616 or 666 which is the Real Mark of the Beast?

Interesting...five stars and pin suggest for discussion.

616.

Angela Merkel.

Where a=1,b=2 etc...

Angela = 22 Merkel = 28

22 x 28 = 616

She has Hitler's eyes.

Some modern versions of the bible as well as recent news articles call the accepted reading of Revelation 13:18 into question. Do these claims have merit?

[link to www.endtime.com]

Much of the recent stir about 616 has arisen due to renewed studies of a group of very old manuscripts originally discovered in 1895 by archaeologists at the site of an ancient garbage dump in Oxyrhynchus in Egypt. Many of the Oxyrhynchus manuscripts consist of New Testament papyri, and are very old when compared to other manuscripts. One of them named P115 (also called P. Oxy. 4499), dates from around 300 AD and contains some or all of 12 chapters from the Book of Revelation, including Revelation 13:18. It records 616 as the number of the beast using Greek letters (see figure 1). Because of this manuscript’s age, some have jumped to the conclusion that this must be the original reading. However, this conclusion cannot be made. Other evidence must be considered. For example, three manuscripts from the Chester Beatty Papyri include portions of the New Testament. One of these named P47, dates from the 3rd century and contains chapters 9-17 of Revelation. In its reading of Revelation 13:18, it states that the number of the beast is 666, using Greek letters (see figure 2). So, two equally old papyri have both readings – 666 and 616.

Hmmmm.... things are getting interesting

Wow, true.

Thanks MW!


check this out.....
[link to www.truebiblecode.com]

[158] Revelation 13 & 17: Earth born & Sea born wild beasts & an image: The meanings of 616

The Beasts of Revelation 13 (Wild Beast is the UN, its image is the UN Peace Building Commission)

18 Here is the wisdom: The [one] having intelligence let him calculate the number of the wild-beast, for it is a man's number; and its number [is] 616 [Event: This could be a name count of an emperor who had authority over the Roman state, the first presence beast, at the start of the RC church. The man's number is the number of the beast because the man has authority of the beast, and the number is the slave branding number of submission to that authority. Word: This is 616 months of the life of the beast from the entry of the Roman Cahtolic church into the UN with its blasphemous name of the Holy See, on 1964Nisan7 to 2015Ab7, when the Un is finished? Compare with Daniel5 which says, God has numbered your kingdom, not God has numbered the days of your kingdom! Mark day will become known as UN authority day. The day that the UN is born as a global government. In fact this is the purpose of the GT from Satan's standpoint after he fails to kill all of us with it] (Revelation 13).

For the count of the number of the Beast see the section 666 vs 616 on the home page. The beast counts as 616 which are the months of its human authority before Satan takes it over. He or one of his demons is the 7th head. These have blasphemous names possibly from the exchange of letters between the Vatican and the UN in October 1957 (1957Tishri) by means of which the UN was persuaded to call the Vatican the 'Holy See'. This occurred during the headship of Dag Hammarskold. Or possibly the blasphemous names were written onto the heads during the headship of U Thant which began on 1961November30 (1961Chislev18), because the Vatican took permanent member status during his administration.

If so then the 616 months run from 1961Chislev to 2013Nisan. But more likely from 1964Nisan7 (when the Vatican, calling itself the holy see, took Permanent Observer status) to 2015Ab.

Really, the end of the 616 months should be the end of the blasphemous names being on the heads. The first two heads of the UN Beast, the administrations of Trygve Lie and Dag Hammarskjold, did not carry the 'holy see', and therefore did not have blasphemous names upon them. So there are to be 9 Secretary Generals of the UN in all. These are the ones who do not know whether they are secretaries or generals (James Reston New York Times). The holy see took Permanent Observer status on March 21, 1964 (1964Nisan7) or April 6, 1964 (1964Nisan23).

Zoar begins on 2014Tishri16. The mark of the Beast is to become law on 616 secular, which is 2014Adar16 (in the new Tishri1 year start secular calendar). 2014Tishri16 = 2014October13/14 and 2014Adar16=2015March12/13.

This is getting creepier the deeper I research this.....

[snip]
less than 50%

[link to www.truebiblecode.com]
The UN itself is a 10 horned, 7 headed, 10 diademed wild beast with one head that gets slaughtered and recovers. The 10 horns are 10 years of power from First Gulf War in 1991 to 2002July1 UNICC, when 7 regnal years of Kingship were confirmed, running from 2002Nisan to 2009Nisan. 10 diadems are 10 Secretary Generals of the UN, Kofi Annan is the 7th. The UN had its second head chopped off and lost its headship on 2003Veadar9 (March 17, 2003, 8 pm EST) when GWB and Blair gave Saddam a 48 hour ultimatum to leave Iraq. No UN authority for such an ultimatum. This is the beginning of the sword stroke to the second head, the second year of headship, of the UN Beast. UN headship is flouted by a war. UNSC resolution 1483 on 2003May22 (2003Iyyar19) retroactively legitimized the coalition's invasion accepting the coalition as the occupying power. The US and the UK give our authority in Iraq to the UN by asking for and then accepting them as empowered to authorise the occupation. The death stroke to the second head is healed.

The image of the beast is the temporal image of the UN Beast reduced in size by a factor of 12. It is an image that replaces years with months. The 10 diadems are the 10 UNPBC permanent members to be in the image. So it has 10 months of power (10 horns) followed by 7 months of headship (7 heads), which headship it loses in the 2nd month of headship. But since we know that its power period starts on or just after 2007Iyyar, we know that the 17 months end in 2008Tishri/Heshvan.

For more on this see U159.

The UN has so far had 8 heads, namely Lie, Hammarskjold, Uthant, Waldhiem, Perez de Cuellar, Boutros Boutros Gali, Kofi Annan and Ban Ki-Moon. These Secretary Generals who don't know whether they are Secretaries or Generals, the astute observation of James Reston of the New York Times, have one or two terms of 5 years each we believe. Boutros-Gali was elected in 1992. Kofi Anan took over in 1997 and was re-elected in 2001. We today (2004 November) are in the 7th presidency of the UN. The 10 diadems are 10 Secretary Generals serving successively for the whole 'day' of the UN but not for the whole 'day' of the Beast (which day includes the League of Nations). The 10 horns are ten kings from ten nations ruling concurrently for one hour of the 'day' of the beast. We are using the word 'Day' here in the sense of Queen Victoria's 'Day', it stands for the entire lifespan of the Beast.

A little horn is going to appear at sometime in the near future!! It is going to humiliate 3 of these kings of the UN. This little horn, that looks bigger than it is, is the EU. It will humiliate the English French and German horns. Then it will corrupt the whole UN.

20 And concerning the 10 horns that were on its head, and the other [horn] and before which three fell, even that horn that had eyes and a mouth speaking grandiose things and the appearance of which was bigger that of its fellows (Daniel 7).

616 = the Marvel Comics Universe, which is coming to an end in May.

Coincidence or conspiracy?

616 was a scribal error thqt got repeated for a certain time, per Irenaeus:

(Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 5.29.2 [ANF 1:558]...

{1} Such, then, being the state of the case {with Noah’s age at the deluge and the dimensions of Nebuchadnezzar’s image}, and {2} this number {i.e., 666} being found in all the most approved and ancient copies [of the Apocalypse], and {3} those men who saw John face to face bearing their testimony [to it]; {4} while reason also leads us to conclude that the number of the name of the beast, [if reckoned] according to the Greek mode of calculation by the [value of] the letters contained in it, will amount to six hundred and sixty and six; that is, the number of tens shall be equal to that of the hundreds, and the number of hundreds equal to that of the units (for that number which [expresses] the digit six being adhered to throughout, indicates the recapitulations of that apostasy, taken in its full extent, which occurred at the beginning, during the intermediate periods, and which shall take place at the end),—I do not know how it is that some have erred following the ordinary mode of speech, and have vitiated the middle number in the name, deducting the amount of fifty from it, so that instead of six decads they will have it that there is but one {i.e., 616}. [I am inclined to think that this occurred through the fault of the copyists, as is wont to happen, since numbers also are expressed by letters; so that the Greek letter which expresses the number sixty was easily expanded into the letter Iota of the Greeks.]* {5} Others then received this reading without examination; some in their simplicity, and upon their own responsibility, making use of this number expressing one decad; while some, in their inexperience, have ventured to seek out a name which should contain the erroneous and spurious number. Now, as regards those who have done this in simplicity, and without evil intent, we are at liberty to assume that pardon will be granted them by God. {6} But as for those who, for the sake of vainglory, lay it down for certain that names containing the spurious number are to be accepted, and affirm that this name, hit upon by themselves, is that of him who is to come; such persons shall not come forth without loss, because they have led into error both themselves and those who confided in them. Now, in the first place, it is loss to wander from the truth, and to imagine that as being the case which is not; then again, as there shall be no light punishment [inflicted] upon him who either adds or subtracts anything from the Scripture, under that such a person must necessarily fall. Moreover, another danger, by no means trifling, shall overtake those who falsely presume that they know the name of Antichrist. For if these men assume one [number], when this [Antichrist] shall come having another, they will be easily led away by him, as supposing him not to be the expected one, who must be guarded against. (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 5.30.1 [ANF 1:558–59]

Many scholars believe that 666 won out because it is derived from a more complex formula and also because it’s simply more catchy. “Six hundred sixty-six looks like a more memorable number than 616,” said David Parker, a New Testament professor at the University of Birmingham in England. “Six hundred sixty-six steadily took over, and the alternative was forgotten until modern scholars in the past 200 years started to look at more manuscripts and to find ones that had been lost.”

Exactly – we’ve known about 616 for awhile now. In fact, there was a great essay about it back in 1999 in Bible Review called Why 2K? The Biblical Roots of Millennialism where author James Tabor explains:<


[link to www.deliriumsrealm.com]

[link to clas-pages.uncc.edu (secure)]
[link to jamestabor.com]
“Why 2K: The Biblical Roots of Millennialism,” Bible Review (December, 1999), pp. 16-27, 44-45. (Feature article, 6500 words with notes)

Irenaeus-(early 2nd century – c. AD 202)

For awhile now?

Soon you will know.

If you had been paying attention you would already know.

It is everywhere.

Biblioblogger, Ed Cook, at Ralph the Sacred River adds

For laypeople, I want to emphasize these points: (1) the most likely reading of the number in Revelation 13:18 is still “666”; (2) the reading “616” has in fact been known for many years, and even the new papyrus has been known since the 1990’s; (3) the variation between “666” and “616” does not materially affect the interpretation of the book of Revelation. In short, the reading “616” is mainly interesting to textual critics of the New Testament and is unlikely to make a change in anyone’s Bible or beliefs.

I know, right?
it appears that 4 manuscripts have been found referencing 616. Very interesting.

A different perspective.
[link to www.escapeallthesethings.com]

Tried to pin this, too many karma pins at this time.

Interesting reading.

Pin suggested and +5

Thanks Aspamce!

I find it very interesting the depth of this subject. It warrants further research, and conversation.

for more dialogue

So I take it ur the one who changed my password go do something constructive instead of harrassing citizens no matter their nature

Its more vile than me and that's saying something ! Since I'm not a narcasist and would be such to think its only being done to me

THIS
St Irenaeus just debunked this whole thing

??????

I think you have the wrong Number

Ronald(6 letters) Wilson(6) Reagan(6) or Ronald(6) W.(1) Reagan(6) was the "666 1st Beast"/Antichrist. "He was ruler of the world, his actions were the opposite of the Christ, he lied to all nations, and was wounded yet lived".

George Walker Bush Jr. was/is the "'2nd Beast' who exercised the authority/power of the 1st Beast and his actions were the opposite of the Christ's. He 'made fire come down from the heavens' with the 'destruction of Babylon' (War In Iraq)".

United(6) States(6) Dollar(6) is the "666 mark of the beast that everyone must have to buy or sell with" - The Revelation Chapter 13. On the back of the US $1 Dollar Bill, the #13 is encoded 13 times.

But the written word cannot be altered, right? So if you try (try it) to tell a fundamentalist literalist the 616 vs 666 information, they lose it and fight for the book they have in their hands--what is written.

616 probably is the number. Just like there was no apple in Eden. And there is no mention of "easter". And there is no mention of a december 25th birthday with trees and holy and mistletoe and yule logs. Oh, and no mention of "rapture".

What other "misses" were written….or not written at all...

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

measurements are a human construct.
You are flying through space at high speed. Your perceptions are worthless.

Think of this: No one knows the name of the beast. John give the number to his name for those wise enough to understand.

So with this in mind--the name is not known. How can Irenaeus (above) deduce that 666 is correct or that 616 is a typo (done by some ancient auto check failure, lol).

And this:

"...while reason also leads us to conclude that the number of the name of the beast, [if reckoned] according to the Greek mode of calculation by the [value of] the letters contained in it, will amount to six hundred and sixty and six;"

Did John supposedly wrote Revelation in Koine Greek. Keep in mind John was 92 years old. Speak to someone 92 years old and notice their language and writing differences compared to today (modern day). For example, if they said this person's name is "height", and wrote it down, some modern day transcriber may write it as "heightH" (because the "H" is now accepted as being correct in the SAME language).

Info from wiki:

Koine Greek displayed a wide spectrum of different styles, ranging from more conservative literary forms to the spoken vernaculars of the time.

John had a vision and "saw" the "mark of the beast".

To John, it looked like the greek for 666, when it could be the arabic for "In the name of Allah".

[link to www.hope-of-israel.org]