Godlike Productions - Conspiracy Forum
Users Online Now: 1,132 (Who's On?)Visitors Today: 547,360
Pageviews Today: 706,094Threads Today: 182Posts Today: 2,078
05:44 AM


Rate this Thread

Absolute BS Crap Reasonable Nice Amazing
 

Rosetta Comet Orbiter ** And the winner is .. ( landing site )** Smell the comet !! ** Fun with Jets ** Rosetta gets great mileage ** 174 Tvolts

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 18998741
United States
08/17/2014 02:35 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Rosetta Comet Orbiter ** And the winner is .. ( landing site )** Smell the comet !! ** Fun with Jets ** Rosetta gets great mileage ** 174 Tvolts
Ha, you are too quick replying!

Man with a shovel action ( see above) is self-evident on bodies like Vesta (a planetary embryo according to Nasa), Mars and Phobos to name just 3 in our system.
 Quoting: BG-Fan


There, fixed that for you. I remember some guy saying "I'm not going to post any videos or ramble about EU going forward here." If you want to talk about electrickery, keep it relevant to Rosetta and comet 67P. This is not a general electrickery thread.

If scientists are having to change their theory of planetary formation due to the data from Dawn on the asteroid Vesta.
 Quoting: BG-Fan


Vesta suffered a remelting event ( unique amongst large asteroids ) shortly after formation. You will tell me that was because it was plugged into the mains, most other people would conclude it was most likely a large impact event. I don't want this to become a Vesta thread though, why not start a Vesta thread of your own?

You asked something about the schedule of orbits and mapping before. I will check what I have written about that and if I didn't cover it properly I will make a new post about it. In the meantime, here is the schedule for orbital manoeuvres over the next few weeks.




[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

K
 Quoting: K Hall

DUDE seriously, you're fucking lame, you dont want to discuss anything that debate your EGO HELD beliefs???

god you suck major astro balls. everyone is in the know that the current model is bogus and nasa has just started to use words like voltage just recently.

to me it seems like "settle Science" is starting to sound more like EU.

Hey better late than never i guess.
BG-Fan

User ID: 59478464
United States
08/17/2014 02:44 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Rosetta Comet Orbiter ** And the winner is .. ( landing site )** Smell the comet !! ** Fun with Jets ** Rosetta gets great mileage ** 174 Tvolts
Last week Nasa announced that Siding Spring will cause auroras in the Martian atmosphere.

Several weeks ago McCanney said the same thing on his radio program - alluding to the comet's electrical interaction with Mars.

This seems to be an unprecedented statement from Nasa. No where in the history of their commentary of comets has this ever been stated. In fact, when Hally passed close to Earth in 1910 no such phenomenon was reported or even speculated.

From a standard theory standpoint how exactly does a comet with a fuzzy watery coma cause auroras??

We know from standard science that auroras are an electrical phenomenon.

"An aurora is a natural light display in the sky, especially in the high latitude regions, caused by the collision of solar wind and magnetospheric charged particles with the high altitude atmosphere"


And yes according to standard theory they rely a great deal on magnetism while almost completely ignoring electrical conditions all together. So given that Mars basically has no magnetosphere, it makes the Martian aurora claim all the more fantastical from standard theory, doesn't it?
"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible" - Frank Zappa
Hydra

User ID: 32047827
Germany
08/17/2014 03:18 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Rosetta Comet Orbiter ** And the winner is .. ( landing site )** Smell the comet !! ** Fun with Jets ** Rosetta gets great mileage ** 174 Tvolts
Last week Nasa announced that Siding Spring will cause auroras in the Martian atmosphere.

Several weeks ago McCanney said the same thing on his radio program
 Quoting: BG-Fan

James Dimwit McCanney also said that ISON is bigger than Mars (was it?) and would change the orbit of Mars (did it?).


This seems to be an unprecedented statement from Nasa. No where in the history of their commentary of comets has this ever been stated. In fact, when Hally passed close to Earth in 1910 no such phenomenon was reported or even speculated.
 Quoting: BG-Fan

Earth went through the tail of Halley's Comet - it was never supposed to come in contact with its coma. In fact Halley was 22 million kilometers away at closest approach.


And yes according to standard theory they rely a great deal on magnetism while almost completely ignoring electrical conditions all together. So given that Mars basically has no magnetosphere, it makes the Martian aurora claim all the more fantastical from standard theory, doesn't it?
 Quoting: BG-Fan

Did you read the NASA article? Or do you just parrot the ThunderDolts?

"Unlike Earth, which has a global magnetic field that shields our entire planet, Mars has a patchwork of "magnetic umbrellas" that sprout out of the surface in hundreds of places all around the planet. If Martian auroras occur, they would appear in the canopies of these magnetic umbrellas."
[link to science.nasa.gov]

Easy to research things - why don't you do it before you make a fool of yourself?

.
If the Moon is off, if Earth wobbles or if there is a pole shift
how can things like this, predicted decades ago, happen?

aseindia
Annular Solar Eclipse - January 15, 2010 - Rameshwaram, India
BG-Fan

User ID: 59478464
United States
08/17/2014 08:30 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Rosetta Comet Orbiter ** And the winner is .. ( landing site )** Smell the comet !! ** Fun with Jets ** Rosetta gets great mileage ** 174 Tvolts
Last week Nasa announced that Siding Spring will cause auroras in the Martian atmosphere.

Several weeks ago McCanney said the same thing on his radio program
 Quoting: BG-Fan

James Dimwit McCanney also said that ISON is bigger than Mars (was it?) and would change the orbit of Mars (did it?).


This seems to be an unprecedented statement from Nasa. No where in the history of their commentary of comets has this ever been stated. In fact, when Hally passed close to Earth in 1910 no such phenomenon was reported or even speculated.
 Quoting: BG-Fan

Earth went through the tail of Halley's Comet - it was never supposed to come in contact with its coma. In fact Halley was 22 million kilometers away at closest approach.


And yes according to standard theory they rely a great deal on magnetism while almost completely ignoring electrical conditions all together. So given that Mars basically has no magnetosphere, it makes the Martian aurora claim all the more fantastical from standard theory, doesn't it?
 Quoting: BG-Fan

Did you read the NASA article? Or do you just parrot the ThunderDolts?

"Unlike Earth, which has a global magnetic field that shields our entire planet, Mars has a patchwork of "magnetic umbrellas" that sprout out of the surface in hundreds of places all around the planet. If Martian auroras occur, they would appear in the canopies of these magnetic umbrellas."
[link to science.nasa.gov]

Easy to research things - why don't you do it before you make a fool of yourself?

.
 Quoting: Hydra


Uh-oh McCanney hot button. All hands on deck.

Looks like Nasa is parroting McCanney.

Yes, I read the article and posted about it on another thread last week. Got a great laugh out of the "magic umbrella" theory....lol

Still doesn't explain how a coma of gas and ice (per standard theory) will light up the atmosphere.

Where in that article does it say how these auroras will be "sparked"?

Here's another one for you all to chew on. I had mentioned the possibility of water falling on Mars from SS's tail on Astro's thread about SS a while back. I'm sure you remember.

Here's some tidbits from an article 3 days ago that speaks to the Mars orbiters and what they will be doing around the 19th of October.

"Oct 19 18:47-20:16: 2 CRISM and 4 HiRISE scans of the nucleus with CTX riding along. The comet will be roughly 300,000 kilometers away, so the images will have lower resolution than the close-approach ones by a factor of about two. The MCS and MARCI observations that follow the comet imaging are the ones most likely to show effects of the coma's interaction with Mars' atmosphere. These might include heating of the middle atmosphere due to dust flying into it. In response to that heating, the atmosphere should inflate, causing vertical motion within the atmosphere. And the increased amount of dust in the middle atmosphere could seed clouds that weren't there before."
[link to www.planetary.org]

Hmmm ... not sure exactly what they mean by dust could seed clouds that weren't there before. How does dust seed a cloud that isn't there?? Where did the clouds come from that they say the dust will seed? A little confusing and ambiguous, but perhaps alluding to a possible rain event (standard theory style??). In this case they got rather awkwardly out in front of McCanney, again. Don't know how else to say it.

I know recently (this year) NASA has said that water can enter Earths atmosphere in dust particles.

"Could Space Dust have Delivered Life’s Ingredients to Earth?"
Feb. 6, 2014
"For the first time, scientists have detected water molecules on the surface of interplanetary dust particles. The water forms in tiny bubbles when solar wind irradiates and damages the dust grains floating through space."

"Previous research had shown that space dust also contains organic carbon—another key ingredient for life. Taken together, these findings raise the intriguing possibility that dust trickling down from space could have seeded life’s building blocks on our own planet—and potentially elsewhere."
[link to astrobiology.nasa.gov]


FYI .... for future reference if you see no quotes then it's my words.

Last Edited by BG-Fan on 08/17/2014 08:48 PM
"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible" - Frank Zappa
K Hall (OP)

User ID: 61432111
United Kingdom
08/18/2014 03:09 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Rosetta Comet Orbiter ** And the winner is .. ( landing site )** Smell the comet !! ** Fun with Jets ** Rosetta gets great mileage ** 174 Tvolts
OP is a astro shillple

i can't wait for the op to eat his words
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18998741


There is no prize for the most tremendously buthurt sparkologist, professor, nice try anyway.

lmao
"Not until the empirical resources are exhausted, need we pass on to the dreamy realms of speculation.” Edwin Hubble
K Hall (OP)

User ID: 61432111
United Kingdom
08/18/2014 05:56 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Rosetta Comet Orbiter ** And the winner is .. ( landing site )** Smell the comet !! ** Fun with Jets ** Rosetta gets great mileage ** 174 Tvolts
I remember some guy saying "I'm not going to post any videos or ramble about EU going forward here." If you want to talk about electrickery, keep it relevant to Rosetta and comet 67P. This is not a general electrickery thread.


K
 Quoting: K Hall


And certain asteroids can become live comets as was discovered last year with the 6-tailed asteroid/comet.
 Quoting: BG-Fan


Yes, I have posted somewhere before about Iwan Williams and the safari park.

[link to astrogeo.oxfordjournals.org]

At least the vid I posted was only 13 minutes long. There is an 80 minute one that goes into great detail about EDM and Mars ... if you're interested. It's referenced in the 13 min vid I posted.
 Quoting: BG-Fan


Lol, thanks but no thanks. I have a whole series of vids on tensor calculus and Riemann surfaces if you are having trouble sleeping.

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]



From a standard theory standpoint how exactly does a comet with a fuzzy watery coma cause auroras??
 Quoting: BG-Fan


BG-Fan, are you seriously telling me that you don't think the electrical and magnetic properties of comets have been studied over the last 150 years. I think you need the kids book of comets or something. 1852 William Swan produced diatomic carbon spectra that matched William Huggin's comet coma spectra, so we have know for at least 152 years that outer comas contain ionised material, please catch up. As to under what circumstances this could or could not cause auroras that is beyond the ability of anyone here to calculate. This McCanney guy is picking up on what JPL were saying over a year and a half ago, RE auroras.

[link to www.fromquarkstoquasars.com]

[link to www.gizmag.com]

And yes according to standard theory they rely a great deal on magnetism while almost completely ignoring electrical conditions all together.
 Quoting: BG-Fan

Wow, you really need to catch up on your 19th century science.

[link to www.boundless.com (secure)]

So given that Mars basically has no magnetosphere, it makes the Martian aurora claim all the more fantastical from standard theory, doesn't it?
 Quoting: BG-Fan


No, what you need for aurora is collisions of differing gasses ( ionised and donors ) in a low gas pressure environment with ionised gasses that have de-excitation spectra in the visible range. No need for a magnetosphere. Why would it be fantastical when it is scientists using their knowledge and skills that are predicting this.

Last week Nasa announced that Siding Spring........and on and on
 Quoting: BG-Fan

 Quoting: Hydra

 Quoting: BG-Fan


Seriously why didn't you post this in Dr Astro's Siding Spring thread or better yet one of your own. I have already asked you to keep on topic, you are a regular poster so you know what is going on here, I am fine about you posting about Rosetta and 67P eletrickery stuff as I have already said. We had something like 3,400 threads on crappy comet ISON that did nothing then fell apart. Is it too much to ask to have one active thread on the most exciting and interesting space mission of the century so far, that is going to revolutionise our understanding of comets, is it really ???

K

"Not until the empirical resources are exhausted, need we pass on to the dreamy realms of speculation.” Edwin Hubble
K Hall (OP)

User ID: 61432111
United Kingdom
08/18/2014 08:09 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Rosetta Comet Orbiter ** And the winner is .. ( landing site )** Smell the comet !! ** Fun with Jets ** Rosetta gets great mileage ** 174 Tvolts
How come I see stars?

Here is the NAVCAM image from the 16th

[link to www.esa.int]

You will notice that in most of the NAVCAM images you can see stars. So how come you can see stars here but not in the Apollo pictures from the surface of the Moon? Cameras, both film and digital have a dynamic range. That is the spread of light intensity from dim to bright that they can represent in one image. The OSIRIS NAC can currently show both 67P and some background stars. At the moment 67P is rather dim. It is 3.5 times further from the Sun than the Earth is. To give you an idea of the relative sizes of the Sun as seen from Earth and 67P look at this, the Sun as seen from 67P will be closest to Jupiter in this image.

[link to www.foundalis.com]

67P is also dark. The amount of light it reflects from it's surface ( it's albedo ) is around 4%. For the moon this figure is 12%, so three times brighter. In the NAVCAM image, 67P's coma is too dark and faint to see, but if OSIRIS image data is adjusted to show the coma then the comet nucleus itself becomes totally overexposed.

[link to www.esa.int]

You can see the same effect in this video of the Moon occulting Saturn. As the astronomer adjusts his camera to show the detail on Saturn, the Moon becomes completely overexposed. Conversely, when detail of the Moon's surface is shown, Saturn would be too dim to see.



[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

K
"Not until the empirical resources are exhausted, need we pass on to the dreamy realms of speculation.” Edwin Hubble
BG-Fan

User ID: 59478464
United States
08/18/2014 10:01 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Rosetta Comet Orbiter ** And the winner is .. ( landing site )** Smell the comet !! ** Fun with Jets ** Rosetta gets great mileage ** 174 Tvolts
I remember some guy saying "I'm not going to post any videos or ramble about EU going forward here." If you want to talk about electrickery, keep it relevant to Rosetta and comet 67P. This is not a general electrickery thread.


K
 Quoting: K Hall


And certain asteroids can become live comets as was discovered last year with the 6-tailed asteroid/comet.
 Quoting: BG-Fan


Yes, I have posted somewhere before about Iwan Williams and the safari park.

[link to astrogeo.oxfordjournals.org]

At least the vid I posted was only 13 minutes long. There is an 80 minute one that goes into great detail about EDM and Mars ... if you're interested. It's referenced in the 13 min vid I posted.
 Quoting: BG-Fan


Lol, thanks but no thanks. I have a whole series of vids on tensor calculus and Riemann surfaces if you are having trouble sleeping.

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]



From a standard theory standpoint how exactly does a comet with a fuzzy watery coma cause auroras??
 Quoting: BG-Fan


BG-Fan, are you seriously telling me that you don't think the electrical and magnetic properties of comets have been studied over the last 150 years. I think you need the kids book of comets or something. 1852 William Swan produced diatomic carbon spectra that matched William Huggin's comet coma spectra, so we have know for at least 152 years that outer comas contain ionised material, please catch up. As to under what circumstances this could or could not cause auroras that is beyond the ability of anyone here to calculate. This McCanney guy is picking up on what JPL were saying over a year and a half ago, RE auroras.

[link to www.fromquarkstoquasars.com]

[link to www.gizmag.com]

And yes according to standard theory they rely a great deal on magnetism while almost completely ignoring electrical conditions all together.
 Quoting: BG-Fan

Wow, you really need to catch up on your 19th century science.

[link to www.boundless.com (secure)]

So given that Mars basically has no magnetosphere, it makes the Martian aurora claim all the more fantastical from standard theory, doesn't it?
 Quoting: BG-Fan


No, what you need for aurora is collisions of differing gasses ( ionised and donors ) in a low gas pressure environment with ionised gasses that have de-excitation spectra in the visible range. No need for a magnetosphere. Why would it be fantastical when it is scientists using their knowledge and skills that are predicting this.

Last week Nasa announced that Siding Spring........and on and on
 Quoting: BG-Fan

 Quoting: Hydra

 Quoting: BG-Fan


Seriously why didn't you post this in Dr Astro's Siding Spring thread or better yet one of your own. I have already asked you to keep on topic, you are a regular poster so you know what is going on here, I am fine about you posting about Rosetta and 67P eletrickery stuff as I have already said. We had something like 3,400 threads on crappy comet ISON that did nothing then fell apart. Is it too much to ask to have one active thread on the most exciting and interesting space mission of the century so far, that is going to revolutionise our understanding of comets, is it really ???

K
 Quoting: K Hall




You say science has no way of knowing under what circumstances their electric comet can produce auroras? That's interesting.

"But Comet Siding Spring represents an opportunity to observe a natural experiment, in which a perturbation is applied and we can see the response."

Perturbation is about all the science and calculating I see concerning the coming possible Martian auroras in this article, that and magical magnetic umbrellas -- seems they have resorted to throwing shit against the wall.

[link to science.nasa.gov]

Was going to reply to a few other of your comments, but why bother, seems Nasa's electric asteroid has turned into an electric comet, which was only a matter of time imo -- mainly because of the coming Siding Springs encounter with Mars.


Here's my bottom line on the current state of comet chasing and observing:

Rosetta/Philae Mission
-closed data policy limits public access of data for 2 years. Most exciting time for public will be the week surrounding the Philae landing. The rest of the time is basically snoozefest for the public. The overall mission is fantastic accomplishment.

Siding Spring encounter with Mars
-incoming non-periodical will buzz Mars where there are 7 NASA/ESA assets to capture the event.
-not a mission so the data should flow freely, except maybe from MAVEN
-best chance so far to see and study a non-periodical
-being a non-periodical at perhaps its most active phase (near Mars) it should be quite a show
"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible" - Frank Zappa
K Hall (OP)

User ID: 61840073
United Kingdom
08/19/2014 10:46 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Rosetta Comet Orbiter ** And the winner is .. ( landing site )** Smell the comet !! ** Fun with Jets ** Rosetta gets great mileage ** 174 Tvolts
You say science has no way of knowing under what circumstances their electric comet can produce auroras? That's interesting.
 Quoting: BG-Fan


Really ? I said that, would you care to quote me? Of course plasma scientists can work it out they are the ones predicting the auroras.

"But Comet Siding Spring represents an opportunity to observe a natural experiment, in which a perturbation is applied and we can see the response."
 Quoting: BG-Fan


Yeah big woo. Neptune and Pluto were found through perturbation. Hundreds of exo-planets have been discovered through Doppler spectroscopy ( perturbation ). Rosetta used orbital perturbation three times from Earth and once from Mars on its way to 67P, that was a successful experiment.



[link to www.youtube.com]

Perturbation is about all the science and calculating I see concerning the coming possible Martian auroras in this article, that and magical magnetic umbrellas -- seems they have resorted to throwing shit against the wall.
 Quoting: BG-Fan


Babble.

Was going to reply to a few other of your comments, but why bother, seems Nasa's electric asteroid has turned into an electric comet, which was only a matter of time imo -- mainly because of the coming Siding Springs encounter with Mars.
 Quoting: BG-Fan


Right, you should definitely do less drugs, no idea what you are on here.


Rosetta/Philae Mission
-closed data policy limits public access of data for 2 years. Most exciting time for public will be the week surrounding the Philae landing. The rest of the time is basically snoozefest for the public. The overall mission is fantastic accomplishment.
 Quoting: BG-Fan


You want the raw data? What the hell are you going to do with that 1rof1 ESA releases things for the general public pretty much every day about Rosetta. Whether you find them interesting or not IDK. The OSIRIS and NAVCAM images have been phenomenal and within a few days the resolution will have doubled again. The science briefing on arrival day was fascinating and they have continued to update science results. I have not written about everything here yet.

Siding Spring encounter with Mars
-incoming non-periodical will buzz Mars where there are 7 NASA/ESA assets to capture the event.
-not a mission so the data should flow freely, except maybe from MAVEN
-best chance so far to see and study a non-periodical
-being a non-periodical at perhaps its most active phase (near Mars) it should be quite a show
 Quoting: BG-Fan


Well there is no guarantee as to what you will see.

K
"Not until the empirical resources are exhausted, need we pass on to the dreamy realms of speculation.” Edwin Hubble
BG-Fan

User ID: 59478464
United States
08/19/2014 11:10 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Rosetta Comet Orbiter ** And the winner is .. ( landing site )** Smell the comet !! ** Fun with Jets ** Rosetta gets great mileage ** 174 Tvolts
You want the raw data? What the hell are you going to do with that 1rof1 ESA releases things for the general public pretty much every day about Rosetta. Whether you find them interesting or not IDK. The OSIRIS and NAVCAM images have been phenomenal and within a few days the resolution will have doubled again. The science briefing on arrival day was fascinating and they have continued to update science results. I have not written about everything here yet.


K
 Quoting: K Hall


Images are raw data. 'I want my Rosetta TV and data for free'....lol

Maybe as time passes you can share what you are learning from the Rosetta mission data that is being released concerning comets and our solar system?

Where can one find the science updates? ...thx!
"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible" - Frank Zappa
BG-Fan

User ID: 59478464
United States
08/19/2014 11:20 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Rosetta Comet Orbiter ** And the winner is .. ( landing site )** Smell the comet !! ** Fun with Jets ** Rosetta gets great mileage ** 174 Tvolts

Siding Spring encounter with Mars
-incoming non-periodical will buzz Mars where there are 7 NASA/ESA assets to capture the event.
-not a mission so the data should flow freely, except maybe from MAVEN
-best chance so far to see and study a non-periodical
-being a non-periodical at perhaps its most active phase (near Mars) it should be quite a show
 Quoting: BG-Fan


Well there is no guarantee as to what you will see.

K
 Quoting: BG-Fan


No guarantee but it should be a lot better than anything we've seen so far...and you do concede that this is a great opportunity for a suite of science laboratories and orbiters to observe and gather data on a non-periodical?? Right?

Last Edited by BG-Fan on 08/19/2014 12:48 PM
"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible" - Frank Zappa
BG-Fan

User ID: 59478464
United States
08/19/2014 11:59 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Rosetta Comet Orbiter ** And the winner is .. ( landing site )** Smell the comet !! ** Fun with Jets ** Rosetta gets great mileage ** 174 Tvolts
You say science has no way of knowing under what circumstances their electric comet can produce auroras? That's interesting.
 Quoting: BG-Fan


Really ? I said that, would you care to quote me?
K
 Quoting: K Hall


Another one of them finicky cat dilemma's??

You said:
"BG-Fan, are you seriously telling me that you don't think the electrical and magnetic properties of comets have been studied over the last 150 years. I think you need the kids book of comets or something. 1852 William Swan produced diatomic carbon spectra that matched William Huggin's comet coma spectra, so we have know for at least 152 years that outer comas contain ionised material, please catch up. As to under what circumstances this could or could not cause auroras that is beyond the ability of anyone here to calculate. This McCanney guy is picking up on what JPL were saying over a year and a half ago, RE auroras."


Siding Spring's coma passing through Mars' atmosphere and "sparking" magnetic umbrellas is the circumstance we were discussing..I thought...lol.

uk

....couldn't find the other 19 ESA country flags! But I am becoming an ESA fan.

Last Edited by BG-Fan on 08/19/2014 12:01 PM
"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible" - Frank Zappa
BG-Fan

User ID: 59478464
United States
08/19/2014 03:05 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Rosetta Comet Orbiter ** And the winner is .. ( landing site )** Smell the comet !! ** Fun with Jets ** Rosetta gets great mileage ** 174 Tvolts
You want the raw data? What the hell are you going to do with that 1rof1 ESA releases things for the general public pretty much every day about Rosetta. Whether you find them interesting or not IDK. The OSIRIS and NAVCAM images have been phenomenal and within a few days the resolution will have doubled again. The science briefing on arrival day was fascinating and they have continued to update science results. I have not written about everything here yet.


K
 Quoting: K Hall


Images are raw data. 'I want my Rosetta TV and data for free'....lol

Maybe as time passes you can share what you are learning from the Rosetta mission data that is being released concerning comets and our solar system?

Where can one find the science updates? ...thx!
 Quoting: BG-Fan


I just visited ESA's Rosetta Blog. Here is one exchange from the blog. Is this the "updates" source that you referred to?
thx

William Frankeberger says
15/08/2014 at 21:58
"When can we get some data? Is the comet solid rock? Was Horst Uwe Keller (Max Planck) correct, that "a comet is not really a 'dirty snowball' "? (What is the data from CONSERT?) Is the ROMAP working yet? What's the albedo of the comet? We heard earlier that the comet was sublimating two glasses of water a second; is it is or is it ain't? But I mean... what is the real data, not theory or assumption or a guess-interpretation. Is there any "interstellar dust"? What minerals are in or on the nucleus?"



emily says:
17/08/2014 at 13:53
"Hi William, we post updates here on the blog when we have them (there were some first detections of dust grains from GIADA last week, for example). Philae lands in November, so we won't have results from e.g. ROMAP & CONSERT until later."

Edit: and news here - rosetta.esa.int

Last Edited by BG-Fan on 08/19/2014 03:08 PM
"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible" - Frank Zappa
Glutomoto

User ID: 47715268
United States
08/19/2014 03:19 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Rosetta Comet Orbiter ** And the winner is .. ( landing site )** Smell the comet !! ** Fun with Jets ** Rosetta gets great mileage ** 174 Tvolts
Images are raw data. 'I want my Rosetta TV and data for free'....lol

Maybe as time passes you can share what you are learning from the Rosetta mission data that is being released concerning comets and our solar system?

Where can one find the science updates? ...thx!
 Quoting: BG-Fan


RAW data, is not an Image.

A Raw file is…

• not an image file per se (it will require special software to view, though this software is easy to get).
• typically a proprietary format (with the exception of Adobe’s DNG format that isn’t widely used yet).
• at least 8 bits per color – red, green, and blue (12-bits per X,Y location), though most DSLRs record 12-bit color (36-bits per location).
 Quoting: [link to digital-photography-school.com]


The RAW file format is digital photography's equivalent of a negative in film photography: it contains untouched, "raw" pixel information straight from the digital camera's sensor. This is especially so when dealing with data from a spacecraft.
Glutomoto

Many a doctrine is like a window pane. We see truth through it, yet it divides us from truth. K. Gibran
BG-Fan

User ID: 59478464
United States
08/19/2014 06:20 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Rosetta Comet Orbiter ** And the winner is .. ( landing site )** Smell the comet !! ** Fun with Jets ** Rosetta gets great mileage ** 174 Tvolts
Images are raw data. 'I want my Rosetta TV and data for free'....lol

Maybe as time passes you can share what you are learning from the Rosetta mission data that is being released concerning comets and our solar system?

Where can one find the science updates? ...thx!
 Quoting: BG-Fan


RAW data, is not an Image.

A Raw file is…

• not an image file per se (it will require special software to view, though this software is easy to get).
• typically a proprietary format (with the exception of Adobe’s DNG format that isn’t widely used yet).
• at least 8 bits per color – red, green, and blue (12-bits per X,Y location), though most DSLRs record 12-bit color (36-bits per location).
 Quoting: [link to digital-photography-school.com]


The RAW file format is digital photography's equivalent of a negative in film photography: it contains untouched, "raw" pixel information straight from the digital camera's sensor. This is especially so when dealing with data from a spacecraft.
 Quoting: Glutomoto


I saw where some guy on the Rosetta blog said that comets are black, black like a black t-shirt, (which I had heard last year following ISON from the guy that some belittle here who said that Halley when first observed/imaged was one of the darkest things that astronomers had ever seen). This would mean that the images we are seeing on ESA's site from Rosetta are illuminated (or some other photography term). Is that correct?

It also might mean that the lighter spots on 67P don't necessarily mean icy spots. Is that correct also?

[I was kinda using the 'images as raw data' line as a segway to the Dire Straits joke, as I figured they really weren't.]

Thx for the reply as it gave me a chance to ask these ^^ questions!
"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible" - Frank Zappa
K Hall (OP)

User ID: 61840073
United Kingdom
08/20/2014 05:24 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Rosetta Comet Orbiter ** And the winner is .. ( landing site )** Smell the comet !! ** Fun with Jets ** Rosetta gets great mileage ** 174 Tvolts
You say science has no way of knowing under what circumstances their electric comet can produce auroras? That's interesting.
 Quoting: BG-Fan


Really ? I said that, would you care to quote me?
K
 Quoting: K Hall


As to under what circumstances this could or could not cause auroras that is beyond the ability of anyone here to calculate.

 Quoting: BG-Fan


That's how trolls always expose themselves eventually. You can't help but carry your joke too far. You as supposed to be playing a character that is crazy and ignorant but you forget there is a difference between that and stupid. No one, not even the most deluded on GLP could think that all the worlds plasma physicists ( or even one ) are posting in this thread. No wonder you were posting exactly the same troll posts here as in Dr. Astro's threads.

K

Last Edited by K Hall on 08/20/2014 04:35 PM
"Not until the empirical resources are exhausted, need we pass on to the dreamy realms of speculation.” Edwin Hubble
K Hall (OP)

User ID: 61840073
United Kingdom
08/20/2014 07:07 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Rosetta Comet Orbiter ** And the winner is .. ( landing site )** Smell the comet !! ** Fun with Jets ** Rosetta gets great mileage ** 174 Tvolts
Here is an irresistible video of comet 67P rotating, it's quite hypnotic.

[link to gfycat.com]

You can use your mouse to zoom in and scroll around, you can also alter the speed.

It was produced from the red green 3d ( anaglyph ) source images from the OSIRIS NAC camera.

[link to blogs.esa.int]

Here is Dr. Brian May's stereograph from earlier.

Thread: Rosetta Comet Orbiter ** And the winner is .. ( landing site )** Smell the comet !! ** Fun with Jets ** Rosetta gets great mileage ** 174 Tvolts (Page 6)

K
"Not until the empirical resources are exhausted, need we pass on to the dreamy realms of speculation.” Edwin Hubble
BG-Fan

User ID: 59478464
United States
08/20/2014 11:51 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Rosetta Comet Orbiter ** And the winner is .. ( landing site )** Smell the comet !! ** Fun with Jets ** Rosetta gets great mileage ** 174 Tvolts
The scientific method should involve more than defending existing paradigms at all costs.

Surely a cry of burn the heretic or some appeal to the authorities is born of knee-jerk reactions to the idea that a charge separation may be at work in the universe.

"The (Rosetta) mission is exploratory, so the fact things don't yet add up is exciting and hopefully will enhance our scientific horizons, but it will only do this if we question what we see."

Bye-bye
"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible" - Frank Zappa
K Hall (OP)

User ID: 61840073
United Kingdom
08/21/2014 04:22 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Rosetta Comet Orbiter ** And the winner is .. ( landing site )** Smell the comet !! ** Fun with Jets ** Rosetta gets great mileage ** 174 Tvolts
Time to catch up with the NAVCAM pictures. Here are the high resolution versions.

From the 17th of August.

[link to www.esa.int]


From the 18th of August.

[link to www.esa.int]


From the 19th of August.

[link to www.esa.int]

The good news is that Rosetta is transitioning to a lower orbit. From Sunday, each leg of it's triangular orbit will be only 50km so the resolution of these NAVCAM images should double. Hopefully later today, or tomorrow we should see another high resolution OSIRIS image.

K
"Not until the empirical resources are exhausted, need we pass on to the dreamy realms of speculation.” Edwin Hubble
K Hall (OP)

User ID: 61840073
United Kingdom
08/21/2014 08:12 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Rosetta Comet Orbiter ** And the winner is .. ( landing site )** Smell the comet !! ** Fun with Jets ** Rosetta gets great mileage ** 174 Tvolts
"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is."

If you have kids, have a go at making a scale model of the solar system.

Here is a calculator page to help out.

[link to www.exploratorium.edu]

If you start of with an orange to represent the Sun, then around 8m away you can place a pin head to represent the Earth. Jupiter on this scale is a small pea about 42m away. Make sure you have enough space because Neptune is 1/4 km further out and the outside of the Kuiper belt 1/2 km away.

( edit, just remembered this )
No one has enough time for the tediously accurate map of the Solar system.
[link to joshworth.com]

So what about Rosetta and 67P well first of all how big is Rosetta's body, life size. It's around 3m x 2m x 2m so about the size of this shed.

[link to cdn.worldstores.co.uk (secure)]

Just to remind you what Rosetta looks like, the shed would be the gold coloured box in the middle.

[link to upload.wikimedia.org]

Rosetta has to operate in the darkness out by the orbit of Jupiter so it needs very large solar arrays to catch enough light to power it. Its "wingspan" at 32m is nearly the same as this 737 jet.

[link to glostransporthistory.visit-gloucestershire.co.uk]

The body of comet 67P is around 4km long, this gives you a pretty good idea of scale.

[link to i.imgur.com]

Now if we want to get an idea of how far away 67P is we have to change scale. Luckily there is image of everything on the internet. When 67P was first spotted people likened its shape to that of a rubber duck, so if we shrank the city sized comet 67P down to the size of this duck.

[link to www.tallshipsfestivalla.com]

Rosetta's span would be around 3/4 mm, like a tiny grain of salt. 67P is currently about 410 million km from the Earth. On our rubber duck scale that is the equivalent distance of New York to Beijing or London to Buenos Aires. But Rosetta hasn't travelled directly to 67P, it has gone the long way. Rosetta has travelled 6.4 billion km so far. On our rubber duck scale that is equivalent of the grain of salt travelling four and half times round the Earth's equator.

K

Last Edited by K Hall on 08/21/2014 12:14 PM
"Not until the empirical resources are exhausted, need we pass on to the dreamy realms of speculation.” Edwin Hubble
K Hall (OP)

User ID: 61840073
United Kingdom
08/22/2014 08:29 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Rosetta Comet Orbiter ** And the winner is .. ( landing site )** Smell the comet !! ** Fun with Jets ** Rosetta gets great mileage ** 174 Tvolts
Could 67P be three times heavier and six times denser than originally thought ? I would say yes.


Yesterday ESA released a very early, preliminary estimate of 67P's mass. You may remember Rosetta has been performing a triangular orbit of 67P ( more of that in a later post ) in order to estimate its mass. The first triangle was completed on the 17th August.

The early estimate for the mass of 67P is

10 trillion kg which is about 11 billion tons ( U.S. )
1E+13kg ( +/- 10% )

[link to blogs.esa.int]

Which is fantastic, but unfortunately there is no early estimate for density, which is quite annoying as that is significant for comet conspiracy theorists on GLP.

So my first though was to do a back of the the envelope type calculation to work out 67P's volume. We have been told that 67P is 4km long and 3.5km tall so taking it to be 2.5km wide we can come up with a number. Subtract a quarter for it being boot shaped and assume 50% of the material that would fill out an L shaped polyhedron is missing and you come up with

13 km^3 - Which is probably too low.

Then I thought I could try and make my own 67P using my kids abandoned plasticine and ESA's shape model, after all that is what the flight dynamics people have been using.

[link to blogs.esa.int]

So I made my own ( yes I know it's backwards and too fat, the final one was slimmed down )

[link to i.imgur.com]

And measured its volume ( displacement ) to represent

19 km^3 - Which is probably on the high side, my model was fat.

So finally I thought comets are basically big lumps or stuff that ablate away to leave a pebble sort of shape. So I took the shape model and pulled apart the frames in GIMP and measured carefully ( assuming it is 4km long ) and treated 67P as two ellipsoids joined by a short cylinder. This time I came up with a figure that I am most confident about.

17 km^3 - Still a little high, it doesn't take into account the concave "foot" of the duck and craters.

I think I will give the very unscientific estimate of 16 km^3 +/-5 ( maximum range based on all my estimates )

Combine this with the mass estimate and we come up with a density of

0.62 g cm-3 with a range of 0.43 to 1 g cm-3

Compare this to other bodies we know about

Earth 5.5 g cm-3
Mars 4
Vesta 3.4
Moon 3.3
[silicate rock] 3
Triton 2
Ceres 2
[ water ice ] 0.9

Seeing as we know 67P contains both silicate rock and water ice it looks probable that 67P contains something else, namely nothing. For 67P's density to be as low as 0.6 g cm-3 then it will also have to contain voids and empty spaces. These may between grains of dust or even be in the form of pockets and larger structures. This is one of the things Rosetta will be investigating over the coming year.

Finally some people on the ESA blog were excited because this mass estimate is three times the estimate that had previously been given ( 3.14E+12 kg ) Taking that as proof of 67P being a rocky electric comet. That estimate comes from this paper.

[link to www.lpi.usra.edu]

Which is a brilliant clever application of what information the authors had on 67P. They came up with an estimated density of 0.1 g cm-3, just one sixth of my estimate. To put that in perspective, the densest aerogels are five times denser, I imagine this is where the "cigarette ash" analogy comes from. I think the Philae landing team will be very happy If I am right and those authors are wrong.

K
"Not until the empirical resources are exhausted, need we pass on to the dreamy realms of speculation.” Edwin Hubble
KipKat

User ID: 25952351
Netherlands
08/22/2014 08:36 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Rosetta Comet Orbiter ** And the winner is .. ( landing site )** Smell the comet !! ** Fun with Jets ** Rosetta gets great mileage ** 174 Tvolts
Thanks for keeping the thread updated K!

Is it just me or does it look like this thing is going to split in two?
K Hall (OP)

User ID: 61840073
United Kingdom
08/23/2014 03:40 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Rosetta Comet Orbiter ** And the winner is .. ( landing site )** Smell the comet !! ** Fun with Jets ** Rosetta gets great mileage ** 174 Tvolts
Thanks for keeping the thread updated K!

Is it just me or does it look like this thing is going to split in two?
 Quoting: KipKat


No It's not just you, I think it will become two comets ( again ? ) eventually. I don't know how many passes around the sun that will take. Thursday's NAVCAM picture shows up the two body appearance of 67P .

[link to www.esa.int]

At the moment there are two ideas as to how 67P came to look like this. Firstly it is a contact binary, two comets came together at low speed and fused. Secondly it was always one comet but the neck region had more icy material that ablated away at a faster rate.

K
"Not until the empirical resources are exhausted, need we pass on to the dreamy realms of speculation.” Edwin Hubble
K Hall (OP)

User ID: 61840073
United Kingdom
08/23/2014 06:30 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Rosetta Comet Orbiter ** And the winner is .. ( landing site )** Smell the comet !! ** Fun with Jets ** Rosetta gets great mileage ** 174 Tvolts
I had a look at the volume calculation again after remeasuring the shape model. My new figures ( 20, 18.5, 17.5 ) give a slightly higher volume, but are converging on a figure near 19 km^3.

So using that figure and narrower confidence band I am going to say the density is 0.53 g cm-3 with a range of 0.4 to 0.73 cm-3, so that would rule out the possibility of 67P being solid, it must contain empty spaces in some form ( according to me only, ESA is yet to comment )

So the density predictions so far come from these French scientists. [link to www.lpi.usra.edu] Electric universe, who say that comets are rocky bodies, so I use the figures for dense asteroids and the BBC.

The BBC's science correspondent, Jonathan Amos, has written a piece which is online and on tv text saying that the density is 0.3 g cm-3, which is surprising because it would imply 67P is 33 km^3 in volume, that would imply the 4km long figure we got from ESA was wrong. I don't know if he has had a separate briefing from ESA about the density. [link to www.bbc.co.uk]

Here are the predictions so far:

Electric universe 3.2 - 7.7 g cm-3
Me 0.53 g cm-3
BBC 0.3 g cm-3
French scientists 0.109 g cm-3

K

Last Edited by K Hall on 08/23/2014 06:32 AM
"Not until the empirical resources are exhausted, need we pass on to the dreamy realms of speculation.” Edwin Hubble
K Hall (OP)

User ID: 61840073
United Kingdom
08/23/2014 09:22 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Rosetta Comet Orbiter ** And the winner is .. ( landing site )** Smell the comet !! ** Fun with Jets ** Rosetta gets great mileage ** 174 Tvolts
ESA operations have updated the information on Rosetta's recent series of manouvres. Firstly with a recap of what happened up to the 17th.

[link to blogs.esa.int]



[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

Then from the 17th until the 3rd of September.

[link to blogs.esa.int]

Yesterday Rosetta passed within 60 km of 67P's surface. The record for the longest lightning bolt on Earth is an impressive 190 km [link to www.lightningsafety.com]

K
"Not until the empirical resources are exhausted, need we pass on to the dreamy realms of speculation.” Edwin Hubble
K Hall (OP)

User ID: 62076549
United Kingdom
08/24/2014 05:59 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Rosetta Comet Orbiter ** And the winner is .. ( landing site )** Smell the comet !! ** Fun with Jets ** Rosetta gets great mileage ** 174 Tvolts
Today the ESA Rosetta team will be selecting five candidate landing sites for the Philae lander. They should announce the sites tomorrow. The final site selection comes in October for a landing in November.

The choice of site is determined firstly by the question, is it safe and technically feasible to land at the site. Other factors that will be considered are: can Rosetta stay in contact with Philae at the site, Does it have a mixture of day and night and is the surface interesting scientifically.

There is a short video from the very earliest view of candidate landing sites, they are marked with green ovals. The actual accuracy of landing is no better than 600m. Philae will be unguided and unpowered on the way down.



[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

Here is the much more complete ESA arcticle on landing site selection.

[link to blogs.esa.int]

K
"Not until the empirical resources are exhausted, need we pass on to the dreamy realms of speculation.” Edwin Hubble
K Hall (OP)

User ID: 62076549
United Kingdom
08/24/2014 07:27 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Rosetta Comet Orbiter ** And the winner is .. ( landing site )** Smell the comet !! ** Fun with Jets ** Rosetta gets great mileage ** 174 Tvolts
Here is the longer version of the landing site selection process.

[link to sci.esa.int]

With an animation of Philae landing and starting its science mission. Unfortunately there is no commentary on this vid.



[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

Here is some description to go with the above video.

The animation begins with the deployment of Philae from Rosetta at comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko in November 2014. Rosetta will come to within about 10 km of the nucleus to deploy Philae, which will take several hours to reach the surface. Because of the comet’s extremely low gravity, landing gear will absorb the small forces of landing while ice screws in the probe’s feet and a harpoon system will lock the probe to the surface. At the same time a thruster on top of the lander will push it down to counteract the impulse of the harpoon imparted in the opposite direction. Once it is anchored to the comet, the lander will begin its primary science mission, based on its 64-hour initial battery lifetime. The animation then shows five of Philae’s 10 instruments in action: CIVA, ROLIS, SD2, MUPUS and APXS.

K

Last Edited by K Hall on 08/24/2014 07:30 AM
"Not until the empirical resources are exhausted, need we pass on to the dreamy realms of speculation.” Edwin Hubble
K Hall (OP)

User ID: 62127566
United Kingdom
08/25/2014 05:45 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Rosetta Comet Orbiter ** And the winner is .. ( landing site )** Smell the comet !! ** Fun with Jets ** Rosetta gets great mileage ** 174 Tvolts
Here is the NAVCAM picture from the 22nd

[link to www.esa.int]

All the instruments on Rosetta, like NAVCAM, are competing with each other for electrical power and bandwidth to send their data back to ESA. Rosetta has a power budget of around 800 watts to power everything on board, that's not enough to power a hairdryer.

Communication rates back to ESA vary between 10 Kbit/s and 22 Kbit/s , but communication is often not possible. If you started using the internet in the late 90s that is around the same speed as your dial up modem used to be.

[link to www.esa.int]

K
"Not until the empirical resources are exhausted, need we pass on to the dreamy realms of speculation.” Edwin Hubble
K Hall (OP)

User ID: 62170789
United Kingdom
08/26/2014 06:09 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Rosetta Comet Orbiter ** And the winner is .. ( landing site )** Smell the comet !! ** Fun with Jets ** Rosetta gets great mileage ** 174 Tvolts
Well the five candidate landing sites have been chosen from ten possible sites. Here they are on a map of the comet.

[link to www.esa.int]

Three of the sites are on the head of the duck. One interesting site is site B. That is the "engine" or "crater of doom" or "entrance to the interior" depending on which idea you like. Here is picture showing crater B in its most doomy look, on the right in this image.

[link to www.esa.int]

We have discussed this deep crater before and why shadows on 67P easily make crater floors disappear.

Here is the in depth analysis of landing site selection with some more nice images.

[link to www.esa.int]

The landing site selection has been more problematic than they imagined when Rosetta was launched due to 67P's complex shape, rotation and differences in expected surface composition.

K
"Not until the empirical resources are exhausted, need we pass on to the dreamy realms of speculation.” Edwin Hubble
TheWatcher-Anonymous Hero

User ID: 13678637
United Kingdom
08/26/2014 07:14 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Rosetta Comet Orbiter ** And the winner is .. ( landing site )** Smell the comet !! ** Fun with Jets ** Rosetta gets great mileage ** 174 Tvolts
Thanks for the updates.
Going to be a long wait until November.

Are they landing on a solid surface?

News








We're dropping truth bombs like it's the end of days!