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HELP! Legal Straw Man and Sovereignty UCC-1 theory valid?
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 196275
7/27/2007 3:23 PM | | Re: HELP! Legal Straw Man and Sovereignty UCC-1 theory valid? | Quote |
shibumi2
What if the complaint is from a local attorney reresenting Citibank?
Thanks Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1265
hey!
of course they have to hire a local attorney that is licensed to practice in the state where the action is being brought (suit filed).
the first thing to check is to see if citibank is licensed as a business entity in the state you are being sued in. BE CAREFUL! there are numerous entities operating under the Citibank name so you have to make sure you understand the exact legal name of the credit card company/Citibank that is suing you. So, if Citibank South Dakota was the issuer of the card, check with your secretary of state to make sure that Citibank SOUTH DAKOTA is licensed to practice business there. Not just Citibank.
if they aren't you motion to dismiss and it HAS to be granted. I always check that first because its the easiest and the judge has NO discretion in the matter.
If they are licensed to do business with the secretary of state, you file a motion to dismiss anyway based on the above info on the thread.
i've done this a LOT and never lost...because you CAN'T lose as long as you aren't BULLSHITTED.
have fun because it IS fun to stick it up the ass of those that have exploited so many for so long |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 196275
7/27/2007 3:49 PM | | Re: HELP! Legal Straw Man and Sovereignty UCC-1 theory valid? | Quote |
the credit card companies can never win if you know what you're doing since the whole thing is a massive fraud |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 272916
7/27/2007 7:51 PM | | Re: HELP! Legal Straw Man and Sovereignty UCC-1 theory valid? | Quote |
I just realized - after reading five fascinating pages of this thread - that it's "old"!! September of '06!!! I am really glad it got resurrected 'cuz it is so necessary. And I hope shibumi2 is still around to answer questions 'cuz I am in a m-e-s-s.
I'm unemployed, having a helluva time finding a slave labor job after raising my kids for 20 years. The past 7 years I spent working online so that doesn't help with trying to get a "regular" job after a 20 year absence, too, 'cuz it's so out of the box. But when the Patriot Ass passed, the SEC went after all the programs I was living on and shut them down so I could no longer pay my credit cards, mortgage and Amerikan Depressed loan. Prior to the Patriot Ass, I never ever missed or was late on an payment on anything in my life.
Long story short - I'm going bankrupt but it has taken a long time to file 'cuz I had to find a lawyer who'd work for low income people. I finally got a lawyer on retainer, but can't file 'cuz I can't afford the $300 it'll take to do so, since I don't have a slave labor job yet.
Here's my dilemma. Back in Feb. Amer. Depressed went right to a lawyer - not a collection agency. I hadn't seen this thread so the letter I wrote to dispute it wasn't really a dispute. My lawyer can't get him to back off any longer. Now I have to go to court on this Monday to face the AX lawyer and the judge. If I don't, I'll be in default. Incidentally, I live in Maine but the Am. Exp. lawyer is from New Hampshire - if that makes any difference.
I have no wages they can garnish 'cuz I haven't got a job. They can't go after the house 'cuz it's in foreclosure and totally falling apart to boot (splitting in two from a half foundation!). My car is also overdue so I'm in danger of losing that so they can't take that. My clothes are all second hand, I own no jewelry - nada. Been poor all my life.
Question is - what on earth can they take from me?? What good is it going to do them to get their judgement against me? And is there anything I can do with UCC at this point? It's been such a hard year I've developed a disease and just cry all the time. The bastards really got me. What a fucked-up system. |
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shibumi2
User ID: 196275
7/27/2007 8:15 PM | | Re: HELP! Legal Straw Man and Sovereignty UCC-1 theory valid? | Quote |
hey! Don't let it get you down because it's all artificial anyway. The system works on fear and intimidation so don't feed the system----step 1.
Can you scan your docs and post them somewhere? What I need to see is the complaint, summons and any other info you've received.
I'm assuming that you haven't been to court yet on this? If not, you can request a continuance, like 30 days, and they are almost always automatically granted. The best reason to give is that you are trying to find an attorney even tho actually using an attorney is probably the worst thing you could do. Judges like to think they are helping some fellow shark have his next meal.
Use the 30 days to prepare. I assume there is a complaint you were issued and I assume you haven't answered it yet. You'll have to do that and it isn't difficult at all. You'll find out that the legal industry exists only because they create an illusion of complexity. Actually, it couldn't be easier once you dig in a little.
The answer to the complaint is just responding to the charges they have brought against you. You're basically going to respond by neither admitting or denying but instead demanding strict proof. They're fucked if they can't get YOU to be the witness against yourself.....UNDERSTAND THAT!!! If YOU don't admit things (like that they are your charges, that you signed up for the card...blah blah) they are FUCKED because they have no witnesses...and no witnesses meand NO CASE.
So what you have to remember is not to admit ANYTHING...nothing! Let them prove it cause they can't.
I'll be happy to help. The guy that started this thread had an original debt of $6K and the scum worked it up to 16K. He filed ONE motion and they threw it out. I've had the same experiences over and over.
Make them prove everything...next you'll ask for the ORIGINAL signed contract for the Credit card...think they have that lying around????hahaha..not even possible.
Don't sweta it...don't admit or deny anything until you understand what the hell you are doing. Go into court and ask for 30 days and you'll have all the time you need to deal with this. and don't let them freak you out and try not to be intimidated going in to coulrt. be polite but firm in not letting them intimidate you. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 196275
7/27/2007 8:17 PM | | Re: HELP! Legal Straw Man and Sovereignty UCC-1 theory valid? | Quote |
by the way, they are going for a default because it is easy and almost automatic because people don't know what the hell they are doing and 95% don't even show up.
they will get a default and hound you for years as you try and rebuild your life...so fuck them and give them a taste of the lash for a change
you can win easily if you don't defeat yourself |
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CNBC
User ID: 271235
7/27/2007 8:38 PM | | Re: HELP! Legal Straw Man and Sovereignty UCC-1 theory valid? | Quote |
CNBC has a program called Millionaire on tomorrow 7/28, watch it. It will help you with your problem. The program that was on the other day this week was all about debt. If you can get a copy of that program I would recommend watching it. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 196275
7/27/2007 8:42 PM | | Re: HELP! Legal Straw Man and Sovereignty UCC-1 theory valid? | Quote |
i didn't see it but i doubt it would offer the kind of advice this person needs. NBC is owned by GE, which has GE capital and holds a huge portfolio of credit card interests.
They are the biggest gainers from the CC scam and want to keep wage slaves working in the salt mines forever..since that is their bread and butter |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 272916
7/27/2007 8:51 PM | | Re: HELP! Legal Straw Man and Sovereignty UCC-1 theory valid? | Quote |
Well, as for asking for a continuance - it's now Friday at 8:45 p.m. and I'm due in court on Monday at 11:00 a.m.! Do I ask for a continuance before anything starts? Especially since I've had notice of this since last month, doesn't that seem - like last minute?
This was for a debt consolidation loan so it's a bit different from regular credit cards. How do I deny it's my signature or loan? Say no? Or do I just ask if this is the original document? I feel really out of my league!!
You are such a wonderful person to have helped so many people on this thread. Wish I had your confidence! |
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shibumi2
User ID: 196275
7/27/2007 9:09 PM | | Re: HELP! Legal Straw Man and Sovereignty UCC-1 theory valid? | Quote |
well, I was being dragged down by the legal system until i decided to fight back...and I found out that the legal system is populated by cowards and losers. seriously....you'll see that for yourself sooner or later. They can never win in a fair fight because they have had it easy for so long...they dont know how to deal with an opponent that knows the law...and the law is SIMPLE when you boil it down. If THEY bring a charge..THEY have to prove it! And they won't be able to.
Over the weekend, go on your secretary of state website and see if the EXACT legal name of the defendant is listed as being licensed to do business in your state. Most states you just type in the name EXACTLY and it will tell you if they are properly registered and the DATE they were registered. I was involved in one case where the Credit Card company registered BUT AFTER THE DATE THE COMPLAINT WAS FILED. That is an automatic loss for the CC company and there is no way they can recover from that.
Attorneys are lazy and stupid as a great man once said. And don't forget judges are lazy and stupid.
continuances are a dime a dozen and I doubt they will think twice...particularly if you say you've had some trouble finding a lawyer that will work for reduced fees as you are filing for bankruptcy at the same time.. I mean if they try and proceed and you've stated you aren't ready any order entered is almost guaranteed to be overturned. The first court date nothing happens anyway. Essentially by showing up and not allowing a default to be entered you've already WON you just don't know it yet. I'm 100% serious. You WILL win as long as you don't let them make YOU their star witness.
Be polite. tell them it's all new and confusing to you as you haven't really been in a situation like this ...or something similar. DOn't have an attitude but don't cower either....they smell fear and if you don't offer that up...you'll be way ahead. Also don't lie under any circumstances. Call a few lawyers tomorrow and ask them if they do PRO BONO work...which means FOR FREE. Some do a little but they will probably say no. When you are in court Monday, you will have the names of 2 or 3 lawyers you contacted that turned you down. Continuance granted. just don't lie but don't not prepare either. Do your homework.
Also, if you haven't read the Fair Debt collections practices act you should do so. Although you missed the 30 day window, read it anyway.
The lawyer representing the CC company also has to be licensed to practice in your state. Check his website and they usually say what state they are licensed to practice in. If he isn't he can obtain an exemption but it has to be approved usually by the State supreme court or state bar. If he isn't that's another thing you have in your arsenal.
Please don't sit around all weekend and bemoan your seemingly difficult situation. Starting reading and researching...the attorney, the judge, the cc company...read the FDCPA noted above and get to court early. Sit and listen for an hour or two at the number of BS cases that come up and familiarize yourself with how the judges and attorneys conduct business. Its all simple when you let it soak in. Get comfortable. If you are really sharp, go to the library or bookstore and pick up a book about how to represent yourself in court. I think there is even a DUMMIES version but I've never read it. I'm sure its full of BS but there may be a few nuggets you can pick out. Also google PRO SE which means represention onesself...there is a ton of info on the net about how to handle yourself in court without an attorney.
REMEMBER>>>THERE ARE ONLY TWO WAYS TO LOSE HERE. HIRING AN ATTTORNEY AND TESTIFYING AGAINST YOURSELF BY BEING THEIR STAR WITNESS.
Just get thru the Monday date and you'll be fine |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 196275
7/27/2007 9:11 PM | | Re: HELP! Legal Straw Man and Sovereignty UCC-1 theory valid? | Quote |
i reread your post...I think initially you said it was american express credit card...but rereading your post you say it's a debt consolidation loan? from a bank? If so is it a federal bank or state bank?
If you can scan the docs it would be extremely helpful.
procedures are probably similar, but best to be accurate. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76936
7/27/2007 9:15 PM | | Re: HELP! Legal Straw Man and Sovereignty UCC-1 theory valid? | Quote |
Wow, how great is that that shibumi2 is still around and answered right away! GLP is so cool :P
Good luck 272916! Listen to shibumi and you won't go wrong! |
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shibumi2
User ID: 196275
7/27/2007 9:26 PM | | Re: HELP! Legal Straw Man and Sovereignty UCC-1 theory valid? | Quote |
i went thru 3 years of hell in the legal system and had no choices but to give up or learn the game. I won and have been able to help others as well. Not that I take any credit for any of this....my only decision was to fight or quit which is the same decision we all make. Once you decide to fight, the help will come when you need it. Great people came to my aid and helped me. I have a debt that I am trying to repay here.
My sympathies go out to those ensnared in this corrupt and evil system...recognizing that we often get ourselves into these messes. I really did some soul searching because I believe that we are responsible for our actions and that my word is my bond. It took the education into how things work to see the inherent evil in the legal system, the medical industry, big government..etc..etc. I guess, as they say..we have met the enemy and he is us. I also learned what is meant by the expression ALL PROFESSIONS ARE A CONSPIRACY AGAINST THE LAITY....learn what that means and be careful in turning over responsibilty for your affairs to other people.
One thing to keep in mind is the extent of the racket. If someone owes the credit card companies say $1000....that debt is sold to third party debt collectors for maybe $70. The debt collectors rack up interest charges, fees, legal costs and will run it up to 6000 or 7000 in no time.
My questio to the CC companies is if you are willing to sell the debt off to a third party debt collector for $70...why not sell the debt to the person struggling to pay it off for the same $70. The cc company is in the same exact position and writes off the balance against their extreme profits.
answer that one and i'll quit helping people win this fight.
clarification: JUSTIFY that and I'll quit helping
furhter clarification: JUSTIFY as in win the argument on that point. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 196275
7/27/2007 9:28 PM | | Re: HELP! Legal Straw Man and Sovereignty UCC-1 theory valid? | Quote |
got to go poster but Ill check back tomorrow to see how ur doing! |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 272916
7/27/2007 10:24 PM | | Re: HELP! Legal Straw Man and Sovereignty UCC-1 theory valid? | Quote |
i reread your post...I think initially you said it was american express credit card...but rereading your post you say it's a debt consolidation loan? from a bank? If so is it a federal bank or state bank?
If you can scan the docs it would be extremely helpful.
procedures are probably similar, but best to be accurate. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 196275
I never actually had an Amerikan Distress card. It was, I guess, an account. Some "deal" I got in the mail once they smelled blood that the balances on other cards were getting up there. Tomorrow, I will grab the original papers out from 2-3 years ago and answer your question. I highly doubt it was state bank.
I wish I could scan the docs. I have a scanner but really don't know how to use it to post it somewhere like the hero who got his debt to go away did (and anyone who beats this system is a hero).
And you bet, I'll be spending my weekend reading. One last question before I hit the sack tonight - Would the lawyer - since he isn't a collection agency that bought the debt, be able to produce some document as original?
God bless all of you. We really are all in this together, aren't we? |
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bravo
User ID: 273519
7/27/2007 10:51 PM | | Re: HELP! Legal Straw Man and Sovereignty UCC-1 theory valid? | Quote |
Difficult to nearly impossible to pull it off, no matter that the principles might be valid. This nation has been sold into bondage, and the bonds are failing to perform as promised.
Your birth certificate was used as collateral backing for the national debt. The bondage is absolutely Bibical in nature. There is a book titled "Babylonian Woe" written by David Astle found in the files area of the yahoo group IJCCR. Get this book.
Here are some links: Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42896
This poster has given the most thorough, informative answer you could ever hope for, OP. I agree with him wholeheartedly.
I want to add that this is not something you pull out of your hat at the eleventh hour and 59th minute, without fully reading and understanding it first. You really need to have based youRobert W. Hawkinsole foundation on these principles. But hey, miracles can happen and I don't want to fully dissuade you. But if you don't understand this ONE HUNDRED AND TEN PERCENT, then don't do it!!! DON'T DO IT!!!
.. |
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dude in florida
User ID: 272097
7/27/2007 11:56 PM | | Re: HELP! Legal Straw Man and Sovereignty UCC-1 theory valid? | Quote |
does this work with debt collectors who call you about past due shit like cable or cell phone bills? what about medical bills? |
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Bean There
User ID: 236857
7/28/2007 7:52 AM | | Re: HELP! Legal Straw Man and Sovereignty UCC-1 theory valid? | Quote |
I also learned what is meant by the expression ALL PROFESSIONS ARE A CONSPIRACY AGAINST THE LAITY....learn what that means and be careful in turning over responsibilty for your affairs to other people.
* * *
My questio to the CC companies is if you are willing to sell the debt off to a third party debt collector for $70...why not sell the debt to the person struggling to pay it off for the same $70. Quoting: shibumi2 196275
BINGO !!
Thanks for sticking it out shibumi2. Like my screen name suggests, I "Been There". Does my Spirit good to read from unknown compatriots open with their experience and knowledge.
Keep up the Good Fight. Like the song says, "Don't let the dirty bastards get you down".
Peace |
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dude in florida
User ID: 272097
7/28/2007 8:35 AM | | Re: HELP! Legal Straw Man and Sovereignty UCC-1 theory valid? | Quote |
does this work with debt collectors who call you about past due shit like cable or cell phone bills? what about medical bills? Quoting: dude in florida
shibumi ignored me :( |
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shibumi2
User ID: 196275
7/28/2007 8:48 AM | | Re: HELP! Legal Straw Man and Sovereignty UCC-1 theory valid? | Quote |
so, a few things to check already mentioned...is the PLAINTIFF (the one filing the lawsuit) registered to do business in the state you live in? Is the attorney licensed to practice in the state you live in? Are YOU a resident in the state that suit was brought? Were you living there when the alleged credit charges were incurred?
read the complaint (lawsuit). Forget the legal bullshit and fancy writing. Is there any problem or do you disagree with ANYTHING in the complaint? In other words, do they have the facts right? Usually there are errors and you need to make note of them. If they are asserting facts, DON'T support their assertions. So the complaint might say:
1) On May 1, 1996, Jane Doe, Defendant, signed a contract with American Express and received a credit card in her name.
That is their first allegation. Your answer to that will be
NEITHER ADMITTED OR DENIED. DEFENDANT DEMANDS STRICT PROOF.
The reason you answer this way is that you are making them PROVE it. You aren't agreeing or saying it's not true so THEY will have to produce the signed contract to prove their assertion. What if they can't? They have no basis in law to proceed. What many companies might produce is a photocopy of a signed application. Is a photocopy PROOF? NO. SO the attorney for the CC company says this in court: "Ms. Doe, is this your signature?" What do you think 99.9% of all people say? They look at it and say YES. What did they just do? They became a COMPETENT FACT WITNESS AGAINST THEMSELVES. Which means, that they THEMSELVES have testified against themselves and have just lost the case. THEY DEFEATED THEMSELVES!! And that, my friend is the whole ballgame.
What if the person said "I don't know if I signed that or not. I had so many credit cards in the past I can't keep track." Then the attorney has no COMPETENT FACT WITNESS. No witness no case.
The attorney will keep badgering no doubt. "Oh come on, you must be able to tell if this is your signature or not?" the answer? "Well' with computer fraud and all I know it is easy to cut and paste someones signature into a document where it looks like the real thing. I've read about this in magazines and on tv. If I could see the ORIGINAL application I would be able to tell you if it were my signature or not."
that is about the time the attorneys face turns bright red.
anyway, you get the idea. They can't produce an original doc, you have not agreed to testify against yourself and the other side is checkmated. You have to be careful of the trickery which may follow, but just don't become their witness and they are toast. It's easy and fun once you know the game.
By the way, here is the outline of a MOTION FOR CONTINUANCE. You can use this if you don't feel comfortable doing the talking which most folks don't on their first time in...plus when you file the doc you have proof of your request. And because you made a request to the court, they can't proceed until they have ruled on your request--which means they will have to approve or tell you WHY they won't. And that WON'T happen here...believe it!
You should type up the document header info just like the lawsuit you received. In other words, do everything exactly the same as the suit up until where the unique information actually starts. Name of court, plaintiff/defendant info case number etc. should all be exactly the same. It might take some time to get it all correct but you want it to look as professional as possible.
Here is what to write. Change it to fit your circumstances and whatever you do...don't lie.
I, Jane Doe, UNREPRESENTED named Defendant in the above captioned case, and a citizen of the state of XXX (wherever you live) hereby MOTIONS this court to continue this case for 30 days for the following reasons:
1) I am in the process of filing bankruptcy. I have been having difficulty in obtaining legal representation in that matter due to my desperate financial situation and the fact no attorney has agreed to represent me for less that their normal fees.
2) In the above captioned matter, I have contacted (x) number of legal firms to request their assistance in representing me in this matter. So far, I have been unable to find any firms willing to represent or assist me for less than their normal fees. (have the names of a few firms you have contacted) (if you didn't contact more than one, you might start this paragraph at I HAVE BEEN UNABLE...although the judge will certainly ask you how many you have contacted. I prefer to be straightforward and not give the other side ammunition to use against you).
3) I need additional time to secure competent representation in this case or alternately learn how to represent myself in this matter, as I am unfamiliar with the legal procedures having no experience in these matters or in law.
4) (add any relevant information such as any personal difficulties you are having--such as "my car has been repossessed/broken down which makes it difficult to arrange to meet with attorneys...or my recent illness has made it difficult...whatever the issue that would help to explain why you need more time. But keep it relatively brief since judges dont like to read. Don't whine either...keep it matter of fact and to the point. you aren't trying to make your whole case her...just give a few reasons why you need more time.
For the above reasons, named defendant respectfully requests a 30 day continuance in the above captioned matter.
Signed
_______________________
Dated:
That's about it. Use their form to fill in any blanks if necessary but the above will 99.9% guarantee an extension is granted--automatic. Also, go ahead and ask for 60 days if you want. It's reasonable and the judge may grant it which puts pressure and costs the other side money. He may ask you why you need so much time and you have to have some logic...like the poor response to your looking for attorneys you think you may have to do this yourself and it takes time to learn everything since its so COMPLICATED (even tho its not the attorney and judge feel flattered). Or don't give them any strokes depending on how you feel about the scumbags trying to ruin your life. Different people look at that aspect differently and it doesnt matter in the ending. It's about 50-50 you will get more time...but you have set the stage for the next CONTINUANCE request, which you can certainly make. Some cases get continued for MONTHS or YEARS so don't sweat it at all.
Type it up and get to court when they open. Go to the county clerk and ask them to file stamp and enter this motion. You will need one copy for the court file (which the clerk will stamp and keep) one (or 2) file stamped copy for your self...one file stamped copy which you will hand to the attorney representing the CC company when you see him in court and one that you will hand to the judge in case the file copy doesn't make it to him before your hearing. The clerks do this all day..they know exactly what you need to do to file a motion. Be polite and ask for their help...they are usually all to happy to assist plus they work for you so you should expect their cooperation.
There!! You have just filed your first motion and the hardest part was getting the formatting correct. And once you have that done, subsequent filings are a breeze. |
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dude in florida
User ID: 272097
7/28/2007 8:52 AM | | Re: HELP! Legal Straw Man and Sovereignty UCC-1 theory valid? | Quote |
so if someone is paying all their bills they can stop paying them, let the collection hounds come a'running and then beat them down with the techniques described in this thread? even if it IS a debt that this person truly accrued and signed for somewhere along the way?
for instance, i have this furniture bill right. i no longer even have the furniture but i'm still paying on it. i actually stopped paying them for a some months when i was going through some stuff and they never sent it to collections, they called alot and i got letters saying they would take me to court. i currently have that bill and some others including credit cards in some debt consolidation companies hands that i pay every month.
i can get out of all that shit? none of it is secured debt.... |
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shibumi2
User ID: 196275
7/28/2007 9:00 AM | | Re: HELP! Legal Straw Man and Sovereignty UCC-1 theory valid? | Quote |
does this work with debt collectors who call you about past due shit like cable or cell phone bills? what about medical bills?
shibumi ignored me :( Quoting: dude in florida
sorry dude. I was posting to the person going to court Monday and got a little verbose.
It works for ANY debt collection action. ANY.
The whole racket is that credit card companies, banks, cable companies, almost any company used to RAPING the public with monopolies awarded thru their political cronies don't get their BLOOD MONEY for the poor stiffs trying to make it month to month.
They SELL your debt to a bunch of scum-suckers called THIRD PARTY DEBT COLLECTORS. These lowlifes buy up charged off debt for on average 7 CENTS for every dollar OWED by you or whomever. 7 CENTS. So you owe 10,000? The debt collectors pay maybe 500 or so then use a team of scumbags to harass you with calls, letters, calling employers, etc. to get you to PAY THEM. I had one outfit call me 300 TIMES. I kept a log and had a lot of fun. I would tell them to hold please and put the phone down. Kept them tied up which costs them $$ and prevents them from making as many calls to harass OTHERS.
Once I kept them on line for 40 minutes...I put the phone next to a CD player and played Led Zeppelin II. Must have had a Zep fan on that call cause he tracked almost the whole CD. At even $25 per hour, I cost them maybe $15 or so that they would never recover from me.
The important thing is its used against the third party debt collectors. If you have a SEARS card, and SEARS themselves contact you then its handled differently. However that seldom happens. I have seen third party scumbags PRETEND to be form the firm or leave a vague message that CHASE was calling. It's almost never the truth.
The most important thing is not to ignore the DUNNING letter, or FIRST letter you receive saying they outfit represents Florida Electric or whomever. Then it says you have 30 days to contest the charges. THIS IS THE GOLDEN HOUR. DOn't ignore the letter(s). It takes 2 minutes to contest the charges...or demand proof of the debt. THEN they are screwed. Because the fair debt collection practices act forbids them to proceed until they have proven the debt, which of course they can't/ At that point they have to stop all collection efforts including calls, letters etc.
So they are shut down. Most people don't know that and toss the dunning letter, thus playing into the hands of the scumbags.
READ the Fair Debt collection practices act. It's short. Read it 100 times until you KNOW what you are talking about and you're home free.
And remember...don't ever become their witness. DEMAND STRICT PROOF OF THEIR CLAIMS and they are history. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 196275
7/28/2007 9:05 AM | | Re: HELP! Legal Straw Man and Sovereignty UCC-1 theory valid? | Quote |
so if someone is paying all their bills they can stop paying them, let the collection hounds come a'running and then beat them down with the techniques described in this thread? even if it IS a debt that this person truly accrued and signed for somewhere along the way?
for instance, i have this furniture bill right. i no longer even have the furniture but i'm still paying on it. i actually stopped paying them for a some months when i was going through some stuff and they never sent it to collections, they called alot and i got letters saying they would take me to court. i currently have that bill and some others including credit cards in some debt consolidation companies hands that i pay every month.
i can get out of all that shit? none of it is secured debt.... Quoting: dude in florida
absolutely, dude.
Actually, the next time you get a letter just act like its your first. Say something like
"I am in receipt of your letter dated xx/xx/xx and am demanding lawful validation and verification of this alleged debt"
Signed XXXXXXX
Dated: xxxxxxx
I usually elaborate a little but that is the essential element of it. SIMPLE. In fact it's so simple ANYONE can win this fight.
I'm not a organized religion type of person, but the bible says something to the effect of: FOR WANT OF KNOWLEDGE, MY PEOPLE ARE LOST. How profound and true that is!!
fuck em' dude. Go for the throat. These scumbags were tossed out of WEST VIRGINIA in total! The states attorney threw them ALL out and said in essence that they were the sleaziest bunch of scumbags he had ever seen. And people mock west virginia as being backwards! They may have to only HONEST attorney general in the country. |
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dude in florida
User ID: 272097
7/28/2007 9:06 AM | | Re: HELP! Legal Straw Man and Sovereignty UCC-1 theory valid? | Quote |
does this work with debt collectors who call you about past due shit like cable or cell phone bills? what about medical bills?
shibumi ignored me :(
sorry dude. I was posting to the person going to court Monday and got a little verbose.
It works for ANY debt collection action. ANY.
The whole racket is that credit card companies, banks, cable companies, almost any company used to RAPING the public with monopolies awarded thru their political cronies don't get their BLOOD MONEY for the poor stiffs trying to make it month to month.
They SELL your debt to a bunch of scum-suckers called THIRD PARTY DEBT COLLECTORS. These lowlifes buy up charged off debt for on average 7 CENTS for every dollar OWED by you or whomever. 7 CENTS. So you owe 10,000? The debt collectors pay maybe 500 or so then use a team of scumbags to harass you with calls, letters, calling employers, etc. to get you to PAY THEM. I had one outfit call me 300 TIMES. I kept a log and had a lot of fun. I would tell them to hold please and put the phone down. Kept them tied up which costs them $$ and prevents them from making as many calls to harass OTHERS.
Once I kept them on line for 40 minutes...I put the phone next to a CD player and played Led Zeppelin II. Must have had a Zep fan on that call cause he tracked almost the whole CD. At even $25 per hour, I cost them maybe $15 or so that they would never recover from me.
The important thing is its used against the third party debt collectors. If you have a SEARS card, and SEARS themselves contact you then its handled differently. However that seldom happens. I have seen third party scumbags PRETEND to be form the firm or leave a vague message that CHASE was calling. It's almost never the truth.
The most important thing is not to ignore the DUNNING letter, or FIRST letter you receive saying they outfit represents Florida Electric or whomever. Then it says you have 30 days to contest the charges. THIS IS THE GOLDEN HOUR. DOn't ignore the letter(s). It takes 2 minutes to contest the charges...or demand proof of the debt. THEN they are screwed. Because the fair debt collection practices act forbids them to proceed until they have proven the debt, which of course they can't/ At that point they have to stop all collection efforts including calls, letters etc.
So they are shut down. Most people don't know that and toss the dunning letter, thus playing into the hands of the scumbags.
READ the Fair Debt collection practices act. It's short. Read it 100 times until you KNOW what you are talking about and you're home free.
And remember...don't ever become their witness. DEMAND STRICT PROOF OF THEIR CLAIMS and they are history. Quoting: shibumi2 196275
i can't get any simpler, thanks alot. how about my second question? |
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dude in florida
User ID: 272097
7/28/2007 9:09 AM | | Re: HELP! Legal Straw Man and Sovereignty UCC-1 theory valid? | Quote |
so if someone is paying all their bills they can stop paying them, let the collection hounds come a'running and then beat them down with the techniques described in this thread? even if it IS a debt that this person truly accrued and signed for somewhere along the way?
for instance, i have this furniture bill right. i no longer even have the furniture but i'm still paying on it. i actually stopped paying them for a some months when i was going through some stuff and they never sent it to collections, they called alot and i got letters saying they would take me to court. i currently have that bill and some others including credit cards in some debt consolidation companies hands that i pay every month.
i can get out of all that shit? none of it is secured debt....
absolutely, dude.
Actually, the next time you get a letter just act like its your first. Say something like
"I am in receipt of your letter dated xx/xx/xx and am demanding lawful validation and verification of this alleged debt"
Signed XXXXXXX
Dated: xxxxxxx
I usually elaborate a little but that is the essential element of it. SIMPLE. In fact it's so simple ANYONE can win this fight.
I'm not a organized religion type of person, but the bible says something to the effect of: FOR WANT OF KNOWLEDGE, MY PEOPLE ARE LOST. How profound and true that is!!
fuck em' dude. Go for the throat. These scumbags were tossed out of WEST VIRGINIA in total! The states attorney threw them ALL out and said in essence that they were the sleaziest bunch of scumbags he had ever seen. And people mock west virginia as being backwards! They may have to only HONEST attorney general in the country. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 196275
you mean west virginia threw out debt consolidation companies? so, i guess i need to call my debt consolidation folks and tell them delete my info....how do we get around the whole fucked up credit issue that results from this? my credit is already fucked and i was actually trying to get it back together....thoughts?? |
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shibumi2
User ID: 196275
7/28/2007 9:10 AM | | Re: HELP! Legal Straw Man and Sovereignty UCC-1 theory valid? | Quote |
you probably signed a STUPID agreement and were hosed on interest. YOU have to decide the right thing in this situation. If you feel the transaction was honest and upright, then pay the debt. If you were charged 35% interest and too lazy or stupid to read what you were signing up for...maybe you want to own up and pay it off.
It depends on the situation and the person. I make a practice to pay my bills but there have been several circumstance when I have been dragged into a fight I know the other side was wrong...or I otherwise felt justified.
That is for each person to decide. I also know people screw up and sometimes need a break to get on with their lives. Why don't the banks cut the person the same deal they offer the scumbags. If you could pay off the debt you mentioned for 7 CENTS for every dollar you owe...would you? I think almost everyone would. So it's a scam and you have no obligation to be a party to a FRAUD against you.
I'll get off the soapbox now. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 196275
7/28/2007 9:17 AM | | Re: HELP! Legal Straw Man and Sovereignty UCC-1 theory valid? | Quote |
you mean west virginia threw out debt consolidation companies? so, i guess i need to call my debt consolidation folks and tell them delete my info....how do we get around the whole fucked up credit issue that results from this? my credit is already fucked and i was actually trying to get it back together....thoughts??
There is a way to correct your credit history and it's easy and free. You might want to first consider if that's what you really want! Seriously.
If you fucked up your credit, do you understand why? If you get a clean slate, which is easy and doesn't cost anything...what will you do next? Go out and run up a lot of new charges and default on them?
I am more reluctant to assist in this aspect unless the person knows why and isn't just using these techniques to game the system. My general criteria is if someone has the tenacity to get themselves out of their scrape and demonstrates a TRUE understanding of the system and how it operates. Also, that they agree to READ and UNDERSTAND a credit card agreement (yes, the FINE PRINT) or mortgage and they will be quizzed. They also have to have an agreement with me that they will NEVER again sign anything without understanding what they are signing.
But, bottom line?? I think people are better off without credit. Live within your means and don't get into the spiral again. It's interesting to note that ATTORNEYS, when considering filing a suit against someone or some busines, first run a CREDIT CHECK. If it looks like yours does...they NEVER FILE. Why? Cause they have to be assured of collecting. HA. Bad credit may be the best thing that ever happened to you but you just don't know it. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 196275
7/28/2007 9:33 AM | | Re: HELP! Legal Straw Man and Sovereignty UCC-1 theory valid? | Quote |
to clarify...i'm talking about attorneys that are considering filing a lawsuit for whatever cause...personal injury, etc where they may be working on a contingency. Not the attorneys doing the debt collections scam.
Attorneys are hurting today. The debt business is big business for them and very profitable. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 196275
7/28/2007 9:39 AM | | Re: HELP! Legal Straw Man and Sovereignty UCC-1 theory valid? | Quote |
I also learned what is meant by the expression ALL PROFESSIONS ARE A CONSPIRACY AGAINST THE LAITY....learn what that means and be careful in turning over responsibilty for your affairs to other people.
* * *
My questio to the CC companies is if you are willing to sell the debt off to a third party debt collector for $70...why not sell the debt to the person struggling to pay it off for the same $70.
BINGO !!
Thanks for sticking it out shibumi2. Like my screen name suggests, I "Been There". Does my Spirit good to read from unknown compatriots open with their experience and knowledge.
Keep up the Good Fight. Like the song says, "Don't let the dirty bastards get you down".
Peace Quoting: Bean There 236857
HEY BRO!
Congratulations for fighting the bastards. Someone once said "If I see farther than other men, It's only because i've stood on the shoulders of giants"
how true. we have to help those people that are being ruined by this evil system, but after we have to make sure they don't repeat the same actions that got them where they were. |
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Bean There
User ID: 194164
7/28/2007 9:40 AM | | Re: HELP! Legal Straw Man and Sovereignty UCC-1 theory valid? | Quote |
Right now I have a new hobby. Mom died last year leaving a few grand in credit card debt. Some has already been sold off so this could get easier.
My brother and I have two attorneys giving two different advices. One says the credit holders can go after the estate,
even going so far as to force probate if one is not filed.
The other says they got nothing to stand on and can go pound sand.
There isn't much to adjudicate since most everything was transferred with Quit Claim Deeds and Transfer on Death certifications.
Gotta put up with it anyhow. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 196275
7/28/2007 9:42 AM | | Re: HELP! Legal Straw Man and Sovereignty UCC-1 theory valid? | Quote |
dude...one other point of the ethics of debt.
take the time and read the elements of what constitutes a LEGAL, lawful and binding contract.
It generally incorporates the concept of two equals, well informed, entering freely into a mutually beneficial arrangement.
do you honestly think ANYONE reads the credit card agreements they sign....or understands the terms? I don't. So I see one pass since there wasn't a LAWFUL contract |
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