Godlike Productions - Discussion Forum
Users Online Now: 1,426 (Who's On?)Visitors Today: 275,693
Pageviews Today: 472,971Threads Today: 229Posts Today: 3,286
05:39 AM


Rate this Thread

Absolute BS Crap Reasonable Nice Amazing
 

TORTURE : An Executive Summary

 
Question EVERYTHING
Traveler In The Matrix

User ID: 64421009
United States
12/16/2014 11:28 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
TORTURE : An Executive Summary
It amazes me that we are actually trying to justify this shit even though the consensus is that it yields not meaningful benefits...

Less than 50%

What You Need to Know ..

There’s a media storm regarding the Senate torture report … appropriately.

But much of the report was redacted by the CIA and White House.

Here’s what you need to know …

Initially, the torture was widespread and systemic.

As Glenn Greenwald notes:

A wide array of torture techniques were approved at the highest levels of the U.S. Government and then systematically employed in lawless US prisons around the world – at Bagram (including during the Obama presidency), CIA black sites, even to US citizens on US soil. So systematic was the torture regime that a 2008 Senate report concluded that the criminal abuses at Abu Ghraib were the direct result of the torture mentality imposed by official Washington. American torture was not confined to a handful of aberrational cases or techniques, nor was it the work of rogue CIA agents. It was an officially sanctioned, worldwide regime of torture that had the acquiescence, if not explicit approval, of the top members of both political parties in Congress

And it wasn’t just bad guys who were tortured:

The commander of the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, Janis Karpinski, estimates that 90% of detainees in the prison were innocent
The number two man at the State Department under Colin Powell, Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, says that many of those being held at Guantanamo Bay were innocent, and that top Bush administration officials knew that they were innocent
U.S. military files show that many Guantánamo prisoners were held on the flimsiest grounds such as wearing a Casio watch, being a prisoner in a Taliban jail, driving cabs in certain geographic regions, or being Al Jazeera reporters
Many state that those tortured were mainly innocent farmers, villagers, or those against whom neighbors held a grudge. Indeed, people received a nice cash reward from the U.S. government for turning people in as “suspected terrorists” (and see this movie)

Virtually all of the top interrogation experts – both conservatives and liberals (except for those trying to escape war crimes prosecution) – say that torture doesn’t work:

Army Field Manual 34-52 Chapter 1 says:
“Experience indicates that the use of force is not necessary to gain the cooperation of sources for interrogation. Therefore, the use of force is a poor technique, as it yields unreliable results, may damage subsequent collection efforts, and can induce the source to say whatever he thinks the interrogator wants to hear.”

The C.I.A.’s 1963 interrogation manual stated:
Intense pain is quite likely to produce false confessions, concocted as a means of escaping from distress. A time-consuming delay results, while investigation is conducted and the admissions are proven untrue. During this respite the interrogatee can pull himself together. He may even use the time to think up new, more complex ‘admissions’ that take still longer to disprove.

According to the Washington Post, the CIA’s top spy – Michael Sulick, head of the CIA’s National Clandestine Service – said that the spy agency has seen no fall-off in intelligence since waterboarding was banned by the Obama administration. “I don’t think we’ve suffered at all from an intelligence standpoint.”
The CIA’s own Inspector General wrote that waterboarding was not “efficacious” in producing information
A 30-year veteran of CIA’s operations directorate who rose to the most senior managerial ranks (Milton Bearden) says(as quoted by senior CIA agent and Presidential briefer Ray McGovern):
It is irresponsible for any administration not to tell a credible story that would convince critics at home and abroad that this torture has served some useful purpose.

***

The old hands overwhelmingly believe that torture doesn’t work ….

A former high-level CIA officer (Philip Giraldi) states:
Many governments that have routinely tortured to obtain information have abandoned the practice when they discovered that other approaches actually worked better for extracting information. Israel prohibited torturing Palestinian terrorist suspects in 1999. Even the German Gestapo stopped torturing French resistance captives when it determined that treating prisoners well actually produced more and better intelligence.

[link to www.washingtonsblog.com]

Last Edited by Question EVERYTHING on 12/16/2014 11:39 PM
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. ~ Mahatma Gandhi

"Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—forever." ~ George Orwell

"The exact level of tyranny that you're going to live under, is the level of tyranny you put up with." ~Thomas Jefferson

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. ~ Thomas Jefferson
Question EVERYTHING  (OP)
Traveler In The Matrix

User ID: 64421009
United States
12/16/2014 11:38 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: TORTURE : An Executive Summary
bump

Last Edited by Question EVERYTHING on 12/17/2014 08:45 AM
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. ~ Mahatma Gandhi

"Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—forever." ~ George Orwell

"The exact level of tyranny that you're going to live under, is the level of tyranny you put up with." ~Thomas Jefferson

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. ~ Thomas Jefferson
s. d. butler

User ID: 974819
United States
12/16/2014 11:40 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: TORTURE : An Executive Summary
Glad you posted this. Regardless of ideology torture and a government that has torture as an official policy is a very bad thing. No one has more contempt for feinstein and her ilk than I do. But that isn't the point.

I don't have the link but the CIA can't point to a single real world success for torture. No matter how much obfuscating and dissembling they do.

Here are the conclusions.



The Committee makes the following findings and conclusions:

1. The CIA's use of its enhanced interrogation techniques was not an effective means of acquiring intelligences or gaining cooperation for detainees.

2. The CIA's justification for the use of its enhanced interrogation techniques rest on inaccurate claims of the effectiveness.

3. The interrogations of CIA detainees were brutal and far worse than the CIA represented to policymakers and others.

4. The conditions of confinement for CIA detainees were harsher than the CIA had represented to policymakers and others
.
5. The CIA repeatedly provided inaccurate information to the Department of Justice, impeding a proper legal analysis of the CIA's Detention and Interrogation Program.

6 The CIA has actively avoided or impeded congressional oversight of the program.

7. The CIA impeded effective White House oversight and decision-making.

8. The CIA's operation and management of the program complicated, and in some cases impeded, the national security missions of other Executive Branch agencies.

9. The CIA impeded oversight by the CIA's Office of Inspector General.

10. The CIA coordinated the release of classified information to the media, including inaccurate information concerning the effectiveness of the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques.


11. The CIA was unprepared as it began operating its Detention and Interrogation Program more than six months after being granted detention authorities.

12. The CIA's management and operation of its Detention and Interrogation Program was deeply flawed throughout the program's duration, particularly so in 2002 and early 2003.

13. Two contract psychologists devised the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques and played a central role in the operation, assessments, and management of the CIA's Detention and Interrogation Program. By 2005, the CIA had overwhelmingly outsourced operations related to the program.

14. CIA detainees were subjected to coercive interrogation techniques that had not been approved by the Department of Justice or had not been authorized by CIA Headquarters.

15. The CIA did not conduct a comprehensive or accurate accounting of the number of individuals it detained, and held individuals who did not meet the legal standard for detention. The CIA's claims about the number of detainees held and subjected to its enhanced interrogation techniques were inaccurate.

16. The CIA failed to adequately evaluate the effectiveness of its enhanced interrogation techniques.

17. The CIA rarely reprimanded or held personnel accountable for serious and significant violations, inappropriate activities, and systemic and individual management failures.

18. The CIA marginalized and ignored numerous internal critiques, criticisms, and objections concerning the operation and management of the CIA's Detention and Interrogation Program.

19. The CIA's Detention and Interrogation Program was inherently unsustainable and had effectively ended by 2006 due to unauthorized press disclosures, reduced cooperation from other nations, and legal and oversight concerns.

2o. The CIA's Detention and Interrogation Program damaged the United States' standing in the world, and resulted in other significant monetary and non-monetary costs.


I suggest torture advocates read this and the original post with their ideological blinders off.

Last Edited by s. d. butler on 12/16/2014 11:45 PM
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 44493293
United States
12/16/2014 11:42 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: TORTURE : An Executive Summary
lala
Question EVERYTHING  (OP)
Traveler In The Matrix

User ID: 64421009
United States
12/16/2014 11:46 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: TORTURE : An Executive Summary
Glad you posted this. Regardless of ideology torture and a government that has torture as an official policy is a very bad thing. No one has more contempt for feinstein and her ilk than I do. But that isn't the point.

I don't have the link but the CIA can't point to a single real world success for torture. No matter how much obfuscating and dissembling they do.

Here are the conclusions.



The Committee makes the following findings and conclusions:

1. The CIA's use of its enhanced interrogation techniques was not an effective means of acquiring intelligences or gaining cooperation for detainees.

2. The CIA's justification for the use of its enhanced interrogation techniques rest on inaccurate claims of the effectiveness.

3. The interrogations of CIA detainees were brutal and far worse than the CIA represented to policymakers and others.

4. The conditions of confinement for CIA detainees were harsher than the CIA had represented to policymakers and others
.
5. The CIA repeatedly provided inaccurate information to the Department of Justice, impeding a proper legal analysis of the CIA's Detention and Interrogation Program.

6 The CIA has actively avoided or impeded congressional oversight of the program.

7. The CIA impeded effective White House oversight and decision-making.

8. The CIA's operation and management of the program complicated, and in some cases impeded, the national security missions of other Executive Branch agencies.

9. The CIA impeded oversight by the CIA's Office of Inspector General.

10. The CIA coordinated the release of classified information to the media, including inaccurate information concerning the effectiveness of the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques.


11. The CIA was unprepared as it began operating its Detention and Interrogation Program more than six months after being granted detention authorities.

12. The CIA's management and operation of its Detention and Interrogation Program was deeply flawed throughout the program's duration, particularly so in 2002 and early 2003.

13. Two contract psychologists devised the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques and played a central role in the operation, assessments, and management of the CIA's Detention and Interrogation Program. By 2005, the CIA had overwhelmingly outsourced operations related to the program.

14. CIA detainees were subjected to coercive interrogation techniques that had not been approved by the Department of Justice or had not been authorized by CIA Headquarters.

15. The CIA did not conduct a comprehensive or accurate accounting of the number of individuals it detained, and held individuals who did not meet the legal standard for detention. The CIA's claims about the number of detainees held and subjected to its enhanced interrogation techniques were inaccurate.

16. The CIA failed to adequately evaluate the effectiveness of its enhanced interrogation techniques.

17. The CIA rarely reprimanded or held personnel accountable for serious and significant violations, inappropriate activities, and systemic and individual management failures.

18. The CIA marginalized and ignored numerous internal critiques, criticisms, and objections concerning the operation and management of the CIA's Detention and Interrogation Program.

19. The CIA's Detention and Interrogation Program was inherently unsustainable and had effectively ended by 2006 due to unauthorized press disclosures, reduced cooperation from other nations, and legal and oversight concerns.

2o. The CIA's Detention and Interrogation Program damaged the United States' standing in the world, and resulted in other significant monetary and non-monetary costs.


I suggest torture advocates read this and the original post with their ideological blinders off.
 Quoting: s. d. butler



Thanks. Nice summery.
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. ~ Mahatma Gandhi

"Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—forever." ~ George Orwell

"The exact level of tyranny that you're going to live under, is the level of tyranny you put up with." ~Thomas Jefferson

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. ~ Thomas Jefferson
Question EVERYTHING  (OP)
Traveler In The Matrix

User ID: 64421009
United States
12/16/2014 11:47 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: TORTURE : An Executive Summary
lala
 Quoting: WETHEYYOUITHEMUS


This is my father...
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. ~ Mahatma Gandhi

"Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—forever." ~ George Orwell

"The exact level of tyranny that you're going to live under, is the level of tyranny you put up with." ~Thomas Jefferson

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. ~ Thomas Jefferson
Question EVERYTHING  (OP)
Traveler In The Matrix

User ID: 64421009
United States
12/17/2014 12:11 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: TORTURE : An Executive Summary
bump
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. ~ Mahatma Gandhi

"Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—forever." ~ George Orwell

"The exact level of tyranny that you're going to live under, is the level of tyranny you put up with." ~Thomas Jefferson

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. ~ Thomas Jefferson
jedi storm
User ID: 63910885
United States
12/17/2014 04:47 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: TORTURE : An Executive Summary
Even a fool doesn't believe he's stupid.......

Even the most unintelligent person on earth, believes he's smart...............

yodayodayodayoda
Question EVERYTHING  (OP)
Traveler In The Matrix

User ID: 65690287
United States
12/17/2014 08:46 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: TORTURE : An Executive Summary
bump
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. ~ Mahatma Gandhi

"Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—forever." ~ George Orwell

"The exact level of tyranny that you're going to live under, is the level of tyranny you put up with." ~Thomas Jefferson

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. ~ Thomas Jefferson





GLP