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Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?

 
Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2014 11:23 AM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
Slightly OT, but something to note:

Mrs. D'Amato's Substitute Plan "documented from 9:00 am-9:15 am-morning work, 9:20-9:30 Morning Meeting, and 9:30-1015-Writing." (Book 6, 00118939.pdf, pg. 43)
Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2014 11:50 AM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
Slightly OT, but something to note:

Mrs. D'Amato's Substitute Plan "documented from 9:00 am-9:15 am-morning work, 9:20-9:30 Morning Meeting, and 9:30-1015-Writing." (00118939.pdf, pg. 43)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36903391


Shoot, that file isn't in Book 6; it's the scene report.
Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2014 12:09 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
Slightly OT, but something to note:

Mrs. D'Amato's Substitute Plan "documented from 9:00 am-9:15 am-morning work, 9:20-9:30 Morning Meeting, and 9:30-1015-Writing." (00118939.pdf, pg. 43)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36903391


Shoot, that file isn't in Book 6; it's the scene report.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36903391


I notice that on Ms. D'Amato's door (Walkley) there are I believe three teachers listed--one looks like "Wink" possibly? Have to look again.

Wondering if this individual was in the room that day.
Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2014 12:27 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
...

8. Her phone is pinged halfway to Rocky Glen

...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 54629843


for point 8, i think there is misunderstanding.
maybe from the cop too.

a ping give a distance from a point = circle.
the phone could be anywhere on this circle.
( see red circle)

first ping
[link to i56.servimg.com]

second ping:
[link to i56.servimg.com]


if in the first ping the phone could be near Apex building... at the second ping it cant!
 Quoting: Fred 53301007


Shouldn't her phone have been found, then?
Fred
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02/20/2014 12:31 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
...

8. Her phone is pinged halfway to Rocky Glen

...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 54629843


for point 8, i think there is misunderstanding.
maybe from the cop too.

a ping give a distance from a point = circle.
the phone could be anywhere on this circle.
( see red circle)

first ping
[link to i56.servimg.com]

second ping:
[link to i56.servimg.com]


if in the first ping the phone could be near Apex building... at the second ping it cant!
 Quoting: Fred 53301007


Shouldn't her phone have been found, then?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36903391


if we believe the final report, no.
Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2014 12:37 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
How did Roig's picture of the morning sunrise get to ABC News?

[link to abcnews.go.com]

05:20
Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2014 12:39 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
How did Roig's picture of the morning sunrise get to ABC News?

[link to abcnews.go.com]

05:20
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 54629843


She might have posted it somewhere like on instagram or texted it to somebody.
Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2014 12:55 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
What do they mean by "possible daycare" in Room 2?
Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2014 01:12 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
How did Roig's picture of the morning sunrise get to ABC News?

[link to abcnews.go.com]

05:20
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 54629843


She might have posted it somewhere like on instagram or texted it to somebody.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36903391


Great point. I'm a bit of a Luddite lol.
Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2014 01:13 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
In that case, she should have said, "Here's the last photo I took before a gunman ripped the phone from my hand. P.S. Can someone check Rocky Glen? Please?"
Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2014 01:15 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
I just find it insane that they have a missing phone, a search dog alerting in a nearby wooded area, and a phone pinging away from the school (it may be in the school, but it's just as possible it is not), and no one takes the search further? Considering that phone is said to be in the hands of one of the shooters?? To not search the nearby, densely-wooded state park is just insane, in my book.

Unless perhaps they did, and PlasMan was just getting creative with reality. But I haven't found a single mention of the park yet in any of the reports.
Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2014 01:19 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
You know, this puts police response in an interesting light.

Think about this: Newown cops know the area best. But, being first on scene, they're probably inside the school, and staying there. State cops don't know the area necessarily, yet they're canvassing the neighborhood.

Maybe there should be (or is already?) a protocol calling for local cops to deal with area features they know well (such as parks, bridges, trails) in sussing out where an escaped murderer might go.

Did CSP cops know, for example, that the bridge to a densely wooded state park was very nearby, and on a trajectory that continued from the school, to a K9 track from the school and into the woods, and from the woods to the site of a phone ping? One report said the phone was pinging "inside Apex Glass."

That's three points along a straight line, then, and that line continues right to the bridge.
Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2014 02:58 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
I just find it insane that they have a missing phone, a search dog alerting in a nearby wooded area, and a phone pinging away from the school (it may be in the school, but it's just as possible it is not), and no one takes the search further? Considering that phone is said to be in the hands of one of the shooters?? To not search the nearby, densely-wooded state park is just insane, in my book.

Unless perhaps they did, and PlasMan was just getting creative with reality. But I haven't found a single mention of the park yet in any of the reports.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 54629843


Actually, apparently there was a rather large search, at least according to some documents I found in Book 3. These are from timelines that are based upon what recorded on police cruiser dash cams.


Book 3, 00054837.pdf
12:09:14 Troopers gather with LT (MSGT) Davis #053 to prepare for search for Kaitlin Roig's cell phone.

Book 3, 00055705.pdf
12:07:56 LT (MSGT) Davis and large group of Troopers gather to discuss the search for Kaitlin Roig's cell phone.

12:19:18 LT (MSGT) Davis sends Troopers out on a search for Kaitlin Roig's cell phone.

Book 3, 00056732.pdf
12:09:00 LT (MSGT) Davis gathers with large group of troopers prior to search for Kaitlin Roig's (teacher in room 12) cell phone.

It appears that no other significant events were documented from the dash cam videos after the search began.
Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2014 04:30 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
I just find it insane that they have a missing phone, a search dog alerting in a nearby wooded area, and a phone pinging away from the school (it may be in the school, but it's just as possible it is not), and no one takes the search further? Considering that phone is said to be in the hands of one of the shooters?? To not search the nearby, densely-wooded state park is just insane, in my book.

Unless perhaps they did, and PlasMan was just getting creative with reality. But I haven't found a single mention of the park yet in any of the reports.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 54629843


Actually, apparently there was a rather large search, at least according to some documents I found in Book 3. These are from timelines that are based upon what recorded on police cruiser dash cams.


Book 3, 00054837.pdf
12:09:14 Troopers gather with LT (MSGT) Davis #053 to prepare for search for Kaitlin Roig's cell phone.

Book 3, 00055705.pdf
12:07:56 LT (MSGT) Davis and large group of Troopers gather to discuss the search for Kaitlin Roig's cell phone.

12:19:18 LT (MSGT) Davis sends Troopers out on a search for Kaitlin Roig's cell phone.

Book 3, 00056732.pdf
12:09:00 LT (MSGT) Davis gathers with large group of troopers prior to search for Kaitlin Roig's (teacher in room 12) cell phone.

It appears that no other significant events were documented from the dash cam videos after the search began.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36903391


Oh I definitely agree with you that they searched for the phone (and thank you for gathering those refs, btw); just don't understand how the manhunt, especially, did not take the nearby national forest into account.
Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2014 04:51 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
I merged the files in each book into single documents for easier searching, so I've now searched basically the whole report (I believe, anyway), and I can't find anything that says that they ever found Roig's phone.

I also now strongly believe that it was Roig's phone that they thought was pinging at the glass company.

00028219.pdf - TRP Gregg
Shortly after rallying with TFC Christopher Kick #811 and TFC McGeever in the lot, TFC Bennechi and I were instructed by LT Davis to fall in on him. LT Davis relayed that Troop A had pinged a cell phone belonging to one of the victims and that its possible location was a glass company on Riverside Rd. I retrieved my rifle, formed up with TFC McGeever, TFC Bell, TFC Bennechi, and TPR Edward Vayan #1182, and headed to that location. Upon arrival, we cleared the building and surrounding area and found no signs of a suspect. We then headed back towards the scene on Dickinson Dr.



Also, a few teachers asked the police to prove their identities, but this was how Roig reacted when the police showed up:

00122964.pdf - TFC Faughnan
Tpr. Poach and I entered the classn?om and I approached a closed door in the corner which was block with a bookshelf. As Tpr. Poach posted on the door, I moved the bookshelf and ordered the individual(s) out of the closet and identifying myself as a State Trooper. After several verbal attempts, I attempted to open the door and observed the door handle was locked. I asked a tall police officer from an unknown town for his badge so that it could be slide under the door, so that the individual(s) would know we were the police. I received a master key; I was kneeling, Tpr. Poach was posted over me and the unknown officer was against the wall. I unlocked the door handle, as I attempted to push the door open it was forced close, the Unknown officer held the door open once I was able to push it open. When the door opened I observed numerous children in a small bathroom with a blonde female teacher holding the children back. The teacher began to yell at me "You're not the police, I don't believe you", she repeated this several times·and which time Tpr. Poach grabbed a couple of children and the others followed. As the children exited the bathroom they were passed off to the officers and escorted out of the classroom. I stayed kneeling and the teacher stayed motionless against the bathroom wall, continuously repeating "You're not the police, I don't believe you". Once the last child exited the bathroom I reached in and grabbed the teacher, later identified as Kaitlin Roig and she became
hysterical and I physically escorted Roig from the school exiting through a classroom door at the XXX corner.
Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2014 04:52 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
I merged the files in each book into single documents for easier searching, so I've now searched basically the whole report (I believe, anyway), and I can't find anything that says that they ever found Roig's phone.

I also now strongly believe that it was Roig's phone that they thought was pinging at the glass company.

00028219.pdf - TRP Gregg
Shortly after rallying with TFC Christopher Kick #811 and TFC McGeever in the lot, TFC Bennechi and I were instructed by LT Davis to fall in on him. LT Davis relayed that Troop A had pinged a cell phone belonging to one of the victims and that its possible location was a glass company on Riverside Rd. I retrieved my rifle, formed up with TFC McGeever, TFC Bell, TFC Bennechi, and TPR Edward Vayan #1182, and headed to that location. Upon arrival, we cleared the building and surrounding area and found no signs of a suspect. We then headed back towards the scene on Dickinson Dr.



Also, a few teachers asked the police to prove their identities, but this was how Roig reacted when the police showed up:

00122964.pdf - TFC Faughnan
Tpr. Poach and I entered the classn?om and I approached a closed door in the corner which was block with a bookshelf. As Tpr. Poach posted on the door, I moved the bookshelf and ordered the individual(s) out of the closet and identifying myself as a State Trooper. After several verbal attempts, I attempted to open the door and observed the door handle was locked. I asked a tall police officer from an unknown town for his badge so that it could be slide under the door, so that the individual(s) would know we were the police. I received a master key; I was kneeling, Tpr. Poach was posted over me and the unknown officer was against the wall. I unlocked the door handle, as I attempted to push the door open it was forced close, the Unknown officer held the door open once I was able to push it open. When the door opened I observed numerous children in a small bathroom with a blonde female teacher holding the children back. The teacher began to yell at me "You're not the police, I don't believe you", she repeated this several times·and which time Tpr. Poach grabbed a couple of children and the others followed. As the children exited the bathroom they were passed off to the officers and escorted out of the classroom. I stayed kneeling and the teacher stayed motionless against the bathroom wall, continuously repeating "You're not the police, I don't believe you". Once the last child exited the bathroom I reached in and grabbed the teacher, later identified as Kaitlin Roig and she became
hysterical and I physically escorted Roig from the school exiting through a classroom door at the XXX corner.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36903391


The above quotes are from Book 6
Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2014 04:58 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
Excellent - thank you for this!
Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2014 07:41 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
bump
Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2014 07:48 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
Roig hid her class really well

Book 6, 00026724.pdf - SGT Cario
It is my impression that this was my first time being in Room #12. On a first sweep I did not find anything on the east side of the room. I then heard a noise from the southwest corner of the room and recognized that a wheeled bookcase was likely concealing a bathroom. I froze when I heard the noise and Lt Vangheli looked at me. I moved toward the bookcase announcing "State Police." I pulled the bookcase aside and exposed the bathroom door. I could hear children talking and continued calling to them. An adult female voice asked for a badge. I couldn't get to my badge, but Lt Vangheli pulled his off and it was passed under the door. One of the children said "It is the police" after
the badge went under the door. The female voice then said something about us needing a key to get into the room. I tried to talk her into opening the door as one of the members of the CSP ESU ran out to find a key. I believe this ESU trooper was TFC Faughnan. After telling us to get a key, the bathroom became very quiet and I became suspicious that something was wrong. TFC Faughnan arrived with a key which he handed to me. I was so anxious that I bent the key in the lock. I was able to push the door in only a few inches before there was resistance. I realized that the children were packed so tightJy into the bathroom that I could not open the door. Most of the children in the bathroom appeared to be frightened and were crying. I had to squeeze the children out of the bathroom one by one and passed them off to waiting police officers and troopers. The last one out of the bathroom was the teacher, Kaitlin Roig. She was very emotional and I had to persuade her to come out. The troopers and officers then worked together to get the children out of the building as a group.
Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2014 07:59 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
"TFC Faughnan arrived with a key which he handed to me. I was so anxious that I bent the key in the lock. I was able to push the door in only a few inches before there was resistance. I realized that the children were packed so tightJy into the bathroom that I could not open the door."





He had to push the door "in"???? How the hell did she get all the kids in the tiny cramped room and then close the door behind them?!
Anonymous Coward
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02/20/2014 08:17 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
He had to push the door "in"???? How the hell did she get all the kids in the tiny cramped room and then close the door behind them?!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7659535


Sorry, I don't know exactly which file this is in atm because I combined all the files into a few large files, but this is from Roig's second interview, which was with TFC Peters on 4/25.

Roig stated that she told her kids to get into the bathroom. She had 15 students that day, one was absent. Roig stated that the children initially placed themselves into the bathroom. When she came in, Roig stated that she put the littlest one on the toilet paper dispenser for a moment and held her there with one arm as she moved the kids around. Roig stated that she picked up two or three children and placed them behind the door because she could not close it. At one point, there were 5-6 kids standing on the toilet, all at once, so she could make room, and only one child remained there the whole time. Roig stated that she stood along the wall near the toilet paper dispenser, across from the door, and she told the children in front of her to crouch down. Roig stated that she locked the door and left the light on. Prior to closing the door, Roig stated that she pulled the wheeled bookshelf in front of the door.
Stickywicket

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02/20/2014 08:45 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
He had to push the door "in"???? How the hell did she get all the kids in the tiny cramped room and then close the door behind them?!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7659535


Sorry, I don't know exactly which file this is in atm because I combined all the files into a few large files, but this is from Roig's second interview, which was with TFC Peters on 4/25.

Roig stated that she told her kids to get into the bathroom. She had 15 students that day, one was absent. Roig stated that the children initially placed themselves into the bathroom. When she came in, Roig stated that she put the littlest one on the toilet paper dispenser for a moment and held her there with one arm as she moved the kids around. Roig stated that she picked up two or three children and placed them behind the door because she could not close it. At one point, there were 5-6 kids standing on the toilet, all at once, so she could make room, and only one child remained there the whole time. Roig stated that she stood along the wall near the toilet paper dispenser, across from the door, and she told the children in front of her to crouch down. Roig stated that she locked the door and left the light on. Prior to closing the door, Roig stated that she pulled the wheeled bookshelf in front of the door.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36903391


I don't know since I haven't actually seen in the inside of the bathroom, but all of this does not seem even remotely possible.
Stickywicket

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02/20/2014 08:54 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
Forgot a few.

1. She takes picture of sunrise (ostensibly w/phone).
2. She and kids run into bathroom without her phone
3. She dashes for phone during lull and can't find it (a late-developing memory)
4. She leaves a message (with some phone) on her fiance's voicemail
5. She calls 911 somehow
6. She calls Vest--unknown if during or after event, but on 12/14 best we can tell
7. She borrows a phone at some point (anyone have this citation?)
8. She tells cops her phone was taken by a gunman
9. Her phone is pinged halfway to Rocky Glen
10. Her phone magically deactivates itself
11. Her sunrise picture is shown in the news (either that or a stock photo was posed as being hers)
12. There's no mention of her phone ever being found, so far
13. All the while, a perfectly good Blackberry was hanging out a few feet away
14. Courant runs story saying Roig called 911 from the Rm 12 landline
15. Courant retracts that point saying the call "did not come from Roig's room"
16. Report is released showing that the above call did indeed likely come from that room--but not from the landline, from...a cellphone.

Oy.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 54629843


Good summary. Thanks.
Anonymous Coward
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02/21/2014 12:16 AM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
"TFC Faughnan arrived with a key which he handed to me. I was so anxious that I bent the key in the lock. I was able to push the door in only a few inches before there was resistance. I realized that the children were packed so tightJy into the bathroom that I could not open the door."





He had to push the door "in"???? How the hell did she get all the kids in the tiny cramped room and then close the door behind them?!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7659535


Obviously you've never gotten in trouble as a child stuffing things into things ;)

It's quite easy to keep stuffing into a room/object whose entryway opens into the space; quite hard, on the other hand, to reverse the procedure.
Anonymous Coward
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02/21/2014 12:37 AM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
I've read a few different accounts of the rescue of Roig's class now, and I'm rather amused by the fact that each officer present seems to have cast himself as the main hero in the story in the reports. I don't think that means anything particularly significant; it's just funny.
KPM

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02/22/2014 08:49 AM

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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
Roig hid her class really well

Book 6, 00026724.pdf - SGT Cario
It is my impression that this was my first time being in Room #12. On a first sweep I did not find anything on the east side of the room. I then heard a noise from the southwest corner of the room and recognized that a wheeled bookcase was likely concealing a bathroom. I froze when I heard the noise and Lt Vangheli looked at me. I moved toward the bookcase announcing "State Police." I pulled the bookcase aside and exposed the bathroom door. I could hear children talking and continued calling to them. An adult female voice asked for a badge. I couldn't get to my badge, but Lt Vangheli pulled his off and it was passed under the door. One of the children said "It is the police" after
the badge went under the door. The female voice then said something about us needing a key to get into the room. I tried to talk her into opening the door as one of the members of the CSP ESU ran out to find a key. I believe this ESU trooper was TFC Faughnan. After telling us to get a key, the bathroom became very quiet and I became suspicious that something was wrong. TFC Faughnan arrived with a key which he handed to me. I was so anxious that I bent the key in the lock. I was able to push the door in only a few inches before there was resistance. I realized that the children were packed so tightJy into the bathroom that I could not open the door. Most of the children in the bathroom appeared to be frightened and were crying. I had to squeeze the children out of the bathroom one by one and passed them off to waiting police officers and troopers. The last one out of the bathroom was the teacher, Kaitlin Roig. She was very emotional and I had to persuade her to come out. The troopers and officers then worked together to get the children out of the building as a group.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36903391



This really begs the question, how well did she really have things under control......

If that had been the shooters they would have been discovered....
I'm easily satisfied with the very best~Winston Churchill~

~ENFJ-A~
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2014 11:04 AM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
This really begs the question, how well did she really have things under control......

If that had been the shooters they would have been discovered....
 Quoting: KPM


I was actually being sincere about how well she hid her class. There's a limit to how well anyone can hide 15 young and terrified children in a classroom.

I read in Chapman's report that he had swept the classroom earlier and believed it to be empty.

And none of the officers realized at first that the bookcase was concealing a bathroom.
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2014 03:00 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
I want to see this bookcase and how it was moved, how many books ,

And did they just have it "visually " blocking the bathroom door ? you could still walk behind it to get into the bathroom door perhaps ?
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2014 03:45 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
That's a good point about the stories contradicting each other. At the same time, though, our memories can be very unreliable. I honestly don't know where to draw the line between discrepancies that are normal because of faulty memories and discrepancies that are suspicious.

and Combes has another story (look at Book 6 / 00002060.pdf)
 Quoting: Fred 53301007

Fred, that's actually Vanghele's report. Combes was interviewing him. Here it is:

Book 6, 00002060.pdf, pg. 5 - Lt. Vanghele
I then went into another classroom which was north of the room with all the bodies in it. This room did not appear to have any bodies in it even though it was doser to the front of the school. Sgt. Carrio and I noticed some movement and sound from a closed door near the back of the room. I asked him "Did you see that?" He answered, "Yes" and we moved what appeared to be a cabinet away from the front of the door. We heard a female voice yell, "Who is out there?~' We all said "Police" at the same time. One of the State Troopers identified himself. The woman in the closet stated, "I don't believe you". I then introduced myself. The woman asked me to put my badge under the door. I immediately took off my badge and put it under the door. We asked her if she got the badge and to open the door. She did not answer any of our questions and would not communicate with us for approximately one minute. This led us to believe that another suspect might be in the closet with the woman. We asked her directly if someone else was in there with her but she did not answer us. Suddenly the door opened a crack and an officer made sure that it could not be closed on us. I saw a group of children looking at us from the closet. I was handed a little boy that I picked up. The other children were told to hold hands and to follow me and another Trooper who led the way. We told the children to close their eyes. The armed Trooper led us out the south entrance of the front hallway. I was in the lead with the young boy in my arms. I looked back and saw a young, blonde woman who was holding hands with two children and running with us. She was a first grade teacher who was the woman in the locked room. She was very hysterical and I asked her what her name was twice. She told me her name but I forgot it. I old her she had saved the childrens' lives.
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02/22/2014 03:54 PM
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Re: Sandy Hook: What gunman took Kaitlin Roig's cellphone?
Wow - extremely interesting, you guys. Great catch. Going go ck out Combes.


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