Sandy Hook: How did road blockage affect emergency response? | |
Stickywicket User ID: 18768705 Canada 05/28/2014 08:27 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | 9:59; Gregory Beck @dchidirty 14 Dec; @ljanyNT @CTPSscann two ambulances two medics staging sandy hook fd; Retweeted by Libor Jany Quoting: Anonymous Coward 57763319 That's A2 and A3, though, not the regional ambulances. What we're looking for is any additional ambulances present between 9:49 a.m. (when A2 and A3 arrived at FD) and 10:35 a.m. (when regional ambulances arrived). There seem to be two unfortunate windows: road clear but ambulances absent, followed by ambulances present but road blocked. The question is whether there was any point between 9:49 and 10:35 when ambulances were present, and the road clear. And then a third reason will have to be found as to why those rigs didn't enter the scene; however, it doesn't seem as if there were really any ambulances present when the road was clear, with the exception of the very earliest, A2 and A3, which were both gone by 10:08 (probably really gone earlier than that--they were at Danbury by 10:23 a.m.). I wish I knew what time that picture was taken that showed an ambulance ON Dickinson driving towards the school. I know Hicks was taking pictures around 10 am. If that was one of Hicks' pics, then it seems that that ambulance is there awful early, doesn't it? Do you mean this one? [link to www.insanemedia.net] I wish we knew more information on this picture. Was it one of the ones that Shannon Hicks supposedly took? And if it was, what time did she supposedly hand off her "photo duties" to John Voket so she do her "firefighter duties"? Remember that Hicks took the iconic pictures at around 10 am. Could she really have been still snapping pictures as late as 10:30? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 57687550 United States 05/28/2014 08:51 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Scenario: Reunification is chaotic; you don't know who's still in the school, you don't know if they're injured, and you can't get to them anyway. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4282111 We know from the emergency services audio from that day that Newtown EMS was trying to get a quad to the scene to "use for transport." They planned to "double up on the back." Who were they planning to transport? They don't seem to have been able to get the quad through, as, in their words, "the road's blocked too much." Why are they planning to use a quadrunner to transport injured patients? Why wouldn't they send in an ambulance, which provides much better security for all personnel concerned than an open-air quadrunner? If they're sending a quad to the scene, why aren't they sending an ambulance to the scene? Seems to me one clear answer is road blockage. We also know that the CSP was trying to get its own vehicles moved, vehicles which in their words which were blocking emergency access to the building. The issues of road blockage, missing children, and chaotic reunification at Sandy Hook are being cited nationwide: ---- We are reminded that the reunification area should be located as far away from the school as possible. At Sandy Hook, the school’s reunification area was two blocks from the school, which caused incredible vehicle congestion. [link to web3.esd112.org] ---- And: ---- ...[R]eunification was delayed as parents were desperate to reach their children, but couldn’t do so because of blocked access, confusion and a lack of awareness of processes to follow. [link to media.epactnetwork.com (secure)] ---- It's not clear what Trump is referring to here when he says parents interfered with the law enforcement response: ---- Additionally, schools now have predesignated parent-student "reunification centers" to prevent parents from showing up at the scene and interfering with law enforcement, as was the case in Sandy Hook, Trump said. [link to www.cnn.com] ---- How quickly did the road(s) become blocked/congested, which roads were affected, and how did it influence emergency response? It was a false flag hoax. Don't spend your time trying to evaluate response issue and the like, meaningless minutia at this point in time. Spend your time educating yourself on how we can take back our country. Start by watching the following video and then pass it on: |
swansong User ID: 58529305 Canada 05/28/2014 11:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | 9:59; Gregory Beck @dchidirty 14 Dec; @ljanyNT @CTPSscann two ambulances two medics staging sandy hook fd; Retweeted by Libor Jany Quoting: Anonymous Coward 57763319 That's A2 and A3, though, not the regional ambulances. What we're looking for is any additional ambulances present between 9:49 a.m. (when A2 and A3 arrived at FD) and 10:35 a.m. (when regional ambulances arrived). There seem to be two unfortunate windows: road clear but ambulances absent, followed by ambulances present but road blocked. The question is whether there was any point between 9:49 and 10:35 when ambulances were present, and the road clear. And then a third reason will have to be found as to why those rigs didn't enter the scene; however, it doesn't seem as if there were really any ambulances present when the road was clear, with the exception of the very earliest, A2 and A3, which were both gone by 10:08 (probably really gone earlier than that--they were at Danbury by 10:23 a.m.). I wish I knew what time that picture was taken that showed an ambulance ON Dickinson driving towards the school. I know Hicks was taking pictures around 10 am. If that was one of Hicks' pics, then it seems that that ambulance is there awful early, doesn't it? Do you mean this one? [link to www.insanemedia.net] I wish we knew more information on this picture. Was it one of the ones that Shannon Hicks supposedly took? And if it was, what time did she supposedly hand off her "photo duties" to John Voket so she do her "firefighter duties"? Remember that Hicks took the iconic pictures at around 10 am. Could she really have been still snapping pictures as late as 10:30? That is a Shannon Hicks pic, yes. The other questions are good ones. I am not remembering her being specific re: what time she handed things off to Voket...but she took her conga line pic at 9:59...snapped some more pics and then turned into a fire fighter. Seeing as that pic is looking back up towards the fire house it might be reasonable to assume that it was taken as she was heading up there for the handoff. I ran a copy through fotoforensics and it came up with a weird time...like 6pm... [link to fotoforensics.com] If you could find the original it might have more accurate metadata. A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value - Issac Asimov |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 58596718 United States 05/29/2014 12:03 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I take swans point of view...not only why would the parents lay down but like I have said many times you still could never bottle up the emotion of knowing what happened. No way. Quoting: Dudeashaneo 25382451 I am really thinking they do not like the medical response to be discussed because it brings in to many negligence opportunities that would really provide for the authorities being forced to provide answers. I totally agree that this is a possibility. That's one of the reasons I push in this angle. It works regardless of whether it was real, or faked--reason being, it (road blockage) wasn't supposed to happen either way. Or if it was supposed to happen, it wasn't supposed to be noticed. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 58596718 United States 05/29/2014 12:09 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | 9:59; Gregory Beck @dchidirty 14 Dec; @ljanyNT @CTPSscann two ambulances two medics staging sandy hook fd; Retweeted by Libor Jany Quoting: Anonymous Coward 57763319 That's A2 and A3, though, not the regional ambulances. What we're looking for is any additional ambulances present between 9:49 a.m. (when A2 and A3 arrived at FD) and 10:35 a.m. (when regional ambulances arrived). There seem to be two unfortunate windows: road clear but ambulances absent, followed by ambulances present but road blocked. The question is whether there was any point between 9:49 and 10:35 when ambulances were present, and the road clear. And then a third reason will have to be found as to why those rigs didn't enter the scene; however, it doesn't seem as if there were really any ambulances present when the road was clear, with the exception of the very earliest, A2 and A3, which were both gone by 10:08 (probably really gone earlier than that--they were at Danbury by 10:23 a.m.). I wish I knew what time that picture was taken that showed an ambulance ON Dickinson driving towards the school. I know Hicks was taking pictures around 10 am. If that was one of Hicks' pics, then it seems that that ambulance is there awful early, doesn't it? Do you mean this one? [link to www.insanemedia.net] I wish we knew more information on this picture. Was it one of the ones that Shannon Hicks supposedly took? And if it was, what time did she supposedly hand off her "photo duties" to John Voket so she do her "firefighter duties"? Remember that Hicks took the iconic pictures at around 10 am. Could she really have been still snapping pictures as late as 10:30? Acc to Fox, this photo was provided by the Bee - I think it's got to be from the same series: [link to a57.foxnews.com] But Shannon put on her togs, then changed right back out of them and resumed Bee work, as far as I recall. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 58596718 United States 05/29/2014 12:13 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Scenario: Reunification is chaotic; you don't know who's still in the school, you don't know if they're injured, and you can't get to them anyway. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4282111 We know from the emergency services audio from that day that Newtown EMS was trying to get a quad to the scene to "use for transport." They planned to "double up on the back." Who were they planning to transport? They don't seem to have been able to get the quad through, as, in their words, "the road's blocked too much." Why are they planning to use a quadrunner to transport injured patients? Why wouldn't they send in an ambulance, which provides much better security for all personnel concerned than an open-air quadrunner? If they're sending a quad to the scene, why aren't they sending an ambulance to the scene? Seems to me one clear answer is road blockage. We also know that the CSP was trying to get its own vehicles moved, vehicles which in their words which were blocking emergency access to the building. The issues of road blockage, missing children, and chaotic reunification at Sandy Hook are being cited nationwide: ---- We are reminded that the reunification area should be located as far away from the school as possible. At Sandy Hook, the school’s reunification area was two blocks from the school, which caused incredible vehicle congestion. [link to web3.esd112.org] ---- And: ---- ...[R]eunification was delayed as parents were desperate to reach their children, but couldn’t do so because of blocked access, confusion and a lack of awareness of processes to follow. [link to media.epactnetwork.com (secure)] ---- It's not clear what Trump is referring to here when he says parents interfered with the law enforcement response: ---- Additionally, schools now have predesignated parent-student "reunification centers" to prevent parents from showing up at the scene and interfering with law enforcement, as was the case in Sandy Hook, Trump said. [link to www.cnn.com] ---- How quickly did the road(s) become blocked/congested, which roads were affected, and how did it influence emergency response? It was a false flag hoax. Don't spend your time trying to evaluate response issue and the like, meaningless minutia at this point in time. Spend your time educating yourself on how we can take back our country. Start by watching the following video and then pass it on: Can't take back the country by simply saying, "You're lying" and then reaching for a 60 mil or whatever. I don't think we're at the point of armed uprising yet. So, taking back the country means doing slow, tedious work exposing the lie. It doesn't happen by simply saying, "I think there's a lie." It happens by actually exposing the lie in excruciating detail. The good news it that once one brick in the wall of lies comes out, the rest usually start coming out more easily. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 58596718 United States 05/29/2014 12:15 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Stickywicket I wish I knew what time that picture was taken that showed an ambulance ON Dickinson driving towards the school. I know Hicks was taking pictures around 10 am. If that was one of Hicks' pics, then it seems that that ambulance is there awful early, doesn't it? Do you mean this one? [link to www.insanemedia.net] I wish we knew more information on this picture. Was it one of the ones that Shannon Hicks supposedly took? And if it was, what time did she supposedly hand off her "photo duties" to John Voket so she do her "firefighter duties"? Remember that Hicks took the iconic pictures at around 10 am. Could she really have been still snapping pictures as late as 10:30? Acc to Fox, this photo was provided by the Bee - I think it's got to be from the same series: [link to a57.foxnews.com] But Shannon put on her togs, then changed right back out of them and resumed Bee work, as far as I recall. The two in front (girl w/dark hair and partner) are very likely to be the same two in an ambulance later on Yogananda. So, we can find out who responded to Yogananda, (Oxford, Redding, Southbury, whoever) and then see what time that rig was at SH. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 25888555 United States 05/29/2014 12:15 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Road blockage is an easy target. Lets call it for what is really galling about this.. the absolute pathetic medical response. There is just no excuse and "road blockage" cannot be seriously considered in place of utter irresponsible handeling of medical services for any and all people at that school. Can I be more clear? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 58596718 United States 05/29/2014 12:31 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Road blockage is an easy target. Lets call it for what is really galling about this.. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25888555 the absolute pathetic medical response. There is just no excuse and "road blockage" cannot be seriously considered in place of utter irresponsible handeling of medical services for any and all people at that school. Can I be more clear? It's definitely not being considered in place of other inadequacies; rather, in addition to. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 58596718 United States 05/29/2014 12:31 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 58596718 United States 05/29/2014 12:33 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 58596718 United States 05/29/2014 12:34 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Road blockage is an easy target. Lets call it for what is really galling about this.. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25888555 the absolute pathetic medical response. There is just no excuse and "road blockage" cannot be seriously considered in place of utter irresponsible handeling of medical services for any and all people at that school. Can I be more clear? How can you handle medical services for people at a scene you can't even reach? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 58596718 United States 05/29/2014 12:40 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 58596718 United States 05/29/2014 12:56 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 58596718 United States 05/29/2014 12:58 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 58596718 United States 05/29/2014 01:03 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Here's (I believe) that same couple, and there's another of them on Yogananda, I think. [link to www.countytimes.com] |
Stickywicket User ID: 18768705 Canada 05/29/2014 01:12 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I think that's quite clearly a Danbury ambulance stuck on Dickenson. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 58596718 The shillery is trying to claim Southbury, but that rig doesn't match. Hmmm...maybe that picture has to be later than 10:30. We see all the rigs and firetruck at the firehouse. No evacuating kids in sight. |
swansong User ID: 58529305 Canada 05/29/2014 02:16 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 32639296 United States 05/29/2014 11:23 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 32639296 United States 05/29/2014 11:37 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Err..the Audi. Freudian slip :) Highly encourage everyone to watch the Sandy Hook Advisory Commission mtg from Feb 28 of this year: [link to www.governor.ct.gov] The nervousness of some speakers is palpable. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 32639296 United States 05/29/2014 11:39 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Officials are also, obviously, dancing closer and closer to a full on "The road was blocked" statement. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 32639296 United States 05/29/2014 11:45 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Notably absent (unless I've missed something) is any rep from the CT State Police in this conversation. How can you have a SHAC meeting, for five hours, discussing the incredible problems in establishing unified command for a multi-agency response, and not have present the single agency that swooped in, blocked the roads, and declared it was in charge? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 32639296 United States 05/29/2014 11:47 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Again, I don't mean that the CSP guys responding to 12/14 are bad. I mean that it's incredibly bad that no one is acknowledging what happened nor working to address it. Beyond that, it is despicable that one lawyer, or his office, working for the state of Connecticut, being paid BY the people of Connecticut, is working subersively behind the scenes to spread disinformation regarding the emergency response. THAT is a crime--I don't care what our resident law office secretary says. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 32639296 United States 05/29/2014 12:06 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Sorry but I've just got to vent as I'm watching this - Kehoe blames social media for too many parents rushing to the scene. Sigh. Trying to remain calm. First of all, if you look at those pictures, you'd have a very difficult time suggesting that the most critical road blockage, in the most critical spot, was only or even primarily parent vehicles. Secondly, reverse 911 calls are not social media, and neither are scanners. What Vance and Kehoe mean to be saying is that living in modern world--which we've been doing now for some time--made it possible for parents to all get the message quickly that something was happening. Think, incidentally, about the conflict in their statements on social media in this meeting. First, they say social media is responsible for information so flawed and unreliable, that cops are responding to flimsy social media information and therefore chasing bad guys in all the wrong places. Then, they're saying that social media is so precise and speedy that all the parents immediately came to the exact same location at once. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 32909022 United States 05/29/2014 12:46 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Again, I don't mean that the CSP guys responding to 12/14 are bad. I mean that it's incredibly bad that no one is acknowledging what happened nor working to address it. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32639296 Beyond that, it is despicable that one lawyer, or his office, working for the state of Connecticut, being paid BY the people of Connecticut, is working subersively behind the scenes to spread disinformation regarding the emergency response. THAT is a crime--I don't care what our resident law office secretary says. I am still willing to bet CSP was there first. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 23018838 United States 05/30/2014 09:19 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | "A larger scope review of this incident would certainly show that one pathway in and out became clogged very rapidly because of all the responders--there was nowhere else for them to put their vehicles." By larger scope, he means one that includes a review of the CT State Police component as well as of other responding agencies. Reed is speaking only on the NPD respose. [link to www.governor.ct.gov] |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 58644211 United States 05/30/2014 05:56 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | A curious statement: That on December 14, 2012 at approximately 10:00 A.M., she arrived at Sandy Hook Elementary School and observed several police and ambulance vehicles in the driveway. D1 stated that very soon after she arrived, she observed two children and one injured teacher being carried out of the school and loaded into ambulances. XXXX stated that she then backed her vehicle down the driveway and parked at the Sandy Hook Fire House. 00033302 I think this may possibly be the typist who was supposed to be in the 9:30 a.m. meeting, fwiw. "Dance Party Friday was a celebratory ritual invented by Julie Obre, a school secretary...Obre’s workday normally started at 9:30 A.M.....But Obre wasn’t in yet." [link to www.vanityfair.com] |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 58644211 United States 05/30/2014 06:00 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | She backed down Dickinson--why? I don't know about you guys, but I never back in a school area if I can avoid it. Isn't it likely the case that she felt it was too crowded to try and turn around, so she had to back out the way she came? If she backed after seeing the patients loaded into ambulances, she must have arrived sometime between about 9:58 - 10:08 a.m. A2 announced at 10:08 that it was on its way to Danubury. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 58644211 United States 05/30/2014 06:13 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | "Upon arriving on the scene, Ofc. Bean parked the raid van on Dickinson Drive. At the time of arrival, Dickinson Drive was beginning to get filled with responding vehicles making only enough room for one lane of traffic. The Northwest Office's raid van was parked on the left side of the roadway heading towards the school a couple of car lengths past the driveway for the Sandy Hook Volunteer Fire Station." According to Sedensky's timline, Bean arrived at 10:19 a.m.: 10:19:35 Members of Statewide Narcotics Task Force Northwest Office ( SGT Thomas Bennett, Det Brian Marino, Officer Thomas Bean, Detective Scott Flockhart, Officer Michael McPadden, and Officer Jared Turner) arrive on scene. Also present, but not seen here is Tpr Janice Warkoski and Officer Leonard Greene. (Lt Davis’ video) [link to www.ctnewsjunkie.com] |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 58644211 United States 05/30/2014 06:14 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | "Upon arriving on the scene, Ofc. Bean parked the raid van on Dickinson Drive. At the time of arrival, Dickinson Drive was beginning to get filled with responding vehicles making only enough room for one lane of traffic. The Northwest Office's raid van was parked on the left side of the roadway heading towards the school a couple of car lengths past the driveway for the Sandy Hook Volunteer Fire Station." Quoting: Anonymous Coward 58644211 According to Sedensky's timline, Bean arrived at 10:19 a.m.: 10:19:35 Members of Statewide Narcotics Task Force Northwest Office ( SGT Thomas Bennett, Det Brian Marino, Officer Thomas Bean, Detective Scott Flockhart, Officer Michael McPadden, and Officer Jared Turner) arrive on scene. Also present, but not seen here is Tpr Janice Warkoski and Officer Leonard Greene. (Lt Davis’ video) [link to www.ctnewsjunkie.com] Note that Lt Davis' video would be showing Bean's arrival at the school on foot; ergo, Bean arrived at the FD slightly earlier. |