Sandy Hook: Problematic EMS/LE response times AKA 9:40 final shot is bunk

Niw compare Vance's briefing to the Franklin High briefing - the medical response, number of wounded, hospitals uses, etc are given prominence:

[link to www.youtube.com]

Night and day.

Two years after the first VA Tech report, and addendum was released:

From the intro:

"Governor Kaine asked the victims’ families and Virginia Tech to submit any corrections or additions they thought important by the end of August, 2009. The time was extended into September after discovery of Cho’s missing Cook Counseling Center records."

Is it reasonable to expect that Governor Malloy, the victims' families, and Newtown Public Schools will have submitted corrections or additions they thought important, sometime in 2014, and that an addendum to the Sandy Hook Final Report will be released?

It's almost like comparing a drill to the real thing....yeah I went there...

It is not just Vance either. Nobody in the press ever really asks about medical response. The govenor even moves right to evil visiting the town and talking with families but never discusses the heroic
medical response.

It's understandable that LT Vance's expertise is LE so it makes sense that he would focus on the " just the facts mam" criminal aspect. But he mentions the casualties in such an off hand way that it just does not make sense.

Last Edited by Dudeashaneo on 04/28/2014 07:43 PM

Do people realize that the following is a totally mythological statement?

"No ambulances were called to the scene, because none were needed--everyone was dead."

At 9:57, A2 drives to the end of Dickenson as far as we know and picks up one child from NPD officer Chapman, then heads to Danbury. A2 does not go up to the school.

AT 10:58:01 a.m., CSP dispatch calls Jenn Barocsi in Newtown and tells her to direct ambulances to the base of the school, because they're bringing injured parties out. Jenn relays the info to someone in the Newtown office (should be Nute), and tells the CSP dispatcher, "Okay."

No ambulance is directed to the scene; in fact, Newtown tells ambulances NOT to enter the scene.

CSP again requests EMS to go to Room 1; then again requests EMS to go to Room 9. No ambulances come.

CSP continues to call, with increasing tension for ambulances and buses to be sent to the base of the school.

No ambulances come; CSP officers then begin to yell to one another for police cruisers to be brought up to the base of the school.

By this point, an NPD officer inside the school is also yelling for ambulances; no ambulances come.

A2 is already gone, and A3 has had a patient brought by police car and is ostensibly gone, though it never transmits. A3 does not approach the school.

Despite repeated requests from CSP officers and dispatchers, as well as NPD officers, for ambulances to be sent to the school--and EMS to be sent to specific rooms within the school--not a single ambulance is ever dispatched to enter the scene. Never. Not once. Not for the entire event.

It is not true that ambulance were not requested because they were "not needed" or because "everyone was black tagged." Everyone was NOT black tagged. Ambulances were needed and needed desperately and were never dispatched.

Several immediate reasons:

Only two rigs were at staging at the time ambulances were requested, despite the fact that a shooting was reported over the air at 9:36 a.m. These rigs were instantly at capacity by the time the first victims were brought out. There was literally no available ambulance to send into the scene at 9:58 per CSP's request, 22 minutes after the shooting had been reported.

The Newtown call log reflects a third ambulance rolling that morning, but for some reason that ambulance is immediately called off; have to find that. It's in the CSP report. It was not listed as A1; unknown which rig this was. A1 was apparently out of commission that day (why?)

So in summary, it seems a partial list of reasons that CSP's repeated requests for ambulances went unanswered were:

1. One rig out of commission
2. Two remaining rigs already in use
3. No additional/regional rigs yet on scene

Again, it is absolutely untrue that ambulances were not called for because they were "not needed." Whatever the answer is, it's not that.

Great summary. I must say I sense more panic in your post then I have in any video footage of that day at all.

Another nagging thing is with all the ambulance calling you are referring to... by this time we would be at the chopper 12 footage. There is no panic in any of that footage.

There are no police running and screaming. Shannon Hicks does not have any medics running to the scene only walking with stretchers.

Well, there's a big time gap between the various photos.

At the time Chapman was running with OE, CSP were starting to scream for ambulances, civilians in the parking lot were screaming into 911 calls for ambulances, and even NPD were yelling for ambulances (not dispatch, but officers on scene). This was all around 9:57 a.m. - 10:08 a.m.

Later on, the people pushing the stretchers and such, was over an hour later, around the time Deb Pisani was transported, 11:17 a.m. or so.

But the audio is the thing to review if you want to sense the early moments. One can read all one wants of a printed timeline and transcript, but the audio, both 911 calls and police/EMS audio, gives far more information to the brain, both to our intellectual and emotional intelligences.

There is utter, paralyzed panic in some of those calls. Raspy, hyperventilating, throat-clenching terror. I feel it's real, because I've occasionally made those sounds myself when extremely scared, as has probably anyone here.

The call from the parent in the parking lot, for example, whose daughter was in the school--pure truth. That is not acting. I don't think even the most hardened person here would think so.

If you wanted to stage something and have it be believed, you'd absolutely, positively have to have tons of the people involved believing it's real. Otherwise it would never, ever succeed, would never, ever be believable.

At any rate, no perfectly-planned hoax is going to have CSP and NPD officers screaming for ambulances only to have NPD dispatch deny them those ambulances, with CSP guys then loading kids into SUV cargo holds, at least I don't think so.

So maybe it was a "playing God" kind of drill, just throwing all participants to the wind and letting them fail dramatically in many ways. Who knows.

Or maybe it was real, and people did fail dramatically in many ways, and then try to cover it up. Who knows.

So in reviewing the sequence of events vis-a-vis the ambulances, there seems to be a wrestling match between the officers (both CSP and NPD) on scene, and dispatch. This is not uncommon: cowboys on scene want to rescue people, but dispatch is told to keep all EMS out until the scene is clear.

The question is--and always is--who has the authority to declare the scene clear enough for ambulances to enter?

This is what happens:

1. Newtown ambulances reach second staging at FD

2. A2 announces proceeding into scene at request of police

3. Newtown dispatch acknowledges A2 is proceeding to scene

4. Newtown dispatch has semi-encrypted conversation with NPD (Kullgren) on scene, culminating with Kullgren saying, "That is all that we know at this time."

5. Newtown dispatch changes his mind and chews A2 and A3 out saying "At this time, PD has not requested your arrival at that scene yet." Note: Newtown dispatch is clearly indicating it is NPD who will determine scene safety, not CSP. CSP at this time is screaming for ambulances, followed closely in time by NPD officers.

6. A2 and A3 both have patients brought to them at 10:02 a.m., in unorthodox fashion--by hand, and by cruiser. A2 relays message to Newtown dispatch: "Call for everything." Both ambulances leave for Danbury.

7. There are literally no rigs left to respond to CSP and NPD officers who are continuing to beg for ambulances and buses at the school.

8. At 10:04:06, an emotional Newtown dispatch transmits: "Newtown hook and ladder, Rescue 112, respond, 12 Dickenson Drive, Sandy Hook school. Medical emergencies. Newtown hook and ladder Sandy Hook school, medical emergencies."

That call goes out almost half an hour after the first 911 call. CSP and NPD on scene have been screaming for ambulances for at least seven minutes. At that point, all Newtown's ambulances are already used up and gone. There is not a single soul on scene to transport remaining injured.

I get your point. But that panic and hyperventilating would have been picked up at some point in interviews during the day. " on scene " reporters would have found at lease ONE frantic person still shook up from what was taking place. But nobody. You show me one interview or one sequence that shows this panic. There is none.

The press conferences by the police... not one looks like they were just devastated by what just took place. Don't give me this crap about it being their jobs. This is children for crying out loud. The governor does not even look shaken. Evil visited this town today? Really? The governors opening statement is to tell people that he had been spoken to that something like this would happen one day. What? That is your reaction to a gut wrenching thought of someone opening fire into a school of innocent children?

Honestly just show me all this emotion you are trying to get me to believe took place. You might here it in the calls but nothing else in that day even resembles the severity of what supposedly happened that day.

Yeah, totally agree. Where's the emotion in the interviews??

Man, there is no way that if I knew 20 other people's kids had been killed at my kid's school, that I would be saying things like "this it the best day of my life" and so on. I well remember my reaction when hearing some of the surviving children's parents saying that--some were laughing, relieved, joking, totally giddy their child was okay. That's all well and good except that had 20 other kids literally died, there is no way parents would be so crass even though inwardly they were rejoicing. The only thing I can think of is that possibly when people were interviewed, no one yet knew that 20 kids had died.

Because they thought they were part of a drill......?

But at any rate, it should be pointed out to every single shill and/or misinformed individual that it is NOT true ambulances were 1) not requested and 2) not needed. They were requested repeatedly, were needed, and never came.

Sure.

[link to vimeo.com]

There is no emotion. Richard Wilford son is even laughing and he was in the school.

In fact the vast majority of everyone's comments and the events we witness in this video have to do with the topic of the shooter. Not what happened.

Last Edited by Dudeashaneo on 04/28/2014 11:02 PM

The request was obviously part of the script. But as Dude stated, there was no concern, no trauma, no chaos, just folks circling around the fire house eating hors d'oeuvres and chasing independent reporters away.... that's about it. Oh yeah, and LEO's wandering around in tennis shoes and t-shirts. Lot's of smiling folks and few epic pics of specific families attempting to look distraught. At least that's what I got out of it. What did you get out of it?

Big difference in time between people in parking lot screaming for ambulances and people circling around firehouse.

Shannon Hicks' early photos seem silent and perhaps too calm because there is no sound, and no real series showing much movement.

It would give a more realistic feel to listen to the police and 911 call audio for that time stamp while looking at the pictures for that same stamp -- both to understand the truth better, and rule out the falsehoods better.

I don't understand whether Shannon herself hid what must be hundreds of remaining photos, or whether someone confiscated them, or...

Certainly most don't show injured victims, so why the incredible paucity of material? To force branding (i.e. force news outlets to use one, iconic photo only?)

There absolutely is concern, trauma and chaos in the police and 911 audio from 9:30 - 10:30 a.m.

Some callers are panicking so badly you literally can't understand them.

I don't know what it means in the context of the later calm.

In this entire investigation the lack of emotion has always bothered me. The possibility that police were covering up a multiple shooter option does not fit with the lack of emotion at all.

The teachers dont have that gut wrenching display of helplessness from being unable to do anything or to stop it.

They assign the pricipal a hero status but not one person breaks down and sobs at the fact that they could not save her.

You would think Kaitlin Roig would mention how aweful it was for her
to be in lockdown trying to calm her kids and then to find out what happened to her friend Vicky and her class. She never even mentions her utter sorrow at what happened. She now flies around the country and tells her story with no emotion.

Barbara Sibley thought the broken glass was strange...??? She does not tell Kaite Couric of her sheer terror of knowing her child is in that school and then never mentions the complete breakdown she had when she found out what happened.

And no one even talks about Mary Sherlach.

Also, I can't remember the last time D'Avino was mentioned.

I hadn't realized Kaitlin Roig was in news footage until just the other day.

"Do you friggen realize what a horrific scene the LEO's came upon? Do you realize that small bodies shot multiple times that have grey matter splattered from their heads are beyond help?"

-------------------------------------------

Are you really this friggin stupid that you think a severely autistic 120-pound weakling with no weapons training was able to not only kill 26 of the 28 people he aimed his gun at, but now that he supposedly did it all with head shots??

Gimme a friggin break.

Another reason Sedensky is trying to sell the 9:40 "final shot" is to make it seem more logical that cops "took until 9:51 to find a (quiet) dead shooter."

Cops weren't even inside the school until 9:46, so if there was 'no more shooting' they couldn't have located him by the sound.

In reality, there was quite a bit more shooting, and some of it sure sounds like an exchange of fire to me--definitely multiple weapons, being fired at very different distances from the telephone that was recording it all.

THIS!!!! ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

Interesting that you say Sedensky is trying to sell the 9:40 " final shot". That is a pretty nasty accusation.

We are right back to the same conundrum with one HUGE tell.

I say it was a drill hijacked for a larger purpose.

or

As you say they are covering up something...if you take the story at face value and we use your idea that Sedensky is covering up information about what happened at a crime that ended up with children murdered...but I know you won't speculate.


[link to vimeo.com]

I have to keep going back to this AP reporters random clips of the day.

Do this for me please At 1:38 in the video the cop is essentially ignoring the two dudes coming out of the woods with cameras but looks to be looking for bad guys. Weapon drawn and looks to be directing a search. If I use your scenario and there might be another shooter in the area you really think this cop is just going to let these 2 dudes in and out of a possible perimeter without at least asking them for ID?

But even more telling...let the video roll and realize that when Richard Wilford is being interviewed these two dudes that came out of the woods appear behind Richard. That tells me that this is definitely around 11am to 1pm. They are all just finding out what happened. Does Richard Wilford seem at all freaked out about the fact that there was someone peeling off 100's of rounds in a school his son was just in? Remember Richard's wife was the one who called into Diane Sawyer telling of the " 100's of rounds" her friend in the school heard.

The cops don't have any sense of urgency. NONE! You tell me they are really trying to secure the area. The one dude texting while holding his pistol.

Again. Tell me how this lack of response, sense of urgency, or panic can possibly be when 20 kids were just murdered?

And to think in this video early on there might be " another shooter " in the area? Right....they look really concerned about making sure the public is not in harms way.

Why did they transport two injured kids to danbury hospital and not use the helicopters to provide faster better care ?

Cause it was BS !!

Yep. Read what that Florida State trooper has to say about this. That will be his first in a list of questions to authorities in CT if he ever gets his case heard. WHY WERE THE MEDIVAC CHOPPERS NEVER CALLED>

That is THE #1 smoking gun in this whole sordid affair (if the whole "Laura Phelps"-Jennifer Greenberg Sexton thing isn't.)

Medivac choppers would have been one of the first things on the scene , well before the cops would have known if their were survivors or not.

They have the best equipment and top doctors to deal with such an event.

The first hour is crucial for survivors so they would have been there just in case they were needed.

Who the f**k sends only two ambulances to a multiple shooting ?

Who does that? Oh.I don't know.....maybe those who want to limit exposure to a ......drill?

THIS ^ ^ ^ ^

From the wiki page:

"As of November 30, 2012, 456 children were enrolled in kindergarten through fourth grade at Sandy Hook Elementary School."


How could they know before the shooting stopped that he hadn't killed 100 or more ????

They may have needed 50 or 100 ambulances but they only sent 2 ?

It just reeks of BS all over.

The 2 biggest tells in this story is lack of any emotion and a severe lack of concern about medical response.