If the dead go to heaven or hell, who is God going to resurrect?

You've got it right. The tradition that has been passed down through men that people go directly to a place called heaven or hell upon death is a false and pagan concept. The scriptures say in many places that the dead know nothing, feel nothing, and have no consciousness. That's why it's called sleep many times. That's why we're forbidden to summon spirits...because the only spirits there are to summon are non-humon (demonic).

The fact is, everyone is resurrected at the same time. Believers are resurrected before the 2nd Coming of Christ. And unbelievers are resurrected after the 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom to be judged together (Great White Throne Judgement).

The King James Bible says:


King James Bible
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Rev 20:14

It is interesting that people will say bad people go to hell to be tortured forever alive. But the Bible says that hell(hades in other translations) is going to be destroyed and will give up its dead.

So no one goes to a fiery place forever. And the people in this so called fiery place are *dead*. Not alive. They are in hades/hell/sheol which is the common grave of mankind waiting for a resurrection.

So this pagan hell belief falls flat on its face right in the book of Revelation.

People are sleeping/dead like Lazarus was until they are resurrected by Jesus Christ. Not tortured forever. A loving God would never do such a thing.

Good stuff. There is also the belief that the Second Death is the "death" of Sin and anything related to it. Read the verse again and see if you can see what I mean:
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Rev 20:14
The Second Death is the destruction of death and hell (sheol/grave).

My personal belief is the Second Death is the "burning up" of the chaff inside the person. It's interesting because God is very often compared to a Refining Fire and Launderer's Soap.

But either way, whether he annihilate his unbelieving creation, or purify them in the Lake, it is infinitely better than the traditional notion of an Egyptian/Grecian eternal hell.

That's right!!!! When Yahushua raised Lazarus he didn't pray to the father to send Lazarus' spirit down so he could ressurect him. That would be 2 ressurections then, there's only one. That is from the Messiah the first and the last.

The scripture you quoted is the White Throne Judgement that takes place at the end of the 1000 yr. millenial kingdom. The children/saints of God have already been resurrected to eternal life at the beginning of the 1000 yr. kingdom. When one dies they "sleep" as the Bible states awaiting one of several resurrections.

Too bad Common Sense won't be resurrected. I sure do miss good ol' Common Sense.

Yeah!
I was just reading about Lazarus last night.

Yahshua said, "Lazarus, Come forth.

Yahshua called him by name for a reason. :)

Yup. Lazarus was dead or sleeping like Jesus said. He was not in heaven and he was not in some burning pagan hell. Just dead until he was resurrected.

Also to point out, Lazarus was not reincarnated. Some people believe when we die we become someone else or something else. Lazarus proves this wrong as well. He came back as himself. All the dead will do this when Jesus resurrects them. They are sleeping in death now but one day they won't be. Families and friends will be reunited. Now that is a happy and comforting thought. No one needs be lost to death.

The scripture you quoted is the White Throne Judgement that takes place at the end of the 1000 yr. millenial kingdom. The children/saints of God have already been resurrected to eternal life at the beginning of the 1000 yr. kingdom. When one dies they "sleep" as the Bible states awaiting one of several resurrections.
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Right, actually the first resurrection, meaning the heavenly class, occurred in 1914 with Jesus heavenly enthronement
If the second resurrection, meaning the rest of the dead on earth isn't until the thousand years are ended who are these people?.
" Now as soon as the thousand years have been ended, Satan will be let loose out of his prison, 8 and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they advanced over the breadth of the earth and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city. But fire came down out of heaven and devoured them. 10 And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulphur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet [already were]; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.' Rv20:7

I can attempt to tell you but may do so in failure.

What you call heaven and hell do not exist in the biblical way you percieve them to.

A soul as you desribe is the quantic attachment of energized information to an equally energized form, such as a human brain.

It is possible for multiple if not hundreds of millions of sole souls to escape their chamber and exist as an energized clump of information that persists in a quantum dimension.

This is what you call a "soul."

Ah, you lost me with the JW theology. 1914? Really? I'll be on my way.

No there has only been 1 resurrection so far and the Bible states that it is Jesus Himself, "the firstfruit of many brothers and sisters." The next (1st resurrection) will be in the not too distant future for the elect and chosen saints of God. This will happen at His (Jesus) coming so 1914 is definitely not what scripture says. The Bible also shows there will be a 1000 yr Kingdom of God on this earth.

Sometimes I wonder if our message of peace was a mistake. The religions and differences of this species makes it difficult to speak to their commons. I am unable to grab their attention even by giving them truth. Our desire to awaken them is misguided by their own mistrust. We must find a new way to commune with them or abandon communication.

You are correct Lazarus was resurrected back to physical life (not eternal) as were all those in the village when Christ was crucified. Only Christ Himself was resurrected to immortality, new body and is seated at the right hand of God the Father.

It sounds like you have much of their same beliefs. Not many people realize this about the dead.

There has been more than 1 resurrection.

Matthew 27 : 52 - 53

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many

The widows son in 1st Kings 17 was also resurrected.



Also, the 1000 year reign is in Heaven. Not earth.

The earth will be empty except for the devil and the fallen angels.

Every single human will be dead.

That is why the devil is described as "bound" for 1000 years.

He is incapable of tempting, deceiving or pretty much anything but sit and think about his coming destruction.

I've read about the JW belief and I am far from it. Everything I believe I've gotten from studying the original translations of scripture. I deny any church doctrine or any books besides the Bible. Just because I believe the dead are dead does not make me part of the JW church.

The people of this wod and thread are having a debate on religion. They may not even consider this response. Chances are they wont. Thus will not be read by any human. There is no sign that an religious debate among an primitive people will have any success.

Nobody has gone to heaven except Christ the first fruits after death."Corinthians chapter 15" confirms this . There is a lot more confirmation of this in the book of Rev chapter 11 there you will see the two witnesses of God going up to heaven to be the first fruits in heaven after Christ unto God."First fruits means the first"

When we die our spirits go to a place called SHEOL WHERE THERE IS PARADISE AND ALSO PLACE OF TORMENT awaiting the coming of Christ when the dead in Christ will rise first and changed in the twinkling of an eye..THESE MEN AND WOMEN WILL FORM GOD'S government and have responsibilities in paradise here on earth ....

HERE IS WHAT JESUS SAID

When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

Here we see the kingdom of heaven is in the earth as the earth has been cleansed and the people purged. This is confirmed also in the book of Isaiah chapter 66 All peoples in that coming time are in the government of God in the earth..My friends do not be decieved ,paradise on earth is our destiny with the exception of the patriarchs who will be in the heavenlies whom at some point will be amongst us. Rev chapter 21 & 22 the tewnty four elders


The wicked dead will remain in torment until after the 1000 year reign to be finally judged.
This is a whole new topic which I will elaborate on in another thread

Last Edited by Neim-Ya'shar on 04/04/2014 05:51 PM

They are about the only denomination who understand the dead are dead. So when people start talking like that it sounds like a JW. Anyway, keep up the good work and keep reading/studying your bible.

The resurrection is for the soul to rejoin the body, and everyone gets resurrected. The righteous first and the wicked second.

absolutely wrong and unscriptural

Last Edited by Neim-Ya'shar on 04/04/2014 05:35 PM

You should have read and absorbed my whole post. I said there were several resurrections back to PHYSICAL life (Lazarus, the people in the village as Christ was crucified). These are NOT resurrections to eternal life, they are yet future.

We know that Neim.

The descendants of the angels automatically resurrect from the dead anyways. The wicked descendants of the angels who transgressed the Creator's laws have been sentenced to roam the earth in hunger and thirst until their trial comes to pass. Cain received the same sentence and he too was a descendant of a fallen angel. They are called demons.It's in the scriptures.

Adam's righteous descendants are promised a resurrection when the time arrives. The JW self-appointed leaders never talk about the two seeds in the scriptures: the descendants of the angels vs the descendants of Adam.
Genesis 3:15

They were summoned on the earth as restless hungry spirits for Gods purpose.

These are the same spirits who recognized chrsit during his ministry

It is scriptural. 1000 year reign on earth is nonsense.

2000 years ago the Jews that failed to study their Bibles in the same way the pastors of today.

Back then the Jews preached that when Messiah came He would end Roman rule and there would be peace on earth. Today, the preachers all over the world are preaching the exact same lie.

They are preaching when Jesus comes this time He will put an end to all the corrupted governments and set up His kingdom on earth for 1000 years of peace.

Those of us that study prophecy know there is no such doctrine in the Bible. Yet they still preach this exact same like the Pharisees preached long ago.

Why? Satan knew back then it would help keep the masses blind to the arrival of Messiah and in so doing making the majority unready for His arrival. Satan knows the exact same lie will work today because it worked so well back then.