwise it's bullshit.

Dispatcher asking if she'd had any "updates". That word was used at least twice, another good drill indicator.

Last Edited by FlashBuzzkill on 02/17/2014 08:21 AM
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Anonymous Coward
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02/17/2014 09:26 AM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
Riog, re-interviewed in April (listed as April 2012, but must mean 2013):

"Roig then appeared to have remembered something and stated that there was a break in the shooting. Roig stated that the only break she heard in the shooting was when she ran out of the bathroom to go get her cell phone, which she could not find...Roig clarified for us verbally, that she initially heard the gunfire, she got the kids into the bathroom, she heard a break in the shooting and ran to get her cell phone, got back into the bathroom, and then heard the pleading and the gunfire started again."

That's a small excerpt, from Book 5, 00091247
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27641878


Does this mean that it could not be Roig that we hear in the 911 calls?
 Quoting: Stickywicket


Actually imo it gives weight to the concept that she had a phone available. And leaving the bathroom to get it implies intent to use.

Until now a suggestion has been that since a shooter took her phone or her phone was otherwise missing, she couldn't have called.
Anonymous Coward
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02/17/2014 09:27 AM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
Riog, re-interviewed in April (listed as April 2012, but must mean 2013):

"Roig then appeared to have remembered something and stated that there was a break in the shooting. Roig stated that the only break she heard in the shooting was when she ran out of the bathroom to go get her cell phone, which she could not find...Roig clarified for us verbally, that she initially heard the gunfire, she got the kids into the bathroom, she heard a break in the shooting and ran to get her cell phone, got back into the bathroom, and then heard the pleading and the gunfire started again."

That's a small excerpt, from Book 5, 00091247
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27641878


Does this mean that it could not be Roig that we hear in the 911 calls?
 Quoting: Stickywicket


Would you not only risk your own life but those of all your students just to get a fucking phone? I know people love their phones and all but wtf? You wouldn't leave that bathroom until you KNEW it was safe, unless of course it were just a drill and part of your role was to make a 911 call. Then it makes sense.

Otherwise it's bullshit.

Dispatcher asking if she'd had any "updates". That word was used at least twice, another good drill indicator.
 Quoting: FlashBuzzkill


No offense FBK but if I thought I could get away with a dash for a phone to use to call police I'd do it. No guarantee anyone else has been able to call.
Anonymous Coward
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02/17/2014 09:28 AM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
Riog, re-interviewed in April (listed as April 2012, but must mean 2013):

"Roig then appeared to have remembered something and stated that there was a break in the shooting. Roig stated that the only break she heard in the shooting was when she ran out of the bathroom to go get her cell phone, which she could not find...Roig clarified for us verbally, that she initially heard the gunfire, she got the kids into the bathroom, she heard a break in the shooting and ran to get her cell phone, got back into the bathroom, and then heard the pleading and the gunfire started again."

That's a small excerpt, from Book 5, 00091247
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27641878


Does this mean that it could not be Roig that we hear in the 911 calls?
 Quoting: Stickywicket


Would you not only risk your own life but those of all your students just to get a fucking phone? I know people love their phones and all but wtf? You wouldn't leave that bathroom until you KNEW it was safe, unless of course it were just a drill and part of your role was to make a 911 call. Then it makes sense.

Otherwise it's bullshit.

Dispatcher asking if she'd had any "updates". That word was used at least twice, another good drill indicator.
 Quoting: FlashBuzzkill


Or rather, it's a cost-benefit analysis at that point - stay hiding in a bathroom with possibly no help coming, or call for help. The pause in noises probably emboldened her to make the run.

But...her entire story is iffy and has to gone over (yet again) with fine-toothed combs, eh?
FlashBuzzkill

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02/17/2014 12:48 PM

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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
No offense FBK but if I thought I could get away with a dash for a phone to use to call police I'd do it. No guarantee anyone else has been able to call.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41835308


None taken. She had to be coaxed out of the bathroom later by police who put their badges under the door. After coming out she was hysterical. Maybe she was in shock and not thinking rationally but to leave the bathroom put her whole class in danger.
Surely someone else would have called 911, they're in a school after all.

Why did her attitude change so much during the event from being willing to go outside to find her phone to literally having to be dragged from the bathroom later?

Was it a drill and that's why she wasn't afraid to leave only to find out people had actually been killed which made her terrified? It seems like some dynamic changed taking her attitude along with it.

Last Edited by FlashBuzzkill on 02/17/2014 12:52 PM
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Anonymous Coward
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02/17/2014 01:09 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
No offense FBK but if I thought I could get away with a dash for a phone to use to call police I'd do it. No guarantee anyone else has been able to call.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41835308


None taken. She had to be coaxed out of the bathroom later by police who put their badges under the door. After coming out she was hysterical. Maybe she was in shock and not thinking rationally but to leave the bathroom put her whole class in danger.
Surely someone else would have called 911, they're in a school after all.

Why did her attitude change so much during the event from being willing to go outside to find her phone to literally having to be dragged from the bathroom later?

Was it a drill and that's why she wasn't afraid to leave only to find out people had actually been killed which made her terrified? It seems like some dynamic changed taking her attitude along with it.
 Quoting: FlashBuzzkill


Well, if she really thought they were all going to die, which she has said several times, I believe, she'd want to make a call to loved ones, for sure, after the 911. At the point when you think you'll make it, you're probably in one frame of mind; once you've converted to "We're doomed," maybe another?

I think there may be some question as to who she called, though, if she called anyone after 911. For example, was it Mr. Vest? She seems to have definitely called him at some point and told him that "a substitute teacher was fumbling for keys."

How and when did she know the sub was doing this, and when did she tell Vest?

At one point I thought perhaps an embarrassing call to Vest could have made her create a story about a "stolen phone" to make sure it was found--but in the end I don't think that makes sense.

I can't help but do a double-take at the part in her followup interview where police write, "Roig paused and seemed to remember something" (or something to that effect).

Why, in April, is she recounting what happened, completely omitting the phone part--and then pauses and "suddenly remembers" going for the phone? I would think by that time she would have told the story many times and there wouldn't be new memories coming to her, or at least not something as concrete as a phone.

There's something about that phone.
Anonymous Coward
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02/17/2014 01:13 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
Flash, backread pages 16 and 17. The dispatcher asks about updates in the second call we've been discussing. And we're believe now that Roig didn't make that call.
Anonymous Coward
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02/17/2014 01:15 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
Did you notice how most some seemed to scramble to say they didn't see the shooter? One even said later she had decided the person she saw was not the shooter after all, etc.

I think people have all watched enough crime drama to know that being able to identify an escaped shooter is bad juju, especially with Sedensky going on about there still being possible future arrests, and that witnesses remained in danger.

Roig is a smart lady. For any number of reasons, the story of a shooter bursting into her room, taking her phone and leaving her unharmed is not as attractive, or safe, as the official story. And the official story is now, "I saw no one, and my phone was with me."

Contact with the shooter who mysteriously leaves her alone reduces her from heroine to just really lucky or possibly even suspicious, and makes her a target for whoever got away.
Anonymous Coward
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02/17/2014 01:16 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
I'm not saying she cooked up some evil plot to shift the narrative, more that one is naturally more attractive, and since the official weight is behind it anyway, why not go with the flow?
Anonymous Coward
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02/17/2014 10:16 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
State police audio some time between 11am-12pm has officers trying to ring a phone; always thought it was a Lanza phone, but realize now it might be the Roig phone.
Anonymous Coward
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02/17/2014 11:14 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
OK, so this is where I am right now:

1.It is very very likely called 911 at 9:36:37.

2. Yet, for some reason, she later no longer had her phone in her possession.

3. The simplest explanation for why Roig no longer had her phone is that she wasn't paying attention when she put it down after making the call and simply forgot where she'd left it. If this is the case, then the phone should have been found somewhere in her classroom.

4. We do know that a Blackberry was found in her room, but it isn't entirely clear that this was Roig's phone because parts of the report seem to suggest that she had an iPhone.

5. Additionally, we know that the her phone was not returned to her, but the lack of clarity in the report also makes it difficult to determine whether this is because the phone was never found or because the phone was retained as evidence.

IMO, the most "obvious" scenario here is that the Blackberry was, in fact, Roig's phone and that the police withheld it as evidence for some reason.

But none of that would explain why Roig believed that the gunman had taken her phone.

Did she simply jump to the conclusion that the gumman might have taken it because she could no longer find it?

Or did she have good reason to believe that the gunman had been in her room?
Anonymous Coward
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02/17/2014 11:19 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
OK, so this is where I am right now:

1.It is very very likely called 911 at 9:36:37.

2. Yet, for some reason, she later no longer had her phone in her possession.

3. The simplest explanation for why Roig no longer had her phone is that she wasn't paying attention when she put it down after making the call and simply forgot where she'd left it. If this is the case, then the phone should have been found somewhere in her classroom.

4. We do know that a Blackberry was found in her room, but it isn't entirely clear that this was Roig's phone because parts of the report seem to suggest that she had an iPhone.

5. Additionally, we know that the her phone was not returned to her, but the lack of clarity in the report also makes it difficult to determine whether this is because the phone was never found or because the phone was retained as evidence.

IMO, the most "obvious" scenario here is that the Blackberry was, in fact, Roig's phone and that the police withheld it as evidence for some reason.

But none of that would explain why Roig believed that the gunman had taken her phone.

Did she simply jump to the conclusion that the gumman might have taken it because she could no longer find it?

Or did she have good reason to believe that the gunman had been in her room?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36903391


I think Roig's personal is iPhone/Sprint
Anonymous Coward
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02/17/2014 11:49 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
It was just Apple's rep who assumed the phone was retained as evidence; the cops just submitted the info for Roig's phone and Apple presumed it had been retained, when in reality, it likely (as far as we can tell) was never found.
Anonymous Coward
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02/17/2014 11:50 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
I think Roig's personal is iPhone/Sprint
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41835308


I think you're probably right. But I would really like some stronger evidence that the Blackberry isn't her phone.

I'm mostly approaching this from the angle of trying to disprove the official story rather than trying to prove any particular alternative narrative.
Anonymous Coward
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02/17/2014 11:50 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
I don't think the Blackberry can be the phone in question because 1) it's not missing and 2) cops are trying to get Apple to replace an iPhone, not a Blackberry.
Anonymous Coward
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02/17/2014 11:52 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
Even if the Blackberry is her phone, too, her iPhone is still missing. Cops referred to it has her "persona cell phone," so that would imply the Blackberry, if it does have some association with Roig, is not her personal phone.
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2014 12:05 AM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
Even if the Blackberry is her phone, too, her iPhone is still missing. Cops referred to it has her "persona cell phone," so that would imply the Blackberry, if it does have some association with Roig, is not her personal phone.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41835308


Yeah... I'm just finding this all so complicated. Sorry, my brain has been kind of slow today and I'm not being very helpful. Thanks for your patience.
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2014 12:08 AM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
Maybe these teachers weren't even teaching in the rooms they claim they were.

This document lists Rachel D'Avino's (deceased) jacket, cell phone and keys as being in Room 6. They should have been in Room 8.

This same document lists both Roig & Soto having property in Room 10; Roig was allegedly assigned to Room 12.

00014533
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2014 10:01 AM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
Even if the Blackberry is her phone, too, her iPhone is still missing. Cops referred to it has her "persona cell phone," so that would imply the Blackberry, if it does have some association with Roig, is not her personal phone.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41835308


Yeah... I'm just finding this all so complicated. Sorry, my brain has been kind of slow today and I'm not being very helpful. Thanks for your patience.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36903391


Well, I'm way too prone to rushing to conclusions. I need to collect all those Roig/Roig-related statements and read them in their entirety, together. 00014533, for example, doesn't actually make it clear which teacher's missing phone is the Apple--can be read both ways, I think.
Fred
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02/18/2014 10:08 AM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
...
5. Additionally, we know that the her phone was not returned to her, but the lack of clarity in the report also makes it difficult to determine whether this is because the phone was never found or because the phone was retained as evidence.

....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36903391


the iPhone retained as evidence is the one found in Lanza home. (i think, of course...)
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2014 10:09 AM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
...
5. Additionally, we know that the her phone was not returned to her, but the lack of clarity in the report also makes it difficult to determine whether this is because the phone was never found or because the phone was retained as evidence.

....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36903391


the iPhone retained as evidence is the one found in Lanza home. (i think, of course...)
 Quoting: Fred 53301007


Interesting--makes sense--will ck it out!
Fred
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02/18/2014 10:21 AM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
...

Interesting--makes sense--will ck it out!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 54541089


and also, why to ping the phone 3 times if it was not seriously lost.


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