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UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387

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Sun_dancer

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04/05/2014 07:39 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
You deny reports without refuting them. Absence of evidence that you would accept is hardly good evidence of absence.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56469203

You're right, it is impossible to prove a negative. I cannot "prove" there are no Martians living in California, any more than I can prove that none of Germany, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Mexico has an arsenal of nuclear weapons. But this is not how things work in the world. If you accuse someone of something, you should provide evidence of it, or retract your accusation; but certainly you should not keep stirring the pot with accusations, particularly when it is leading to instability and hatred and increasing the risk of death and destruction.

I can also accuse you of having sex with children and burning cats alive - but if I have no proof, you would rightly call me a liar. To which I should respond, what - absence of proof is not proof of absence? Accusations demand proof, and as I noted above, if troops were really massed at the border, there would be proof, and lots of it.

These are straw man arguments. You can't just pick out the most extreme report from the most biased source to dismiss the whole subject. "Poised for invasion" is a phrase about intentions which we can agree that no one knows. Most of what you post is reasoned but this isn't.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56469203

Maybe you haven't been on this thread but we were getting multiple accusations of this "massing", "ready to invade in x hours", etc. a day, from NATO and US, from different media. For example (look for term "poised"):

[link to www.cnn.com]
[link to www.nytimes.com]
[link to www.debka.com]
[link to www.haaretz.com]

I just called b.s. on it, given there was no evidence and, if it were true, evidence would be readily available. Remember: it is an accusation of an ongoing event, not some historical event.

Last Edited by Sun_dancer on 04/05/2014 07:42 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Sorry to split my post into 3 - it kept getting rejected and I couldn't figure out which link was the problem ... [ EDIT - was rt DOT com links, the URL shortener having problems ... ]

The Russian statements have actually been very careful and qualified on this subject. If it were really a complete fabrication why wouldn't they say so?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56469203


OK, please explain to me the "careful wording" in the following statements which are consistent with the allegations of troops being massed, whether or not poised for invasion:

[link to russiatoday.com]
[link to www.straitstimes.com]
[link to russiatoday.com]
[link to www.theglobeandmail.com]
[link to russiatoday.com]

See also [link to www.nbcnews.com]

Last Edited by Sun_dancer on 04/05/2014 07:52 PM
Sun_dancer
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04/05/2014 07:49 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
page 2205 and still no invasion. damn
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8527960


you could say the western powers have subversively invaded the power structures within ukraine. their is your invasion.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36255184


hesright and they got their gold and whatever else they looted out of Officals homes, including docs
Anonymous Coward
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04/05/2014 07:51 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
You have the US govt mentality of "the more I say something the truer it becomes"
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 55875488

Good point - and actually it does work. It is the nature of human psychology. That's why I sometimes repeat myself and respond to the same claim multiple times.
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


Yup, but truth is...some like to blame Sun_Dancer being the shill when its so obvious who the real shills are...lol.

Sun_Dancer keep providing the common sense answers. You're well appreciated by the majority.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48304213


I second that. Plus people keep ignoring Sun Dancer has the Ukrainian friend.
Anonymous Coward
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04/05/2014 07:56 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
...

I submit it is not possible to hide moving 100,000 troops back and forth from the border in relatively densely populated Western Russia, because it would be exposed either by citizens, tourists, the countless Ukrainians who are living there and have cameras, the numerous overflights that have happened (and are indeed ongoing, with the cooperation of Russia), the several journalists from NBC, NY Times and elsewhere who have gone looking for these troops, or the countless satellites circling our planet with very sophisticated imaging (including thermal imaging) capabilities.

...
 Quoting: Sun_dancer

No one has said they are hiding.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56469203

[link to www.foxnews.com]
[link to online.wsj.com]

As to build-up:

[link to www.nytimes.com]
[link to news.yahoo.com]
[link to www.defenseone.com]
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


From the FOX link another source said they're "hiding"
Wall Street Journal reported late Friday that Russian troops are concealing

It's really funny how now words are being twisted. Also numerous twitters having been posted in here suggesting they're hiding in the forests (that was my favorite, hide 100,000 soldiers in a forest) and people arguing that sounds possible because why would they stand in plain sight.

Keep going Sun Dancer you're doing a great job at making sure the facts are being kept straight.

Nobody said they were hiding - s226 Nice try!
Anonymous Coward
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04/05/2014 08:09 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387




Keep going Sun Dancer you're doing a great job at making sure the facts are being kept straight.




hesright
Sun_dancer

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04/05/2014 08:14 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
...

I submit it is not possible to hide moving 100,000 troops back and forth from the border in relatively densely populated Western Russia, because it would be exposed either by citizens, tourists, the countless Ukrainians who are living there and have cameras, the numerous overflights that have happened (and are indeed ongoing, with the cooperation of Russia), the several journalists from NBC, NY Times and elsewhere who have gone looking for these troops, or the countless satellites circling our planet with very sophisticated imaging (including thermal imaging) capabilities.

...
 Quoting: Sun_dancer

No one has said they are hiding.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56469203

[link to www.foxnews.com]
[link to online.wsj.com]

...
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


From the FOX link another source said they're "hiding"
Wall Street Journal reported late Friday that Russian troops are concealing

...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56476482

And of course it was raised numerous times on this thread, here are two mentions:
Thread: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387 (Page 2041)
Thread: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387 (Page 2023)

There are also these posts about some of the other issues:
Thread: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387 (Page 2013)
Thread: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387 (Page 1865)

Plenty more if you want to take a trip down memory lane on this thread ....
Sun_dancer
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04/05/2014 08:29 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Sun dancer you sure pissed off some hotshots here. They hate cause you search for the EVIDENCE! Keep the good job!
Anonymous Coward
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04/05/2014 08:35 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
...

I submit it is not possible to hide moving 100,000 troops back and forth from the border in relatively densely populated Western Russia, because it would be exposed either by citizens, tourists, the countless Ukrainians who are living there and have cameras, the numerous overflights that have happened (and are indeed ongoing, with the cooperation of Russia), the several journalists from NBC, NY Times and elsewhere who have gone looking for these troops, or the countless satellites circling our planet with very sophisticated imaging (including thermal imaging) capabilities.

...
 Quoting: Sun_dancer

No one has said they are hiding.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56469203

[link to www.foxnews.com]
[link to online.wsj.com]

As to build-up:

[link to www.nytimes.com]
[link to news.yahoo.com]
[link to www.defenseone.com]
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


I agree that those stories document that there were claims of concealment. Of course, if it were feasible then it would be expected. Not sure the claim was that they were all hiding though.
Anonymous Coward
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04/05/2014 08:39 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
You deny reports without refuting them. Absence of evidence that you would accept is hardly good evidence of absence.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56469203

You're right, it is impossible to prove a negative. I cannot "prove" there are no Martians living in California, any more than I can prove that none of Germany, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Mexico has an arsenal of nuclear weapons. But this is not how things work in the world. If you accuse someone of something, you should provide evidence of it, or retract your accusation; but certainly you should not keep stirring the pot with accusations, particularly when it is leading to instability and hatred and increasing the risk of death and destruction.

I can also accuse you of having sex with children and burning cats alive - but if I have no proof, you would rightly call me a liar. To which I should respond, what - absence of proof is not proof of absence? Accusations demand proof, and as I noted above, if troops were really massed at the border, there would be proof, and lots of it.

These are straw man arguments. You can't just pick out the most extreme report from the most biased source to dismiss the whole subject. "Poised for invasion" is a phrase about intentions which we can agree that no one knows. Most of what you post is reasoned but this isn't.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56469203

Maybe you haven't been on this thread but we were getting multiple accusations of this "massing", "ready to invade in x hours", etc. a day, from NATO and US, from different media. For example (look for term "poised"):

[link to www.cnn.com]
[link to www.nytimes.com]
[link to www.debka.com]
[link to www.haaretz.com]

I just called b.s. on it, given there was no evidence and, if it were true, evidence would be readily available. Remember: it is an accusation of an ongoing event, not some historical event.
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


Of course the western press was full of implications as to Russia's intent. The issue is more about capabilities and response times and that part of the story remains in dispute.
Anonymous Coward
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04/05/2014 08:46 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Sorry to split my post into 3 - it kept getting rejected and I couldn't figure out which link was the problem ... [ EDIT - was rt DOT com links, the URL shortener having problems ... ]

The Russian statements have actually been very careful and qualified on this subject. If it were really a complete fabrication why wouldn't they say so?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56469203


OK, please explain to me the "careful wording" in the following statements which are consistent with the allegations of troops being massed, whether or not poised for invasion:

[link to russiatoday.com]
[link to www.straitstimes.com]
[link to russiatoday.com]
[link to www.theglobeandmail.com]
[link to russiatoday.com]

See also [link to www.nbcnews.com]
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


If you get away from the characterizations and headlines in those stories the actual statements are not so sweeping. I did see one off-the-record quote from someone who said it was all overblown but the specific statements I saw denied intent, said international norms were being satisfied, and claimed that inspectors had been allowed in and found nothing out of line. None of those are categorical with respect to the capabilities, numbers, and placement of troops and equipment. That is the key here. You seem to think that has been rendered ridiculous. I see the situation as far more ambiguous. It isn't because I trust western media or spokesmen either. It is simply inherent in the situation.
DawaSatso

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04/05/2014 09:06 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
This is eastern europe, where we bargain about eveyfuckingthing. Especially about NEW price. And you are not here but there, wherever the fuck that is, jerky. if you wanna buy shit from Russians at their price.,.go for it but don't imagine that everyone has to be you..hm..or do imagine it, what do I care.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56470551


Well then, just go with that. Buy your natural gas from the US. I am sure they can just fly that stuff over on the space shuttle. lol

I just don't care.
 Quoting: steelseries

I find it interesting that Russia and China have agreed more or less for gas sales but putting the infrastructure in place (pipelines) will take years, even though Russia already has pipelines leading up to its extraction points.

Yet some people think that USA can take shale gas (for which there are currently insufficient pipelines), transfer them to yet-not-existing liquefaction plants (which take very long to build, particularly if one complies with environmental regulations, including environmental impact studies), transfer that on yet-not-existing LNG carriers to Europe (of which quite many would be required, which would take quite some time to build, since current demand has ship-builders working at full capacity, so you would first need to construct new ship-building facilities), and then transfer all that to Europe.

And all of this massive investment would be lost, if the tensions die down.

whatever
 Quoting: Sun_dancer

Please read this Sun and comment on it. I'm really interested how you might see this. Also the term 'shale gas' are you talking about Canada's or about Nat Gas which is being pursued aggressively in the states.
[link to www.presstv.ir]
Anonymous Coward
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04/05/2014 09:27 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387

Please read this Sun and comment on it. I'm really interested how you might see this. Also the term 'shale gas' are you talking about Canada's or about Nat Gas which is being pursued aggressively in the states.
[link to www.presstv.ir]


[link to www.youtube.com]
Not the best source but great illustration starting at 1:12
Anonymous Coward
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
The newest Ukrainian tanks "Oplot" are ready for the battle.
They are one of the best modern tanks in the world.



[link to www.army-technology.com]

The Oplot-M main battle tank (MBT) is developed by Kharkiv Morozov Machine Building Design Bureau (KMDB) for the Ukrainian Armed Forces. The MBT can destroy ground-based and low-flying, low-speed aerial targets, while offering superior protection and high mobility for troops.
DawaSatso

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04/05/2014 09:34 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 55875488

Please read this Sun and comment on it. I'm really interested how you might see this. Also the term 'shale gas' are you talking about Canada's or about Nat Gas which is being pursued aggressively in the states.
[link to www.presstv.ir]


[link to www.youtube.com]
Not the best source but great illustration starting at 1:12


Good to hear it. Really is.
Newshunter

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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Strobe Talbott ‏@strobetalbott · 10h
Worrisome signals some key Euros are not just treating Crimea as fait accompli to be accepted but resigned to annexation of Transnistria.
Newshunter

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04/05/2014 09:38 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
@euromaidanpr: Just in: #Russia FM threatens #Latvia to "protect #Russian minorities" in the country
@thedailyfreedom | PR News
Newshunter

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04/05/2014 09:41 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
@michaeldweiss: Bad sign: Russian FM says Ukrainians are writing to Moscow asking for "protection". Agitprop that precedes invasion:
Anonymous Coward
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
The newest Ukrainian tanks "Oplot" are ready for the battle.
They are one of the best modern tanks in the world.



[link to www.army-technology.com]

The Oplot-M main battle tank (MBT) is developed by Kharkiv Morozov Machine Building Design Bureau (KMDB) for the Ukrainian Armed Forces. The MBT can destroy ground-based and low-flying, low-speed aerial targets, while offering superior protection and high mobility for troops.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56479015


youd like that wouldnt you?
Sun_dancer

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04/05/2014 10:04 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
...

Maybe you haven't been on this thread but we were getting multiple accusations of this "massing", "ready to invade in x hours", etc. a day, from NATO and US, from different media. For example (look for term "poised"):

[link to www.cnn.com]
[link to www.nytimes.com]
[link to www.debka.com]
[link to www.haaretz.com]

I just called b.s. on it, given there was no evidence and, if it were true, evidence would be readily available. Remember: it is an accusation of an ongoing event, not some historical event.
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


Of course the western press was full of implications as to Russia's intent. The issue is more about capabilities and response times and that part of the story remains in dispute.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56469203

Really what this is about from my perspective is agitating people, being provocative, increasing tension. I think whoever is behind the propaganda - whoever is telling the proven sycophant Rasmussen to make these statements - is trying to incite hatred and confrontation. The question for me is, why? Well, we may find out the way they end up channeling the hatred they are creating. Or they may decide, they have made their point and call off the dogs.

Why do I think it is purely aggravating? Because everyone knows Russia can invade Ukraine. They in no way have to be poised on the border - everyone knows they can be, whether it takes 1 day or 3 days or 5 days. In any case nobody can or will do anything about it - if they were, they would have done something long ago.

So this is just games. And the fact that the troops really aren't there, that is the key to my opinion that what is happening is a planned, scientific program of radicalization of particularly Ukrainians but also of Europeans and Americans against Russia.

Whoever is making these policy decisions, I am completely against them. I want to live in a world of peace and understanding. I don't want to live in a world where some small cabal centered around Washington, D.C. and Brussels can radicalize the world and start conflicts at their whim, just because they decide to spout lies to manipulate the masses.

[ EDIT: Add to this that I think in general the agenda of this cabal - call them TPTB or whatever - is not my agenda, at all. And in particular, I wish very very very much that Ukraine does not descend into civil war - but that is where I think this cabal is pushing them. ]

Last Edited by Sun_dancer on 04/05/2014 10:07 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
I think Sun is biased like hell, but he keeps the thread alive. 5a
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04/05/2014 10:16 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
I think Sun is biased like hell, but he keeps the thread alive. 5a
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33376107


yeah he/she is like the only one posting. they should just rename it the vladimir appreciation page. All sundancer, all the time.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
...

Maybe you haven't been on this thread but we were getting multiple accusations of this "massing", "ready to invade in x hours", etc. a day, from NATO and US, from different media. For example (look for term "poised"):

[link to www.cnn.com]
[link to www.nytimes.com]
[link to www.debka.com]
[link to www.haaretz.com]

I just called b.s. on it, given there was no evidence and, if it were true, evidence would be readily available. Remember: it is an accusation of an ongoing event, not some historical event.
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


Of course the western press was full of implications as to Russia's intent. The issue is more about capabilities and response times and that part of the story remains in dispute.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56469203

Really what this is about from my perspective is agitating people, being provocative, increasing tension. I think whoever is behind the propaganda - whoever is telling the proven sycophant Rasmussen to make these statements - is trying to incite hatred and confrontation. The question for me is, why? Well, we may find out the way they end up channeling the hatred they are creating. Or they may decide, they have made their point and call off the dogs.

Why do I think it is purely aggravating? Because everyone knows Russia can invade Ukraine. They in no way have to be poised on the border - everyone knows they can be, whether it takes 1 day or 3 days or 5 days. In any case nobody can or will do anything about it - if they were, they would have done something long ago.

So this is just games. And the fact that the troops really aren't there, that is the key to my opinion that what is happening is a planned, scientific program of radicalization of particularly Ukrainians but also of Europeans and Americans against Russia.

Whoever is making these policy decisions, I am completely against them. I want to live in a world of peace and understanding. I don't want to live in a world where some small cabal centered around Washington, D.C. and Brussels can radicalize the world and start conflicts at their whim, just because they decide to spout lies to manipulate the masses.

[ EDIT: Add to this that I think in general the agenda of this cabal - call them TPTB or whatever - is not my agenda, at all. And in particular, I wish very very very much that Ukraine does not descend into civil war - but that is where I think this cabal is pushing them. ]
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


People have experienced too much in recent years to quickly fold to blanket media propaganda. This is being proved often lately, for instance with Syria, just last year. The bourgeoisie is moving very fast, possibly too fast to drag the public with it.
Anonymous Coward
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04/05/2014 10:18 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
...


Of course the western press was full of implications as to Russia's intent. The issue is more about capabilities and response times and that part of the story remains in dispute.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56469203

Really what this is about from my perspective is agitating people, being provocative, increasing tension. I think whoever is behind the propaganda - whoever is telling the proven sycophant Rasmussen to make these statements - is trying to incite hatred and confrontation. The question for me is, why? Well, we may find out the way they end up channeling the hatred they are creating. Or they may decide, they have made their point and call off the dogs.

Why do I think it is purely aggravating? Because everyone knows Russia can invade Ukraine. They in no way have to be poised on the border - everyone knows they can be, whether it takes 1 day or 3 days or 5 days. In any case nobody can or will do anything about it - if they were, they would have done something long ago.

So this is just games. And the fact that the troops really aren't there, that is the key to my opinion that what is happening is a planned, scientific program of radicalization of particularly Ukrainians but also of Europeans and Americans against Russia.

Whoever is making these policy decisions, I am completely against them. I want to live in a world of peace and understanding. I don't want to live in a world where some small cabal centered around Washington, D.C. and Brussels can radicalize the world and start conflicts at their whim, just because they decide to spout lies to manipulate the masses.
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


I am so fucking tired of seeing your name every time I look at this page.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56478196


So stop looking at this page? Evidently your parents were fucking FAILS at life and couldnt raise a handle bar...
 Quoting: RedEyeJedi


As if your opinion meant anything to me. Now go back to sniffing sundancer's crack.
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
just repost the same manipulative videos with incorrect descriptions no less.
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


They are not maniplative videos. In fact they are part of the very extensive evidence that has been collected.

The fact is that they plainly show the Berkut firing at the protestors over an extended period of time that morning, and you dont like that fact, being a Russian shill whose job it is to support your allies(the Berkut).

Each time you talk shit with your Russian shill lies, Im going to repost the videos, so have it your way...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5383047


ever heard of rubber bullets? ever heard of common sense? ever heard that killing of protesters fuels the cause of the protesters and they gain more support...certainly berkut wouldn't gain anything from shooting don't you think? no? ah sorry I don't speak sheep sheep
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 55874494


Somebody gained Crimea..for now. And lot of Berkut dudes bolted there. I am sure it's just a coincidence and that's why I am coincidence theorist.
Anonymous Coward
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04/05/2014 10:23 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
...

Really what this is about from my perspective is agitating people, being provocative, increasing tension. I think whoever is behind the propaganda - whoever is telling the proven sycophant Rasmussen to make these statements - is trying to incite hatred and confrontation. The question for me is, why? Well, we may find out the way they end up channeling the hatred they are creating. Or they may decide, they have made their point and call off the dogs.

Why do I think it is purely aggravating? Because everyone knows Russia can invade Ukraine. They in no way have to be poised on the border - everyone knows they can be, whether it takes 1 day or 3 days or 5 days. In any case nobody can or will do anything about it - if they were, they would have done something long ago.

So this is just games. And the fact that the troops really aren't there, that is the key to my opinion that what is happening is a planned, scientific program of radicalization of particularly Ukrainians but also of Europeans and Americans against Russia.

Whoever is making these policy decisions, I am completely against them. I want to live in a world of peace and understanding. I don't want to live in a world where some small cabal centered around Washington, D.C. and Brussels can radicalize the world and start conflicts at their whim, just because they decide to spout lies to manipulate the masses.
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


I am so fucking tired of seeing your name every time I look at this page.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56478196


So stop looking at this page? Evidently your parents were fucking FAILS at life and couldnt raise a handle bar...
 Quoting: RedEyeJedi


As if your opinion meant anything to me. Now go back to sniffing sundancer's crack.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56478196


lmao kissup dasbier
Anonymous Coward
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04/05/2014 10:28 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
...

Maybe you haven't been on this thread but we were getting multiple accusations of this "massing", "ready to invade in x hours", etc. a day, from NATO and US, from different media. For example (look for term "poised"):

[link to www.cnn.com]
[link to www.nytimes.com]
[link to www.debka.com]
[link to www.haaretz.com]

I just called b.s. on it, given there was no evidence and, if it were true, evidence would be readily available. Remember: it is an accusation of an ongoing event, not some historical event.
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


Of course the western press was full of implications as to Russia's intent. The issue is more about capabilities and response times and that part of the story remains in dispute.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56469203

Really what this is about from my perspective is agitating people, being provocative, increasing tension. I think whoever is behind the propaganda - whoever is telling the proven sycophant Rasmussen to make these statements - is trying to incite hatred and confrontation. The question for me is, why? Well, we may find out the way they end up channeling the hatred they are creating. Or they may decide, they have made their point and call off the dogs.

Why do I think it is purely aggravating? Because everyone knows Russia can invade Ukraine. They in no way have to be poised on the border - everyone knows they can be, whether it takes 1 day or 3 days or 5 days. In any case nobody can or will do anything about it - if they were, they would have done something long ago.

So this is just games. And the fact that the troops really aren't there, that is the key to my opinion that what is happening is a planned, scientific program of radicalization of particularly Ukrainians but also of Europeans and Americans against Russia.

Whoever is making these policy decisions, I am completely against them. I want to live in a world of peace and understanding. I don't want to live in a world where some small cabal centered around Washington, D.C. and Brussels can radicalize the world and start conflicts at their whim, just because they decide to spout lies to manipulate the masses.

[ EDIT: Add to this that I think in general the agenda of this cabal - call them TPTB or whatever - is not my agenda, at all. And in particular, I wish very very very much that Ukraine does not descend into civil war - but that is where I think this cabal is pushing them. ]
 Quoting: Sun_dancer


I don't disagree that the subject has become a focal point for inflammatory propaganda. Last week essentially proved that the west has no real interest in a diplomatic solution. That was my take on all of the prattling about Russian troops.

On the other hand if I really thought that Russia was anywhere near the standing start posture that prevailed when this whole Maidan coup exploded I would lose a lot of respect for Putin and the Russian leadership generally. That would mean that when operations in the Ukraine mainland began they would be noticed by NATO from the beginning stages with an excessive lead time and little doubt about Russian intentions once things started moving into place.

That is no way to play the game. It makes no sense in such a tense situation not to position troops, material and special forces to react quickly to all contingencies. It is the west that is judgemental about this, not me. They are making a big deal out of it to avoid meaningful diplomacy. My guess is that there has to be some element of truth underlying the propaganda because Russia would be foolish if there weren't. It is that simple. There is no need to be defensive about it because it is a side issue.

If military action is to be avoided a realistic diplomatic solution has to emerge. Right now it seems that the west would prefer that Putin decide that he has no choice. That will enable them to move on to the next stage of their plans.
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04/05/2014 10:29 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
15:51 05.04.2014 Interfax-Ukraine
SBU exposes armed group plotting armed seizure of power in Luhansk region



Ukraine's Security Service (SBU) has detained in Luhansk region an armed sabotage group of 15 people who planned an armed seizure of power in the region.

As the results of a large-scale special operation, the SBU detained 15 active members of a sabotage ring, seized 300 machineguns, one anti-tank grenade launcher, five pistols, Molotov cocktails and a large amount of smooth-bore guns and cold steel weapons.

[link to en.interfax.com.ua]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56397876


Today, Svoboda holds a larger chunk of its nation's ministries (nearly a quarter, including the prized defense portfolio) than any other far-right party on the continent. Ukraine's deputy prime minister represents Svoboda (the smaller, even more extreme "Right Sector" coalition fills the deputy National Security Council chair), as does the prosecutor general and the deputy chair of parliament -- where the party is the fourth-largest. And Svoboda's fresh faces are scarcely different from the old: one of its freshmen members of parliament is the founder of the "Joseph Goebbels Political Research Centre" and has hailed the Holocaust as a "bright period" in human history.


Anybody expect this inquiry to be objective???

Yeah, Putin is new Hitler, right!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56460049


Hitler was socialist. Putin is more on the left than Svodoba/Right Sector. You had too much Antifascist NOB "education" in your youth and now everything is upside down in your little "antiNazi" head.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16259808


Not more than those near Kumrovec!
Upside down or not, wait for the new austerity measures to pay the Ukrainian bankruptcy!
Nice work, Pavelicu!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56460049


Pavelic? Wasn't that a guy that stood up for his right? We had austerity since 1914. But at least now there is coffee, cooking oil and detergent in the shops.
Anonymous Coward
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04/05/2014 10:36 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387
Sun dancer you sure pissed off some hotshots here. They hate cause you search for the EVIDENCE! Keep the good job!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56477132


You are hot shot too, don't practice false modesty...and explain to guys here how NATO located Serbian Army during bombing of Serbia over Kosovo. I think NATO detected 1 or was it 2 real tanks and few fake planes? And Russians are more stupid than Serbs, they wouldn't be able to conceal shit, eh?
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04/05/2014 10:41 PM
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Re: UKRAINE/RUSSIA NEWS: Russian military drills begin near Ukraine day after militants announce 100k strong mobalisation!!!p.7387





GLP