How can anyone honestly believe there is free will

For example, you were born into a family of punk rockers. You grow up and rebel against punk due to their inherent rebellious ethos of your family. You turn to country music instead. It's all ultimately a result of what you were born into and the people and influences you had.

re-name this thread to "conversations in the Pasture" please.
Moniker name could be black sheep- BS for short

You added nothing useful to this conversation. It's alright, it was your destiny to do so.

Were you forced to begin the thread?

No, pretty sure it was free will. I didn't have to set you straight with my sarcastic insight

Yes

And even though I am allowed to do anything, I must not become a slave to anything. 1 Corinthians 6:12

We all have free will. We have no other choice.

How do you believe that? Have you considered my viewpoint?

I have free will.

if I want to pick my left nostril, I pick my left nostril.
if I want to pick my right nostril, I pick my right nostril.

there, you have it. free will.

You can choose, from possibilities GIVEN. No real freedom

this is called "conditioning." it happens when outside forces have a part in moulding an object. not the same thing, dude.

Pick a number between 1 to 1000.

That number you picked, is it due to freewill, or were you predestined to choose that number?

pre-destiny crap again

cat aholics believe in that crap

i have chosen my own path and made it by my own will....

i make my own destiny

I can pick other people's noses, too.
within the Matrix, I can do anything that the Laws of Nature allow, at my whim. that is Free Will.
it doesn't mean that I can do anything imaginable - there will always be limitations - but while I'm in the Matrix, I can do whatever I want.

None of the arguments (if you can call them that) for free will are convincing.

are we playing 'Oregon Trails,' all of a sudden?

Not even that because there are always consequences, within a matrix. The deadly ones as well.

When you wake up, you can do whatever you want.

So be it!

Or you have that illusion. I'm not sure at this point. I do know that when you have certain insights and neurological know-how you can effect real change in your mindset. But still the question remains: was I destined for this?

Actually, in dreams you can be free more than in this world.

You chose to play. It doesn't last forever. It's like taking a psychedelic drug.. either it's a good trip or a bad one.
You will come out of it eventually and say.. "Fuck! well, that was weird!" and you will see your friends again and be like: "It's great to see you!" and they will chuckle and say: "We were always here with you!"

"How did you like it?"

You have to remember the understanding.

Spirit school..

so, what? of course there are consequences, that has nothing to do with the topic. I've faced those consequences many times, by choosing the things that I chose. simple as that.

It is getting worse with every bad choice made, was my point. The way leading to your demiss.

Free will is not equal to accountibility. Obviously if someone murders we need to isolate them from society. But still they did not truly choose their actions.

Ultimately, there is free will unless you're dealing with aliens that can alter the consequences of your actions; even then it probably plays a role. At any given time you can go crazy and do something based on your will; even animals can do that.

We all do have a certain amount of so called "free will", the exact amount needed in order to develop any individual difference in mentality built on different ways of perceiving realities - allowed by that exact amount of "individual free will".

Free will becomes an illusion when is seen in a larger "panorama" of how things are linked to one another.

But, for an individual existence, the illusion of "total" free will is necessary as it is the amount of "free will" inscribed in the individual paths of lives for the sake of evolution of all creation.

Suicide blows your theory out of the water.

Sure much of this reality is scripted or at least the different paths laid out before us. But there would be zero purpose in enacting a play. That's just impossible because the universe does not blatantly waste energy on things with absolutely zero purpose.

So...the purpose of this is to learn and experience which means that it CANT be entirely scripted.

Ultimately the human brain is not powerful enough to understand the final details of the whole program. Not even the ten smartest men on earth can come close. So figure it out best you can and then get yourself a nice cold beer. There's no point in wasting your life dwelling on the shit when you can use that energy learning and experiencing things, which after all, is your highest purpose.