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For Status quo, mainline Christians: Some prophecies you probably never read before

 
Johnny Danger
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07/19/2006 11:19 AM
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For Status quo, mainline Christians: Some prophecies you probably never read before
II Esdras 15 - Apocrypha

15

[1] Behold, speak thou in the ears of my people the words of prophecy, which I will put in thy mouth, saith the Lord:
[2] And cause them to be written in paper: for they are faithful and true.
[3] Fear not the imaginations against thee, let not the incredulity of them trouble thee, that speak against thee.
[4] For all the unfaithful shall die in their unfaithfulness.
[5] Behold, saith the Lord, I will bring plagues upon the world; the sword, famine, death, and destruction.
[6] For wickedness hath exceedingly polluted the whole earth, and their hurtful works are fulfilled.
[7] Therefore saith the Lord,
[8] I will hold my tongue no more as touching their wickedness, which they profanely commit, neither will I suffer them in those things, in which they wickedly exercise themselves: behold, the innocent and righteous blood crieth unto me, and the souls of the just complain continually.
[9] And therefore, saith the Lord, I will surely avenge them, and receive unto me all the innocent blood from among them.
[10] Behold, my people is led as a flock to the slaughter: I will not suffer them now to dwell in the land of Egypt:
[11] But I will bring them with a mighty hand and a stretched out arm, and smite Egypt with plagues, as before, and will destroy all the land thereof.
[12] Egypt shall mourn, and the foundation of it shall be smitten with the plague and punishment that God shall bring upon it.
[13] They that till the ground shall mourn: for their seeds shall fail through the blasting and hail, and with a fearful constellation.
[14] Woe to the world and them that dwell therein!
[15] For the sword and their destruction draweth nigh, and one people shall stand up and fight against another, and swords in their hands.
[16] For there shall be sedition among men, and invading one another; they shall not regard their kings nor princes, and the course of their actions shall stand in their power.
[17] A man shall desire to go into a city, and shall not be able.
[18] For because of their pride the cities shall be troubled, the houses shall be destroyed, and men shall be afraid.
[19] A man shall have no pity upon his neighbour, but shall destroy their houses with the sword, and spoil their goods, because of the lack of bread, and for great tribulation.
[20] Behold, saith God, I will call together all the kings of the earth to reverence me, which are from the rising of the sun, from the south, from the east, and Libanus; to turn themselves one against another, and repay the things that they have done to them.
[21] Like as they do yet this day unto my chosen, so will I do also, and recompense in their bosom. Thus saith the Lord God;
[22] My right hand shall not spare the sinners, and my sword shall not cease over them that shed innocent blood upon the earth.
[23] The fire is gone forth from his wrath, and hath consumed the foundations of the earth, and the sinners, like the straw that is kindled.
[24] Woe to them that sin, and keep not my commandments! saith the Lord.
[25] I will not spare them: go your way, ye children, from the power, defile not my sanctuary.
[26] For the Lord knoweth all them that sin against him, and therefore delivereth he them unto death and destruction.
[27] For now are the plagues come upon the whole earth and ye shall remain in them: for God shall not deliver you, because ye have sinned against him.
[28] Behold an horrible vision, and the appearance thereof from the east:
[29] Where the nations of the dragons of Arabia shall come out with many chariots, and the multitude of them shall be carried as the wind upon earth, that all they which hear them may fear and tremble.
[30] Also the Carmanians raging in wrath shall go forth as the wild boars of the wood, and with great power shall they come, and join battle with them, and shall waste a portion of the land of the Assyrians.
[31] And then shall the dragons have the upper hand, remembering their nature; and if they shall turn themselves, conspiring together in great power to persecute them,
[32] Then these shall be troubled bled, and keep silence through their power, and shall flee.
[33] And from the land of the Assyrians shall the enemy besiege them, and consume some of them, and in their host shall be fear and dread, and strife among their kings.
[34] Behold clouds from the east and from the north unto the south, and they are very horrible to look upon, full of wrath and storm.
[35] They shall smite one upon another, and they shall smite down a great multitude of stars upon the earth, even their own star; and blood shall be from the sword unto the belly,
[36] And dung of men unto the camel's hough.
[37] And there shall be great fearfulness and trembling upon earth: and they that see the wrath shall be afraid, and trembling shall come upon them.
[38] And then shall there come great storms from the south, and from the north, and another part from the west.
[39] And strong winds shall arise from the east, and shall open it; and the cloud which he raised up in wrath, and the star stirred to cause fear toward the east and west wind, shall be destroyed.
[40] The great and mighty clouds shall be puffed up full of wrath, and the star, that they may make all the earth afraid, and them that dwell therein; and they shall pour out over every high and eminent place an horrible star,
[41] Fire, and hail, and flying swords, and many waters, that all fields may be full, and all rivers, with the abundance of great waters.
[42] And they shall break down the cities and walls, mountains and hills, trees of the wood, and grass of the meadows, and their corn.
[43] And they shall go stedfastly unto Babylon, and make her afraid.
[44] They shall come to her, and besiege her, the star and all wrath shall they pour out upon her: then shall the dust and smoke go up unto the heaven, and all they that be about her shall bewail her.
[45] And they that remain under her shall do service unto them that have put her in fear.
[46] And thou, Asia, that art partaker of the hope of Babylon, and art the glory of her person:
[47] Woe be unto thee, thou wretch, because thou hast made thyself like unto her; and hast decked thy daughters in whoredom, that they might please and glory in thy lovers, which have always desired to commit whoredom with thee.
[48] Thou hast followed her that is hated in all her works and inventions: therefore saith God,
[49] I will send plagues upon thee; widowhood, poverty, famine, sword, and pestilence, to waste thy houses with destruction and death.
[50] And the glory of thy Power shall be dried up as a flower, the heat shall arise that is sent over thee.
[51] Thou shalt be weakened as a poor woman with stripes, and as one chastised with wounds, so that the mighty and lovers shall not be able to receive thee.
[52] Would I with jealousy have so proceeded against thee, saith the Lord,
[53] If thou hadst not always slain my chosen, exalting the stroke of thine hands, and saying over their dead, when thou wast drunken,
[54] Set forth the beauty of thy countenance?
[55] The reward of thy whoredom shall be in thy bosom, therefore shalt thou receive recompence.
[56] Like as thou hast done unto my chosen, saith the Lord, even so shall God do unto thee, and shall deliver thee into mischief
[57] Thy children shall die of hunger, and thou shalt fall through the sword: thy cities shall be broken down, and all thine shall perish with the sword in the field.
[58] They that be in the mountains shall die of hunger, and eat their own flesh, and drink their own blood, for very hunger of bread, and thirst of water.
[59] Thou as unhappy shalt come through the sea, and receive plagues again.
[60] And in the passage they shall rush on the idle city, and shall destroy some portion of thy land, and consume part of thy glory, and shall return to Babylon that was destroyed.
[61] And thou shalt be cast down by them as stubble, and they shall be unto thee as fire;
[62] And shall consume thee, and thy cities, thy land, and thy mountains; all thy woods and thy fruitful trees shall they burn up with fire.
[63] Thy children shall they carry away captive, and, look, what thou hast, they shall spoil it, and mar the beauty of thy face.
Anonymous Coward
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07/19/2006 11:22 AM
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Re: For Status quo, mainline Christians: Some prophecies you probably never read before
So stupid to post unreadable garbage like this.

devil6 scared

'mainline Christians' - scary.
Johnny Danger (OP)
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07/19/2006 11:24 AM
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Re: For Status quo, mainline Christians: Some prophecies you probably never read before
I just read it, and understood it perfectly. You have a problem with english?

jD
Johnny Danger (OP)
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07/19/2006 11:30 AM
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Re: For Status quo, mainline Christians: Some prophecies you probably never read before
some do. But I know a lot of them has left here.

jD
Anonymous Coward
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07/19/2006 11:32 AM
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Re: For Status quo, mainline Christians: Some prophecies you probably never read before
I just read it, and understood it perfectly. You have a problem with english?

jD
 Quoting: Johnny Danger 116563


The message is so plagued with judgement & fear it becomes unreadable.

If you understood it perfectly, you would understand you are doing a dis service & speading fear. The PTB love you for it too.
LogDog

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07/19/2006 11:33 AM
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Re: For Status quo, mainline Christians: Some prophecies you probably never read before
What's the context for all of this? What does the rest of 2nd Esdras talk about? What's in chapters 14 and 16? Around when was it written?

I've read many parts of the apocrypha, but not much of 2nd Esdras, so forgive me for my ignorance.

Just like any other part of scripture though, we need plenty in the ways of context to be able to understand what it's saying. This is the part that trips up most mainline Christians, is context.
Anonymous Coward
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07/19/2006 11:36 AM
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Re: For Status quo, mainline Christians: Some prophecies you probably never read before
i doubt if status quo anything could stomache this place
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 114312


Too much truth for them.
Johnny Danger (OP)
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07/19/2006 11:40 AM
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Re: For Status quo, mainline Christians: Some prophecies you probably never read before
Here. You can read the entire discourse.

[link to www.earlyjewishwritings.com]
Anonymous Coward
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07/19/2006 11:40 AM
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Re: For Status quo, mainline Christians: Some prophecies you probably never read before
Seriously, JD, what did you intend for people to do with this info?

Is it historical analysis or for what?
Anonymous Coward
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07/19/2006 11:41 AM
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Re: For Status quo, mainline Christians: Some prophecies you probably never read before
Jeremiah 5:3 O LORD, are not thine eyes upon the truth? thou hast stricken them, but they have not grieved; thou hast consumed them, but they have refused to receive correction: they have made their faces harder than a rock; they have refused to return.

Jeremiah 5:4 Therefore I said, Surely these are poor; they are foolish: for they know not the way of the LORD, nor the judgment of their God.
DNAprototype

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07/19/2006 11:43 AM
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Re: For Status quo, mainline Christians: Some prophecies you probably never read before
Jesus is the answer
all the rest is just frosting on the cake
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 114312


WTF does that mean?

Sounds like something you read on a bumper sticker.
shortcord (nli)
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07/19/2006 11:44 AM
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Re: For Status quo, mainline Christians: Some prophecies you probably never read before
do you really think status quo mainline christians come to glp?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 114312

I am a baptized bible believing christian. I don't come to GLP to prosletyze, though. I come to GLP for news, opinion, pop-culture and all the other info exchange that make up GLP. If I want to have a bible study or debate the rapture, it won't be here. I guess I'm not as rigidly dogmatic as some are. peace
Johnny Danger (OP)
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07/19/2006 11:46 AM
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Re: For Status quo, mainline Christians: Some prophecies you probably never read before
Seriously, JD, what did you intend for people to do with this info?

Is it historical analysis or for what?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 112626


My intention was to show you that there is more to these end times scenarios than what the KJV tells you.

That was my purpose.

jD
DNAprototype

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07/19/2006 11:49 AM
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Re: For Status quo, mainline Christians: Some prophecies you probably never read before
Seriously, JD, what did you intend for people to do with this info?

Is it historical analysis or for what?


My intention was to show you that there is more to these end times scenarios than what the KJV tells you.

That was my purpose.

jD
 Quoting: Johnny Danger 116563


How do these words help to show us that?
Is there some reading between the lines I am missing?
DNAprototype

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07/19/2006 11:49 AM
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Re: For Status quo, mainline Christians: Some prophecies you probably never read before
i am just saying
once you have Jesus in your life
you don't really need all of that other stuff
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 114312


Bumper sticker
DNAprototype

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07/19/2006 11:50 AM
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Re: For Status quo, mainline Christians: Some prophecies you probably never read before
Jesus gave us the Holy Spirit to be witnesses
its a shame to waste that gift
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 114312


Low selling bumper sticker.
DNAprototype

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07/19/2006 11:53 AM
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Re: For Status quo, mainline Christians: Some prophecies you probably never read before
DNA you must have a very boring existance if this is what gives you purpose in life
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 114312


There it is!!! The hate & anger. Typical Christian. "Oh shit!! I can't reply to this guys questions. All I got is bumper stickers! Lets call him names!!"
Johnny Danger (OP)
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07/19/2006 11:54 AM
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Re: For Status quo, mainline Christians: Some prophecies you probably never read before
There is a story in the bible about the ant and the sluggard. The ant diligently prepared for winter, while the sluggard did not. Needless to say, the ant survived.

There is a joke, but in all seriousness, it's about true. I'll try to paraphrase it.

A Christian lives in a flood zone, and the waters begin to rise one day. they keep going up and up, til finally the man is on the roof of his house.

A row boat comes by, "Hey brother. Want a lift?"

The man replies, "No. I'm trusting in the Lord."

Then finally the waters keep rising, and another boat comes by:

"Come on Brother. I'll lead you to safety?"

"Nah, I'm trusting in the Lord."

The waters rise more, and a helocopter comes by:

"Come on! We'll pull you up to safety."

"Nah, I'm trusting in the Lord."

Finally the man drowns, and goes stand before God.

"God! Why didn't you save me??!!!!"

God replies, "Well, I sent you a row boat, but you declined. Then I sent you another boat, and yet you declined. Then finally I sent you a helocopter, and you declined and drown.

I can't force you to accept my gifts of safety and protection."

How true that is!

I put up my FREE Nuclear Survival Page.

[link to www7.zapto.org]

Realistically, I doubt anyone has printed out one article on them. I doubt anyone has applied the principles on them to their lives.

So what can we do? Hold a gun to you head and MAKE you prepare?

No. All I can do is put the info out, and pray you will adhere to it.

If not, my concience is clear and I dont have to answer for your blood on judgment day.

jD
Anonymous Coward
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07/19/2006 11:57 AM
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Re: For Status quo, mainline Christians: Some prophecies you probably never read before
The Apocrypha is not a "Christian" text, but an addition that was made to the bible by the Catholic church. It is strictly a Catholic text and is not accepted by any others as the Word of God because of many errors contained that even the Vatican admits to...

Now you have a movement within the Catholic Church to grant Mary, mother of Jesus, equal status in Heaven with Jesus. This is blasphemy and heresy.

What About the Apocrypha?

c.200-100 B.C.


"Apocrypha" is a term that commonly means writings in Catholic and Orthodox Old Testaments that are not in modern Protestant and Jewish Bibles. This tract explains what the Apocrypha is, why some say it is God’s word, and why others say it is not.


The Apocrypha is:

Tobit (Tobias) -1 historical error - 9 pgs

Judith -14 historical errors -14 pgs

Additions to Esther -2 historical errors - 4 pgs

Wisdom of Solomon -2 contradict doct. -19 pgs

Sirach (Ecclesiasticus) -8 contradict doct. -44 pgs

Baruch -4 historical errors - 7 pgs

Song of the 3 Holy Children (in Daniel) - 2 pgs

Susanna (in Daniel) - 2 pgs

Bel & the Dragon (in Dan) -1 error - 2 pgs

1 and 2 Maccabees -2 historical errors -41 pgs

¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾ ¾

1 and 2 Esdras (a.k.a. 3 4 Esdras)

Prayer of Manasses




Where the Apocrypha Came From


These fourteen writings first appeared after the Old Testament was translated to Greek about 200-100 BC. This translation, called the Septuagint, was well done for the Pentateuch, not that well done for some of the prophetic books. Jews in Palestine never called it scripture. Greek speaking Jews and Christians outside of Palestine assumed it was scripture, since it was in the Septuagint.


When the early Christian monk Jerome translated the Old Testament from Hebrew into Latin, he had to answer a question: "Should he include these books or not?" Early in his life he thought all the Septuagint was inspired, but later he believed only the Hebrew originals, and not the apocrypha were scripture. Jerome coined a term to describe these books: Apocrypha from the Greek word for hidden, to distinguish these from both "true scripture" and other religious writings.


In 90 AD. the Jewish Council at Jamnia excluded from the Old Testament all but the writings Jews and Protestants accept today. Among Christians there was no consensus until Augustine championed the Apocrypha at the Council of Carthage in 397 AD (after Jerome's death). These writings were in Bibles used by Christians for over 1,100 years. Even the King James Bible originally included it.


Which Apocrypha?


When both some Catholic theologians and all Protestant reformers excluded the Apocrypha from the Bible, the Catholic Council of Trent in 1546 AD. took action. Besides condemning Luther to hell, the Council officially recognized all the books of the Council of Carthage as being in the Bible -- except for the Prayer of Manasses and 1 and 2 Esdras. (Some Catholic Bibles call Esther and Nehemiah 1,2 Esdras, which changes 1,2 Esdras into 3,4 Esdras.) Thus the Catholic Apocrypha today is three books shorter than the Apocrypha throughout most of history and the Orthodox Church today.




Why Some Say It IS God’s Word


Inference: It was in the Septuagint. It was affirmed at Carthage 397 AD., and Trent in 1546. The Catholic & Orthodox Churches have decreed it scripture.

Rebuttal: If Trent was correct in declaring previous tradition wrong on the three extra books, tradition can be wrong on the others too. Since the Council of Trent actually reconvened in three or four different cities, since bubonic plague seemed to follow it, many would see Trent as a reason NOT to accept it.


Inference: Many early Christian leaders taught it as scripture. Some are: Ambrose, Augustine, Clement of Alexandria, Clement of Rome, Hippolytus, Irenaeus, Lactantius, Patrick, Sulpitius Severus, and Theodotus. Are all these men in error?

Rebuttal: Many early Christian leaders did not believe it scripture. Some are: Ambrose, Amphilochus, Athanasius, Cyril of Jerusalem, Gregory Nanzianzus, Jerome, Melito of Sardis, and Origen. The Jews Josephus and Philo also rejected it. Many others, such as Justin Martyr, wrote volumes yet never once cited it. Ambrose was contradictory. Even many for it, like Augustine, believed it inspired in a lesser way.


Proof: Since God’s true word endures, and the Apocrypha has been in some Bibles continuously for 2100 years, then none of the Apocrypha’s unique doctrines (prayers for the dead, etc.) corrupted God’s word. Since God’s revelation would be substantially different if these doctrines were excluded vs. included, and since God’s word cannot be corrupted (substantially altered), then these doctrines and the Apocrypha must be true.

Rebuttal: The Apocrypha were additions to the Bible, not corruptions of the Bible. The distinction of the Apocrypha was always known. God’s word enduring means that His truth will always be present; cultists make corrupt copies of the Bible all the time.


Bottom Line: When the church speaks, the thinking is done. Since the both the Catholic and Orthodox Churches say the Apocrypha is scripture, who are we to question the True Church with our private views?


Why Some Say It Is NOT God’s Word


Inference: The ~250 Old Testament quotes in the New Testament do not include even one quote from the Apocrypha. (even though it quotes Greek poets and pseudipegrapha), much less said it was Scripture. Everyone would accept the Apocrypha as scripture if Jesus said so. He never did.

Rebuttal: The New Testament does not quote from Esther, Ecclesiastes, or Song of Solomon either.


Inference: The Jewish Council of Jamnia in 90 AD. excluded the Apocrypha. Jesus never criticized the Pharisees for not believing in the Apocrypha.

Rebuttal: Jews, not Christians, convened at Jamnia.


Inference: Many Middle Age Christians also did not believe it was scripture. Some are: Pope Gregory the Great (1st Maccabees), Cardinal Cajetan (1469-1534) a foremost Catholic Theologian, John Wycliffe, John Calvin, Martin Luther, Ulrich Zwingli. If the Apocrypha is scripture, then all of these were in error on this point.

Rebuttal: Zwingli did not accept Revelation as scripture. Comparing the doctrinal value (not canonicity) of James, Luther said, "--these are the books which show to thee Christ, and teach everything that is necessary and blessed for thee to know, even if you were never to see or hear any other book of doctrine. Therefore, St. James’ Epistle is a perfect straw-epistle compared with them, for it has in it nothing of an evangelic kind." From Ryrie Basic Theology p.109.


Inference: The Apocrypha teaches as God’s Word things found no where else. For example:

An angel named Uriel (2 Esdras)

A good soul fell to Solomon’s lot. Wisdom 8:19, 20

The body weighs down the soul. Wisdom 9:15

Whoever honors his father atones for sins. Sirach 3:3

God is unaware the origin of some is evil. Wisd. 12:10

" That is why God gave them a chance to repent which they did not take.

To none has he [God] given power to proclaim his works;..." Sirach

Never use deceit (Sirach 25:26) vs. Deceive people for God (Judith)

Divorce if your wife does not obey you-Sirach 25:26

"for from garments comes the moth, and from a woman comes woman's wickedness. Better is the wickedness of a man than a woman who does good; and it is a woman who brings shame and disgrace." Sirach 42:14

"Wine is like life to men, if you drink it in moderation. What is life to a man who is without wine? It has been created to make men glad." (Sirach 31:27) {Does A.A. quote this often?}

"Pamper a child, and he will frighten you; play with him, and he will give you grief." Sirach 30:9

"Speak, you who are older, for it is fitting that you should, but with accurate knowledge and do not interrupt the music." Sirach 32:3

"My son, do not lead the life of a beggar; it is better to die than to beg." (and it goes on) Sirach 40:28-30.

Jeremiah, though dead, prays for Jews 2 Mac5:12-16

We should pray for the dead 2 Macc 12:44

Jeremiah took the tabernacle of the ark to a cave in the mountain Moses saw Canaan. 2 Macc 2:1-16

Other verses Sirach 42:14

Rebuttal: Maybe all Christians should believe these.


Proof: Since God’s Word is true, and the Apocrypha has the following provable falsehoods, the Apocrypha is not God’s inerrant word.

· Tobias used magic, the heart, liver, and gall of a fish, to drive away a demon. The Bible says we are not to use magic. An angel lies and claims to be Azarius son of Ananias

· Tobit 1:4-5 + 1:11-13 + 14:1-3 say Tobit saw the revolt of the northern tribes (997 BC.); he was deported to Ninevah with Naphtali (740 BC.) yet he only lived 102 years.

Judith: It is unclear where the Book was Judith was written. The at least fourteen errors in the book cover falsehoods of the people and geography of Assyria, Babylon, Persia, and even gross errors on the geography of Israel. In short, · Nebuchadnezzar was the King of Babylon; he did not rule from Ninevah, · he was not king of the Assyrians, and the Assyrians (or Babylonians) · never sacked Ecbatana or Ragae. · Assyrians and Babylonians did not rely predominately on their cavalry. · The Babylonian and Assyrian rulers wanted people to worship their gods, but not them-selves (unlike later Romans and Persians.) · The people had not returned from exile in the time of the Assyrians or Babylonians. · The Moabites and Ammonites were descendents of Lot; they were not Canaanites. · General Holofernes and his massive campaign in Palestine are unknown to history and archaeology. · a city with towers called Bethulia, on the plain of Esdraelon near Dothan, able to resist 132,000 soldiers, has not been found. · Balbaim and · Cyamon have not been found either.

The Catholic New Jerusalem Bible even says in Intro "The book of Judith in particular shows a bland indifference to history and geography."

· Mordecai taken by Nebuchadnezzar (617 BC.)

2nd year of Artaxerxes court (~130 years later). Contradicts regular part of Esther: (additions to Esther)

· Haman was an Agagite, not Macedonian. -add Esth.

· Do not remember the dead (Sirach 38:21-23) vs. pray for the dead (2 Macc 12:44)

· Baruch not really in Babylon 1:1,2 vs. Jer.43:5-7

· Baruch 6:2 says the Jews would serve Babylon for 7 generations. Jeremiah 25:11 & 29:11 says 70 years; .

· The Babylonians did not worship and feed a living dinosaur-like creature. (additions to Daniel 14:23-27)

· In 2 Macc 8:10 Nicanor wanted to pay 2,000 talents to the Romans; the Seleucids were not under the Romans.

· In 2 Macc 8:20 8K Seleucids plus 4K Macedonians did not destroy 120,000 Galatians in Babylonia.

· Minor historical discrepancies between 1 & 2 Mac.

Rebuttal: Even the Catholic Encyclopedia admits it has errors on details.

Inference: Writers of Sirach (prologue) and 2 Mac (2:24-43; 15:38-40) indicate they were not inspired.

Rebuttal: A writer might not know he was inspired.


Bottom Line: When we have to choose between a human viewpoint and the truth of God, we follow God. We, who together are the True Church, must never cease to recognize and follow God’s truth. www.BibleQuery.org.


Here are Apocryphal books early Christian writers referred to.

Cr 1 Clement (of Rome) (16 pgs) 97/98 A.D.

Ba Epistle of Barnabas (13 pgs) c.100 A.D.

Ig Ignatius (21 pgs) c.110-117 A.D.

Pa Papias disciple of John (3 pgs) 110-113 A.D.

Di Didache (Teach. of 12 Disc.)(6 pgs) < 125 A.D.

Dg (anonymous) to Diognetus (6 pgs) c.130 A.D.

Po Polycarp, disciple of John (4 pgs) c.150 A.D.

Jm Justin Martyr (119 pgs) 138-165 A.D.

He Shepherd of Hermas (47 pgs) 160 A.D.

Th Theophilus [Antioch] (33 pgs)168-181/188 A.D.

Me Melito of Sardis (11 pgs) 170-177 A.D.

Ae Athenagoras (34 pgs) c.177 A.D.

Ir Irenaeus (264 pgs) 182-188 A.D.

Te Tertullian [Rome] (854 pgs) 200-220 A.D.

Ca Clement of Alexan. (424 pgs) 193-217/220 A.D.

Hi Hippolytus, (233 pgs) 225-235/6 A.D.

Or Origen (622 pgs) 230-254 A.D.

Nv Novatian (39 pgs) 250-257 A.D.

an Anonymous against Novatian(7 pgs) c.255 A.D.

And Treatise on Rebaptism (11 pgs)

Cp Cyprian and friends (270 pgs) 248-258 A.D.

Not shown are Bardesan (154-230) [ref. to Gen] or Julius Africanus (232-245 A.D.). [Neh,Dan by name, allude Ex]

W = Books or quotes mentioned by name or by writer

G = Mentioned as words of God + quoted

B = Mentioned as scripture or quoted + "it is written"

Q = quote of 1 or more verses. ½ = quote of ½ a verse

A = Allusion. – = no reference
DNAprototype

User ID: 112626
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07/19/2006 11:58 AM
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Re: For Status quo, mainline Christians: Some prophecies you probably never read before
There is a story in the bible about the ant and the sluggard. The ant diligently prepared for winter, while the sluggard did not. Needless to say, the ant survived.

There is a joke, but in all seriousness, it's about true. I'll try to paraphrase it.

A Christian lives in a flood zone, and the waters begin to rise one day. they keep going up and up, til finally the man is on the roof of his house.

A row boat comes by, "Hey brother. Want a lift?"

The man replies, "No. I'm trusting in the Lord."

Then finally the waters keep rising, and another boat comes by:

"Come on Brother. I'll lead you to safety?"

"Nah, I'm trusting in the Lord."

The waters rise more, and a helocopter comes by:

"Come on! We'll pull you up to safety."

"Nah, I'm trusting in the Lord."

Finally the man drowns, and goes stand before God.

"God! Why didn't you save me??!!!!"

God replies, "Well, I sent you a row boat, but you declined. Then I sent you another boat, and yet you declined. Then finally I sent you a helocopter, and you declined and drown.

I can't force you to accept my gifts of safety and protection."

How true that is!

I put up my FREE Nuclear Survival Page.

[link to www7.zapto.org]

Realistically, I doubt anyone has printed out one article on them. I doubt anyone has applied the principles on them to their lives.

So what can we do? Hold a gun to you head and MAKE you prepare?

No. All I can do is put the info out, and pray you will adhere to it.

If not, my concience is clear and I dont have to answer for your blood on judgment day.

jD
 Quoting: Johnny Danger 116563


So those obscure verses you posted are my boat & helicopter? Thanks dude. REALLY Helpful.
Johnny Danger (OP)
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07/19/2006 12:02 PM
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Re: For Status quo, mainline Christians: Some prophecies you probably never read before
It is, if you know whats about to happen.

The other guys blatant rejection of apocrypha shows that he has no clue that the rosicrucian translators of the KJV TOOK those verses out, or he/she is just clueless.

jD
Anonymous Coward
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07/19/2006 12:02 PM
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Re: For Status quo, mainline Christians: Some prophecies you probably never read before
What the Bible warns about!
Not only is the Bible full of the things that make man's life complete, but it also provides us with warnings of what happens to someone who does not obey God's word. Many people think that the Bible is just one big love letter from God, and that is mostly true. What they fail to see is that the Bible also contains stern warnings from God about what will become of us, should we fail him.

The Bible warns that:

We are not to add to, or subtract from God's Word
Notice that in all three verses on the right, the inspired writer warns those reading his words that nothing should be taken away or added to the word of God. In Revelations, we learn that if we add to or take away from the things written there, the plagues of that book will be added to us as well.

We must not add to or take away from the Word of God, which is the Bible.

Deuteronomy 4:2) Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
(Proverbs 30:6) Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

(Revelations 22:18-19) (18) For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: (19) And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


Do Not Substitute Human Ideas
Here is Christ is speaking, teaching that the Pharisees worship God in vain (that is, it does them no good) because that have substituted their teachings and creeds for God's commandments. When we choose to substitute our own beliefs for God's commandments, we worship God in vain and have no hope of eternal salvation.

(Mark 7:7-9) (7) Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (8) For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. (9) And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition
DNAprototype

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07/19/2006 12:04 PM
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Re: For Status quo, mainline Christians: Some prophecies you probably never read before
Hello? The bible is a MANipulated tool of the powers that be, has been for a loooong time. Someday, your heart is gonna drop out when you realize you are Globalist Propoganda pushers.
Johnny Danger (OP)
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07/19/2006 12:06 PM
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Re: For Status quo, mainline Christians: Some prophecies you probably never read before
Wow. You sounded just like one of the guys telling No-e: "It's not going to rain No-e."

I can't help you. From the looks of it, I can't help anyone on this forum.

I can understand skepticism, but blatant rejection, I can't handle it.

But I guess if one hears the call and prepares, and is saved, then my job is done.

A true Christian will leave the 99 and go after the 1.

jD
DNAprototype

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07/19/2006 12:11 PM
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Re: For Status quo, mainline Christians: Some prophecies you probably never read before
Wow. You sounded just like one of the guys telling No-e: "It's not going to rain No-e."

I can't help you. From the looks of it, I can't help anyone on this forum.

I can understand skepticism, but blatant rejection, I can't handle it.

But I guess if one hears the call and prepares, and is saved, then my job is done.

A true Christian will leave the 99 and go after the 1.

jD
 Quoting: Johnny Danger 116563


Yes, its designed perfectly. The more truth you hear, the more it makes you think you are a Jesus like martyr & must continue on.
Johnny Danger (OP)
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07/19/2006 12:12 PM
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Re: For Status quo, mainline Christians: Some prophecies you probably never read before
Good luck dude. That's all I can say.

jD
DNAprototype

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07/19/2006 12:15 PM
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Re: For Status quo, mainline Christians: Some prophecies you probably never read before
I am not attacking you, just your message. Stop spreading the fear dude!

There is NOTHING to worry about. Despite anything that happens...you are fine. Life is infinity.
DNAprototype

User ID: 112626
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07/19/2006 12:16 PM
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Re: For Status quo, mainline Christians: Some prophecies you probably never read before
Good luck dude. That's all I can say.

jD
 Quoting: Johnny Danger 116563


Why do you have the same elitist attitude as your religion's designers?

Its the cause of all the earths wars.
Anonymous Coward
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07/19/2006 12:20 PM
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Re: For Status quo, mainline Christians: Some prophecies you probably never read before
do you really think status quo mainline christians come to glp?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 114312


LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Never

They would have never even heard of this place...and thats probably a good thing....

GLP is evil
DNAprototype

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07/19/2006 12:27 PM
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Re: For Status quo, mainline Christians: Some prophecies you probably never read before
herethere
Anonymous Coward
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07/19/2006 12:27 PM
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Re: For Status quo, mainline Christians: Some prophecies you probably never read before
God doesn't love us because we're good...he loves us because we love Him...His Bible, the only thing on this earth that He took control of...used people, his favorite ploy, to spread a message that must be looked at in its entirety in order to get the point that He is making...just because YOU think its fantasy or man written....so what.

When the time comes for you to stand before him what will be your excuse?

The message of salvation is simple....don't turn your back in it...the consequences are eternal.

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