Russia’s Central Bank: Bitcoin Users Can Face Jail Time

you are seeing their fear...The thing about bit coin will also be a person's proof of innocent... Got love bitcoin.... I'm now buying more, it scares the money changers to death...

love it...

thank you for your explaination.... that is exactly what all countries monetary system is based upon...nothing..

except Lybia, Venezuela, any other country the US has bombed to oblivion... those countries monetary is based upon gold. to save the gas dollar we had to place their monetary system back on the gasoline dollar monetary system so all currency is the same...fake bitcoin...I'll go with the original bitcoin instead of the fake.

See this is what I am talking about right here. They DO come from thin air because their value is based on nonsense. Bitcoins are "mined" (created) by having a computer (now they use asics) to solve complex algorithms (work). Whereas my ridiculous treecoins are created by climbing trees (work). Their values are conceived by nothing but nonsense. Who cares if you can solve some algorithm or can climb trees. That does not give it any value as a currency.

I have no idea how these other 80 plus cryptocurrencies are created but I can bet they come into existence by some similar nonsense.

I agree with you on all points except the latter part. Congress already has the power to coin money so there is absolutely no need for foreign central banks, cryptocurrencies or anything else for that matter.

In fact although somewhat off topic but closely related to what we are discussing, have you ever taken a close look at our currency. Take note especially of the new $100 bills as these stick out like a sore thumb as an example.


If you will note there are two seals on the bills clearly separated buy borders which actually indicates two separate bills. On the left you will find the illegal FDR seal and on the right the legitimate US Treasury seal. Look into lawful money and 12 U.S. CODE § 411 for more info.

You're missing the point. Climbing trees serves no purpose other than getting a coin in your treecoin example.

This is from [link to bitcoin.org]
"Mining is a distributed consensus system that is used to confirm waiting transactions by including them in the block chain. It enforces a chronological order in the block chain, protects the neutrality of the network, and allows different computers to agree on the state of the system. To be confirmed, transactions must be packed in a block that fits very strict cryptographic rules that will be verified by the network. These rules prevent previous blocks from being modified because doing so would invalidate all following blocks. Mining also creates the equivalent of a competitive lottery that prevents any individual from easily adding new blocks consecutively in the block chain. This way, no individuals can control what is included in the block chain or replace parts of the block chain to roll back their own spends."

Actually you just proved my point. The statement above proves there is nothing of value backing the cryptocurrency. Like I mentioned in the previous post, congress already has the power to coin money. We don't need central bankers or cryptocurrencies or anything else.

I didn't prove your point at all. You cannot seem to grasp or understand what miners actually contribute to the integrity, security and maintenance of the bitcoin network. The only thing backing your fiat money is debt and worryingly you seem quite content with that.

You apparently are not listening. I understand that statement perfectly well but that does NOT give it any intrinsic value whatsoever. Everybody and their brother already knows our current fiat currency is also backed by nothing but that's not the point. The fact of the matter is YOUR CRYPTO CURRENCY IS ALSO BACKED BY ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. I don't know how much clearer I can make that statement.

As I mentioned in previous posts but apparently you want to ignore those, Congress has always had and still does have the power to coin money. We don't need foreign central bankers or CRYPTO CURRENCIES or anything else.

I don't understand what you are actually arguing anymore. You go on about how it has no intrinsic value yet you acknowledge that your nations fiat also holds no value.
Bitcoin offers it's users banking transparency without the excess fees, privacy and security concerns associated with standard banking and payments. This alone adds value over a fiat currency.
Ultimately a currency is only of use if people are prepared to give you things in exchange for it and although it may fill your eyes with tears, people are quite happily exchanging items such as cars, houses and land for Bitcoin.

In response to your ill informed point about your Congress holding the power to issue and control money I'll refer you to 2 of your former presidents.

Andrew Jackson said,
"If congress has the right under the Constitution to issue paper money, it was given them to use themselves, not to be delegated to individuals or corporations."

Then Woodrow Wilson went on to sign the federal reserve act in 1913 and was later quoted as saying,

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."

So do you still think your Congress really controls the money?

My last point with you on this matter and then I'm done. Just because you have something bad (fiat currency issued by foreign central banks) does NOT mean you replace it with something even WORSE (make believe cryptocurrencies) with NO intrinsic value. They are outright scams. Just look at all of them being created by any idiot and their brother. [link to coinmarketcap.com]

You will NEVER convince me to get into these scams. I will make this prediction right here and now so save this post for future reference. All of these fake make believe cryptocurrencies will crash and burn and be worth nothing in the near future.

On the other matter the people always had and still do have the power to control money but very few understand how. You are not a US citizen but for those that are, take a close look at the new $100 bill while looking into lawful money and 12 U.S. CODE § 411.

So what does have intrinsic value? Does gold? If so, why? What makes it intrinsically valuable?

Bitcoin as a technology has value. The protocol enables secure and trusted transfers of information between two people who otherwise have no reason for trust. The bitcoin protocol solves a long known mathematical problem of double spending electronic information. THAT is valuable.

The currency is simply a manifestation of the actual protocol. But certainly, the ability to transfer currency with minimal fees to practically anyone in the world is also valuable in its own right. If you're a migrant worker looking to send money back to your family over seas, it is incredibly valuable to have an option that guarantees your family will receive nearly all of that money (unlike the current system where 20/30/40% of that money can be taken as fees... with higher fees being in place to poorer locations that need the money the most). That is value.

Of course, considering you've blatantly ignored every post here that's pointed this value out (and continue to ramble and pretend like you didn't see it), I can only assume you'll do the same here.

But I'd love to hear why you don't think any of the above is valuable.

I have not ignored it and have clearly stated that that does not make it valuable in any way shape or form, period. Just because you say otherwise does not make it so. I have stated this over and over but you don't want to accept it. That's fine, go for it if you think it has value. I on the other hand do not. If anyone can start a fake coin (there's over 80 to date) how can you possibly think that is a valid form of currency?

As for gold or any other form of currency (including cryptos), I already told you we don't need anything else but you don't want to hear that. We have everything we need right now but few understand this. Look at the new $100 bill because this is the clearest example to see. Take note of the two seals and understand something about borders and what they legally mean.

Ah, I see you've resorted to speaking in mysteries and riddles rather than just being up front with your revelations.

I always find that's what trustworthy people with legitimate ideas do.

Riddles and mysteries, that's quite comical. I clearly stated what to look for and what US code to look into. I'm not going to do the research for you. In fact there is a huge thread on this forum that has already covered this subject in detail.

The ones who are untrustworthy are the ones who are invested in these fake currencies and are trying to pump them up by conning others to get into them. I've been around the block a few time kiddo you aren't fooling me.

If your entire point is that the current monetary system is not backed by gold. Well no shit.

I'm just not sure what that matters.

What is the intrinsic value of gold? Do you even know why gold was considered valuable in the first place? Because it had properties (easily measurable, hard to counterfeit, relatively easy to divide, etc) that made it useful as a means of exchange.

That does NOT mean gold is intrinsically valuable, it was only valuable to begin with BECAUSE it made a useful form of currency. Otherwise, there is nothing particularly special about it. It was originally given value because it was useful as a medium of exchange, period.

Unless i'm missing your whole point and you also think gold is pointless and we should exist in a barter system, or some nonsense like that.

Please, enlighten me as to what is intrinsically valuable.

Apparently you have a comprehension problem. My entire point is what I just stated in my previous post. Look into it.

Your previous post just said to look into your previous post before that one...

You're just talking circles never actually getting anywhere.

You call the current monetary policy "fake currency". Well what is real currency?

What is intrinsic value, and what has it?

These are very simple questions yet you refuse to answer them. And please don't make another post that says "I already made my point" because no, you clearly haven't.

You either answer these very simple questions in your next post or your lack of a direct answer tells everyone that you're a troll who doesn't understand these concepts.

I'm sorry but you are going to have to point out where I said this exactly. I'll give you a hint I never said that. I did however call all cryptocurrencies fake and make believe. Before you go running off looking through my posts, fyi fiat does not mean fake.

Now since you are a bit slow we'll go over what I said previously and I'll try to make it clear for you.

<Riddles and mysteries, that's quite comical.>

First and foremost I was responding to your ridiculous accusation with a short statement.


<I clearly stated what to look for and what US code to look into. I'm not going to do the research for you. In fact there is a huge thread on this forum that has already covered this subject in detail.>

Since you don't know how to look back a few posts I'll make this easy for you. [link to lmgtfy.com]

Because you do not know how to find previous threads concerning this matter on GLP here's the link.
Thread: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul


<The ones who are untrustworthy are the ones who are invested in these fake currencies and are trying to pump them up by conning others to get into them. I've been around the block a few time kiddo you aren't fooling me.>

I don't know how to make you understand this any better than what I already stated here. The only mistake I made was assuming you knew that I was referring to fake CRYPTOcurrencies.


All other points are moot concerning what does or does not have intrinsic value as we don't need anything else if you look into what lawful money is.

This.

Trinity or whatever deepo derpy underdog mavericky twat-speaketh-truth-to-power admin this site operator goes by, actually banned the word 'bitcoin' when it was under 100 dollars. He's too busy trying to use gold for something.

Sigh, you're arguing semantics. What the US considers lawful money can be changed at the drop of a hat by changing the law (and in fact, courts have upheld time and time again that federal reserve notes ARE lawful money... right or wrong, that's now the law). Legal tender, lawful money, its all word games made up by people. None of it has any real intrinsic value to humanity. If the US were to disappear tomorrow, no one would care about any of our notes. US Notes, Federal Reserve Notes, its all garbage that is only as valuable as the people that believe in it and support it.

And THAT is why you still ENTIRELY miss the point of why bitcoin is important.

Forget bitcoin as a currency for a moment and just consider the actual technology. The protocol and the mathematical problem it solves (the problem of ensuring trust among two parties where there otherwise is no reason to be any... a mathematical problem that has plagued engineers for decades and was finally solved by the protocol). That is significant and valuable.

The currency is simply one implementation of that protocol. It can be used for so many other things.

You can't see the forest from the trees. The value of this technology is not tied to any one government or individual, it is valuable to humanity as a whole. The ability to create trust among two non trusting parties (without involving a 3rd intermediary) and prevent "double spending" (this doesn't just refer to money. It simply refers to sending the same electronic information to two different people at the same time) is groundbreaking.

It may not seem all the special, that I can send a "bitcoin" to you and have everyone in the world agree that transaction occurred with no 3rd party involvement, but I assure you it is a significant leap forward technologically and took decades to figure out. It is a technology that is not going to go away any time soon. Stop focusing on the currency aspect and realize that is merely the first manifestation of the underlying protocol.

Or you know, do whatever the hell you'd like and keep your head buried in the sand arguing semantics and misunderstanding what is important (namely, things with utility value like this technology).

Is that right? So people don't wear gold? Gold isn't used as a conductor in TVs, computers, cell phones etc? Gold isn't used in dentistry? Get a clue.

What you're describing (golds usefulness in electronics and the like) is the utility value of gold. And I hate to break it to you, but that value is FAR less than its price.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. Just realize that the majority of golds value is based on essentially the same nothing that most currencies are.

As for people wearing gold, why do you think they do that? It is a status statement. That is the very definition of "faith based". People think gold is valuable, so they wear it to show their value, which in turn makes people think gold is valuable, etc, etc. It's a feedback loop of perceived value, nothing more. If you just look at golds actual usefulness (like those electronics), its utility value still minimal.

Now, why did gold gain this reputation as valuable to begin with? It goes back to the point I made yesterday... for thousands of years, gold had the properties that made it a useful as a currency! It it hard to counterfeit, easy to measure (since it is an element, it always ways the same. Which means it can be measured by its weight). It is fairly easily divided (can be made into different sized coins, etc). It doesn't oxidize or corrode.

As humans, we need currency. We need some way to exchange goods and services for other goods and services. Gold had all the properties needed to be used as said currency. And so, it had UTILITY. So it was used as currency for thousands of years BECAUSE it made a useful currency, not because of some mythical intrinsic value of the gold itself.

So it's used as currency, and then people associate gold with value and status. That is why people wore gold then (and why they continue to wear it). Not because of some intrinsic value, but because it had properties that made it good as a medium of exchange, which gave it value.

This idea of intrinsic value is one that has been falsely pinned on gold because people forget why it became valuable in the first place.

Fast forward to the technological age, and golds usefulness as a form of currency has been trumped by technological advances. We can exchange value better and more efficiently than we ever could with gold (gold still does some things better. There is a limited supply, which makes it better in that way than fiat, and it doesn't corrode, which makes it better in that regard than bitcoins which can "corrode" by being lost or the internet going down". But all in all, technology allows us to do what gold does better than gold ever could.

As a result, the actual utility value of gold is almost non existent. All the things that originally made gold valuable no longer apply. It's value is almost entirely built on reputation and perceived value. It is very much faith based.

I am not entirely closed minded about the technology. While I do see your points and agree with many, in it's current state I can not see it used AS a currency at this time.

Oh no doubt, there are a lot of challenges ahead (both technologically and as far as governments and potential blowback/regulation go). I'm not some bittard yelling to the moon.

I do not know what the future holds for bitcoin as a currency. It could be great and continue to grow, or it could fail in any number of ways. I understand anyone being hesitant in that regard.

However, what I do know is that the underlying technology is here to stay. You can not un-invent this. That's what I'd like people to understand. The protocol behind the currency is significant and will have major implications for life and society going forward. The utility value of the actual protocol is through the roof.

Bitcoin the currency is unique in that it is the first attempt at making use of the underlying protocol. That gives it both advantages and disadvantages and means there will be any number of unforseen challenges and opportunities ahead.

For my part, I am not tech savy enough to make use of the protocol and take advantage of the potential of this technology. But I can see it's utility (it's like seeing IP/TCP and the internet in the early 90's and the implications of such a disruptive technology, but not personally having the coding skills to put it to use). So instead, I will support bitcoin and keep my eye out on other companies/people/projects that attempt to make use of the protocol. They won't all be successful, but if one fails it matters not in the large scheme of things. The technology is here to stay.

Are these all shills on this thread? I was under the impression bitcoin was reliable with an open sourced algorithm and would top out at rougly 21 million 'coins'..

Ya this shit is so fucked up..

Glad some of us don't live in Russia