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Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.

 
Aravoth
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08/06/2014 02:37 PM
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Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Guys listen, this shit is scary. I get it, ok? I do. The human population of this world has always been kept in check by viruses, or some other method of sheer destruction. The Flu, Polio, Smallpox, you name it, these things have a purpose in nature. They keep populations under control.

Since the dawn of the industrial age we began to outsmart them all. We Vaccinate against the flu, we all but eradicated Polio in this country. We had beaten our enemies into near submission, and as a result, the worlds population has exploded. But our Genius is beginning to catch up with us. Anti-biotic resistant bacteria is on the rise, the flu is devising new ways to counter attack our defenses. And Ebola, well, lets just say it's doing what all viruses do. It's trying to survive, it's trying to find a way to use our own immune system against us. Think about this for a minute...

The Flu infects you, your body goes into defensive mode, realizing that it must expel the invader. So your own body fills your lungs with mucus and fluid, which forces you to cough. This is the real genius of the flu. It actually depends on your immune response to spread itself. And it doesn't have much time to do it either. Because your body begins to increase it's own temperature. Yes, having a fever is an immune response, not caused by the flu, rather it is literally your body attempting to make you so hot that the protein coat protecting the flu virus breaks down, allowing your white cells to attack.

This is what all viruses do. ALL of them. They find a way to exploit your natural immune responses to propagate themselves.

Ebola.... once just a hemorrhagic fever on steroids, now is a bona-fide menace. I work in a hospital laboratory at a major hospital in a major Metro Area. My wife works clinical micro for the same company. I'm very well versed in just about everything a STAT lab in a hospital can, and does do. My wife on the other hand, actually majored in micro, with emphasis on virology. So I wanted you all to know a few things about this outbreak that became apparent to us as it began to spread.

#1. Something has changed. This virus used to have a much shorter incubation period. And it would kill within a week. The mortality rate was much higher once upon a time. However, this is not the case anymore. Based on the sheer number of infected, the virus it seems, may have found a way to transmit itself easier. Typically when a virus "evolves" it gains in one area, while giving ground in another. It makes sense to me that Ebola gave up alot of it's lethality, for the ability to spread itself easier, and incubate much, much longer.

#2. Africa is a mess. There is no way to tell how many are infected. Once upon a time Ebola would strike a village and wipe everyone out, and that was it. It would kill so fast that it could not spread out of the hotzone. Because of what I said above that is not the case anymore. On a continent where borders still mean very little to the native population, it is a scary mix. Even if the CDC or the WHO wanted to get accurate numbers, it would be hopeless due to the unknown number or people that distrust western medicine, refuse to get help, or wander around from village to village. The infrastructure simply does not have the same capabilities we do in the west.

#3. Even in the United States, out of all the various hospitals I have worked at, there is no hope of containing anything like this. One of the largest hospitals I worked at only had two reverse flow isolation rooms. TWO, let that sink in for a minute. If this thing goes as bad as some think it will, we are, quite literally, screwed. Patients only show up to the hospital when they go symptomatic. So by the time they get there, they've already infected their entire family, their work group, and anyone they got within a few feet of on the way to the hospital. When they get there the ER nurses would treat it either like Flu, or Sepsis. But the whole time the patient is infecting all of them. And all of them, in turn, begin to infect everyone else in the exact same way. If this is as virulent as the WHO thinks it might be, by the time people realize what is going on, there will be more sick people than there would be beds available at every hospital in the US combined.

#4. Testing blood for anything is not as simple as looking under a microscope. And hospital labs are not set up for exotic virology. We run basic Chemistries, Cardiac enzymes, blood counts, sed rates, drug levels, bacterial cultures, all the basic hands on shit. The kind of things that old people usually present for, blood loss, infection, and cardiac events. Anything exotic gets sent out. Sometimes to the State lab, most of the time specimens get sent across the country to Quest Diagnostics, or to other organizations actually set up for it. Your average city hospital is pitifully, laughably, not ready for anything of this nature. Sure, running a CBC can tell if you are dehydrated, it can tell of you are loosing blood, it can tell if you are fighting "something" off. It just can't tell what. A sed rate can determine if you have excess inflammation, but it can't tell you why. A Lactic Acid level can indicate Sepsis, but it can't tell you from what. The point is, at the early stages of an outbreak, people will get treated for run of the mill things. Because nothing a hospital can test immediately will be able to tell anyone that you are carrying the most deadly hemorrhagic fever currently known. Honestly, if a person came into a busy ER with a fever, the triage nurse would put them in the waiting room until a non urgent room opened up in the back. They simply have no way to know who is carrying what.

I'm not saying we're all gonna die. This thing could fizzle out. And everything could be fine. What I am trying to illustrate here is that just because a lab exists in a hospital, does not mean that it can tell you everything. There are triage algorithms that work for everyday field medicine, but nothing for an outbreak. Thinking that living in a developed nation will curb the spread is ridiculous. If anything, it makes it worse. Our commute, our workplaces, our homes, our methods of entertainment, all of those things that we love so much about living in the the west, are the things that viruses depend on to spread.

If this virus truly has found a way to transmit easier, the healthcare system would be completely overloaded with something they simply can not handle.

Anyway, I'm not trying to scare anyone, I just hope people can be realistic about the capabilities of hospital containment, hospital laboratory testing, and the fact that the healthcare system, in ANY country, could not handle a massive outbreak.

So don't expect miracles from front line hospital staff, we don't have the tools, and we certainly do not have the manpower. Ask anyone in the medical field how much overtime they could work if they felt like it, don't even get me started on how thinly stretched people in the industry are. Though I suppose if this does turn into something, that will become apparent very, very fast.

Good luck, don't freak out, wash your hands, be prepared, hug your kids.

That is all.
T-Man

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08/06/2014 02:38 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
ebola will do nothing.
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 02:43 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Guys listen, this shit is scary. I get it, ok? I do. The human population of this world has always been kept in check by viruses, or some other method of sheer destruction. The Flu, Polio, Smallpox, you name it, these things have a purpose in nature. They keep populations under control.

Since the dawn of the industrial age we began to outsmart them all. We Vaccinate against the flu, we all but eradicated Polio in this country. We had beaten our enemies into near submission, and as a result, the worlds population has exploded. But our Genius is beginning to catch up with us. Anti-biotic resistant bacteria is on the rise, the flu is devising new ways to counter attack our defenses. And Ebola, well, lets just say it's doing what all viruses do. It's trying to survive, it's trying to find a way to use our own immune system against us. Think about this for a minute...

The Flu infects you, your body goes into defensive mode, realizing that it must expel the invader. So your own body fills your lungs with mucus and fluid, which forces you to cough. This is the real genius of the flu. It actually depends on your immune response to spread itself. And it doesn't have much time to do it either. Because your body begins to increase it's own temperature. Yes, having a fever is an immune response, not caused by the flu, rather it is literally your body attempting to make you so hot that the protein coat protecting the flu virus breaks down, allowing your white cells to attack.

This is what all viruses do. ALL of them. They find a way to exploit your natural immune responses to propagate themselves.

Ebola.... once just a hemorrhagic fever on steroids, now is a bona-fide menace. I work in a hospital laboratory at a major hospital in a major Metro Area. My wife works clinical micro for the same company. I'm very well versed in just about everything a STAT lab in a hospital can, and does do. My wife on the other hand, actually majored in micro, with emphasis on virology. So I wanted you all to know a few things about this outbreak that became apparent to us as it began to spread.

#1. Something has changed. This virus used to have a much shorter incubation period. And it would kill within a week. The mortality rate was much higher once upon a time. However, this is not the case anymore. Based on the sheer number of infected, the virus it seems, may have found a way to transmit itself easier. Typically when a virus "evolves" it gains in one area, while giving ground in another. It makes sense to me that Ebola gave up alot of it's lethality, for the ability to spread itself easier, and incubate much, much longer.

#2. Africa is a mess. There is no way to tell how many are infected. Once upon a time Ebola would strike a village and wipe everyone out, and that was it. It would kill so fast that it could not spread out of the hotzone. Because of what I said above that is not the case anymore. On a continent where borders still mean very little to the native population, it is a scary mix. Even if the CDC or the WHO wanted to get accurate numbers, it would be hopeless due to the unknown number or people that distrust western medicine, refuse to get help, or wander around from village to village. The infrastructure simply does not have the same capabilities we do in the west.

#3. Even in the United States, out of all the various hospitals I have worked at, there is no hope of containing anything like this. One of the largest hospitals I worked at only had two reverse flow isolation rooms. TWO, let that sink in for a minute. If this thing goes as bad as some think it will, we are, quite literally, screwed. Patients only show up to the hospital when they go symptomatic. So by the time they get there, they've already infected their entire family, their work group, and anyone they got within a few feet of on the way to the hospital. When they get there the ER nurses would treat it either like Flu, or Sepsis. But the whole time the patient is infecting all of them. And all of them, in turn, begin to infect everyone else in the exact same way. If this is as virulent as the WHO thinks it might be, by the time people realize what is going on, there will be more sick people than there would be beds available at every hospital in the US combined.

#4. Testing blood for anything is not as simple as looking under a microscope. And hospital labs are not set up for exotic virology. We run basic Chemistries, Cardiac enzymes, blood counts, sed rates, drug levels, bacterial cultures, all the basic hands on shit. The kind of things that old people usually present for, blood loss, infection, and cardiac events. Anything exotic gets sent out. Sometimes to the State lab, most of the time specimens get sent across the country to Quest Diagnostics, or to other organizations actually set up for it. Your average city hospital is pitifully, laughably, not ready for anything of this nature. Sure, running a CBC can tell if you are dehydrated, it can tell of you are loosing blood, it can tell if you are fighting "something" off. It just can't tell what. A sed rate can determine if you have excess inflammation, but it can't tell you why. A Lactic Acid level can indicate Sepsis, but it can't tell you from what. The point is, at the early stages of an outbreak, people will get treated for run of the mill things. Because nothing a hospital can test immediately will be able to tell anyone that you are carrying the most deadly hemorrhagic fever currently known. Honestly, if a person came into a busy ER with a fever, the triage nurse would put them in the waiting room until a non urgent room opened up in the back. They simply have no way to know who is carrying what.

I'm not saying we're all gonna die. This thing could fizzle out. And everything could be fine. What I am trying to illustrate here is that just because a lab exists in a hospital, does not mean that it can tell you everything. There are triage algorithms that work for everyday field medicine, but nothing for an outbreak. Thinking that living in a developed nation will curb the spread is ridiculous. If anything, it makes it worse. Our commute, our workplaces, our homes, our methods of entertainment, all of those things that we love so much about living in the the west, are the things that viruses depend on to spread.

If this virus truly has found a way to transmit easier, the healthcare system would be completely overloaded with something they simply can not handle.

Anyway, I'm not trying to scare anyone, I just hope people can be realistic about the capabilities of hospital containment, hospital laboratory testing, and the fact that the healthcare system, in ANY country, could not handle a massive outbreak.

So don't expect miracles from front line hospital staff, we don't have the tools, and we certainly do not have the manpower. Ask anyone in the medical field how much overtime they could work if they felt like it, don't even get me started on how thinly stretched people in the industry are. Though I suppose if this does turn into something, that will become apparent very, very fast.

Good luck, don't freak out, wash your hands, be prepared, hug your kids.

That is all.
 Quoting: Aravoth 35282601



I don't fear because we all have Obamacare! Once more the Congress can overrule any natural biological condition or event. Just look what they did with Gay Marriage! And the Supreme Court will hold up the ruling!!

With Obamacare and the court system, we can defeat biology!
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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United States
08/06/2014 02:54 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.



I don't fear because we all have Obamacare! Once more the Congress can overrule any natural biological condition or event. Just look what they did with Gay Marriage! And the Supreme Court will hold up the ruling!!

With Obamacare and the court system, we can defeat biology!


Excess of episodic healthcare in our clinics and hospitals is actually another reason why an outbreak would spread much faster. Every one and there mother with a stuffy nose just walking right into it without realizing it.
18328

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08/06/2014 02:55 PM

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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Well said and thought out.
Dark Shadow

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08/06/2014 02:58 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Guys listen, this shit is scary. I get it, ok? I do. The human population of this world has always been kept in check by viruses, or some other method of sheer destruction. The Flu, Polio, Smallpox, you name it, these things have a purpose in nature. They keep populations under control.

Since the dawn of the industrial age we began to outsmart them all. We Vaccinate against the flu, we all but eradicated Polio in this country. We had beaten our enemies into near submission, and as a result, the worlds population has exploded. But our Genius is beginning to catch up with us. Anti-biotic resistant bacteria is on the rise, the flu is devising new ways to counter attack our defenses. And Ebola, well, lets just say it's doing what all viruses do. It's trying to survive, it's trying to find a way to use our own immune system against us. Think about this for a minute...

The Flu infects you, your body goes into defensive mode, realizing that it must expel the invader. So your own body fills your lungs with mucus and fluid, which forces you to cough. This is the real genius of the flu. It actually depends on your immune response to spread itself. And it doesn't have much time to do it either. Because your body begins to increase it's own temperature. Yes, having a fever is an immune response, not caused by the flu, rather it is literally your body attempting to make you so hot that the protein coat protecting the flu virus breaks down, allowing your white cells to attack.

This is what all viruses do. ALL of them. They find a way to exploit your natural immune responses to propagate themselves.

Ebola.... once just a hemorrhagic fever on steroids, now is a bona-fide menace. I work in a hospital laboratory at a major hospital in a major Metro Area. My wife works clinical micro for the same company. I'm very well versed in just about everything a STAT lab in a hospital can, and does do. My wife on the other hand, actually majored in micro, with emphasis on virology. So I wanted you all to know a few things about this outbreak that became apparent to us as it began to spread.

#1. Something has changed. This virus used to have a much shorter incubation period. And it would kill within a week. The mortality rate was much higher once upon a time. However, this is not the case anymore. Based on the sheer number of infected, the virus it seems, may have found a way to transmit itself easier. Typically when a virus "evolves" it gains in one area, while giving ground in another. It makes sense to me that Ebola gave up alot of it's lethality, for the ability to spread itself easier, and incubate much, much longer.

#2. Africa is a mess. There is no way to tell how many are infected. Once upon a time Ebola would strike a village and wipe everyone out, and that was it. It would kill so fast that it could not spread out of the hotzone. Because of what I said above that is not the case anymore. On a continent where borders still mean very little to the native population, it is a scary mix. Even if the CDC or the WHO wanted to get accurate numbers, it would be hopeless due to the unknown number or people that distrust western medicine, refuse to get help, or wander around from village to village. The infrastructure simply does not have the same capabilities we do in the west.

#3. Even in the United States, out of all the various hospitals I have worked at, there is no hope of containing anything like this. One of the largest hospitals I worked at only had two reverse flow isolation rooms. TWO, let that sink in for a minute. If this thing goes as bad as some think it will, we are, quite literally, screwed. Patients only show up to the hospital when they go symptomatic. So by the time they get there, they've already infected their entire family, their work group, and anyone they got within a few feet of on the way to the hospital. When they get there the ER nurses would treat it either like Flu, or Sepsis. But the whole time the patient is infecting all of them. And all of them, in turn, begin to infect everyone else in the exact same way. If this is as virulent as the WHO thinks it might be, by the time people realize what is going on, there will be more sick people than there would be beds available at every hospital in the US combined.

#4. Testing blood for anything is not as simple as looking under a microscope. And hospital labs are not set up for exotic virology. We run basic Chemistries, Cardiac enzymes, blood counts, sed rates, drug levels, bacterial cultures, all the basic hands on shit. The kind of things that old people usually present for, blood loss, infection, and cardiac events. Anything exotic gets sent out. Sometimes to the State lab, most of the time specimens get sent across the country to Quest Diagnostics, or to other organizations actually set up for it. Your average city hospital is pitifully, laughably, not ready for anything of this nature. Sure, running a CBC can tell if you are dehydrated, it can tell of you are loosing blood, it can tell if you are fighting "something" off. It just can't tell what. A sed rate can determine if you have excess inflammation, but it can't tell you why. A Lactic Acid level can indicate Sepsis, but it can't tell you from what. The point is, at the early stages of an outbreak, people will get treated for run of the mill things. Because nothing a hospital can test immediately will be able to tell anyone that you are carrying the most deadly hemorrhagic fever currently known. Honestly, if a person came into a busy ER with a fever, the triage nurse would put them in the waiting room until a non urgent room opened up in the back. They simply have no way to know who is carrying what.

I'm not saying we're all gonna die. This thing could fizzle out. And everything could be fine. What I am trying to illustrate here is that just because a lab exists in a hospital, does not mean that it can tell you everything. There are triage algorithms that work for everyday field medicine, but nothing for an outbreak. Thinking that living in a developed nation will curb the spread is ridiculous. If anything, it makes it worse. Our commute, our workplaces, our homes, our methods of entertainment, all of those things that we love so much about living in the the west, are the things that viruses depend on to spread.

If this virus truly has found a way to transmit easier, the healthcare system would be completely overloaded with something they simply can not handle.

Anyway, I'm not trying to scare anyone, I just hope people can be realistic about the capabilities of hospital containment, hospital laboratory testing, and the fact that the healthcare system, in ANY country, could not handle a massive outbreak.

So don't expect miracles from front line hospital staff, we don't have the tools, and we certainly do not have the manpower. Ask anyone in the medical field how much overtime they could work if they felt like it, don't even get me started on how thinly stretched people in the industry are. Though I suppose if this does turn into something, that will become apparent very, very fast.

Good luck, don't freak out, wash your hands, be prepared, hug your kids.

That is all.
 Quoting: Aravoth 35282601

You might want to listen to OP. He is not selling doom here, he is simply stating the facts about our health care system and its limitations. My wife is a Nurse practitioner and has the same assessment of the lack of proper treatment centers for a wide spread viral epidemic. 5 stars OP.
cheers
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 03:07 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
What has had me interested is that fact this has made the leap from forested to urban environment and is currently running outside of season.. Like the plague has a season you normally find ebola outbreaks within it's seasons (most typically dry conditions at the end of rainy season) with it seemingly breaking out of these known constraints the question is does it have the legs for further adaptations. I really hope not, but it worth noting each time it breaks free of known constraints..
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 03:10 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Guys listen, this shit is scary. I get it, ok? I do. The human population of this world has always been kept in check by viruses, or some other method of sheer destruction. The Flu, Polio, Smallpox, you name it, these things have a purpose in nature. They keep populations under control.

Since the dawn of the industrial age we began to outsmart them all. We Vaccinate against the flu, we all but eradicated Polio in this country. We had beaten our enemies into near submission, and as a result, the worlds population has exploded. But our Genius is beginning to catch up with us. Anti-biotic resistant bacteria is on the rise, the flu is devising new ways to counter attack our defenses. And Ebola, well, lets just say it's doing what all viruses do. It's trying to survive, it's trying to find a way to use our own immune system against us. Think about this for a minute...

The Flu infects you, your body goes into defensive mode, realizing that it must expel the invader. So your own body fills your lungs with mucus and fluid, which forces you to cough. This is the real genius of the flu. It actually depends on your immune response to spread itself. And it doesn't have much time to do it either. Because your body begins to increase it's own temperature. Yes, having a fever is an immune response, not caused by the flu, rather it is literally your body attempting to make you so hot that the protein coat protecting the flu virus breaks down, allowing your white cells to attack.

This is what all viruses do. ALL of them. They find a way to exploit your natural immune responses to propagate themselves.

Ebola.... once just a hemorrhagic fever on steroids, now is a bona-fide menace. I work in a hospital laboratory at a major hospital in a major Metro Area. My wife works clinical micro for the same company. I'm very well versed in just about everything a STAT lab in a hospital can, and does do. My wife on the other hand, actually majored in micro, with emphasis on virology. So I wanted you all to know a few things about this outbreak that became apparent to us as it began to spread.

#1. Something has changed. This virus used to have a much shorter incubation period. And it would kill within a week. The mortality rate was much higher once upon a time. However, this is not the case anymore. Based on the sheer number of infected, the virus it seems, may have found a way to transmit itself easier. Typically when a virus "evolves" it gains in one area, while giving ground in another. It makes sense to me that Ebola gave up alot of it's lethality, for the ability to spread itself easier, and incubate much, much longer.

#2. Africa is a mess. There is no way to tell how many are infected. Once upon a time Ebola would strike a village and wipe everyone out, and that was it. It would kill so fast that it could not spread out of the hotzone. Because of what I said above that is not the case anymore. On a continent where borders still mean very little to the native population, it is a scary mix. Even if the CDC or the WHO wanted to get accurate numbers, it would be hopeless due to the unknown number or people that distrust western medicine, refuse to get help, or wander around from village to village. The infrastructure simply does not have the same capabilities we do in the west.

#3. Even in the United States, out of all the various hospitals I have worked at, there is no hope of containing anything like this. One of the largest hospitals I worked at only had two reverse flow isolation rooms. TWO, let that sink in for a minute. If this thing goes as bad as some think it will, we are, quite literally, screwed. Patients only show up to the hospital when they go symptomatic. So by the time they get there, they've already infected their entire family, their work group, and anyone they got within a few feet of on the way to the hospital. When they get there the ER nurses would treat it either like Flu, or Sepsis. But the whole time the patient is infecting all of them. And all of them, in turn, begin to infect everyone else in the exact same way. If this is as virulent as the WHO thinks it might be, by the time people realize what is going on, there will be more sick people than there would be beds available at every hospital in the US combined.

#4. Testing blood for anything is not as simple as looking under a microscope. And hospital labs are not set up for exotic virology. We run basic Chemistries, Cardiac enzymes, blood counts, sed rates, drug levels, bacterial cultures, all the basic hands on shit. The kind of things that old people usually present for, blood loss, infection, and cardiac events. Anything exotic gets sent out. Sometimes to the State lab, most of the time specimens get sent across the country to Quest Diagnostics, or to other organizations actually set up for it. Your average city hospital is pitifully, laughably, not ready for anything of this nature. Sure, running a CBC can tell if you are dehydrated, it can tell of you are loosing blood, it can tell if you are fighting "something" off. It just can't tell what. A sed rate can determine if you have excess inflammation, but it can't tell you why. A Lactic Acid level can indicate Sepsis, but it can't tell you from what. The point is, at the early stages of an outbreak, people will get treated for run of the mill things. Because nothing a hospital can test immediately will be able to tell anyone that you are carrying the most deadly hemorrhagic fever currently known. Honestly, if a person came into a busy ER with a fever, the triage nurse would put them in the waiting room until a non urgent room opened up in the back. They simply have no way to know who is carrying what.

I'm not saying we're all gonna die. This thing could fizzle out. And everything could be fine. What I am trying to illustrate here is that just because a lab exists in a hospital, does not mean that it can tell you everything. There are triage algorithms that work for everyday field medicine, but nothing for an outbreak. Thinking that living in a developed nation will curb the spread is ridiculous. If anything, it makes it worse. Our commute, our workplaces, our homes, our methods of entertainment, all of those things that we love so much about living in the the west, are the things that viruses depend on to spread.

If this virus truly has found a way to transmit easier, the healthcare system would be completely overloaded with something they simply can not handle.

Anyway, I'm not trying to scare anyone, I just hope people can be realistic about the capabilities of hospital containment, hospital laboratory testing, and the fact that the healthcare system, in ANY country, could not handle a massive outbreak.

So don't expect miracles from front line hospital staff, we don't have the tools, and we certainly do not have the manpower. Ask anyone in the medical field how much overtime they could work if they felt like it, don't even get me started on how thinly stretched people in the industry are. Though I suppose if this does turn into something, that will become apparent very, very fast.

Good luck, don't freak out, wash your hands, be prepared, hug your kids.

That is all.
 Quoting: Aravoth 35282601


I copied your post into the thread below so more will see it and you can get more feedback:

Thread: Theoretical Ebola spread and death based on 1.86 infection rate monthly. (Page 5)
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/06/2014 03:10 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
What has had me interested is that fact this has made the leap from forested to urban environment and is currently running outside of season.. Like the plague has a season you normally find ebola outbreaks within it's seasons (most typically dry conditions at the end of rainy season) with it seemingly breaking out of these known constraints the question is does it have the legs for further adaptations. I really hope not, but it worth noting each time it breaks free of known constraints..
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 61272265


Yes, exactly. And the fact that now it's nested in the human population means that it's evolution is going to be specifically targeted to spread within that population. At this point any adaptation, no matter how small, should be noted.
ABN.
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08/06/2014 03:11 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Has everything to do with this thread.

Thread: As forest are cut down rare diseases spread because the ancient forest held them within.
Revbo™

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08/06/2014 03:23 PM

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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Thanks for taking the time to put that together, OP.

What's your gut tell you is gonna happen?

Last Edited by Revbo™ on 08/06/2014 03:24 PM
"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security." -The Declaration of Independence

8-12 Trump
Aravoth (OP)
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08/06/2014 03:28 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Thanks for taking the time to put that together, OP.
 Quoting: Revbo™


Your welcome, hopefully it can help people understand the situation from the eyes of the front line hospital staff. We really would do everything we could to help, sadly, we just don't know enough containing things like this. My fear is that in our efforts to help our patients, if an outbreak occurred here, our efforts, which are all based loosely on triage, would not only fall short, but actually cause it spread.
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 03:34 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
My fear is that in our efforts to help our patients, if an outbreak occurred here, our efforts, which are all based loosely on triage, would not only fall short, but actually cause it spread.
 Quoting: Aravoth 35282601


How?

vodka5
Blitz the storm-striker

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08/06/2014 03:38 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
maybe op needs to get a clue about the first strain of ebola to been found on this planet was admited later on to be man made research on Bovine Spongiform encelophatis...Mad cow disease.

The WHO and the CDC are statistic gathering services and we are just test subjects.

Ebola zaire strain which was first to go out of control after the infamous Philadelphia hotel incident with what was called the "legionaire disease"..which turned out to be of the SAME PROTEIN CHAIN!!!

Also Hiv and sars are based of the same protein chain as of Ebola...

This Oil based sickness is coming and they planned it since 2001!
To live is to believe in the power of dreams! To dream is to believe in the power of love! To love is to Know the truth!
The Desire to Be fuel the belief that you Are which ignite the Will to Become which bring back forth the desire to be...
Let it be-come you! It means Stop seeking your higher self! It is seeking you! Stand still in your mind to calm the waters of your mind and then it shall find you, so you can ride those waves together!
your true self lies somewhere between your heart and your consciousness. It is called the heart consciousness,which is the creator, which is you!
The heart create the emotions and our mind evoke its purpose, from which we dream the life we live in order to imagine the nature of reality and finally remember love!

The highest Purpose of our mind is the ability to Forget! Go on and Forgive yourself!
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Be authentic, nobody else can do it for you!
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 03:40 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
bsflag
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08/06/2014 03:45 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
If there was a major outbreak people wouldnt get to the hospital and thee wouldnt be any need to do lab tests.
It would be assumed everyone had it and would be required to stay indoors.
There would be a military curfew,anyone showing any of the symptoms would be assumed to have ebola and treated as such regardless.
There wouldnt be any lab tests,it would be undoable and pointless.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/06/2014 03:51 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
My fear is that in our efforts to help our patients, if an outbreak occurred here, our efforts, which are all based loosely on triage, would not only fall short, but actually cause it spread.
 Quoting: Aravoth 35282601


How?

vodka5
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 61056835


Because initially we wouldn't isolate anyone. Like I said in the op. Someone with a headache and fever is not an emergency. Most of time a person showing symptoms would be hanging out in the waiting room with everyone else until a room opened up.

I remember once when a patient came to the hospital during the swine flu outbreak, when it first began. We put the patient in the ER initially. The rooms have these yellow lines on the floor, and we were all told not to cross it. As if a piece of yellow tape on the floor is going to stop a virus from floating right over it.

The ER in my hospital is new. individual rooms, and heavy glass doors. But in a lot of other hospitals, the only thing separating an infected patient from someone else is a curtain. Literally, just a curtain.

Even on the hospital floors, alot of places still use duel occupancy patient rooms. So what happens if you have a 300 bed hospital, but almost every room is duel occupancy? I'll tell you, either everyones roommate gets infected, or all those duel occupancy rooms become single occupancy, and the amount of people that the hospital can handle just got halved.

We deal with heart attacks, trauma, dehydration, strokes, and sniffles. Most hospitals have no reason, whatsoever, to invest in serious isolation techniques. Look what happens when patients start getting c-diff. All they do is close the door, and pull out an "isolation cart". Which only has a thin tissue paper like garment and some gloves. this works for c-diff, but a viral outbrak is not c-diff

Sure, we put HEPA filters on when going into a reverse isolation room for a patient with TB or something, but again, there are only a finite number of those rooms.

And again, all of this is based on traditional field triage methods. putting people in groups, and bringing the most serious cases in first. For a hospital, that means respiratory distress, and chest pain, period. I you are at that stage with Ebola, you won't even make it into the hospital. You would come in with a headache, fever, or sore throat, none of which are an emergency.
Vaellene

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08/06/2014 03:52 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
whateverbsflag
Vic-chick13

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08/06/2014 03:53 PM

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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Thanks very much for the info. 5* hf
Tinfoil Couture

User ID: 58863116
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08/06/2014 03:53 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
maybe op needs to get a clue about the first strain of ebola to been found on this planet was admited later on to be man made research on Bovine Spongiform encelophatis...Mad cow disease.

The WHO and the CDC are statistic gathering services and we are just test subjects.

Ebola zaire strain which was first to go out of control after the infamous Philadelphia hotel incident with what was called the "legionaire disease"..which turned out to be of the SAME PROTEIN CHAIN!!!

Also Hiv and sars are based of the same protein chain as of Ebola...

This Oil based sickness is coming and they planned it since 2001!
 Quoting: Blitz the storm-striker


That sounds bezerk.
"Don't tell me truth hurts, little girl, 'cause it hurts like hell. --David Bowie
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 03:55 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Thanks very much for the info. 5* hf
 Quoting: Vic-chick13


clappa
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Top Hat

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08/06/2014 03:55 PM

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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.

IMAGE ( [link to i61.tinypic.com] )
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 03:56 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
What has had me interested is that fact this has made the leap from forested to urban environment and is currently running outside of season.. Like the plague has a season you normally find ebola outbreaks within it's seasons (most typically dry conditions at the end of rainy season) with it seemingly breaking out of these known constraints the question is does it have the legs for further adaptations. I really hope not, but it worth noting each time it breaks free of known constraints..
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 61272265


hesright
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08/06/2014 03:56 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Great Info OP. Thanks for the post, stuff like this is what brings me to GLP.
Tinfoil Couture

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08/06/2014 03:56 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
This is a good thread, OP.
"Don't tell me truth hurts, little girl, 'cause it hurts like hell. --David Bowie
SteamrolledGobias

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08/06/2014 03:56 PM

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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
alright well how many more months should we expect to wait until people start dropping dead in the US?

cause there's way too many threads on this shit when it could easily pass just like swine flu, bird flu, ISON, etc

Last Edited by SteamrolledGobias on 08/06/2014 03:56 PM
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 04:00 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
OP, you are absolutely right. Add to all that the piss-poor hand hygiene practiced in most US hospitals, and Ebola will thrive like crazy. Nurses and docs go from one pt. to another and don't bother to wash their hands, or even use a hand sanitizer.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 35282601
United States
08/06/2014 04:00 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
If there was a major outbreak people wouldnt get to the hospital and thee wouldnt be any need to do lab tests.
It would be assumed everyone had it and would be required to stay indoors.
There would be a military curfew,anyone showing any of the symptoms would be assumed to have ebola and treated as such regardless.
There wouldnt be any lab tests,it would be undoable and pointless.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60978912


With an incubation period this long no one would even know that the outbreak started. Thats why I'm saying initially it would be extremely difficult to know there is an outbreak, let alone contain it.

Look, this entire ebola outbreak could be bullshit, all of it.

But the sheer lack of ability for any western healthcare system to contain an outbreak is not bullshit. Viruses literally evolve to use our own immune responses to multiply, if it gets to a place where immuno compromised people are already struggling, it's like a buffet.
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 04:01 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
Epic thread OP.

Question: If this strain of the virus has evolved with a lessor mortality rate, does the weakened condition of the host present a "target rich" environment that more deadly strains of any number of other viri?

If yes, doesn't it mean even the common cold could be deadly to the recovering infected?i
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 61056835
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08/06/2014 04:04 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
My fear is that in our efforts to help our patients, if an outbreak occurred here, our efforts, which are all based loosely on triage, would not only fall short, but actually cause it spread.
 Quoting: Aravoth 35282601


How?

vodka5
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 61056835


Because initially we wouldn't isolate anyone. Like I said in the op. Someone with a headache and fever is not an emergency. Most of time a person showing symptoms would be hanging out in the waiting room with everyone else until a room opened up.

I remember once when a patient came to the hospital during the swine flu outbreak, when it first began. We put the patient in the ER initially. The rooms have these yellow lines on the floor, and we were all told not to cross it. As if a piece of yellow tape on the floor is going to stop a virus from floating right over it.

The ER in my hospital is new. individual rooms, and heavy glass doors. But in a lot of other hospitals, the only thing separating an infected patient from someone else is a curtain. Literally, just a curtain.

Even on the hospital floors, alot of places still use duel occupancy patient rooms. So what happens if you have a 300 bed hospital, but almost every room is duel occupancy? I'll tell you, either everyones roommate gets infected, or all those duel occupancy rooms become single occupancy, and the amount of people that the hospital can handle just got halved.

We deal with heart attacks, trauma, dehydration, strokes, and sniffles. Most hospitals have no reason, whatsoever, to invest in serious isolation techniques. Look what happens when patients start getting c-diff. All they do is close the door, and pull out an "isolation cart". Which only has a thin tissue paper like garment and some gloves. this works for c-diff, but a viral outbrak is not c-diff

Sure, we put HEPA filters on when going into a reverse isolation room for a patient with TB or something, but again, there are only a finite number of those rooms.

And again, all of this is based on traditional field triage methods. putting people in groups, and bringing the most serious cases in first. For a hospital, that means respiratory distress, and chest pain, period. I you are at that stage with Ebola, you won't even make it into the hospital. You would come in with a headache, fever, or sore throat, none of which are an emergency.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35282601


Great reply, earth-shattering analysis.

I've seen doctors and nurses posting that they think a lot of their colleagues will be "calling in sick" if there is an outbreak. I have the utmost respect for people in your line of work but let's face it, isn't doing your job during an Ebola outbreak too risky?

I see many hospitals closing because I don't care how angelic you are, your responsibility is to yourself and your family over everything else.

Personally, I'd look at it as being irresponsible to keep working in the conditions you just described during an Ebola outbreak.

Any thoughts on that?
Anonymous Coward
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08/06/2014 04:04 PM
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Re: Ebola - A perspective you might need to hear.
ebola will do nothing.
 Quoting: T-Man


^^^^^this^^^^^

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