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UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387

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< DL >Moderator
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
why are people still believing tis loggool tard
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 53518028


What did l0ggol say?
Anonymous Coward
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04/05/2014 04:08 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
...


Most sources put it at 2 Ukrainian deaths.
 Quoting: Lime Flavoured Redux

What sources? (Not speaking about the civilian sniper.)
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


[link to www.bbc.co.uk]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56397876

You are using the BBC as a source? This is the same organization that said building 7 had collapsed when it hadn't actually collapsed yet.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45481459


one of the first links on google, that is all.
it has dates and confirms the death.
Anonymous Coward
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04/05/2014 04:12 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Euromaidan PR @EuromaidanPR
Crimean Berkut who were beating & killing #Ukrainians during protests,will now serve in Moscow [link to news.liga.net] … pic.twitter.com/fOqrfWRTuj
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5383047


EuromaidanPR - LMAO. That article doesn't say anything about any Berkut killing anybody - whatever anonymous person holds that account just makes stuff up and tweets it.

All part of the propaganda war to create hate and draw attention away from what the junta in Kiev is doing (and, in terms of investigating the Maidan crimes, NOT doing).
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


Excellent videos plainly showing the Berkut shooters on Feb 20th:

1) First, as they are shooting from the high ground of October Palace

[link to www.youtube.com]

2) The killers retreating from October Palace to Instytutska street(shooting from both locations):
[link to www.youtube.com]

(from 1:30 on you can see the police behind the barricade shooting)

and
[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]


and 3) probably most importantly, the killers having moved to the concrete barriers on Instytutska street then shoot many many more of the protestors from there, from a safe location -
[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5383047

You have posted this three times now, prior times I have responded showing how these videos are carefully crafted propaganda (because most of the video was likely recorded by whatever group actually did the sniping) and you just ignore that.

People who keep spouting propaganda, and won't reply to counter-arguments, are known as "shills".
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


It's evident that calling himself Sun Dancer does not like a truth.
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04/05/2014 04:13 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Sun will you go on the record and say no troops will enter Ukraine over the next few weeks/months?
 Quoting: < DL >

That would be foolish of me since Russia has frequently stated they are prepared to go in to protect Russians, sometimes using the phrase "massacre" but not always. For example, if Ukraine and Moldova blockade Transnistria, or Ukraine shuts off utilities to Crimea, or Ukraine tries to prevent by force the people of southeastern Ukraine voting to re-unite with Russia, I am not confident in predicting how Russia would react. There could be other provocations by Ukraine, some elements of Ukrainian society, by NATO, etc. which could change the calculus. Certainly I expect them to enter Crimea, not sure if you consider that Ukraine or Russia.

But I don't see Russia launching an unprovoked invasion to seize all of Ukraine, nope.
Sun_dancer
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04/05/2014 04:14 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
...


EuromaidanPR - LMAO. That article doesn't say anything about any Berkut killing anybody - whatever anonymous person holds that account just makes stuff up and tweets it.

All part of the propaganda war to create hate and draw attention away from what the junta in Kiev is doing (and, in terms of investigating the Maidan crimes, NOT doing).
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


Excellent videos plainly showing the Berkut shooters on Feb 20th:

1) First, as they are shooting from the high ground of October Palace

[link to www.youtube.com]

2) The killers retreating from October Palace to Instytutska street(shooting from both locations):
[link to www.youtube.com]

(from 1:30 on you can see the police behind the barricade shooting)

and
[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]


and 3) probably most importantly, the killers having moved to the concrete barriers on Instytutska street then shoot many many more of the protestors from there, from a safe location -
[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5383047

You have posted this three times now, prior times I have responded showing how these videos are carefully crafted propaganda (because most of the video was likely recorded by whatever group actually did the sniping) and you just ignore that.

People who keep spouting propaganda, and won't reply to counter-arguments, are known as "shills".
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


It's evident that calling himself Sun Dancer does not like a truth.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56462418


Because Sun Dancer has torn it apart several times already, but the poster still reposts it lol it's comical to watch
Anonymous Coward
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04/05/2014 04:14 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Poland's PM says NATO to boost military presence within weeks

[link to www.RoYtUrZ.com]


change the name of the forbidden news agency to the correct one
Sun_dancer

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04/05/2014 04:15 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Ukraine ready to buy Russian gas for USD 268 per 1,000 cm

Economy April 05, 23:07 UTC+4

KIEV, April 05, 21:49 /ITAR-TASS/. Ukraine is ready to buy Russian natural gas at a price of 268 U.S. dollars per 1,000 cubic metres, parliament-appointed Prime Minister Arseny Yatsenyuk said on Saturday, April 5.

He said Ukraine “does not accept” Russia’s decision to raise the price of gas from April 1 and regards it as “political pressure”.

“Political pressure will not pass. We do not accept the price of 500 U.S. dollars. Ukraine is ready to continue buying natural gas at the price that was in effect since the beginning of the year - 268 U.S. dollars. This is an acceptable and balanced price,” Yatsenyuk said.

He reiterated Kiev’s readiness to “make all payments for the previous gas supplies” and was waiting for Russia’s reply.

[link to en.itar-tass.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56397876


Since when does the person not paying their creditors/suppliers get to dictate their pricing options?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 55875488


It's called "bargaining". Do you buy shit at any price that is offered to you?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16259808

But there's a contract in place - and in the article linked above, you will see that even the junta government was involved in the negotiation of that contract.

Ukraine is really saying: we refuse to pay the prices we agreed to pay. That's not negotiation, that's blackmail (since last time there was a dispute, Ukraine ended up disrupting gas supplies to Europe as well).
Sun_dancer
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04/05/2014 04:20 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
loggol says moi troops increased rediness nowhere has this ben confirmed just loggol spouting more bullshit

Does loggol actually get paid to do this crap
Anonymous Coward
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04/05/2014 04:29 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Because Sun Dancer has torn it apart several times already, but the poster still reposts it lol it's comical to watch
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 55875488


False. There is nothing to tear apart.






Excellent videos plainly showing the Berkut shooters on Feb 20th:

1) First, as they are shooting from the high ground of October Palace

[link to www.youtube.com]








2) The killers retreating from October Palace to Instytutska street(shooting from both locations):
[link to www.youtube.com]



(from 1:30 on you can see the police behind the barricade shooting)

and
[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]







and 3) probably most importantly, the killers having moved to the concrete barriers on Instytutska street then shoot many many more of the protestors from there, from a safe location -
[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5383047


I believe there were 86 officers with gun shot wounds and 11 deaths. Were they firing upon their colleagues?
< DL >Moderator
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04/05/2014 04:30 PM

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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
loggol says moi troops increased rediness nowhere has this ben confirmed just loggol spouting more bullshit

Does loggol actually get paid to do this crap
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 53518028


There are also reports that troops of the Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs attached to the Central Regional Command of Internal Troops have been ordered to increase their readiness. This is a worrying sign, as the war-time task of troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs is to pacify populations in occupied territory. The raised readiness of Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs troops could therefore indicate the Kremlin’s preparations to actually invade Ukraine – and to take measures to establish and maintain control of the occupied Ukrainian territories.

[link to www.rusi.org (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
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04/05/2014 04:33 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Because Sun Dancer has torn it apart several times already, but the poster still reposts it lol it's comical to watch
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 55875488


False. There is nothing to tear apart.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5383047


Please return to page 2187 of this forum, your last attempt at exploiting these videos, and try again
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04/05/2014 04:33 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Sun will you go on the record and say no troops will enter Ukraine over the next few weeks/months?
 Quoting: < DL >

That would be foolish of me since Russia has frequently stated they are prepared to go in to protect Russians, sometimes using the phrase "massacre" but not always. For example, if Ukraine and Moldova blockade Transnistria, or Ukraine shuts off utilities to Crimea, or Ukraine tries to prevent by force the people of southeastern Ukraine voting to re-unite with Russia, I am not confident in predicting how Russia would react. There could be other provocations by Ukraine, some elements of Ukrainian society, by NATO, etc. which could change the calculus. Certainly I expect them to enter Crimea, not sure if you consider that Ukraine or Russia.

But I don't see Russia launching an unprovoked invasion to seize all of Ukraine, nope.
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


Do you really consider Ukraine not allowing a referendum to join Russia in the east to be sufficient provocation for an invasion? The aren't allowing it now so by that logic Russia could go into Ukraine at any time. Of course you want to ridicule any claims Russia is in hair trigger status but it doesn't make sense to do that given the number of things you consider an adequate pretext. If all of those things are sufficient triggers then it wouldn't make sense for Russia not to be ready to go in on short notice. Exactly what western sources are saying they are observing. I am no expert but it makes no sense to dismiss those reports based on your own answer.
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04/05/2014 04:34 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Because Sun Dancer has torn it apart several times already, but the poster still reposts it lol it's comical to watch
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 55875488


False. There is nothing to tear apart.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5383047


You have made this post 4 times previously in last 3-4 days:
Thread: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387 (Page 2200)
Thread: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387 (Page 2189)
Thread: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387 (Page 2171)
Thread: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387 (Page 2170)

I responded twice:
Thread: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387 (Page 2172)
Thread: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387 (Page 2171)

To each response you said nothing, but just repost the same manipulative videos with incorrect descriptions no less.

Last Edited by Sun_dancer on 04/05/2014 04:35 PM
Sun_dancer
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
I believe there were 86 officers with gun shot wounds and 11 deaths. Were they firing upon their colleagues?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56397876


No, unfortunately some of the maidaners had guns that morning also[very stupid]. They had at least 2 double barrel 12 guage shotguns and 2 scoped air rifles.

For this reason, the Berkut could legitimately try for a defense of justifiable use of deadly force.
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04/05/2014 04:36 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
If Gazprom cuts the gas to all EU, that will be the start of a major trade/resource war. The only ones who will definitely win are the Oil Sheikhs in the Gulf. The oil will probably surpass 200$/barrel.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 54888721


Except that nobody will sell oil for dollars any more. You will need rubles or yuan - or gold. Nobody will accept worthless U.S. dollars as payment for anything.
< DL >Moderator
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Sun will you go on the record and say no troops will enter Ukraine over the next few weeks/months?
 Quoting: < DL >

That would be foolish of me since Russia has frequently stated they are prepared to go in to protect Russians, sometimes using the phrase "massacre" but not always. For example, if Ukraine and Moldova blockade Transnistria, or Ukraine shuts off utilities to Crimea, or Ukraine tries to prevent by force the people of southeastern Ukraine voting to re-unite with Russia, I am not confident in predicting how Russia would react. There could be other provocations by Ukraine, some elements of Ukrainian society, by NATO, etc. which could change the calculus. Certainly I expect them to enter Crimea, not sure if you consider that Ukraine or Russia.

But I don't see Russia launching an unprovoked invasion to seize all of Ukraine, nope.
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


Do you really consider Ukraine not allowing a referendum to join Russia in the east to be sufficient provocation for an invasion? The aren't allowing it now so by that logic Russia could go into Ukraine at any time. Of course you want to ridicule any claims Russia is in hair trigger status but it doesn't make sense to do that given the number of things you consider an adequate pretext. If all of those things are sufficient triggers then it wouldn't make sense for Russia not to be ready to go in on short notice. Exactly what western sources are saying they are observing. I am no expert but it makes no sense to dismiss those reports based on your own answer.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56469203


This is exactly what I was going to say. hesright
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
loggol says moi troops increased rediness nowhere has this ben confirmed just loggol spouting more bullshit

Does loggol actually get paid to do this crap
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 53518028


There are also reports that troops of the Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs attached to the Central Regional Command of Internal Troops have been ordered to increase their readiness. This is a worrying sign, as the war-time task of troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs is to pacify populations in occupied territory. The raised readiness of Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs troops could therefore indicate the Kremlin’s preparations to actually invade Ukraine – and to take measures to establish and maintain control of the occupied Ukrainian territories.

[link to www.rusi.org (secure)]
 Quoting: < DL >


why would Ukraine post their military positions on a pdf? not so smart if they really think invasion is imminent
Anonymous Coward
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04/05/2014 04:43 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Sun dancer when he sees those vids:

[link to www.reactiongifs.com]
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Ukraine ready to buy Russian gas for USD 268 per 1,000 cm

Economy April 05, 23:07 UTC+4

KIEV, April 05, 21:49 /ITAR-TASS/. Ukraine is ready to buy Russian natural gas at a price of 268 U.S. dollars per 1,000 cubic metres, parliament-appointed Prime Minister Arseny Yatsenyuk said on Saturday, April 5.

He said Ukraine “does not accept” Russia’s decision to raise the price of gas from April 1 and regards it as “political pressure”.

“Political pressure will not pass. We do not accept the price of 500 U.S. dollars. Ukraine is ready to continue buying natural gas at the price that was in effect since the beginning of the year - 268 U.S. dollars. This is an acceptable and balanced price,” Yatsenyuk said.

He reiterated Kiev’s readiness to “make all payments for the previous gas supplies” and was waiting for Russia’s reply.

[link to en.itar-tass.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56397876


Since when does the person not paying their creditors/suppliers get to dictate their pricing options?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 55875488


It's called "bargaining". Do you buy shit at any price that is offered to you?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16259808


Utilities don't bargain. This isn't Mexico. (or Croatia lol) Credit cards don't bargain. Loan and mortgages don't bargain. I will though call Hydro and tell them I don't want to pay their prices, we should negotiate. I will then stock up on kerosene or I am going to fucking freeze in the dark.
 Quoting: steelseries



This is eastern europe, where we bargain about eveyfuckingthing. Especially about NEW price. And you are not here but there, wherever the fuck that is, jerky. if you wanna buy shit from Russians at their price.,.go for it but don't imagine that everyone has to be you..hm..or do imagine it, what do I care.
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04/05/2014 04:47 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Sun will you go on the record and say no troops will enter Ukraine over the next few weeks/months?
 Quoting: < DL >

That would be foolish of me since Russia has frequently stated they are prepared to go in to protect Russians, sometimes using the phrase "massacre" but not always. For example, if Ukraine and Moldova blockade Transnistria, or Ukraine shuts off utilities to Crimea, or Ukraine tries to prevent by force the people of southeastern Ukraine voting to re-unite with Russia, I am not confident in predicting how Russia would react. There could be other provocations by Ukraine, some elements of Ukrainian society, by NATO, etc. which could change the calculus. Certainly I expect them to enter Crimea, not sure if you consider that Ukraine or Russia.

But I don't see Russia launching an unprovoked invasion to seize all of Ukraine, nope.
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


Do you really consider Ukraine not allowing a referendum to join Russia in the east to be sufficient provocation for an invasion? The aren't allowing it now so by that logic Russia could go into Ukraine at any time. Of course you want to ridicule any claims Russia is in hair trigger status but it doesn't make sense to do that given the number of things you consider an adequate pretext. If all of those things are sufficient triggers then it wouldn't make sense for Russia not to be ready to go in on short notice. Exactly what western sources are saying they are observing. I am no expert but it makes no sense to dismiss those reports based on your own answer.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56469203

Sufficient for me, or sufficient for Russia? I just don't know the answer, hence my lack of a prediction. Do I think they are likely to invade? No, but it also depends on how "Russian parts" are treated (i.e., the parts of Ukraine carved from Russia by the Communists). Personally I think if Ukraine tries to prevent a referendum or federalization there is a good chance there will be a civil war, and this chance goes up quite a bit if the right-wing parties make significant gains over the last election or other anti-Russian provocative actions are taken. In all likelihood parts of Ukraine are already preparing for that, and this is consistent with the report of the arrests of 25 men around Luhansk(?) with 300 machine guns today (if that has any credence). Now if there is a civil war, I cannot rule out Russia intervening, of course not.

I never argued that Russia was incapable of invading Ukraine, on relatively short notice - but they could do that with troops stationed in their barracks. My point always was there are no hidden troops now massed on the border poised to invade, and I still don't think there are. Of course this situation can change, just like US or Israel could try to bomb Iran next month.

Last Edited by Sun_dancer on 04/05/2014 04:52 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Sun dancer when he sees those vids:

[link to www.reactiongifs.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5383047


sun dancer responses= professional and information

your responses= childish and repetitive

You have the US govt mentality of "the more I say something the truer it becomes"
Sun_dancer

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04/05/2014 04:51 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Sun dancer when he sees those vids:

[link to www.reactiongifs.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5383047

Actually I find the videos fascinating. What I find idiotic is how people with an obvious agenda can twist things to suit this agenda and repeat it time and again, while avoiding any intelligent discussion of it.
Sun_dancer
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04/05/2014 04:53 PM

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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Sun dancer when he sees those vids:

[link to www.reactiongifs.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5383047


sun dancer responses= professional and information

your responses= childish and repetitive

You have the US govt mentality of "the more I say something the truer it becomes"
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 55875488


And this warrants the following response. .


hesright
...I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him......
Anonymous Coward
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04/05/2014 04:55 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Sun dancer when he sees those vids:

[link to www.reactiongifs.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5383047


sun dancer responses= professional and information

your responses= childish and repetitive

You have the US govt mentality of "the more I say something the truer it becomes"
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 55875488


It's definitively professional. And misinformation is information too. So..you are correct in your assessment of a dancer.

To be childish is ultimate virtue. "You got to be like a child in order to get in kingdom of heaven" or something like that. You would know that if you are not commie :)
RBR

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04/05/2014 04:56 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
just repost the same manipulative videos with incorrect descriptions no less.
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


They are not maniplative videos. In fact they are part of the very extensive evidence that has been collected.

The fact is that they plainly show the Berkut firing at the protestors over an extended period of time that morning, and you dont like that fact, being a Russian shill whose job it is to support your allies(the Berkut).

Each time you talk shit with your Russian shill lies, Im going to repost the videos, so have it your way...






Excellent videos plainly showing the Berkut shooters on Feb 20th:

1) First, as they are shooting from the high ground of October Palace

[link to www.youtube.com]








2) The killers retreating from October Palace to Instytutska street(shooting from both locations):
[link to www.youtube.com]



(from 1:30 on you can see the police behind the barricade shooting)

and
[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]







and 3) probably most importantly, the killers having moved to the concrete barriers on Instytutska street then shoot many many more of the protestors from there, from a safe location -
[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5383047


If they really are Berkut then Russia defiantly needs to be stopped.
Anonymous Coward
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04/05/2014 04:59 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Sun will you go on the record and say no troops will enter Ukraine over the next few weeks/months?
 Quoting: < DL >

That would be foolish of me since Russia has frequently stated they are prepared to go in to protect Russians, sometimes using the phrase "massacre" but not always. For example, if Ukraine and Moldova blockade Transnistria, or Ukraine shuts off utilities to Crimea, or Ukraine tries to prevent by force the people of southeastern Ukraine voting to re-unite with Russia, I am not confident in predicting how Russia would react. There could be other provocations by Ukraine, some elements of Ukrainian society, by NATO, etc. which could change the calculus. Certainly I expect them to enter Crimea, not sure if you consider that Ukraine or Russia.

But I don't see Russia launching an unprovoked invasion to seize all of Ukraine, nope.
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


Do you really consider Ukraine not allowing a referendum to join Russia in the east to be sufficient provocation for an invasion? The aren't allowing it now so by that logic Russia could go into Ukraine at any time. Of course you want to ridicule any claims Russia is in hair trigger status but it doesn't make sense to do that given the number of things you consider an adequate pretext. If all of those things are sufficient triggers then it wouldn't make sense for Russia not to be ready to go in on short notice. Exactly what western sources are saying they are observing. I am no expert but it makes no sense to dismiss those reports based on your own answer.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56469203

Sufficient for me, or sufficient for Russia? I just don't know the answer, hence my lack of a prediction. Do I think they are likely to invade? No, but it also depends on how "Russian parts" are treated (i.e., the parts of Ukraine carved from Russia by the Communists). Personally I think if Ukraine tries to prevent a referendum or federalization there is a good change there will be a civil war, and this chance goes up quite a bit if the right-wing parties make significant gains over the last election or other anti-Russian provocative actions are taken. In all likelihood parts of Ukraine are already preparing for that, and this is consistent with the report of the arrests of 25 men around Luhansk(?) with 300 machine guns today (if that has any credence). Now if there is a civil war, I cannot rule out Russia intervening, of course not.

I never argued that Russia was incapable of invading Ukraine, on relatively short notice - but they could do that with troops stationed in their barracks. My point always was there are no hidden troops now massed on the border poised to invade, and I still don't think there are. Of course this situation can change, just like US or Israel could try to bomb Iran next month.
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


You have absolutely know knowledge of Russian troop placements. Your argument is with assessments about Russian intentions which cannot be discerned completely from troop movements. I am not really that upset about them but it is naïve to say that troops stationed in their barracks could move in anywhere near the time that forward deployed troops could move. These are matters for technical analysts and neither of us has the hard data yet you insist that your conclusion is credible.

To repeat, the situation is rife with tension and the Russian intentions are unclear, as you admit. It would make no sense in such a situation for Russia not to have deployed its troops to shorten the reaction time if a decision to go in was made. The west claims to be observing that. Like everything else we can't independently verify it could be BS but there is no good argument at this point that those claims aren't plausible.
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Sun Dancer vs. 27 shills w/ persona management software and yet Sun Dancer is still winning.

Govt shills have now become like 5 thousand dollar toilet paper in the 80's.

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04/05/2014 05:07 PM

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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
...


Since when does the person not paying their creditors/suppliers get to dictate their pricing options?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 55875488


It's called "bargaining". Do you buy shit at any price that is offered to you?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16259808


Utilities don't bargain. This isn't Mexico. (or Croatia lol) Credit cards don't bargain. Loan and mortgages don't bargain. I will though call Hydro and tell them I don't want to pay their prices, we should negotiate. I will then stock up on kerosene or I am going to fucking freeze in the dark.
 Quoting: steelseries



This is eastern europe, where we bargain about eveyfuckingthing. Especially about NEW price. And you are not here but there, wherever the fuck that is, jerky. if you wanna buy shit from Russians at their price.,.go for it but don't imagine that everyone has to be you..hm..or do imagine it, what do I care.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56470551


Well then, just go with that. Buy your natural gas from the US. I am sure they can just fly that stuff over on the space shuttle. lol

I just don't care.
I identity as Conservative. I just want to be left alone.
Anonymous Coward
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04/05/2014 05:10 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Sun Dancer vs. 27 shills w/ persona management software and yet Sun Dancer is still winning.

Govt shills have now become like 5 thousand dollar toilet paper in the 80's.

Project On Government Oversight
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56439487


Translation: 'I am Russian shill 'Sun Dancer' on one of my alternate IP proxies that I use to spam this forum with Russian shillery.
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
...
I never argued that Russia was incapable of invading Ukraine, on relatively short notice - but they could do that with troops stationed in their barracks. My point always was there are no hidden troops now massed on the border poised to invade, and I still don't think there are. Of course this situation can change, just like US or Israel could try to bomb Iran next month.
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


You have absolutely know knowledge of Russian troop placements. Your argument is with assessments about Russian intentions which cannot be discerned completely from troop movements. I am not really that upset about them but it is naïve to say that troops stationed in their barracks could move in anywhere near the time that forward deployed troops could move. These are matters for technical analysts and neither of us has the hard data yet you insist that your conclusion is credible.

To repeat, the situation is rife with tension and the Russian intentions are unclear, as you admit. It would make no sense in such a situation for Russia not to have deployed its troops to shorten the reaction time if a decision to go in was made. The west claims to be observing that. Like everything else we can't independently verify it could be BS but there is no good argument at this point that those claims aren't plausible.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56469203

I also have no knowledge of Chinese troop movements - however, if someone is claiming time and time again that China has 100,000 troops outside Los Angeles poised for invasion, for weeks on end, without any evidence, then I don't believe it. Make sense? Especially when this "someone" has on many occasions lied/"been wrong" about such things.

As to what "makes sense", everyone can speculate. But I submit it is not possible to hide moving 100,000 troops back and forth from the border in relatively densely populated Western Russia, because it would be exposed either by citizens, tourists, the countless Ukrainians who are living there and have cameras, the numerous overflights that have happened (and are indeed ongoing, with the cooperation of Russia), the several journalists from NBC, NY Times and elsewhere who have gone looking for these troops, or the countless satellites circling our planet with very sophisticated imaging (including thermal imaging) capabilities.

You can believe what you want, even Santa Claus or the tooth fairy if you want :). I need evidence. And, I was just answering a question.

Last Edited by Sun_dancer on 04/05/2014 05:12 PM
Sun_dancer


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