Oh Great!! What next?? LED bulbs not as eco-friendly as some might think | |
grumpier User ID: 1189758 China 01/13/2014 11:10 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Thanks Waterlilly. There is still the other problem with LED's that run on 110 or 220 Volt. Most of them have a small circuit that transforms the high Voltage 50 or 60 Hz to the needed low voltage DC. These circuits use Pulse width modulation on high frequencies. So the emitted light is pulsing with an invisible high frequency. Invisible does not mean that it has no effect on the human body. The least effect is that it creates a feeling of anxiety. If you think a thread is important enough for others to read, go to page one and click on the green pin!!! |
waterlily (OP) User ID: 51323695 United States 01/13/2014 11:31 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Thanks Waterlilly. Quoting: grumpier There is still the other problem with LED's that run on 110 or 220 Volt. Most of them have a small circuit that transforms the high Voltage 50 or 60 Hz to the needed low voltage DC. These circuits use Pulse width modulation on high frequencies. So the emitted light is pulsing with an invisible high frequency. Invisible does not mean that it has no effect on the human body. The least effect is that it creates a feeling of anxiety. Really! I did not know they were using pwm in them. PWM is everywhere anymore... Why do they need to convert the current to DC? I know I do not care for the light from them as a replacement for incandescent. We have them here and there in the house, and I don't like the feel of the light. Now I know why. Thanks for explaining that, and thanks for the bumps! *********** WaterLily *********** " Do I dare Disturb the universe?" -- T. S. Elliot, Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock ************************************* “We are as ignorant of the meaning of the dragon as we are of the meaning of the universe.” -- Jorge Luis Borges ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Pompey made his preparations for the war at the end of the winter, entered upon it at the commencement of spring, and finished it in the middle of the summer." -- Cicero, De Imperio Cn. Pompei |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 3866111 United States 01/13/2014 11:35 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
waterlily (OP) User ID: 51323695 United States 01/13/2014 11:42 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Ok enough, if the enviromental nuts want to help the environment, they should ponder removing their own existance, since a human has such a large carbon footprint. Quoting: centrist77 Not liking the quality of the light isn't the same as being an environmental nut. Even rednecks can have preferences. If I don't like them, I just don't buy them, which is what I suggest people do, let the market decide. We use them for nightlights and for outside lights on motion sensors. They are quite good for that . *********** WaterLily *********** " Do I dare Disturb the universe?" -- T. S. Elliot, Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock ************************************* “We are as ignorant of the meaning of the dragon as we are of the meaning of the universe.” -- Jorge Luis Borges ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Pompey made his preparations for the war at the end of the winter, entered upon it at the commencement of spring, and finished it in the middle of the summer." -- Cicero, De Imperio Cn. Pompei |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 51449558 United States 01/13/2014 11:46 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Thanks Waterlilly. Quoting: grumpier There is still the other problem with LED's that run on 110 or 220 Volt. Most of them have a small circuit that transforms the high Voltage 50 or 60 Hz to the needed low voltage DC. These circuits use Pulse width modulation on high frequencies. So the emitted light is pulsing with an invisible high frequency. Invisible does not mean that it has no effect on the human body. The least effect is that it creates a feeling of anxiety. Really! I did not know they were using pwm in them. PWM is everywhere anymore... Why do they need to convert the current to DC? I know I do not care for the light from them as a replacement for incandescent. We have them here and there in the house, and I don't like the feel of the light. Now I know why. Thanks for explaining that, and thanks for the bumps! Since the "bulb" of an LED has no filament like a traditional bulb but essentially is constructed like a diode that allows current to flow in only one direction, you need to convert the source voltage, (alternating current, AC, which flows both directions) into direct current, DC....flows only one direction. Even if the source voltage/current is DC to start with the diode will have its source current switch on and off very fast,...to our eyes it's always on but electronically the bulbs is off half the time, further reducing energy consumption. I guess you could have a continuous, always on LED but you would be sacrificing longevity and power efficiency. |
sevenmmm User ID: 29156528 United States 01/13/2014 11:55 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I converted our house over to 100% LED 3-4 years ago. The savings show up between fall and spring equinox in a big way. Had one burn out, it was a 2 watt bulb, and it probably should have had the juice reduced. It sure is nice to think I'm saving money and polluting less. Last Edited by sevenmmm on 01/13/2014 11:55 AM Decline of the US Empire. |
mr_brightside74 User ID: 48893975 United States 01/13/2014 11:59 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Thanks Waterlilly. Quoting: grumpier There is still the other problem with LED's that run on 110 or 220 Volt. Most of them have a small circuit that transforms the high Voltage 50 or 60 Hz to the needed low voltage DC. These circuits use Pulse width modulation on high frequencies. So the emitted light is pulsing with an invisible high frequency. Invisible does not mean that it has no effect on the human body. The least effect is that it creates a feeling of anxiety. That's only partly true. Yes they do use a voltage rectifier to convert AC to DC and then switch the high voltage DC to a voltage level the LED can handle. BUT... Most LED drivers use a capacitor to buffer the switch pulses resulting in an even output of light. Much the same way a traditional incandescent would also sllightly pulse at 50/60hz but because the incandescent does not illuminate or de-illuminate instantly the effects are not perceived by the eyes. What you are referring to are CFL/Flourescents which do have a noticeable flicker and can cause psychological effects. Mr. Brightside |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 41081648 United States 01/13/2014 12:01 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
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Anonymous Coward User ID: 41081648 United States 01/13/2014 12:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I live on a sailboat so I pretty much need LED lights so I don't run my battery bank down. I have a smart meter so I can see exactly what my voltage use is. The LED's are barely even noticeable compared to the incadescants. And I gives a shit about being green unless you're talking marihuana. The bottom line is power conservation. |
waterlily (OP) User ID: 51323695 United States 01/13/2014 01:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Thanks Waterlilly. Quoting: grumpier There is still the other problem with LED's that run on 110 or 220 Volt. Most of them have a small circuit that transforms the high Voltage 50 or 60 Hz to the needed low voltage DC. These circuits use Pulse width modulation on high frequencies. So the emitted light is pulsing with an invisible high frequency. Invisible does not mean that it has no effect on the human body. The least effect is that it creates a feeling of anxiety. Really! I did not know they were using pwm in them. PWM is everywhere anymore... Why do they need to convert the current to DC? I know I do not care for the light from them as a replacement for incandescent. We have them here and there in the house, and I don't like the feel of the light. Now I know why. Thanks for explaining that, and thanks for the bumps! Since the "bulb" of an LED has no filament like a traditional bulb but essentially is constructed like a diode that allows current to flow in only one direction, you need to convert the source voltage, (alternating current, AC, which flows both directions) into direct current, DC....flows only one direction. Even if the source voltage/current is DC to start with the diode will have its source current switch on and off very fast,...to our eyes it's always on but electronically the bulbs is off half the time, further reducing energy consumption. I guess you could have a continuous, always on LED but you would be sacrificing longevity and power efficiency. Thank you for the explanation. *********** WaterLily *********** " Do I dare Disturb the universe?" -- T. S. Elliot, Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock ************************************* “We are as ignorant of the meaning of the dragon as we are of the meaning of the universe.” -- Jorge Luis Borges ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Pompey made his preparations for the war at the end of the winter, entered upon it at the commencement of spring, and finished it in the middle of the summer." -- Cicero, De Imperio Cn. Pompei |
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Anonymous Coward User ID: 48420715 United States 02/13/2014 10:30 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I've been doing a lot of research on LED and CFL bulbs. They each have their own drawbacks. Like the other poster said, I really don't care too much how green they are if they save me money. I also think the the mercury dangers of cfl are exagerated. LED is probably the best option for the future, but the price still needs to come down a lot more. You can get good color from led or cfl if you are careful, but I HATE the long warm up time for cfl's to full brightness. You also have to be careful about either in enclosed fixtures as they are both sensitive to heat. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 50686740 United States 02/13/2014 10:36 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | [link to www.macrumors.com] If you care about this, you probably are a man feminist and get reemed by your "girlfriend's" strap-on™ Oh by the way, this fuck around he haw is all brought to you by Dodd-Frank. Two homosexuals that used to fuck each other, now they fuck you. Hope and change. |
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gomeroski User ID: 44983682 United States 04/27/2014 08:28 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Thanks Waterlilly. Quoting: grumpier There is still the other problem with LED's that run on 110 or 220 Volt. Most of them have a small circuit that transforms the high Voltage 50 or 60 Hz to the needed low voltage DC. These circuits use Pulse width modulation on high frequencies. So the emitted light is pulsing with an invisible high frequency. Invisible does not mean that it has no effect on the human body. The least effect is that it creates a feeling of anxiety. If this bothers you, don't even ask about TV. And if you do, there's the old cathode ray method we grew up and the modern flat screens with completely different technology. Takes "pulsing with an invisible high frequency" to a whole new level. Gotta get back to my spasms now. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 57373608 Australia 04/27/2014 08:30 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | BUT... Most LED drivers use a capacitor to buffer the switch pulses resulting in an even output of light. Much the same way a traditional incandescent would also sllightly pulse at 50/60hz but because the incandescent does not illuminate or de-illuminate instantly the effects are not perceived by the eyes. Quoting: mr_brightside74 well shoot if you take a close look at a modern LED bulb, you'll notice that the light isn't coming off a bare LED and going straight to your eye. you'll see a big glowy spot with several brighter circles where the LEDs are. and the reason why the big glowy spot is glowing, is that it is coated with phosphor. that's how they get the high efficiency with the color they want, they use high power LEDs to light up phosphor, which then glows the color they want the bulb to be. and of course it is a trivial electronics problem to have the phosphor glow last longer than whatever frequency anything might be cycling at. the tricky phosphor problem was to make it stop glowing quickly. but for a light bulb, you don't need it to stop quickly. and that's why when you turn off a modern LED bulb, it might keep glowing for a little while. |