If the 144,000 chosen to be kings in heaven are from the 12 tribes of Israel why does Rv5:7 say their from all nations?

I am not affiliated with any organization or religion.

intrigued by your statement "two sets of the 144,000'

could you elaborate further, and with sources to study?

Sure! I have been studying the Bible for over 30 yrs. and just recently ran across this. It certainly puts an end to this perceived discrepancy.

[link to gracethrufaith.com]

Interesting about the redeemed 144,000...I would think that these are the ones crying from under his throne, asking when will we be clothed in white. He stated they were many 'yet' to be martyred...and I don't believe in the rapture, it just doesn't resonate with what I have garnered in my studies. Thank you for sharing.

What will be your standing when the end comes?

Keep dreaming, you don't realize the extent to which your actions and life committed to a false, manipulated belief system has literally sealed your fate. When the division comes you will not like the "home team" who will be carrying your boarding pass, trust me. Their favorite food is ...human. You were warned.

Because the 12 tribes are now many nations...

Abraham the father of many nations... and his children as many as sand

For I will make you the father of a multitude of nations. 6"I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make nations of you, and kings will come forth from you.…

And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

Two sets of 144k? One authentic, the other counterfeit.

No.... I have not discovered this.

The chosen search for GOD until he answers them, they dont stop with man.

Only one set of 144,000. The 144,000 are the Bride of Christ. The whole church is not the bride. There are also the Guests of the Bridegroom who are the multitude in Revelation. The 144,000 is the Woman in Revelation 12. They are also the 2 witness. One witness House of Judah and the other witness the House of Israel. Her offspring the multitude will be hunted down. The 144,000 will have a seal that protects them for a 3.5 years but then they will also be hunted down and rise with Christ. They are the first fruits. Many want to be the 144,000 but reading the 10 virgins only half will be ready and have the annointing of the Holy Spirit (Oil).

Revelation 12:17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

Luke 5:34 Jesus answered, Can you make the friends of the bridegroom fast while he is with them? 35But the time will come when the bridegroom will be taken from them; in those days they will fast.

John 3:29 The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend who attends the bridegroom waits and listens for him, and is full of joy when he hears the bridegroom’s voice.

I don't know what you are suggesting of two sets of "144k" but I have discovered, and uncovered a counterfeiting of the 144k. Keep in mind that the devil has created a counterfeit for every detail of God, and there are images to show how they are using the image.

Just a few hints to show this because it's really complex: President Obama is the first black Prez and this contrast is addressing the "two witnesses" as also, Barack and his wife form this image, as well.

The "First Lady" dons the number "1", and her husband, Barack is the 44th President; together they create the image of "144" by adding him and her side by side in matrimony, they look like this: 1+44=144.

1,144 delegates are required for a Presidential candidate to be elected. Here's the image of the First Lady in charge over the congressional law makers, and it is she who manipulates the elections.

There's much more but I rest here. Thanks for reading.

I can agree with this less a few more details that give further interpretation of the two witnesses, and how the multitude is hunted down. This story is paralleled in western movie stories where the cowboys round up cattle or horses, and drive them home to be sold or broken first and then sold.

The first fruits are men, and men only as it are the women who have become the beast and need to be captured and broken like wild horses and their stallion. This picture is depicting the women running amok with Satan leading them, and he is the one making babies.

It's a complex story with enormous parallel's that are also miniaturized in parallel's such as a western story centered on one family or Rancher who in some movies is plundered by cattle and horse thieves, and he goes out to recapture what was stolen from him, and this is a parallel to God taking back what Satan steals from Him.

There are apparently a multitude of parallel's for the two witnesses, and Barack Obama also forms a contrast for this image as the difference between darkness and Light. Man and woman are also the main objects of this witnessing system, and the Law of God is what keeps a Godly and equal balance in the system even though they are different proportions such as the man have the image of "6" while the woman have the image of "1" when she is "alone" or all-one, which means that she was broken out from another sum and broken down to a "1".

1 Corinthians 11 King James Version (KJV)

11 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.

5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

8 For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.

9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.

12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?

14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

17 Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse.

18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.

19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.

22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? what shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

33 Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.

34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.

I'll rest here. Thank you for reading

"The 12 tribes are scattered throughout the world."

The most common explanation, which of course does not make any sense because the scriptures old and new testament are metaphors. Now with that in mind, including the number itself, 144 000, what is being said?

What does Is Ra El mean as a metaphor? Who are the Israelites? And what is a 9?

Last Edited by Sungaze_At_Dawn on 11/17/2014 09:40 AM

IMHO, you have been studying the Bible for about 30 years the wrong way. The numbers are symbolic, and nothing is literal as all prophecies are written in metaphoric languages that all speak of the same last-day so how can this be where all of the prophets have spoken of the last-day, albeit their prophecies are so diverse in descriptions?

It's because there is a "Key" to understand the "identities" of these people, and the numbers must be symbolic so to be rightly divided by using Genesis code which has been corrupted and made useless, today but I have discovered the authentic Genesis code and it is used even in movies, and TV commercials, as well as all things around us. There are signs to interpret.

If the 144k are a literal number then, so should the 10 virgins be a literal number, and I don't believe that there will be only 5 people who make it to the altar for the wedding. If God were to save only 5 people, or even just 10 is absurd to consider when God's desire is to save the entire world if they be willing.

Who then is doing the counting of the 144k, and the ten virgins, etc.?

I cannot agree with your conclusion, sorry.

It is the most common explanation, because that is what the bible says. They were scattered to every area of the world.

Yes He fulfilled the law and summed up the 10 commandments ; love God and love fellow man. Some of the commandments are about sins against God and the others are about sins against fellow man... are you Jewish ? If not the law is not for you. The ten commandments are there to show us how sinfull we are. Laws are for lawless ppl. But when we repent ( which means to change the way you think about something) we no longer need the law because we want to do what's right.
Hope this helps someone

This is a false teaching.
Paul was telling them not to let the pagans and false teachers judge you (Christians) because you do as God told you to do, keeping Gods commandments and Holy days.

It was about how pagans and false teachers would go after Christians because they followed and kept the ways of the Old Testament.

Basically it is a verse warning Christians about people like you.

The 144,000 are from the Old Covenant, the multitude from the New Covenant. Jesus is the redeemer of both groups.

Chapter 5 is referring to the whole but chapter 7 is speaking to each group in succession. You've got your citations a bit messed up:

(Rv5:7 in the title s/b Rv7:9)
(Rv7:9 in the message s/b Rv5:9)

Isaiah 54
1 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.
2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;
3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.
4 Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.
5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

It's simple. The 12 tribes were scattered throughout all nations, and will one day be brought back together.

And they must be followers of Jesus Christ. So they cannot be literal Jews. They must be Christian.

It is said that those who are going to heaven have been chosen since Jesus' death and most likely up to our own day. So all are not part of the JW religion. I would think though that God would choose those who keep their worship undefiled. And most Christians these days are pagan Christians. Look at their worship.

JW's, although unpopular, do follow the Bible the way it should be followed and keep pagan beliefs out of their worship. I would have no problem believing that some of those who go to heaven have been/will be some JW's. Remember that the majority of JW's believe they will continue living on this earth(which will be made into a paradise) and have no desire to go to heaven because it is God who decides who goes. The person doesn't.

So there is a strong desire for a paradise. Most people who believe they are going to heaven describe it like a paradise on earth. That is not heaven. That is the earth they are seeing in their mind's eye. According to the Bible, humans were supposed to live on earth. Not go to heaven. But because of Adam and Eve's sin priests and kings were needed to judge over the earth. Hence a small number go to heaven to rule with Jesus. The rest will be on earth.

Had Adam and Eve not sinned no human would have ever died and gone to heaven and none of us would be having this discussion. We would all be perfect and living on a paradise earth.

He never has and He never will.

The 144,000 begs the question: where are the other 9,000?

Where is the tribe of Dan?

Jesus told of the woman who goes looking for her lost silver tithe. Her son took it and he returns it to her. She gives him back 200 of the 1100 to make an idol which becomes the idol of Dan.

The 1100 represented one tenth of the fortune- 11000.

The 900 silver shekels remaining were spared the fate of becoming part of Dan's sin.

So 9000 lost of Dan will be found.

Although they will never become part of Israel, they will serve Jesus.

So there will be 153,000.

Peter caught 153 fish in his net.

It was prophetic and it has been hidden in scripture.

the 144,000 are from 12 tribes of israel. due to common traveling and moving to other countries and nations they are spread out across the world in all nations...get it?

No most do NOT "get it". Israel (Jacob) had 12 sons hence 12 tribes, Judah the Jews are only ONE tribe, so most of Israel is NOT Jewish. Israel is spread out over the earth. The Jews are ONE small tribe and NOT part of Israel since Solomon died and will not be until the Lord comes again.

Christ BECAME our Sabbath

and/or was supposed to

seems the many aren't yet clear on that fact

bottom line truth being that if one is not resting in Christ they will find no rest herein

and they should be Sabbathing with the Lord every single day of the week, not just some/one

guess it's just too simple, they'd have to give up another of their many excuses to rail, one against another, rather than unifying in accord with those things upon which they have been able to AGREE

they are seeking to fulfill the letter of the law rather than the truth, which can only be made perfect in SPIRIT

No....I don't
"Therefore because he was exalted to the right hand of God and received the promised holy spirit from the Father, he has poured out this which YOU see and hear. 34 Actually David did not ascend to the heavens, but he himself says, ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand, 35 until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”’ 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know for a certainty that God made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom YOU impaled.” Ac2:33

Because once a heathen turns form his ways and follow God he becomes an Israelite and is adopted into a tribe, so in general they are form other nations but they left their nations to become Israel and to obey the God of Israel.