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| 05:20 AM | ||
| Users Online Now: 920 (Who's On?) | Visitors Today: 303,622 | |
| Pageviews Today: 460,971 | Threads Today: 179 | Posts Today: 2,336 |
| 05:20 AM | ||
Discussion with pastor last night... | |
| ITZCOMING Offer Upgrade  User ID: 12781064  United States05/22/2014 11:08 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| bruisedhalo User ID: 11660675 United States05/22/2014 11:20 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The church is at the mercy of the state. If they comment on politics openly they risk losing the 501 status because of the miriad of laws granting that status. That means the church is a corporation. A TRUE church wont rely on the 501 status and will speak the truth. But to find a TRUE church is a difficult task. Your right in saying that is part of what is wrong in society. Now come up with a way to correct the problem. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 30912754 United States05/22/2014 11:21 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 48865774 United States05/22/2014 11:24 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 51954268 United States05/22/2014 11:25 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| ITZCOMING (OP) User ID: 12781064 United States05/22/2014 11:26 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The church is at the mercy of the state. If they comment on politics openly they risk losing the 501 status because of the miriad of laws granting that status. That means the church is a corporation. A TRUE church wont rely on the 501 status and will speak the truth. But to find a TRUE church is a difficult task. Your right in saying that is part of what is wrong in society. Now come up with a way to correct the problem. Quoting: bruisedhalo I explained that to him. I even had a copy of the IRS rules in front of me so I was sure to quote the rules correctly. He even agreed that persecution of Christians in the country will get worse and worse. But still we are not to be involved. It's like... well, whatever... I explained to him that some enforcement of the rules are probably coming down the pike, and would he follow those? He said he would not. Since the artificial person of the corporation owns everything, I explain that all assess would be seized. He shrugged his shoulders. |
| Visitor User ID: 1354586 United States05/22/2014 11:30 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | This teaching will be going over an excellent write-up that Dr. Greg Dixon recently authorized entitled: “Caesar Calls in The Chips”. A slightly modified excerpt from this article reads: Pastor Mark Holick and Evangelist Bill Keller are bold as lions… even though their actions may fall into the “zeal without knowledge” category. Both find themselves in a running battle with the Internal Revenue Service over the content of their sermons and the direction that they believe God is leading them to conduct their ministries. While these men plead for their first amendment rights, their respective 501c3 churches left the protection of the First Amendment when they accepted the protection of the State for tax exempt status. Now they want to run back under the umbrella of the First Amendment when Caesar calls in the chips in the big poker game that the church entered years ago when they walked into the big Tax Exempt Casino, thinking that they could play and never have to pay. Well, as Dr. R.G. Lee used to preach that famous sermon, “Pay Day Some Day” all of a sudden pay day is NOW. [link to www.contendingfortruth.com] |
| ITZCOMING (OP) User ID: 12781064 United States05/22/2014 11:31 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I agree with the pastor....for many reasons. Quoting: Lisa*Lisa This isn't our home, we are not to conform to this world, not to love this world. Politics are a big part of the world and satan's system. Satan runs that show, and you want to be part of it? I dont. I see your point, that our citizen ship is in heaven. And he brought that up. Does that mean we bend over and take it? Again... The Black Regiment during the revolutionary war, and Dietrich Bonhoeffer to name only two. Hitlers Germany was FULL of Churches that were not politically involved, looking the other way as trainloads Jews passed the Churches on Sunday. Bonhoeffer was an exception. Actually, they were involved. By default. Not doing anything was tantamount to support. First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 24413414 United States05/22/2014 11:38 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Wednesday is "hot topics" night at the Church (non-denominational) that I started going to 34 weeks ago. Quoting: ITZCOMING Last night discussion was "should the Church be involved in politics". I was ready with info on 501(c)3 and how lyndon Johnson used it to shut up the Church and get the mouth of politics. I guarantee that of the 20 people there, nobody knew anything about 501's and how it affects the Church. When I mentioned it, the pastor answered me, but it was like I didn't even mention 501's. It was a sort of... non-answer. Long story short, the message was "don't be involved in politics. It's a distraction". I was not surprised. What could I expect except for the pastor to defend the status quo? Don't get me wrong, he's a nice guy (too nice) who's young, but has been round the block. He's not a straight to seminary guy. Had hard times with alcohol and such before turning his life around. In my opinion, this is exactly what is wrong these days. Is it any wonder that state by state, gay "marriage" is being legislated, among things? After the meeting, the pastor pulled me into his office. He just wanted to chat. I reiterated some of my points, and more. Funny how the lone dissenter gets pulled aside. He was not chastising me or telling me to not talk about it, he just was reinforcing his point. We disagreed. History is full of pastors that were involved. The Black Regiment, Dietrich Bonhoeffer (just read his book)... What do you guys think? You were correct to bring this issue to light. The 501.c3 designation is a mixing of the church with the state. Exactly as Christ warned us not to do. Any church with a 501c3 has a legal obligation NOT to speak on certain subjects. You should leave that church. The Truth is/will be censored there. |
| ITZCOMING (OP) User ID: 12781064 United States05/22/2014 11:41 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | This teaching will be going over an excellent write-up that Dr. Greg Dixon recently authorized entitled: “Caesar Calls in The Chips”. A slightly modified excerpt from this article reads: Pastor Mark Holick and Evangelist Bill Keller are bold as lions… even though their actions may fall into the “zeal without knowledge” category. Both find themselves in a running battle with the Internal Revenue Service over the content of their sermons and the direction that they believe God is leading them to conduct their ministries. While these men plead for their first amendment rights, their respective 501c3 churches left the protection of the First Amendment when they accepted the protection of the State for tax exempt status. Now they want to run back under the umbrella of the First Amendment when Caesar calls in the chips in the big poker game that the church entered years ago when they walked into the big Tax Exempt Casino, thinking that they could play and never have to pay. Well, as Dr. R.G. Lee used to preach that famous sermon, “Pay Day Some Day” all of a sudden pay day is NOW. Quoting: Visitor 1354586 [link to www.contendingfortruth.com] Yup. There is actually an organizatino: [link to www.speakupmovement.org] That once a year has a couple of thousand Churches participate in preaching a risky sermon, then sending the transcript to the IRS. Noble, but misguided. They signed up for 501. If they want "pulpit freedom" then they need to dissolve it. But that comes at a very high financial price. And I'm guessing they wont do that. There are more and more Churches starting that are not 501's . This is one of them. Brilliant teaching you won't find many places. [link to oldpathsbaptistchurch.org] I asked the Church I used to go to if they would participate in teh "Pulpit Freedom" day. The answer from the pastor? "It's not nice to poke the government with a stick". I knew then that when push came to shove they would not have the congregations back. We left. |
| Brussel Sprout User ID: 58348150  Belgium05/22/2014 11:42 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 56715711 United States05/22/2014 11:55 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| ITZCOMING (OP) User ID: 12781064 United States05/22/2014 11:57 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 56715711 United States05/22/2014 11:58 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Truthserum User ID: 736685 United States05/22/2014 12:00 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Wednesday is "hot topics" night at the Church (non-denominational) that I started going to 34 weeks ago. Quoting: ITZCOMING Last night discussion was "should the Church be involved in politics". I was ready with info on 501(c)3 and how lyndon Johnson used it to shut up the Church and get the mouth of politics. I guarantee that of the 20 people there, nobody knew anything about 501's and how it affects the Church. When I mentioned it, the pastor answered me, but it was like I didn't even mention 501's. It was a sort of... non-answer. Long story short, the message was "don't be involved in politics. It's a distraction". I was not surprised. What could I expect except for the pastor to defend the status quo? Don't get me wrong, he's a nice guy (too nice) who's young, but has been round the block. He's not a straight to seminary guy. Had hard times with alcohol and such before turning his life around. In my opinion, this is exactly what is wrong these days. Is it any wonder that state by state, gay "marriage" is being legislated, among things? After the meeting, the pastor pulled me into his office. He just wanted to chat. I reiterated some of my points, and more. Funny how the lone dissenter gets pulled aside. He was not chastising me or telling me to not talk about it, he just was reinforcing his point. We disagreed. History is full of pastors that were involved. The Black Regiment, Dietrich Bonhoeffer (just read his book)... What do you guys think? Your pastor is correct. Why participate in something that is a creation of Satan? (Politics). God had a plan for us, he created paradise on this planet. IF we followed Gods laws there would be no need for politics...the only reason for them now is because Satan uses them to do his bidding.....you will continue to see(as you already have) politics and politicians used to do Satans work and his influence in it is growing every day.... FACTS Don't Give a DAMN about your FEELINGS! |
| ITZCOMING (OP) User ID: 12781064 United States05/22/2014 12:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Wednesday is "hot topics" night at the Church (non-denominational) that I started going to 34 weeks ago. Quoting: ITZCOMING Last night discussion was "should the Church be involved in politics". I was ready with info on 501(c)3 and how lyndon Johnson used it to shut up the Church and get the mouth of politics. I guarantee that of the 20 people there, nobody knew anything about 501's and how it affects the Church. When I mentioned it, the pastor answered me, but it was like I didn't even mention 501's. It was a sort of... non-answer. Long story short, the message was "don't be involved in politics. It's a distraction". I was not surprised. What could I expect except for the pastor to defend the status quo? Don't get me wrong, he's a nice guy (too nice) who's young, but has been round the block. He's not a straight to seminary guy. Had hard times with alcohol and such before turning his life around. In my opinion, this is exactly what is wrong these days. Is it any wonder that state by state, gay "marriage" is being legislated, among things? After the meeting, the pastor pulled me into his office. He just wanted to chat. I reiterated some of my points, and more. Funny how the lone dissenter gets pulled aside. He was not chastising me or telling me to not talk about it, he just was reinforcing his point. We disagreed. History is full of pastors that were involved. The Black Regiment, Dietrich Bonhoeffer (just read his book)... What do you guys think? Your pastor is correct. Why participate in something that is a creation of Satan? (Politics). God had a plan for us, he created paradise on this planet. IF we followed Gods laws there would be no need for politics...the only reason for them now is because Satan uses them to do his bidding.....you will continue to see(as you already have) politics and politicians used to do Satans work and his influence in it is growing every day.... So... we were doing it wrong until 1954 when Lyndon Johnson created the 501(c)3 for Churches and saved us all from politics? Look at the US compared to 1954. Hows that work'n for us? |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 56715711 United States05/22/2014 12:12 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So... we were doing it wrong until 1954 when Lyndon Johnson created the 501(c)3 for Churches and saved us all from politics? Quoting: ITZCOMING Look at the US compared to 1954. Hows that work'n for us? More like Protestant v. Catholic was a useful chat which leadeth to truth, hence, completely removed from modern life. What else in the 1954 era? Eisenhower gave us the American Autobahn, which I treasure, how about you? |
| ITZCOMING (OP) User ID: 12781064 United States05/22/2014 12:15 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I mean by having "arguement night" The church I go to is afraid to do so. I see, but I'm not so sure... my opinion (statement of facts actually) would have been welcome if that were the case. Instead I was asked to come into his office when we were done. I was nearly out the door in 10 seconds, but he was sure to grab me before I got out. When he asked I said "we can talk in the hall". Nope. In the office. And when I talked about the corporate status... ignored in the group. Again, don't get me wrong. I don't think he's a bad person. He's a great guy I could be friends with. Heck, the Church even has shooting events for men and women where we all grab our guns and go shooting. I just think he's wrong in this case. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 53302497 United States05/22/2014 12:15 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| ITZCOMING (OP) User ID: 12781064 United States05/22/2014 12:17 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So... we were doing it wrong until 1954 when Lyndon Johnson created the 501(c)3 for Churches and saved us all from politics? Quoting: ITZCOMING Look at the US compared to 1954. Hows that work'n for us? More like Protestant v. Catholic was a useful chat which leadeth to truth, hence, completely removed from modern life. What else in the 1954 era? Eisenhower gave us the American Autobahn, which I treasure, how about you? I'm not sure what that has to do with the subject. What I mean was look at the state of society and politics since 1954. Look at crime, the huge prison population, the sewer of the public schools, the domestic spying, the police brutality, the sodomite agenda, 54 million abortions... |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 1518608 United States05/22/2014 12:21 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I agree with the pastor....for many reasons. Quoting: Lisa*Lisa This isn't our home, we are not to conform to this world, not to love this world. Politics are a big part of the world and satan's system. Satan runs that show, and you want to be part of it? I dont. I see your point, that our citizen ship is in heaven. And he brought that up. Does that mean we bend over and take it? Again... The Black Regiment during the revolutionary war, and Dietrich Bonhoeffer to name only two. Hitlers Germany was FULL of Churches that were not politically involved, looking the other way as trainloads Jews passed the Churches on Sunday. Bonhoeffer was an exception. Actually, they were involved. By default. Not doing anything was tantamount to support. First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me. I agree with you totally. I think too many pastors hide behind the 501 status idea too much! As much as I believe we are to "render unto Ceaser that which is Ceasar's" I still believe as christians that we have a responsibility to make certain our world doesn't degenerate into a chaotic mess where the devil runs rampant (although it's apparent we already have). Examples: Gay marriage - God is Sooooo against that! Beastiality, devil worship. The quote from Bonhoffer makes the point exactly. We sit idly by - thinking "it's not affecting me" - and then one day we can no longer say, "I believe marriage is between one man and one woman" (as an example), because now it IS affecting me, but no one is left to stand with us and make our voices count. That's why prayer got taken out of schools. Everybody said, "The church should stick to the church business and stay out of it" but it was OUR KIDS, and now look what deplorable places schools are! When they took the 10 Commandments out of government buildings, etc. It's a slippery slide, a slow road, gradually. I had the privilege of sitting under the teaching of Dr. D. James Kennedy in Ft. Lauderdale for many years. He quoted BOnhoffer a lot, and he thoroughly believed that if the christians don't stand up for what is right, and God's opinion is what is right, then no one would, and one day we would all wonder how we got so unGodly in this blessed place. I believe that day is here. :-( |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 25747931  Finland05/22/2014 12:21 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Wednesday is "hot topics" night at the Church (non-denominational) that I started going to 34 weeks ago. Quoting: ITZCOMING Last night discussion was "should the Church be involved in politics". I was ready with info on 501(c)3 and how lyndon Johnson used it to shut up the Church and get the mouth of politics. I guarantee that of the 20 people there, nobody knew anything about 501's and how it affects the Church. When I mentioned it, the pastor answered me, but it was like I didn't even mention 501's. It was a sort of... non-answer. Long story short, the message was "don't be involved in politics. It's a distraction". I was not surprised. What could I expect except for the pastor to defend the status quo? Don't get me wrong, he's a nice guy (too nice) who's young, but has been round the block. He's not a straight to seminary guy. Had hard times with alcohol and such before turning his life around. In my opinion, this is exactly what is wrong these days. Is it any wonder that state by state, gay "marriage" is being legislated, among things? After the meeting, the pastor pulled me into his office. He just wanted to chat. I reiterated some of my points, and more. Funny how the lone dissenter gets pulled aside. He was not chastising me or telling me to not talk about it, he just was reinforcing his point. We disagreed. History is full of pastors that were involved. The Black Regiment, Dietrich Bonhoeffer (just read his book)... What do you guys think? Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. Mystery Babylon is the church and we are ordered to come out of her. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 58278858 United States05/22/2014 12:57 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The church is at the mercy of the state. If they comment on politics openly they risk losing the 501 status because of the miriad of laws granting that status. That means the church is a corporation. A TRUE church wont rely on the 501 status and will speak the truth. But to find a TRUE church is a difficult task. Your right in saying that is part of what is wrong in society. Now come up with a way to correct the problem. Quoting: bruisedhalo . ... as we ALL are! ... . ... until the True King of Kings comes we are under the control of the ruler of this world ... . ... when the governments fail ... the people will continue ... . ... indeed ... live in a relationship with The Father and Son ... . ... and that is beyond a "church" ... . |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 1416114  Sweden05/22/2014 01:01 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| jhahka User ID: 48045057 United States05/22/2014 01:11 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If You're A True Believer, You Can See Exactly What Is Happening In The World. Everything Is Going According To God's Plan And You Ca Not Go Against It. Life Is A Vapor And God Uses His Church To Save The Lost. God Does Not Want Us To Be Of This World, Just In It For A Short Time. Your Focus Should Be On Souls, Not 501 C3's, etc. God already won. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 40833289 United States05/22/2014 01:16 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Wednesday is "hot topics" night at the Church (non-denominational) that I started going to 34 weeks ago. Quoting: ITZCOMING Last night discussion was "should the Church be involved in politics". I was ready with info on 501(c)3 and how lyndon Johnson used it to shut up the Church and get the mouth of politics. I guarantee that of the 20 people there, nobody knew anything about 501's and how it affects the Church. When I mentioned it, the pastor answered me, but it was like I didn't even mention 501's. It was a sort of... non-answer. Long story short, the message was "don't be involved in politics. It's a distraction". I was not surprised. What could I expect except for the pastor to defend the status quo? Don't get me wrong, he's a nice guy (too nice) who's young, but has been round the block. He's not a straight to seminary guy. Had hard times with alcohol and such before turning his life around. In my opinion, this is exactly what is wrong these days. Is it any wonder that state by state, gay "marriage" is being legislated, among things? After the meeting, the pastor pulled me into his office. He just wanted to chat. I reiterated some of my points, and more. Funny how the lone dissenter gets pulled aside. He was not chastising me or telling me to not talk about it, he just was reinforcing his point. We disagreed. History is full of pastors that were involved. The Black Regiment, Dietrich Bonhoeffer (just read his book)... What do you guys think? Sorry the pastor is wrong. We are supposed to be the salt. If we dont speak up, who will? Everyone else is pushing immorality and godlessness. Yeshua spoke to TPTW of his time. Part of the problem with this country is the church left education, media, politics, etc. Give up the tax exempt status if you have to. Maybe then they would care about what the government is doing to this country and the people. This world may not be all there is, but it was created by God and we, who are children of God, are supposed to take dominion and authority |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 52621665 United States05/22/2014 01:18 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 52621665 United States05/22/2014 01:21 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Before you talk about gay marriage you should adress the 700 military bases in 120 countries and a president that gives oders that he knows will kill children. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1416114 Agree. Or possibly the widespread dirt being uncovered regarding sexual abuses in America's churches far & wide. Bill Gothard, etc. If we christers could get our own shit together and clean house, we might really be getting somewhere. But, no - the sin and corruption is always "out there". |
