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GREECE THREAD: BREAKING: EURO AREA FINANCE MINISTERS SAID TO MULL EU8.5B GREEK TRANCHE!!!p.865

 
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Re: GREECE THREAD: BREAKING: EURO AREA FINANCE MINISTERS SAID TO MULL EU8.5B GREEK TRANCHE!!!p.865
So the shtf scenario could be in about two weeks?? About the same time that Jade Helm starts?? hiding
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Re: GREECE THREAD: BREAKING: EURO AREA FINANCE MINISTERS SAID TO MULL EU8.5B GREEK TRANCHE!!!p.865
Gregor Peter ‏@L0gg0l 1m1 minute ago
Greece IMF default triggers cross-default-clauses on EUR 131 billion in EFSF bonds triggering CDS 1/2



LEGIT???

so the CDS will be triggered?? confused
 Quoting: FunkY


If Greece defaults on it's IMF Loan or a Bond Payment, all debt associated with the Bailouts becomes callable...

That is why the IMF used the word "Arrears" rather than "Default". I don't imagine they'll attempt to trigger that clause until the fate of the Referendum is decided...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Even after the vote the default will not trigger the CDS avalanche. The sellers and managers of these derivatives claim the IMF debt is a bilateral loan and the default is voluntary, therefore not a real default. This should kill the derivatives market but it won't, because these CDSs were never meant to pay out only to be used as collateral. Is there something I'm missing, because the only way I see Greece toppling this house of cards is if this crisis leads to other European countries refusing to pay their debts.
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Re: GREECE THREAD: BREAKING: EURO AREA FINANCE MINISTERS SAID TO MULL EU8.5B GREEK TRANCHE!!!p.865
It took a Marxist, not a neocon or neoliberal to tell the banks to fuck off.

That's my kind.

You're welcome.

5a
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Re: GREECE THREAD: BREAKING: EURO AREA FINANCE MINISTERS SAID TO MULL EU8.5B GREEK TRANCHE!!!p.865
Gregor Peter ‏@L0gg0l 1m1 minute ago
Greece IMF default triggers cross-default-clauses on EUR 131 billion in EFSF bonds triggering CDS 1/2



LEGIT???

so the CDS will be triggered?? confused
 Quoting: FunkY


If Greece defaults on it's IMF Loan or a Bond Payment, all debt associated with the Bailouts becomes callable...

That is why the IMF used the word "Arrears" rather than "Default". I don't imagine they'll attempt to trigger that clause until the fate of the Referendum is decided...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Even after the vote the default will not trigger the CDS avalanche. The sellers and managers of these derivatives claim the IMF debt is a bilateral loan and the default is voluntary, therefore not a real default. This should kill the derivatives market but it won't, because these CDSs were never meant to pay out only to be used as collateral. Is there something I'm missing, because the only way I see Greece toppling this house of cards is if this crisis leads to other European countries refusing to pay their debts.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19973606


There are no CDS or CDO on the IMF loan because it is a Bilateral Agreement, BUT in the Bail Out Program Greece Agreed that if it missed any payment on any loan or bond associated with the Bail Out Program then all LOANS AND BONDS COULD BECOME CALLABLE at the discretion of the EFSF...

So while the IMF Loan itself wouldn't trigger CDS or CDO's, should the EFSF choose to avail itself of the clause in the Bail Out Agreement and call ALL of Greek Debt associated with the Bail Out Program, THAT WOULD TRIGGER CDS and CDO CALLS AS WELL since Greece would obviously not be able to pay off all the Bonds that would be called in this case...

Bonds that ARE covered with CDO's and CDS's...

In short, default on the IMF Loan doesn't necessarily cause a Call of CDO's and CDS's, but it gives the ESFS the ability to create a situation that would cause the Call of ALL CDO's and CDS's Associated with Greek Bonds!!!

Last Edited by Saddletramp on 06/30/2015 07:55 PM
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

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Re: GREECE THREAD: BREAKING: EURO AREA FINANCE MINISTERS SAID TO MULL EU8.5B GREEK TRANCHE!!!p.865
Gregor Peter ‏@L0gg0l 1m1 minute ago
Greece IMF default triggers cross-default-clauses on EUR 131 billion in EFSF bonds triggering CDS 1/2



LEGIT???

so the CDS will be triggered?? confused
 Quoting: FunkY


If Greece defaults on it's IMF Loan or a Bond Payment, all debt associated with the Bailouts becomes callable...

That is why the IMF used the word "Arrears" rather than "Default". I don't imagine they'll attempt to trigger that clause until the fate of the Referendum is decided...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Even after the vote the default will not trigger the CDS avalanche. The sellers and managers of these derivatives claim the IMF debt is a bilateral loan and the default is voluntary, therefore not a real default. This should kill the derivatives market but it won't, because these CDSs were never meant to pay out only to be used as collateral. Is there something I'm missing, because the only way I see Greece toppling this house of cards is if this crisis leads to other European countries refusing to pay their debts.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19973606


If you are in the same condition and you've seen Iceland and now greece tell the world they want to be left alone, you are going to think you should do the same.
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Re: GREECE THREAD: BREAKING: EURO AREA FINANCE MINISTERS SAID TO MULL EU8.5B GREEK TRANCHE!!!p.865
WHO CARES ABOUT GREECE, ISIS AND THE CHARLESTON MASSACRE WHEN THIS IS HAPPENING IN THE WORLD

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Re: GREECE THREAD: BREAKING: EURO AREA FINANCE MINISTERS SAID TO MULL EU8.5B GREEK TRANCHE!!!p.865
Doom OFF scenario:

IMF doesn't actually call it a default.
The people vote FOR the bailout (very likely according to oddsmakers)
The charade continues.

This has a high probability of happening, unfortunately.
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Re: GREECE THREAD: BREAKING: EURO AREA FINANCE MINISTERS SAID TO MULL EU8.5B GREEK TRANCHE!!!p.865
Gregor Peter ‏@L0gg0l 1m1 minute ago
Greece IMF default triggers cross-default-clauses on EUR 131 billion in EFSF bonds triggering CDS 1/2



LEGIT???

so the CDS will be triggered?? confused
 Quoting: FunkY


If Greece defaults on it's IMF Loan or a Bond Payment, all debt associated with the Bailouts becomes callable...

That is why the IMF used the word "Arrears" rather than "Default". I don't imagine they'll attempt to trigger that clause until the fate of the Referendum is decided...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Even after the vote the default will not trigger the CDS avalanche. The sellers and managers of these derivatives claim the IMF debt is a bilateral loan and the default is voluntary, therefore not a real default. This should kill the derivatives market but it won't, because these CDSs were never meant to pay out only to be used as collateral. Is there something I'm missing, because the only way I see Greece toppling this house of cards is if this crisis leads to other European countries refusing to pay their debts.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19973606


There are no CDS or CDO on the IMF loan because it is a Bilateral Agreement, BUT in the Bail Out Program Greece Agreed that if it missed any payment on any loan or bond associated with the Bail Out Program then all LOANS AND BONDS COULD BECOME CALLABLE at the discretion of the EFSF...

So while the IMF Loan itself wouldn't trigger CDS or CDO's, should the EFSF choose to avail itself of the clause in the Bail Out Agreement and call ALL of Greek Debt associated with the Bail Out Program, THAT WOULD TRIGGER CDS and CDO CALLS AS WELL since Greece would obviously not be able to pay off all the Bonds that would be called in this case...

Bonds that ARE covered with CDO's and CDS's...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


About ten years ago we had zeros from a protectorate that were "non callable" called. Now that the protectorate is saying they may be insolvent I'm kinda glad I got out of that one.
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Re: GREECE THREAD: BREAKING: EURO AREA FINANCE MINISTERS SAID TO MULL EU8.5B GREEK TRANCHE!!!p.865
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Re: GREECE THREAD: BREAKING: EURO AREA FINANCE MINISTERS SAID TO MULL EU8.5B GREEK TRANCHE!!!p.865
Greece IMF default triggers cross-default-clauses on EUR 131 billion in EFSF bonds triggering CDS 1/2
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 67285741


IF The IMF considers this a Default, which is why they're using the word "Arrears" right now...

Everyone is gonna wait for the Referendum before all hell breaks loose...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


This means we gotta wait for the referendoom?
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Re: GREECE THREAD: BREAKING: EURO AREA FINANCE MINISTERS SAID TO MULL EU8.5B GREEK TRANCHE!!!p.865
Greece IMF default triggers cross-default-clauses on EUR 131 billion in EFSF bonds triggering CDS 1/2
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 67285741


IF The IMF considers this a Default, which is why they're using the word "Arrears" right now...

Everyone is gonna wait for the Referendum before all hell breaks loose...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


This means we gotta wait for the referendoom?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18749851


Yeah, I don't think anyone Wants to start this shit storm in the Derivative Markets if they don't have too...

So they'll wait and see how the Greek People Vote...
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."

"We don't rent pigs!"
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Re: GREECE THREAD: BREAKING: EURO AREA FINANCE MINISTERS SAID TO MULL EU8.5B GREEK TRANCHE!!!p.865
Greece IMF default triggers cross-default-clauses on EUR 131 billion in EFSF bonds triggering CDS 1/2
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 67285741


IF The IMF considers this a Default, which is why they're using the word "Arrears" right now...

Everyone is gonna wait for the Referendum before all hell breaks loose...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


This means we gotta wait for the referendoom?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18749851


Yeah, I don't think anyone Wants to start this shit storm in the Derivative Markets if they don't have too...

So they'll wait and see how the Greek People Vote...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


oddsmakers give "NO" vote about a 25% chance...so i guess us doomtards are gonna have to hit tails on consecutive coin tosses, if they're right that is.
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Re: GREECE THREAD: BREAKING: EURO AREA FINANCE MINISTERS SAID TO MULL EU8.5B GREEK TRANCHE!!!p.865
Doom OFF scenario:

IMF doesn't actually call it a default.
The people vote FOR the bailout (very likely according to oddsmakers)
The charade continues.

This has a high probability of happening, unfortunately.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9382371


It feels as though the entire world is holding their breathe but wants a greek default followed by the remaining pigs. Like they don't know what they want but they don't want what's been going on all these years, they want it fixed, they want a new way that doesn't involve overwhelming debt.
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Re: GREECE THREAD: BREAKING: EURO AREA FINANCE MINISTERS SAID TO MULL EU8.5B GREEK TRANCHE!!!p.865
Developed country can't pay 1.8 billion? What's wrong with that? Smells fishy.
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Re: GREECE THREAD: BREAKING: EURO AREA FINANCE MINISTERS SAID TO MULL EU8.5B GREEK TRANCHE!!!p.865
Russia Opens Door To Greece As Sixth Member Of New BRICS World Bank: Russian Oil Makes Athens Europe’s Energy Hub!

Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras on Monday held a telephone conversation with Russian Deputy Finance Minister Sergei Storchak. During the conversation, Storchak invited Greece to become the sixth member of the New Development Bank of BRICS countries, Greece’s Syriza party reported on its website. Storchak is a representative of the BRICS Bank which is now being established.

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Re: GREECE THREAD: BREAKING: EURO AREA FINANCE MINISTERS SAID TO MULL EU8.5B GREEK TRANCHE!!!p.865
Gregor Peter ‏@L0gg0l 1m1 minute ago
Greece IMF default triggers cross-default-clauses on EUR 131 billion in EFSF bonds triggering CDS 1/2



LEGIT???

so the CDS will be triggered?? confused
 Quoting: FunkY


If Greece defaults on it's IMF Loan or a Bond Payment, all debt associated with the Bailouts becomes callable...

That is why the IMF used the word "Arrears" rather than "Default". I don't imagine they'll attempt to trigger that clause until the fate of the Referendum is decided...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Even after the vote the default will not trigger the CDS avalanche. The sellers and managers of these derivatives claim the IMF debt is a bilateral loan and the default is voluntary, therefore not a real default. This should kill the derivatives market but it won't, because these CDSs were never meant to pay out only to be used as collateral. Is there something I'm missing, because the only way I see Greece toppling this house of cards is if this crisis leads to other European countries refusing to pay their debts.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19973606


There are no CDS or CDO on the IMF loan because it is a Bilateral Agreement, BUT in the Bail Out Program Greece Agreed that if it missed any payment on any loan or bond associated with the Bail Out Program then all LOANS AND BONDS COULD BECOME CALLABLE at the discretion of the EFSF...

So while the IMF Loan itself wouldn't trigger CDS or CDO's, should the EFSF choose to avail itself of the clause in the Bail Out Agreement and call ALL of Greek Debt associated with the Bail Out Program, THAT WOULD TRIGGER CDS and CDO CALLS AS WELL since Greece would obviously not be able to pay off all the Bonds that would be called in this case...

Bonds that ARE covered with CDO's and CDS's...

In short, default on the IMF Loan doesn't necessarily cause a Call of CDO's and CDS's, but it gives the ESFS the ability to create a situation that would cause the Call of ALL CDO's and CDS's Associated with Greek Bonds!!!
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Uh, wouldn't this be kinda suicidal for the EU? I can't make any sense outta this shit anymore. No deadline is really a deadline, no doom is really doom until we all fall asleep after panic sex and then it's BOOM? Is that kinda how it is?
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Re: GREECE THREAD: BREAKING: EURO AREA FINANCE MINISTERS SAID TO MULL EU8.5B GREEK TRANCHE!!!p.865
How will this impact me?
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Re: GREECE THREAD: BREAKING: EURO AREA FINANCE MINISTERS SAID TO MULL EU8.5B GREEK TRANCHE!!!p.865
...


IF The IMF considers this a Default, which is why they're using the word "Arrears" right now...

Everyone is gonna wait for the Referendum before all hell breaks loose...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


This means we gotta wait for the referendoom?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18749851


Yeah, I don't think anyone Wants to start this shit storm in the Derivative Markets if they don't have too...

So they'll wait and see how the Greek People Vote...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


oddsmakers give "NO" vote about a 25% chance...so i guess us doomtards are gonna have to hit tails on consecutive coin tosses, if they're right that is.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9382371


I dunno, the ECB forcing the closing of the Greek Banks may have a backlash effect that could be very unpredictable...

I guess we're gonna find out. I would say under ordinary circumstances a Yes vote would be heavily favored...
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."

"We don't rent pigs!"
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Re: GREECE THREAD: BREAKING: EURO AREA FINANCE MINISTERS SAID TO MULL EU8.5B GREEK TRANCHE!!!p.865
Greece IMF default triggers cross-default-clauses on EUR 131 billion in EFSF bonds triggering CDS 1/2
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 67285741


IF The IMF considers this a Default, which is why they're using the word "Arrears" right now...

Everyone is gonna wait for the Referendum before all hell breaks loose...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


This means we gotta wait for the referendoom?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18749851


Yeah, I don't think anyone Wants to start this shit storm in the Derivative Markets if they don't have too...

So they'll wait and see how the Greek People Vote...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Good sir, I simply cannot go back to 'fags and flags' after this kinda build up. It's simply not done . . . just like this endless scenario.

All the same, thanks for your endless patience in explaining it to us groundlings.
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Re: GREECE THREAD: BREAKING: EURO AREA FINANCE MINISTERS SAID TO MULL EU8.5B GREEK TRANCHE!!!p.865
Developed country can't pay 1.8 billion? What's wrong with that? Smells fishy.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69650056


Maybe they should try and come up with "out of the box solutions" to the worldwide debt problem. Like maybe take a couple of zeros off everyone's debt, all at once.

Make Greece pay $1.80 and call it a day. What they have been doing hasn't been working for the whole world, they've got to think out of the box or this will just keep happening and getting worse.
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Re: GREECE THREAD: BREAKING: EURO AREA FINANCE MINISTERS SAID TO MULL EU8.5B GREEK TRANCHE!!!p.865
Gregor Peter ‏@L0gg0l 1m1 minute ago
Greece IMF default triggers cross-default-clauses on EUR 131 billion in EFSF bonds triggering CDS 1/2



LEGIT???

so the CDS will be triggered?? confused
 Quoting: FunkY


If Greece defaults on it's IMF Loan or a Bond Payment, all debt associated with the Bailouts becomes callable...

That is why the IMF used the word "Arrears" rather than "Default". I don't imagine they'll attempt to trigger that clause until the fate of the Referendum is decided...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Even after the vote the default will not trigger the CDS avalanche. The sellers and managers of these derivatives claim the IMF debt is a bilateral loan and the default is voluntary, therefore not a real default. This should kill the derivatives market but it won't, because these CDSs were never meant to pay out only to be used as collateral. Is there something I'm missing, because the only way I see Greece toppling this house of cards is if this crisis leads to other European countries refusing to pay their debts.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19973606


There are no CDS or CDO on the IMF loan because it is a Bilateral Agreement, BUT in the Bail Out Program Greece Agreed that if it missed any payment on any loan or bond associated with the Bail Out Program then all LOANS AND BONDS COULD BECOME CALLABLE at the discretion of the EFSF...

So while the IMF Loan itself wouldn't trigger CDS or CDO's, should the EFSF choose to avail itself of the clause in the Bail Out Agreement and call ALL of Greek Debt associated with the Bail Out Program, THAT WOULD TRIGGER CDS and CDO CALLS AS WELL since Greece would obviously not be able to pay off all the Bonds that would be called in this case...

Bonds that ARE covered with CDO's and CDS's...

In short, default on the IMF Loan doesn't necessarily cause a Call of CDO's and CDS's, but it gives the ESFS the ability to create a situation that would cause the Call of ALL CDO's and CDS's Associated with Greek Bonds!!!
 Quoting: Saddletramp


OK so the IMF loan is part of a bailout package and once it is in default it will violate the entire agreement leading to other defaults that involve CDS and CDOs right? Thank you.
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Re: GREECE THREAD: BREAKING: EURO AREA FINANCE MINISTERS SAID TO MULL EU8.5B GREEK TRANCHE!!!p.865
Developed country can't pay 1.8 billion? What's wrong with that? Smells fishy.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69650056


They've been getting hoovered for a long, long time. If the stuff I've been reading is right, about 80% of the bailout money went to the creditors and not Greece.
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Re: GREECE THREAD: BREAKING: EURO AREA FINANCE MINISTERS SAID TO MULL EU8.5B GREEK TRANCHE!!!p.865
[link to www.tovima.gr]

"Sources report that the European Central Bank will act without delay,...and carry out a major haircut of the value of guarantees offered by Greek banks for refinancing purposes.

Essentially our Banks will have limited funding options; they will be deemed to be lacking the necessary capital and will collapse in a few days.

They will not be in the position to cover the 60-euro daily withdrawal limit. Already the Ministry of Finances has recognized that it cannot make the 240 euro payments to pensioners and has restricted it to 120 euros,...

Unfortunately those responsible ...do not realize, not even now, the critical nature of circumstances and do not comprehend the extent of the imminent national catastrophe.
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Re: GREECE THREAD: BREAKING: EURO AREA FINANCE MINISTERS SAID TO MULL EU8.5B GREEK TRANCHE!!!p.865
How will this impact me?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19274052


It's the end of the world as you know, but you'll feel fine.
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Re: GREECE THREAD: BREAKING: EURO AREA FINANCE MINISTERS SAID TO MULL EU8.5B GREEK TRANCHE!!!p.865
How will this impact me?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19274052


It's the end of the world as you know, but you'll feel fine.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18749851


I disagree. The world is full of intelligent people, they need to figure something out and fast. Maybe there is a simplistic answer that no one is looking for, but, either way it seems their going to learn what happens in a default. So, it's worth everyone's while to put their head's together and figure something out.
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Re: GREECE THREAD: BREAKING: EURO AREA FINANCE MINISTERS SAID TO MULL EU8.5B GREEK TRANCHE!!!p.865
How will this impact me?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19274052


Here, Angela Merkel explains it all...


"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."

"We don't rent pigs!"
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Re: GREECE THREAD: BREAKING: EURO AREA FINANCE MINISTERS SAID TO MULL EU8.5B GREEK TRANCHE!!!p.865
Bruno Waterfield @BrunoBrussels
No new bailout while @tsipras_eu & @yanisvaroufakis remain power, says senior German conservative


Wow
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Re: GREECE THREAD: BREAKING: EURO AREA FINANCE MINISTERS SAID TO MULL EU8.5B GREEK TRANCHE!!!p.865
Bruno Waterfield @BrunoBrussels
No new bailout while @tsipras_eu & @yanisvaroufakis remain power, says senior German conservative


Wow
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69650056


spock
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."

"We don't rent pigs!"
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Re: GREECE THREAD: BREAKING: EURO AREA FINANCE MINISTERS SAID TO MULL EU8.5B GREEK TRANCHE!!!p.865
[link to www.tovima.gr]

"Sources report that the European Central Bank will act without delay,...and carry out a major haircut of the value of guarantees offered by Greek banks for refinancing purposes.

Essentially our Banks will have limited funding options; they will be deemed to be lacking the necessary capital and will collapse in a few days.

They will not be in the position to cover the 60-euro daily withdrawal limit. Already the Ministry of Finances has recognized that it cannot make the 240 euro payments to pensioners and has restricted it to 120 euros,...

Unfortunately those responsible ...do not realize, not even now, the critical nature of circumstances and do not comprehend the extent of the imminent national catastrophe.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69645125


If they start printing drachmas maybe the banks will be fine.
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Re: GREECE THREAD: BREAKING: EURO AREA FINANCE MINISTERS SAID TO MULL EU8.5B GREEK TRANCHE!!!p.865
Greek Rebel News @GreekRebelNews
Troika's Message To Europe; The EU Is Not A #Democracy. You Have No Sovereignty & There's No Way Out. #GREECE #OXI





GLP