GREECE THREAD: BREAKING: EURO AREA FINANCE MINISTERS SAID TO MULL EU8.5B GREEK TRANCHE!!!p.865 | |
BamaGirl73 User ID: 67749646 United States 06/30/2015 07:41 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So the shtf scenario could be in about two weeks?? About the same time that Jade Helm starts?? I believe in God, guns and Old Glory. If that offends you, I won't say I'm sorry. "My home's in Alabama...Southern born and Southern bred." If you put a candy wrapper on poison and give it to the sheep, they will eat it with a smile on their faces. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 19973606 United States 06/30/2015 07:45 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Gregor Peter ‏@L0gg0l 1m1 minute ago Quoting: FunkY Greece IMF default triggers cross-default-clauses on EUR 131 billion in EFSF bonds triggering CDS 1/2 LEGIT??? so the CDS will be triggered?? confused If Greece defaults on it's IMF Loan or a Bond Payment, all debt associated with the Bailouts becomes callable... That is why the IMF used the word "Arrears" rather than "Default". I don't imagine they'll attempt to trigger that clause until the fate of the Referendum is decided... Even after the vote the default will not trigger the CDS avalanche. The sellers and managers of these derivatives claim the IMF debt is a bilateral loan and the default is voluntary, therefore not a real default. This should kill the derivatives market but it won't, because these CDSs were never meant to pay out only to be used as collateral. Is there something I'm missing, because the only way I see Greece toppling this house of cards is if this crisis leads to other European countries refusing to pay their debts. |
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Saddletramp User ID: 68373023 United States 06/30/2015 07:50 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Gregor Peter ‏@L0gg0l 1m1 minute ago Quoting: FunkY Greece IMF default triggers cross-default-clauses on EUR 131 billion in EFSF bonds triggering CDS 1/2 LEGIT??? so the CDS will be triggered?? confused If Greece defaults on it's IMF Loan or a Bond Payment, all debt associated with the Bailouts becomes callable... That is why the IMF used the word "Arrears" rather than "Default". I don't imagine they'll attempt to trigger that clause until the fate of the Referendum is decided... Even after the vote the default will not trigger the CDS avalanche. The sellers and managers of these derivatives claim the IMF debt is a bilateral loan and the default is voluntary, therefore not a real default. This should kill the derivatives market but it won't, because these CDSs were never meant to pay out only to be used as collateral. Is there something I'm missing, because the only way I see Greece toppling this house of cards is if this crisis leads to other European countries refusing to pay their debts. There are no CDS or CDO on the IMF loan because it is a Bilateral Agreement, BUT in the Bail Out Program Greece Agreed that if it missed any payment on any loan or bond associated with the Bail Out Program then all LOANS AND BONDS COULD BECOME CALLABLE at the discretion of the EFSF... So while the IMF Loan itself wouldn't trigger CDS or CDO's, should the EFSF choose to avail itself of the clause in the Bail Out Agreement and call ALL of Greek Debt associated with the Bail Out Program, THAT WOULD TRIGGER CDS and CDO CALLS AS WELL since Greece would obviously not be able to pay off all the Bonds that would be called in this case... Bonds that ARE covered with CDO's and CDS's... In short, default on the IMF Loan doesn't necessarily cause a Call of CDO's and CDS's, but it gives the ESFS the ability to create a situation that would cause the Call of ALL CDO's and CDS's Associated with Greek Bonds!!! Last Edited by Saddletramp on 06/30/2015 07:55 PM "And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius "Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..." "We don't rent pigs!" |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 69598983 United States 06/30/2015 07:50 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Gregor Peter ‏@L0gg0l 1m1 minute ago Quoting: FunkY Greece IMF default triggers cross-default-clauses on EUR 131 billion in EFSF bonds triggering CDS 1/2 LEGIT??? so the CDS will be triggered?? confused If Greece defaults on it's IMF Loan or a Bond Payment, all debt associated with the Bailouts becomes callable... That is why the IMF used the word "Arrears" rather than "Default". I don't imagine they'll attempt to trigger that clause until the fate of the Referendum is decided... Even after the vote the default will not trigger the CDS avalanche. The sellers and managers of these derivatives claim the IMF debt is a bilateral loan and the default is voluntary, therefore not a real default. This should kill the derivatives market but it won't, because these CDSs were never meant to pay out only to be used as collateral. Is there something I'm missing, because the only way I see Greece toppling this house of cards is if this crisis leads to other European countries refusing to pay their debts. If you are in the same condition and you've seen Iceland and now greece tell the world they want to be left alone, you are going to think you should do the same. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 69650056 United States 06/30/2015 07:51 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | WHO CARES ABOUT GREECE, ISIS AND THE CHARLESTON MASSACRE WHEN THIS IS HAPPENING IN THE WORLD [link to mobile.twitter.com (secure)] |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 9382371 United States 06/30/2015 07:52 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Doom OFF scenario: IMF doesn't actually call it a default. The people vote FOR the bailout (very likely according to oddsmakers) The charade continues. This has a high probability of happening, unfortunately. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 69598983 United States 06/30/2015 07:53 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Gregor Peter ‏@L0gg0l 1m1 minute ago Quoting: FunkY Greece IMF default triggers cross-default-clauses on EUR 131 billion in EFSF bonds triggering CDS 1/2 LEGIT??? so the CDS will be triggered?? confused If Greece defaults on it's IMF Loan or a Bond Payment, all debt associated with the Bailouts becomes callable... That is why the IMF used the word "Arrears" rather than "Default". I don't imagine they'll attempt to trigger that clause until the fate of the Referendum is decided... Even after the vote the default will not trigger the CDS avalanche. The sellers and managers of these derivatives claim the IMF debt is a bilateral loan and the default is voluntary, therefore not a real default. This should kill the derivatives market but it won't, because these CDSs were never meant to pay out only to be used as collateral. Is there something I'm missing, because the only way I see Greece toppling this house of cards is if this crisis leads to other European countries refusing to pay their debts. There are no CDS or CDO on the IMF loan because it is a Bilateral Agreement, BUT in the Bail Out Program Greece Agreed that if it missed any payment on any loan or bond associated with the Bail Out Program then all LOANS AND BONDS COULD BECOME CALLABLE at the discretion of the EFSF... So while the IMF Loan itself wouldn't trigger CDS or CDO's, should the EFSF choose to avail itself of the clause in the Bail Out Agreement and call ALL of Greek Debt associated with the Bail Out Program, THAT WOULD TRIGGER CDS and CDO CALLS AS WELL since Greece would obviously not be able to pay off all the Bonds that would be called in this case... Bonds that ARE covered with CDO's and CDS's... About ten years ago we had zeros from a protectorate that were "non callable" called. Now that the protectorate is saying they may be insolvent I'm kinda glad I got out of that one. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 69650056 United States 06/30/2015 07:53 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | johanna jaufer @ johannajaufer Greek FinMin signs 50% reduction in debt for Germany in 1954 [link to mobile.twitter.com (secure)] |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 18749851 United States 06/30/2015 07:54 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Greece IMF default triggers cross-default-clauses on EUR 131 billion in EFSF bonds triggering CDS 1/2 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 67285741 IF The IMF considers this a Default, which is why they're using the word "Arrears" right now... Everyone is gonna wait for the Referendum before all hell breaks loose... This means we gotta wait for the referendoom? |
Saddletramp User ID: 68373023 United States 06/30/2015 07:57 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Greece IMF default triggers cross-default-clauses on EUR 131 billion in EFSF bonds triggering CDS 1/2 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 67285741 IF The IMF considers this a Default, which is why they're using the word "Arrears" right now... Everyone is gonna wait for the Referendum before all hell breaks loose... This means we gotta wait for the referendoom? Yeah, I don't think anyone Wants to start this shit storm in the Derivative Markets if they don't have too... So they'll wait and see how the Greek People Vote... "And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius "Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..." "We don't rent pigs!" |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 9382371 United States 06/30/2015 07:59 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Greece IMF default triggers cross-default-clauses on EUR 131 billion in EFSF bonds triggering CDS 1/2 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 67285741 IF The IMF considers this a Default, which is why they're using the word "Arrears" right now... Everyone is gonna wait for the Referendum before all hell breaks loose... This means we gotta wait for the referendoom? Yeah, I don't think anyone Wants to start this shit storm in the Derivative Markets if they don't have too... So they'll wait and see how the Greek People Vote... oddsmakers give "NO" vote about a 25% chance...so i guess us doomtards are gonna have to hit tails on consecutive coin tosses, if they're right that is. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 69598983 United States 06/30/2015 08:01 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Doom OFF scenario: Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9382371 IMF doesn't actually call it a default. The people vote FOR the bailout (very likely according to oddsmakers) The charade continues. This has a high probability of happening, unfortunately. It feels as though the entire world is holding their breathe but wants a greek default followed by the remaining pigs. Like they don't know what they want but they don't want what's been going on all these years, they want it fixed, they want a new way that doesn't involve overwhelming debt. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 69650056 United States 06/30/2015 08:02 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
JazzyG Forum Administrator User ID: 19631260 United States 06/30/2015 08:02 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Russia Opens Door To Greece As Sixth Member Of New BRICS World Bank: Russian Oil Makes Athens Europe’s Energy Hub! Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras on Monday held a telephone conversation with Russian Deputy Finance Minister Sergei Storchak. During the conversation, Storchak invited Greece to become the sixth member of the New Development Bank of BRICS countries, Greece’s Syriza party reported on its website. Storchak is a representative of the BRICS Bank which is now being established. [link to politicalvelcraft.org] To know where your heart is, look where your mind goes when it wanders. A rock in bad hands killed Abel. A rock in good hands killed Goliath. It isn't about the rock. A true warrior fights not because he hates the one in front of him, but because he loves those behind him. INTP-A |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 18749851 United States 06/30/2015 08:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Gregor Peter ‏@L0gg0l 1m1 minute ago Quoting: FunkY Greece IMF default triggers cross-default-clauses on EUR 131 billion in EFSF bonds triggering CDS 1/2 LEGIT??? so the CDS will be triggered?? confused If Greece defaults on it's IMF Loan or a Bond Payment, all debt associated with the Bailouts becomes callable... That is why the IMF used the word "Arrears" rather than "Default". I don't imagine they'll attempt to trigger that clause until the fate of the Referendum is decided... Even after the vote the default will not trigger the CDS avalanche. The sellers and managers of these derivatives claim the IMF debt is a bilateral loan and the default is voluntary, therefore not a real default. This should kill the derivatives market but it won't, because these CDSs were never meant to pay out only to be used as collateral. Is there something I'm missing, because the only way I see Greece toppling this house of cards is if this crisis leads to other European countries refusing to pay their debts. There are no CDS or CDO on the IMF loan because it is a Bilateral Agreement, BUT in the Bail Out Program Greece Agreed that if it missed any payment on any loan or bond associated with the Bail Out Program then all LOANS AND BONDS COULD BECOME CALLABLE at the discretion of the EFSF... So while the IMF Loan itself wouldn't trigger CDS or CDO's, should the EFSF choose to avail itself of the clause in the Bail Out Agreement and call ALL of Greek Debt associated with the Bail Out Program, THAT WOULD TRIGGER CDS and CDO CALLS AS WELL since Greece would obviously not be able to pay off all the Bonds that would be called in this case... Bonds that ARE covered with CDO's and CDS's... In short, default on the IMF Loan doesn't necessarily cause a Call of CDO's and CDS's, but it gives the ESFS the ability to create a situation that would cause the Call of ALL CDO's and CDS's Associated with Greek Bonds!!! Uh, wouldn't this be kinda suicidal for the EU? I can't make any sense outta this shit anymore. No deadline is really a deadline, no doom is really doom until we all fall asleep after panic sex and then it's BOOM? Is that kinda how it is? |
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Saddletramp User ID: 68373023 United States 06/30/2015 08:06 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Saddletramp IF The IMF considers this a Default, which is why they're using the word "Arrears" right now... Everyone is gonna wait for the Referendum before all hell breaks loose... This means we gotta wait for the referendoom? Yeah, I don't think anyone Wants to start this shit storm in the Derivative Markets if they don't have too... So they'll wait and see how the Greek People Vote... oddsmakers give "NO" vote about a 25% chance...so i guess us doomtards are gonna have to hit tails on consecutive coin tosses, if they're right that is. I dunno, the ECB forcing the closing of the Greek Banks may have a backlash effect that could be very unpredictable... I guess we're gonna find out. I would say under ordinary circumstances a Yes vote would be heavily favored... "And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius "Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..." "We don't rent pigs!" |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 18749851 United States 06/30/2015 08:06 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Greece IMF default triggers cross-default-clauses on EUR 131 billion in EFSF bonds triggering CDS 1/2 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 67285741 IF The IMF considers this a Default, which is why they're using the word "Arrears" right now... Everyone is gonna wait for the Referendum before all hell breaks loose... This means we gotta wait for the referendoom? Yeah, I don't think anyone Wants to start this shit storm in the Derivative Markets if they don't have too... So they'll wait and see how the Greek People Vote... Good sir, I simply cannot go back to 'fags and flags' after this kinda build up. It's simply not done . . . just like this endless scenario. All the same, thanks for your endless patience in explaining it to us groundlings. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 69598983 United States 06/30/2015 08:06 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Developed country can't pay 1.8 billion? What's wrong with that? Smells fishy. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69650056 Maybe they should try and come up with "out of the box solutions" to the worldwide debt problem. Like maybe take a couple of zeros off everyone's debt, all at once. Make Greece pay $1.80 and call it a day. What they have been doing hasn't been working for the whole world, they've got to think out of the box or this will just keep happening and getting worse. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 19973606 United States 06/30/2015 08:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Gregor Peter ‏@L0gg0l 1m1 minute ago Quoting: FunkY Greece IMF default triggers cross-default-clauses on EUR 131 billion in EFSF bonds triggering CDS 1/2 LEGIT??? so the CDS will be triggered?? confused If Greece defaults on it's IMF Loan or a Bond Payment, all debt associated with the Bailouts becomes callable... That is why the IMF used the word "Arrears" rather than "Default". I don't imagine they'll attempt to trigger that clause until the fate of the Referendum is decided... Even after the vote the default will not trigger the CDS avalanche. The sellers and managers of these derivatives claim the IMF debt is a bilateral loan and the default is voluntary, therefore not a real default. This should kill the derivatives market but it won't, because these CDSs were never meant to pay out only to be used as collateral. Is there something I'm missing, because the only way I see Greece toppling this house of cards is if this crisis leads to other European countries refusing to pay their debts. There are no CDS or CDO on the IMF loan because it is a Bilateral Agreement, BUT in the Bail Out Program Greece Agreed that if it missed any payment on any loan or bond associated with the Bail Out Program then all LOANS AND BONDS COULD BECOME CALLABLE at the discretion of the EFSF... So while the IMF Loan itself wouldn't trigger CDS or CDO's, should the EFSF choose to avail itself of the clause in the Bail Out Agreement and call ALL of Greek Debt associated with the Bail Out Program, THAT WOULD TRIGGER CDS and CDO CALLS AS WELL since Greece would obviously not be able to pay off all the Bonds that would be called in this case... Bonds that ARE covered with CDO's and CDS's... In short, default on the IMF Loan doesn't necessarily cause a Call of CDO's and CDS's, but it gives the ESFS the ability to create a situation that would cause the Call of ALL CDO's and CDS's Associated with Greek Bonds!!! OK so the IMF loan is part of a bailout package and once it is in default it will violate the entire agreement leading to other defaults that involve CDS and CDOs right? Thank you. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 18749851 United States 06/30/2015 08:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 69645125 United States 06/30/2015 08:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | [link to www.tovima.gr] "Sources report that the European Central Bank will act without delay,...and carry out a major haircut of the value of guarantees offered by Greek banks for refinancing purposes. Essentially our Banks will have limited funding options; they will be deemed to be lacking the necessary capital and will collapse in a few days. They will not be in the position to cover the 60-euro daily withdrawal limit. Already the Ministry of Finances has recognized that it cannot make the 240 euro payments to pensioners and has restricted it to 120 euros,... Unfortunately those responsible ...do not realize, not even now, the critical nature of circumstances and do not comprehend the extent of the imminent national catastrophe. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 18749851 United States 06/30/2015 08:10 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 69598983 United States 06/30/2015 08:16 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I disagree. The world is full of intelligent people, they need to figure something out and fast. Maybe there is a simplistic answer that no one is looking for, but, either way it seems their going to learn what happens in a default. So, it's worth everyone's while to put their head's together and figure something out. |
Saddletramp User ID: 68373023 United States 06/30/2015 08:16 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Here, Angela Merkel explains it all... "And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius "Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..." "We don't rent pigs!" |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 69650056 United States 06/30/2015 08:17 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Saddletramp User ID: 68373023 United States 06/30/2015 08:20 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Bruno Waterfield @BrunoBrussels Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69650056 No new bailout while @tsipras_eu & @yanisvaroufakis remain power, says senior German conservative Wow "And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius "Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..." "We don't rent pigs!" |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 69598983 United States 06/30/2015 08:22 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | [link to www.tovima.gr] Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69645125 "Sources report that the European Central Bank will act without delay,...and carry out a major haircut of the value of guarantees offered by Greek banks for refinancing purposes. Essentially our Banks will have limited funding options; they will be deemed to be lacking the necessary capital and will collapse in a few days. They will not be in the position to cover the 60-euro daily withdrawal limit. Already the Ministry of Finances has recognized that it cannot make the 240 euro payments to pensioners and has restricted it to 120 euros,... Unfortunately those responsible ...do not realize, not even now, the critical nature of circumstances and do not comprehend the extent of the imminent national catastrophe. If they start printing drachmas maybe the banks will be fine. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 69650056 United States 06/30/2015 08:22 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |