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UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387

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Anonymous Coward
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
...

Maybe you haven't been on this thread but we were getting multiple accusations of this "massing", "ready to invade in x hours", etc. a day, from NATO and US, from different media. For example (look for term "poised"):

[link to www.cnn.com]
[link to www.nytimes.com]
[link to www.debka.com]
[link to www.haaretz.com]

I just called b.s. on it, given there was no evidence and, if it were true, evidence would be readily available. Remember: it is an accusation of an ongoing event, not some historical event.
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


Of course the western press was full of implications as to Russia's intent. The issue is more about capabilities and response times and that part of the story remains in dispute.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56469203

Really what this is about from my perspective is agitating people, being provocative, increasing tension. I think whoever is behind the propaganda - whoever is telling the proven sycophant Rasmussen to make these statements - is trying to incite hatred and confrontation. The question for me is, why? Well, we may find out the way they end up channeling the hatred they are creating. Or they may decide, they have made their point and call off the dogs.

Why do I think it is purely aggravating? Because everyone knows Russia can invade Ukraine. They in no way have to be poised on the border - everyone knows they can be, whether it takes 1 day or 3 days or 5 days. In any case nobody can or will do anything about it - if they were, they would have done something long ago.

So this is just games. And the fact that the troops really aren't there, that is the key to my opinion that what is happening is a planned, scientific program of radicalization of particularly Ukrainians but also of Europeans and Americans against Russia.

Whoever is making these policy decisions, I am completely against them. I want to live in a world of peace and understanding. I don't want to live in a world where some small cabal centered around Washington, D.C. and Brussels can radicalize the world and start conflicts at their whim, just because they decide to spout lies to manipulate the masses.

[ EDIT: Add to this that I think in general the agenda of this cabal - call them TPTB or whatever - is not my agenda, at all. And in particular, I wish very very very much that Ukraine does not descend into civil war - but that is where I think this cabal is pushing them. ]
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


People have experienced too much in recent years to quickly fold to blanket media propaganda. This is being proved often lately, for instance with Syria, just last year. The bourgeoisie is moving very fast, possibly too fast to drag the public with it.
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04/05/2014 10:18 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
...


Of course the western press was full of implications as to Russia's intent. The issue is more about capabilities and response times and that part of the story remains in dispute.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56469203

Really what this is about from my perspective is agitating people, being provocative, increasing tension. I think whoever is behind the propaganda - whoever is telling the proven sycophant Rasmussen to make these statements - is trying to incite hatred and confrontation. The question for me is, why? Well, we may find out the way they end up channeling the hatred they are creating. Or they may decide, they have made their point and call off the dogs.

Why do I think it is purely aggravating? Because everyone knows Russia can invade Ukraine. They in no way have to be poised on the border - everyone knows they can be, whether it takes 1 day or 3 days or 5 days. In any case nobody can or will do anything about it - if they were, they would have done something long ago.

So this is just games. And the fact that the troops really aren't there, that is the key to my opinion that what is happening is a planned, scientific program of radicalization of particularly Ukrainians but also of Europeans and Americans against Russia.

Whoever is making these policy decisions, I am completely against them. I want to live in a world of peace and understanding. I don't want to live in a world where some small cabal centered around Washington, D.C. and Brussels can radicalize the world and start conflicts at their whim, just because they decide to spout lies to manipulate the masses.
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


I am so fucking tired of seeing your name every time I look at this page.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56478196


So stop looking at this page? Evidently your parents were fucking FAILS at life and couldnt raise a handle bar...
 Quoting: RedEyeJedi


As if your opinion meant anything to me. Now go back to sniffing sundancer's crack.
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
just repost the same manipulative videos with incorrect descriptions no less.
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


They are not maniplative videos. In fact they are part of the very extensive evidence that has been collected.

The fact is that they plainly show the Berkut firing at the protestors over an extended period of time that morning, and you dont like that fact, being a Russian shill whose job it is to support your allies(the Berkut).

Each time you talk shit with your Russian shill lies, Im going to repost the videos, so have it your way...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5383047


ever heard of rubber bullets? ever heard of common sense? ever heard that killing of protesters fuels the cause of the protesters and they gain more support...certainly berkut wouldn't gain anything from shooting don't you think? no? ah sorry I don't speak sheep sheep
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 55874494


Somebody gained Crimea..for now. And lot of Berkut dudes bolted there. I am sure it's just a coincidence and that's why I am coincidence theorist.
Anonymous Coward
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04/05/2014 10:23 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
...

Really what this is about from my perspective is agitating people, being provocative, increasing tension. I think whoever is behind the propaganda - whoever is telling the proven sycophant Rasmussen to make these statements - is trying to incite hatred and confrontation. The question for me is, why? Well, we may find out the way they end up channeling the hatred they are creating. Or they may decide, they have made their point and call off the dogs.

Why do I think it is purely aggravating? Because everyone knows Russia can invade Ukraine. They in no way have to be poised on the border - everyone knows they can be, whether it takes 1 day or 3 days or 5 days. In any case nobody can or will do anything about it - if they were, they would have done something long ago.

So this is just games. And the fact that the troops really aren't there, that is the key to my opinion that what is happening is a planned, scientific program of radicalization of particularly Ukrainians but also of Europeans and Americans against Russia.

Whoever is making these policy decisions, I am completely against them. I want to live in a world of peace and understanding. I don't want to live in a world where some small cabal centered around Washington, D.C. and Brussels can radicalize the world and start conflicts at their whim, just because they decide to spout lies to manipulate the masses.
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


I am so fucking tired of seeing your name every time I look at this page.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56478196


So stop looking at this page? Evidently your parents were fucking FAILS at life and couldnt raise a handle bar...
 Quoting: RedEyeJedi


As if your opinion meant anything to me. Now go back to sniffing sundancer's crack.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56478196


lmao kissup dasbier
Anonymous Coward
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04/05/2014 10:28 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
...

Maybe you haven't been on this thread but we were getting multiple accusations of this "massing", "ready to invade in x hours", etc. a day, from NATO and US, from different media. For example (look for term "poised"):

[link to www.cnn.com]
[link to www.nytimes.com]
[link to www.debka.com]
[link to www.haaretz.com]

I just called b.s. on it, given there was no evidence and, if it were true, evidence would be readily available. Remember: it is an accusation of an ongoing event, not some historical event.
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


Of course the western press was full of implications as to Russia's intent. The issue is more about capabilities and response times and that part of the story remains in dispute.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56469203

Really what this is about from my perspective is agitating people, being provocative, increasing tension. I think whoever is behind the propaganda - whoever is telling the proven sycophant Rasmussen to make these statements - is trying to incite hatred and confrontation. The question for me is, why? Well, we may find out the way they end up channeling the hatred they are creating. Or they may decide, they have made their point and call off the dogs.

Why do I think it is purely aggravating? Because everyone knows Russia can invade Ukraine. They in no way have to be poised on the border - everyone knows they can be, whether it takes 1 day or 3 days or 5 days. In any case nobody can or will do anything about it - if they were, they would have done something long ago.

So this is just games. And the fact that the troops really aren't there, that is the key to my opinion that what is happening is a planned, scientific program of radicalization of particularly Ukrainians but also of Europeans and Americans against Russia.

Whoever is making these policy decisions, I am completely against them. I want to live in a world of peace and understanding. I don't want to live in a world where some small cabal centered around Washington, D.C. and Brussels can radicalize the world and start conflicts at their whim, just because they decide to spout lies to manipulate the masses.

[ EDIT: Add to this that I think in general the agenda of this cabal - call them TPTB or whatever - is not my agenda, at all. And in particular, I wish very very very much that Ukraine does not descend into civil war - but that is where I think this cabal is pushing them. ]
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


I don't disagree that the subject has become a focal point for inflammatory propaganda. Last week essentially proved that the west has no real interest in a diplomatic solution. That was my take on all of the prattling about Russian troops.

On the other hand if I really thought that Russia was anywhere near the standing start posture that prevailed when this whole Maidan coup exploded I would lose a lot of respect for Putin and the Russian leadership generally. That would mean that when operations in the Ukraine mainland began they would be noticed by NATO from the beginning stages with an excessive lead time and little doubt about Russian intentions once things started moving into place.

That is no way to play the game. It makes no sense in such a tense situation not to position troops, material and special forces to react quickly to all contingencies. It is the west that is judgemental about this, not me. They are making a big deal out of it to avoid meaningful diplomacy. My guess is that there has to be some element of truth underlying the propaganda because Russia would be foolish if there weren't. It is that simple. There is no need to be defensive about it because it is a side issue.

If military action is to be avoided a realistic diplomatic solution has to emerge. Right now it seems that the west would prefer that Putin decide that he has no choice. That will enable them to move on to the next stage of their plans.
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04/05/2014 10:29 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
15:51 05.04.2014 Interfax-Ukraine
SBU exposes armed group plotting armed seizure of power in Luhansk region



Ukraine's Security Service (SBU) has detained in Luhansk region an armed sabotage group of 15 people who planned an armed seizure of power in the region.

As the results of a large-scale special operation, the SBU detained 15 active members of a sabotage ring, seized 300 machineguns, one anti-tank grenade launcher, five pistols, Molotov cocktails and a large amount of smooth-bore guns and cold steel weapons.

[link to en.interfax.com.ua]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56397876


Today, Svoboda holds a larger chunk of its nation's ministries (nearly a quarter, including the prized defense portfolio) than any other far-right party on the continent. Ukraine's deputy prime minister represents Svoboda (the smaller, even more extreme "Right Sector" coalition fills the deputy National Security Council chair), as does the prosecutor general and the deputy chair of parliament -- where the party is the fourth-largest. And Svoboda's fresh faces are scarcely different from the old: one of its freshmen members of parliament is the founder of the "Joseph Goebbels Political Research Centre" and has hailed the Holocaust as a "bright period" in human history.


Anybody expect this inquiry to be objective???

Yeah, Putin is new Hitler, right!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56460049


Hitler was socialist. Putin is more on the left than Svodoba/Right Sector. You had too much Antifascist NOB "education" in your youth and now everything is upside down in your little "antiNazi" head.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16259808


Not more than those near Kumrovec!
Upside down or not, wait for the new austerity measures to pay the Ukrainian bankruptcy!
Nice work, Pavelicu!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56460049


Pavelic? Wasn't that a guy that stood up for his right? We had austerity since 1914. But at least now there is coffee, cooking oil and detergent in the shops.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Sun dancer you sure pissed off some hotshots here. They hate cause you search for the EVIDENCE! Keep the good job!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56477132


You are hot shot too, don't practice false modesty...and explain to guys here how NATO located Serbian Army during bombing of Serbia over Kosovo. I think NATO detected 1 or was it 2 real tanks and few fake planes? And Russians are more stupid than Serbs, they wouldn't be able to conceal shit, eh?
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Ukraine’s Inconvenient Neo-Nazis

The U.S. media’s take on the Ukraine crisis is that a “democratic revolution” ousted President Viktor Yanukovych, followed by a “legitimate” change of government. So, to mention the key role played neo-Nazi militias in the putsch or to note that Yanukovych was democratically elected – and then illegally deposed – gets you dismissed as a “Russian propagandist.”

But Ukraine’s neo-Nazis are not some urban legend. Their presence is real, as they swagger in their paramilitary garb through the streets of Kiev, displaying Nazi insignias, honoring SS collaborators from World War II, and hoisting racist banners, including the white-power symbol of the Confederate battle flag.

[link to consortiumnews.com]
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04/05/2014 10:57 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Please read this Sun and comment on it. I'm really interested how you might see this. Also the term 'shale gas' are you talking about Canada's or about Nat Gas which is being pursued aggressively in the states.
[link to www.presstv.ir]
 Quoting: DawaSatso


[link to www.youtube.com]
Not the best source but great illustration starting at 1:12
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 55875488

Both are consistent with my understanding, though I am not an expert. I don't think that it wouldn't work technically, but it will be expensive and take quite some time to build. So at least in the meantime, dependence is there.

As to whether sufficient supply capacity remains above what has already been allocated or sold, I don't know, estimates of total supply and recoverable supply vary greatly.
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Taras Kuzio @TarasKuzio
After accusations of involvement in "anti-terrorist operation" FSB admit to having been in Kyiv in February. [link to www.pravda.com.ua] …
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5383047


EU was threatening sanctions long before Feb. 18. Even in December already. I was living in Kiev at the time, so I am quite aware of what was happening.

 Quoting: Sun_dancer


isee
Nature begins with reason and ends with experience; Change begins with experience and ends with reason.
Sun_dancer

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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387

...
certainly berkut wouldn't gain anything from shooting don't you think? no? ...:
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5383047


Somebody gained Crimea..for now. And lot of Berkut dudes bolted there. I am sure it's just a coincidence and that's why I am coincidence theorist.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 55874494

It is a fair point. No one can be excluded as a suspect. That is why the investigation must be open - must include Russia and EU and be handled by competent professionals from the various country's agencies, not by politicians - and certainly not by politicians who are suspects and who benefited massively from the subsequent coup. But the way the investigation is going, it looks very much like a cover up.

Remember, too, that the current government is violating their written agreement (which, ironically, was demanded by them, as they were the "opposition" at the time and were worried Yanukovych would manipulate the investigation) of Feb. 21 in which they demanded that both them (the opposition, with Yanukovych being in that role now) and EU be involved in the investigation.

Last Edited by Sun_dancer on 04/05/2014 11:14 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
...

That would mean that when operations in the Ukraine mainland began they would be noticed by NATO from the beginning stages with an excessive lead time and little doubt about Russian intentions once things started moving into place.

That is no way to play the game. It makes no sense in such a tense situation not to position troops, material and special forces to react quickly to all contingencies.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56469203

Are you arguing that the troop build-up must be true because it makes sense for Russia to be ready to invade Ukraine? I can argue why it doesn't make sense: for example, they have no intent to invade; they have enough forces to respond to any foreseeable emergency; and/or they do not want to aggravate tensions more than necessary. They have conducted drills (among others, they moved 150,000 troops 1,000 km in a short time) to prove to themselves, NATO and Ukraine that they can mobilize vast numbers of troops quickly if they want to. And there is nothing NATO can do in that time short of starting a war against Russia, which they can do in any event if Russia invades Ukraine - but they would not.

But the main point is that, there are no massed troops. So far all the evidence we have is 20 tanks on a train from some weeks ago and 4 helicopters at a military base.
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Where are the ORIGINAL people that started this thread. CAN WE PLEASE GET THEM BACK because as of late this thread is full of Shills and people that believe their own bullshit... LUIS WHERE YOU AT!!!
 Quoting: RedEyeJedi

Well it seems quite some people are unhappy with me writing here, but I don't really want to stop at the moment, so Luis, please make a decision (sorry to put you in the spot but it is your thread): if you ask I will start a new thread on this topic, with no hard feelings whatsoever.

I have not wanted to split the thread because it is better with different viewpoints, and more contributors, but also I don't want to take over the thread or antagonize other valued contributors (those who just come here to moan, you know, you can just select "Ignore" to not even see someone's posts).

If you have an opinion please send it to Luisport in a private message and I will await his decision - I hope this thread does not become any more about me than what it has already.

In the meantime though I may post a bit more here :).

Last Edited by Sun_dancer on 04/05/2014 11:28 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Sun dancer you sure pissed off some hotshots here. They hate cause you search for the EVIDENCE! Keep the good job!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56477132


You are hot shot too, don't practice false modesty...and explain to guys here how NATO located Serbian Army during bombing of Serbia over Kosovo. I think NATO detected 1 or was it 2 real tanks and few fake planes? And Russians are more stupid than Serbs, they wouldn't be able to conceal shit, eh?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56480353

The question is: if you don't know that they are there, how do you know they are there? I mean, on what basis is the claim being made?

And again, what difference does it make if they are there or not - esp. if they have been there for the number of weeks you have been making the claim (when it would take only a few days to get to the border if the claim were false)?
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
... I don't want to take over the thread or antagonize other valued contributors ....


I hope this thread does not become any more about me than what it has already.

...

In the meantime though I may post a bit more here :).
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


Nature begins with reason and ends with experience; Change begins with experience and ends with reason.
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
...

That would mean that when operations in the Ukraine mainland began they would be noticed by NATO from the beginning stages with an excessive lead time and little doubt about Russian intentions once things started moving into place.

That is no way to play the game. It makes no sense in such a tense situation not to position troops, material and special forces to react quickly to all contingencies.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56469203

Are you arguing that the troop build-up must be true because it makes sense for Russia to be ready to invade Ukraine? I can argue why it doesn't make sense: for example, they have no intent to invade; they have enough forces to respond to any foreseeable emergency; and/or they do not want to aggravate tensions more than necessary. They have conducted drills (among others, they moved 150,000 troops 1,000 km in a short time) to prove to themselves, NATO and Ukraine that they can mobilize vast numbers of troops quickly if they want to. And there is nothing NATO can do in that time short of starting a war against Russia, which they can do in any event if Russia invades Ukraine - but they would not.

But the main point is that, there are no massed troops. So far all the evidence we have is 20 tanks on a train from some weeks ago and 4 helicopters at a military base.
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


I am arguing that Russia would be foolish not to be making preliminary preparations for invasion if that were a real contingency. You admit that it is possible that Russia will decide to invade but deride any reports of concrete preparations. Why even threaten? It actually makes an invasion a more likely if you let the other side think you aren't serious when you are.

The more serious flaw is your assumption that time is somehow a luxury to be squandered in real-time military operations. I am no expert but I seriously doubt that any real planner would be so cavalier about beginning a major operation with a long lead time from a standing start just because of diplomatic statements and amid exercises and saber-rattling deployments from the other side. The quicker defined objectives are achieved the better.

You can declare as fact what you cannot know all you want. Luckily this is a thread on a message board and you aren't betting your life on it.
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Sun dancer you sure pissed off some hotshots here. They hate cause you search for the EVIDENCE! Keep the good job!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56477132


You are hot shot too, don't practice false modesty...and explain to guys here how NATO located Serbian Army during bombing of Serbia over Kosovo. I think NATO detected 1 or was it 2 real tanks and few fake planes? And Russians are more stupid than Serbs, they wouldn't be able to conceal shit, eh?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56480353

The question is: if you don't know that they are there, how do you know they are there? I mean, on what basis is the claim being made?

And again, what difference does it make if they are there or not - esp. if they have been there for the number of weeks you have been making the claim (when it would take only a few days to get to the border if the claim were false)?
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


On the basis of a fact that Putin was laudmouthing his intentions of "protecting" Russians that live outside Russia. That was also a "basis" of his "liberation" of Crimea. Neither "liberation" nor "protection" is possible without large military force ready and at hand. It seems what you are really saying is that Putin is dumber than used brick.
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04/06/2014 01:19 AM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Sun dancer you sure pissed off some hotshots here. They hate cause you search for the EVIDENCE! Keep the good job!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56477132


You are hot shot too, don't practice false modesty...and explain to guys here how NATO located Serbian Army during bombing of Serbia over Kosovo. I think NATO detected 1 or was it 2 real tanks and few fake planes? And Russians are more stupid than Serbs, they wouldn't be able to conceal shit, eh?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56480353

The question is: if you don't know that they are there, how do you know they are there? I mean, on what basis is the claim being made?

And again, what difference does it make if they are there or not - esp. if they have been there for the number of weeks you have been making the claim (when it would take only a few days to get to the border if the claim were false)?
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


On the basis of a fact that Putin was laudmouthing his intentions of "protecting" Russians that live outside Russia. That was also a "basis" of his "liberation" of Crimea. Neither "liberation" nor "protection" is possible without large military force ready and at hand. It seems what you are really saying is that Putin is dumber than used brick.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56480353


Forgot to add that I don't really know if they are there or not. But fact is that You do know that they are NOT there. :) While plain old common sense is screaming that they must be there.
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Anyway, I am pretty convinced that Sun Dancer is one of Village People. He was born, bred and educated in Potemkin Village. :)
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Ukraine’s Inconvenient Neo-Nazis

The U.S. media’s take on the Ukraine crisis is that a “democratic revolution” ousted President Viktor Yanukovych, followed by a “legitimate” change of government. So, to mention the key role played neo-Nazi militias in the putsch or to note that Yanukovych was democratically elected – and then illegally deposed – gets you dismissed as a “Russian propagandist.”

But Ukraine’s neo-Nazis are not some urban legend. Their presence is real, as they swagger in their paramilitary garb through the streets of Kiev, displaying Nazi insignias, honoring SS collaborators from World War II, and hoisting racist banners, including the white-power symbol of the Confederate battle flag.

[link to consortiumnews.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26066721


If you are shilling for me I would not be happy. Nazi, Racist, white power is Ok but where is Bloodthirsty nationalists, far right extremists, antifreedom fascists and likes?
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
...

That would mean that when operations in the Ukraine mainland began they would be noticed by NATO from the beginning stages with an excessive lead time and little doubt about Russian intentions once things started moving into place.

That is no way to play the game. It makes no sense in such a tense situation not to position troops, material and special forces to react quickly to all contingencies.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56469203

Are you arguing that the troop build-up must be true because it makes sense for Russia to be ready to invade Ukraine? I can argue why it doesn't make sense: for example, they have no intent to invade; they have enough forces to respond to any foreseeable emergency; and/or they do not want to aggravate tensions more than necessary. They have conducted drills (among others, they moved 150,000 troops 1,000 km in a short time) to prove to themselves, NATO and Ukraine that they can mobilize vast numbers of troops quickly if they want to. And there is nothing NATO can do in that time short of starting a war against Russia, which they can do in any event if Russia invades Ukraine - but they would not.

But the main point is that, there are no massed troops. So far all the evidence we have is 20 tanks on a train from some weeks ago and 4 helicopters at a military base.
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


Ok so this is only 20 tanks on a train and 4 military helicopters at a military base. Thank god doom off. Thank you Sun Dancer, this whole situation has been a non-event.
Anonymous Coward
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Greece
04/06/2014 01:52 AM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
...

Really what this is about from my perspective is agitating people, being provocative, increasing tension. I think whoever is behind the propaganda - whoever is telling the proven sycophant Rasmussen to make these statements - is trying to incite hatred and confrontation. The question for me is, why? Well, we may find out the way they end up channeling the hatred they are creating. Or they may decide, they have made their point and call off the dogs.

Why do I think it is purely aggravating? Because everyone knows Russia can invade Ukraine. They in no way have to be poised on the border - everyone knows they can be, whether it takes 1 day or 3 days or 5 days. In any case nobody can or will do anything about it - if they were, they would have done something long ago.

So this is just games. And the fact that the troops really aren't there, that is the key to my opinion that what is happening is a planned, scientific program of radicalization of particularly Ukrainians but also of Europeans and Americans against Russia.

Whoever is making these policy decisions, I am completely against them. I want to live in a world of peace and understanding. I don't want to live in a world where some small cabal centered around Washington, D.C. and Brussels can radicalize the world and start conflicts at their whim, just because they decide to spout lies to manipulate the masses.
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


I am so fucking tired of seeing your name every time I look at this page.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56478196


So stop looking at this page? Evidently your parents were fucking FAILS at life and couldnt raise a handle bar...
 Quoting: RedEyeJedi


As if your opinion meant anything to me. Now go back to sniffing sundancer's crack.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56478196

hey trash..get lost out of glp
Sun_dancer

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United States
04/06/2014 02:21 AM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
VoiceOfRussia: Russia’s major banks begin consultations on national payment system

"Russia’s major banks have begun consultations on the creation of a national payment system in the country. "[T]his would mean consolidating the existing settlement systems to create such a system within a month or two …using the terminals of all leading Russian banks without crossing the border...."

""This can be done inside the country and this will cover about 90 percent of payments our citizens make annually. This can be done ... without issuing new cards ...."

[link to voiceofrussia.com]
Sun_dancer
Shuracane

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Australia
04/06/2014 02:43 AM

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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
ok guys no more bullshit guesses.

To figure out whats going on all you have to do is add up whats been happening lately in Ukraine and the world.
Basically heres how it is.
1/ The Eu and America backed a coup in Ukraine and put in radical right wingers eg Nazi sympathisers, they follow the nazi ideology.
2/ Russia seen this as an American and NWO lead move to take yet another ex soviet state and put corrupt officials in power that the Eu and America eg the NWO could Bribe and control.
By opening an IMF loan and a central bank controlled by the NWO.
3/ Russia put in troops to secure Ukraine eg elf Defence Forces, by means of stealth in plain sight eg no Russian insignia on their uniforms but obviously Russian. Brilliant move as it let Russia take Ukraine and America and Nato could do nothing without proof the forces were Russian.
4/ Putin has kept the Majority of the forces used in Crimea on the Border of Ukraine and added to them slowly so as not to escalate to quickly. Until he can create either a false flag or stir up dissent among the Russians and Russian speakers by raising gas prices and making the Crimea look far better than Ukraine so as to stir resentment against the Ukraine Right party eg Nazis in power.
5/ Putin is a master of Chess and he is 100% thinking in advance, he will wait till the gas prices bite and in the mean time he will stir hatred against the current Ukraine leaders and other provinces in Ukraine. Once the rioting and violence begins, which it will he will go into the areas that he has destabilised and again will try to use the same process eg Self Defence Forces. Putin has no choice, the Bankers, globalists, America, Eu, and Nato eg the NWO are making their final push at a World Government but need Russia and China out of the picture. Putin knows this and he either puts up a defence now by securing his borders or the NWO will slowly but surely take every border country or province and block him in. Once Russia is blocked in the NWO will create unrest in Russia as they have been doing for years to try and collapse the Country from within. The only problem is Putin is wise to the game and is playing by his rules.
5/ This will eventually come to a point of no return and war will be the outcome. We are seeing the financial beginnings and the movement of military resources for a third world war. The NWO are only needing one thing and that is for Putin to shoot first. They need a bad guy to blame for a global financial collapse. But they need it to build up and look like they tried to avert a war so after all is said and done they can come out of it as the good guys. Public opinion is already against America and the Eu so they cannot go to war yet. We seen them bow to public opinion about syria and the end result was no WAR. If the general public get swayed to believe Russia is the bad guy then the NWO will use NATO and go to War with Russia. If Russia does not invade as the NWO want, then no doubt we will see some type of False Flag attack on a NATO member to kick it all off.
It is quite obvious the NWO want and need a large war. All the talk about Russian Troops buiding up on Ukraines borders is proof. If Russia wanted to invade they would have done it while Ukraine was weak just after the protests. Russia and Putin are not stupid they know exactly what is going on and will not give a reason for NATO to attack them. The only way the NWO get their war and a big bad Russian enemy is via the good ole tried asnd true FALSE FLAG. Enter the missing malaysian plane. Ukraine and the missing flight are connected. We will soon see how it all plays out, but it seems there is no escaping a Third World War. Russia will not back down, if they do its the end for them.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26066721
Chile
04/06/2014 03:19 AM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
ok guys no more bullshit guesses.

To figure out whats going on all you have to do is add up whats been happening lately in Ukraine and the world.
Basically heres how it is.
1/ The Eu and America backed a coup in Ukraine and put in radical right wingers eg Nazi sympathisers, they follow the nazi ideology.
2/ Russia seen this as an American and NWO lead move to take yet another ex soviet state and put corrupt officials in power that the Eu and America eg the NWO could Bribe and control.
By opening an IMF loan and a central bank controlled by the NWO.
3/ Russia put in troops to secure Ukraine eg elf Defence Forces, by means of stealth in plain sight eg no Russian insignia on their uniforms but obviously Russian. Brilliant move as it let Russia take Ukraine and America and Nato could do nothing without proof the forces were Russian.
4/ Putin has kept the Majority of the forces used in Crimea on the Border of Ukraine and added to them slowly so as not to escalate to quickly. Until he can create either a false flag or stir up dissent among the Russians and Russian speakers by raising gas prices and making the Crimea look far better than Ukraine so as to stir resentment against the Ukraine Right party eg Nazis in power.
5/ Putin is a master of Chess and he is 100% thinking in advance, he will wait till the gas prices bite and in the mean time he will stir hatred against the current Ukraine leaders and other provinces in Ukraine. Once the rioting and violence begins, which it will he will go into the areas that he has destabilised and again will try to use the same process eg Self Defence Forces. Putin has no choice, the Bankers, globalists, America, Eu, and Nato eg the NWO are making their final push at a World Government but need Russia and China out of the picture. Putin knows this and he either puts up a defence now by securing his borders or the NWO will slowly but surely take every border country or province and block him in. Once Russia is blocked in the NWO will create unrest in Russia as they have been doing for years to try and collapse the Country from within. The only problem is Putin is wise to the game and is playing by his rules.
5/ This will eventually come to a point of no return and war will be the outcome. We are seeing the financial beginnings and the movement of military resources for a third world war. The NWO are only needing one thing and that is for Putin to shoot first. They need a bad guy to blame for a global financial collapse. But they need it to build up and look like they tried to avert a war so after all is said and done they can come out of it as the good guys. Public opinion is already against America and the Eu so they cannot go to war yet. We seen them bow to public opinion about syria and the end result was no WAR. If the general public get swayed to believe Russia is the bad guy then the NWO will use NATO and go to War with Russia. If Russia does not invade as the NWO want, then no doubt we will see some type of False Flag attack on a NATO member to kick it all off.
It is quite obvious the NWO want and need a large war. All the talk about Russian Troops buiding up on Ukraines borders is proof. If Russia wanted to invade they would have done it while Ukraine was weak just after the protests. Russia and Putin are not stupid they know exactly what is going on and will not give a reason for NATO to attack them. The only way the NWO get their war and a big bad Russian enemy is via the good ole tried asnd true FALSE FLAG. Enter the missing malaysian plane. Ukraine and the missing flight are connected. We will soon see how it all plays out, but it seems there is no escaping a Third World War. Russia will not back down, if they do its the end for them.
 Quoting: Shuracane


you just wrote what i couldn't be bothered to.

i agree in principal with that. it is so much more complex in my mind i cant be bothered writing about it.

the way i read is you see this continuing to escalate quite rapidly. this has not been my impression of how this plays out. of course we have seen quick escalation so far, but they are not gaining the support of the public. i dont believe ukraine happened the way they intended and that is why the media blackout, plane?. a continued escalation at the current pace may be the way to play. in that case, shit just got real.
Anonymous Coward
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04/06/2014 03:41 AM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
"Russia kills" - activists called for a boycott of Russian goods in the shopping center of Odessa. PHOTO

[link to censor.net.ua]
Anonymous Coward
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04/06/2014 03:54 AM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Gubarev said that in Donetsk in the homes of his companions began searches and detentions Today, 10:32

In Donetsk, the leaders of the self-proclaimed Governor Paul Gubarevu friendly organizations began searches and detentions, it said in a statement on the page Facebook Gubarev.

"Our friends tell us that in the homes of the leaders of the friendly organizations in Donetsk from the early morning detentions and searches! While no one is here to take away, but we will monitor the situation. For us, this is a clear signal that the junta is afraid of today's Kiev protest on Lenin square in 12:00, "the statement said.

[link to 112.ua]
DarkKnightNomeD
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United States
04/06/2014 03:59 AM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Taras Kuzio @TarasKuzio
After accusations of involvement in "anti-terrorist operation" FSB admit to having been in Kyiv in February. [link to www.pravda.com.ua] …
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5383047


EU was threatening sanctions long before Feb. 18. Even in December already. I was living in Kiev at the time, so I am quite aware of what was happening.

 Quoting: Sun_dancer


:isee:
 Quoting: pool


is that picture from an anime?
Anonymous Coward
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Greece
04/06/2014 04:40 AM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Ukraine foils coup attempt; 300 machine guns, antitank grenade launcher seized
[link to www.washingtontimes.com]


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