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Ukraine mega thread, NEWS,and DEBATE...

 
PorkyWaltzman

User ID: 25692221
Luxembourg
02/04/2015 08:34 AM
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Re: Ukraine mega thread, NEWS,and DEBATE...
Before the assault on Nikishino
Anonymous Coward
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02/04/2015 09:06 AM
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Money talks. Putin plans to invite Greek PM Tsipras to Moscow. $10 Billion lifeline from Russia to Greece may be in the works

After the US President Barack Obama showed a renewed interest in helping Greece overcome it's debt difficulties, Russian President Vladimir Putin may be inviting Greek Prime Minister, Alexis Tsipras, to Moscow for an official visit. Various sources in Athens are saying that Russia can extended a $10 billion lifeline to Greece.

Very interesting development, that of course will be immediately countered.

Link: [link to redpilltimes.com]

Take Care
firinne (OP)

User ID: 61131908
Ireland
02/04/2015 09:29 AM

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Re: Ukraine mega thread, NEWS,and DEBATE...
War in the Ukraine
by Alexander Mercouris



1. My key point is that it is not minor tactical movements that are determining the course of this war. It is the level of casualties the Ukrainian military is suffering. They were hammered in the summer and they are being hammered again now.

In my pieces for Russia Insider I quoted the number of Ukrainian military deaths on the basis of official Ukrainian documents obtained by a hacking group as 1,100 for a two week period that covered the battle for Donetsk airport. The NAF today puts the total number of Ukrainian military deaths presumably since the resumption of the fighting at 1,500. Colonel Cassad yesterday was saying that the number could be over 1,800.

The figures of 1,500 and 1,800 cover a longer period than the 1,100 in the hacked Ukrainian documents. The fact that they are all of the same order of magnitude however suggests that all these figures are reliable. If so then that that shows that my guess that the Ukrainian army is suffering deaths at a rate of several hundred a week is probably correct.

2. Of course the NAF is also currently suffering a high rate of losses. However it is clear that these are at a substantially lesser level than the Ukrainian. As I said in the Russia Insider piece an NAF spokesman put the loss ratio at 4 to 1. Colonel Cassad put the total number of NAF deaths at 600 for the same period as that of his 1,800 estimate for Ukrainian deaths. That is a 3 to 1 ratio.

I suspect that the number of NAF deaths over the last 3 weeks is higher than usual because the NAF has been on the attack for most of this period. When that stage ends after the Debaltsevo pocket is fully encircled I would guess the number will fall. By contrast as the pocket collapses the rate of deaths of Ukrainians will rise especially if the pattern of unsuccessful counterattacks the Ukrainians have a habit of launching is followed.

[link to vineyardsaker.blogspot.ie]
firinne (OP)

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02/04/2015 09:30 AM

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Re: Ukraine mega thread, NEWS,and DEBATE...
Money talks. Putin plans to invite Greek PM Tsipras to Moscow. $10 Billion lifeline from Russia to Greece may be in the works

After the US President Barack Obama showed a renewed interest in helping Greece overcome it's debt difficulties, Russian President Vladimir Putin may be inviting Greek Prime Minister, Alexis Tsipras, to Moscow for an official visit. Various sources in Athens are saying that Russia can extended a $10 billion lifeline to Greece.

Very interesting development, that of course will be immediately countered.

Link: [link to redpilltimes.com]

Take Care
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10713874


Why would Russia even consider bailing out the Duetche bank?
Anonymous Coward
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02/04/2015 09:31 AM
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And here is the countermove, or the pre-counter move if you wish.

This is indeed very interesting.

Obama is freaking out that Greece will join the China/Russia camp. US setting up task force to help Greece with its debt

"US President Barack Obama and Treasury Secretary Jack Lew are setting up a US "Task Force" of debt experts that plan to be in Athens to help mediate the current Greek - Brussels debt relief stand off. The fear that Greece may move over to the BRCIS camp is prompting Obama to do whatever is necessary to find a solution to Europe's latest financial crisis."

Task force?? my ass.

Link: [link to redpilltimes.com]

Take Care
Anonymous Coward
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02/04/2015 09:40 AM
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Re: Ukraine mega thread, NEWS,and DEBATE...
Money talks. Putin plans to invite Greek PM Tsipras to Moscow. $10 Billion lifeline from Russia to Greece may be in the works

After the US President Barack Obama showed a renewed interest in helping Greece overcome it's debt difficulties, Russian President Vladimir Putin may be inviting Greek Prime Minister, Alexis Tsipras, to Moscow for an official visit. Various sources in Athens are saying that Russia can extended a $10 billion lifeline to Greece.

Very interesting development, that of course will be immediately countered.

Link: [link to redpilltimes.com]

Take Care
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10713874


Why would Russia even consider bailing out the Duetche bank?
 Quoting: firinne


Russia considers nothing of the kind, neither does Greece. The "Task Force" will meet their match in Yanis Varoufakis, who is as good as Putin when it comes to play chess on his own board.

He is confronting a bunch of amateurs, backed up by power I admit, but nonetheless amateurs.

He knows their game better than they do.

Take Care
Matjaz

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02/04/2015 09:55 AM
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Interview with Dmitry Rogozin, Deputy PM of Russia

And yes, please do press the "cc" button if you want to see the subtitles!

Link: [link to vineyardsaker.blogspot.no]

Take Care
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10713874



bump

Good stuff thanky you for this. So my gut feeling is right. Russia is arming itself at fast pace and we all know how massive scales their production can reach. If they gonna put out their new toys, NATO will be in trouble.

Last Edited by Matjaz on 02/04/2015 09:55 AM
Anonymous Coward
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02/04/2015 10:06 AM
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Re: Ukraine mega thread, NEWS,and DEBATE...
Interview with Dmitry Rogozin, Deputy PM of Russia

And yes, please do press the "cc" button if you want to see the subtitles!

Link: [link to vineyardsaker.blogspot.no]

Take Care
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10713874



bump

Good stuff thanky you for this. So my gut feeling is right. Russia is arming itself at fast pace and we all know how massive scales their production can reach. If they gonna put out their new toys, NATO will be in trouble.
 Quoting: Matjaz


NATO is already in deep sh*t, running around in disorganized circles like chickens in panic, because they feel that there is a fox in the hen-house.

There is of course, in their head.

Take Care
firinne (OP)

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02/04/2015 10:17 AM

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Re: Ukraine mega thread, NEWS,and DEBATE...
Greece: Meaningful Economic Reforms Could Come Through BRICS and Russia?

[link to www.hellenicshippingnews.com]
Matjaz

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02/04/2015 10:26 AM
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Re: Ukraine mega thread, NEWS,and DEBATE...
eng subs---mototrola in Uglegorsk



It isnt realy fair to throw new ukie recruits at NAF best units around Debaltsevo. Some of the new ones never hold the rifle on ukie side.
Anonymous Coward
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02/04/2015 10:29 AM
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Greece: Meaningful Economic Reforms Could Come Through BRICS and Russia?

[link to www.hellenicshippingnews.com]
 Quoting: firinne


Interesting article indeed. Thank you.

Small excerpt.

"The language used to describe the less-than-reformist platform of the Syriza Party is more radical than the actual, or rather literal, meaning of the program would seem to justify [4]. Absent is a call to nationalize any industries, let alone key industries, or industries of scale. There is a ‘promise’ to create a paltry 300,000 new jobs, in a country of 11 million people and an official unemployment rate of 26% [5]. Along with other critical industries presently in private and foreign hands, today Greece is the second largest gold mining country in Europe, and is projected to have the capacity to overtake Finland (the largest) in 2016 [6].
Why is there no call from Syriza to nationalize this critical industry (or any other industry)? Greece ought to have among the largest – or at least fastest growing – supplies of gold in their central bank in their neighborhood, and eventually in all of Europe. They could almost mine themselves out of debt, but they do not own their own gold mines and yet are in massive debt – paper money, printed on Brussels’ dictates, of which gold makes only a fraction of, is ‘lent’ to Greece, which it must repay through terms that are impossible. If Greece owned its own gold, depositing the gold in their central bank, it could ‘Grexit’ tomorrow, and print Drachma’s. It could ‘money multiply’, or monetize the gold, setting the value of the Drachma on a 3-1 ratio with the Euro, but holding one Euro worth of gold for every 100, 500, or even 1000 Drachma’s printed.
This move would provide plenty of liquidity, and a sovereign Greece would in relative time be able to re-industrialize along an import-substitution basis (ISI), choose their own trade partners, and, with this gold and productive capacity, even become a regional hegemon in their own right, between strong Turkey and weak Italy. This type of fractional reserve banking, solidly based in a precious metal, would be opposed to the monetization of foreign currency reserves – followed by endless and unjustifiable central bank emissions. Even at those figures it would be more conservative than what the EU presently does. As Sir Mervyn King, former Governor of the Bank of England once said “Textbooks assume that money is exogenous”… “In the United Kingdom, money is endogenous” [7]. We can add that this is true of the whole western banking establishment as well.
But what about Greek’s Central Bank anyhow? Well, there really isn’t a sovereign institution in Greece like a central bank to put that gold into. To the extent that there is one, it is privately owned as an S.A share company (S.A Corp) similar to the Federal Reserve in the US [8]. But in fact, there is another even bigger problem, for Greece here, and Syriza’s platform and program doesn’t address either one of them."

It will, I am very confident in that.

Take Care
firinne (OP)

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02/04/2015 10:29 AM

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Dagong has downgraded the US to A-because of Washington’s outstanding debt and the printing press policy, while Russia borrows less and in contrast with the US can pay its debts

[link to itar-tass.com]
Anonymous Coward
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02/04/2015 10:32 AM
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eng subs---mototrola in Uglegorsk



It isnt realy fair to throw new ukie recruits at NAF best units around Debaltsevo. Some of the new ones never hold the rifle on ukie side.
 Quoting: Matjaz


No war can be considered fair, otherwise I agree, and my heart bleeds for these innocent conscripts.

Take Care
Anonymous Coward
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02/04/2015 10:33 AM
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Dagong has downgraded the US to A-because of Washington’s outstanding debt and the printing press policy, while Russia borrows less and in contrast with the US can pay its debts

[link to itar-tass.com]
 Quoting: firinne


Tides are indeed turning and gets momentum almost daily.

Take Care
Tamonten

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Russian Federation
02/04/2015 10:34 AM
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This article by The Saker is priceless.. below is just a very small excerpt.


From Napoleon to Adolf Hitler to Conchita Wurst

This latest crisis in the Ukraine really did "break" something in the Russian national awareness and now I think that the prevailing feeling in Russia about the West is simply disgust.


The new Europe
Disgust with the total hypocrisy of standing in theory for one thing and in supporting its exact opposite.
Disgust with an entire political system built on lies.
Disgust with a society which values homosexual "rights" to adopt children much more then the right of Novorussian children to live.
Disgust with the obscene whining of millions of "Charlies" combined the total heartless indifference towards thousands of killed civilians every day.
Disgust with an EU subservience to the USA even when it clearly goes against one own's national interest.
Disgust with a society which bans Nazi symbols or even an honest investigation of the so-called "Holocaust" but sends billions of dollars in support of Nazis in Kiev.
Disgust with a society which did not have the moral fiber to resist Hitler and which had to be freed from Hitler by Stalin.
Disgust for a society which now apparently "forgot" who freed it from Hitler.
Disgust for a society which is willing to commit economic seppuku just to please its imperial overlord, Uncle Sam.
Disgust with central Europeans for having nothing more to offer to their new masters then a competition of which country can be most hysterically anti-Russian (Poland and Latvia win) even though they all had it much better then Russia under Communist rule.

If Napoleon was hated and Hitler was feared, Conchita Wurst is simply despised. Even the Russian liberals, who still get plenty of time on Russian TV, now find nothing better to say than "our government is every bit as bad the those in the West" - hardly an enthusiastic response. The fact is that for all practical purposes, and for the first time in over 300 years, there really is no more truly pro-European or pro-Western camp in Russia, not in the elites, not amongst the common people. Oh sure, there are still plenty of 5th columnists in the top echelons of power (we have the West of 1980s and 1990s to thank for that too), but they cannot openly show their face and promote their ideas. Even they now have to pretend that they are disgusted with West and "patriotic". This process is made even deeper by another very important factor:

Much more at link.

[link to vineyardsaker.blogspot.no]

Take Care
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 67697908


Well, yeah. That's pretty much right. And on

"Disgust with a society which did not have the moral fiber to resist Hitler and which had to be freed from Hitler by Stalin.
Disgust for a society which now apparently "forgot" who freed it from Hitler."


- I use it as opportunity to quote Pushkin's poem from 19th century once again. It was said about Napoleon, but there's no much difference with Hitler's case.

And, frankly, you are hating us…

Why? On the grounds that, on the ashes
Of blazing Moscow, we refused
To buy the power of the brash, who
You trembled underneath, subdued?
Respond: because we sent the idol,
Who’d been predominating kingdoms, to abyss,
Thus having paid with our lifeblood
For Europe’s freedom, state and peace?..

- from "ODE TO DEFAMERS OF RUSSIA (1831)" by Alexander Pushkin
translated by Vyacheslav Chetin
[link to www.stihi.ru]
"When every one is dead the Great Game is finished. Not before." - Rudyard Kipling, "Kim" (1901)
"But we are still alive." - Thread: "The Great Game" by Mikhail Leontyev (2007-2008)

"Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination." - Brandon Sanderson, "The Way of Kings"
"Russia is the great Christian country with rich Islamic history" - Vladimir Solovyov (Russian Jew)
Quos Iupiter perdere vult, dementat.
"Europe can wait while the Russian tsar fishes." - Alexander III The Peacemaker

Thread: I'm Russian – ask me a question. Be it about Russia or a personal one.
Thread: From Rus' to Russia - grand concert on the Red Square, June 12th 2015 - please help with translation!

Remember that future is always proceeded by its shadows.
firinne (OP)

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02/04/2015 10:38 AM

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Re: Ukraine mega thread, NEWS,and DEBATE...
Dagong has downgraded the US to A-because of Washington’s outstanding debt and the printing press policy, while Russia borrows less and in contrast with the US can pay its debts

[link to itar-tass.com]
 Quoting: firinne


Tides are indeed turning and gets momentum almost daily.

Take Care
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10713874


China may be joining the axis of evil soon, along with the likes of ISIS and RT banana2
Matjaz

User ID: 66077394
Slovenia
02/04/2015 10:44 AM
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Re: Ukraine mega thread, NEWS,and DEBATE...
Dagong has downgraded the US to A-because of Washington’s outstanding debt and the printing press policy, while Russia borrows less and in contrast with the US can pay its debts

[link to itar-tass.com]
 Quoting: firinne


Tides are indeed turning and gets momentum almost daily.

Take Care
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10713874


China may be joining the axis of evil soon, along with the likes of ISIS and RT banana2
 Quoting: firinne


No we dont want ISIS, its bad enough we drag north Korea with us grumpy2

...and dont ask me who is "we" chuckle
Anonymous Coward
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02/04/2015 10:52 AM
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GDP per capita growth. 2000-14

China 353%
India 176%
Russia 136%
Indonesia 127%
Turkey 91%
Germany 57%
UK 51%
USA 50%
Japan 47%
Matjaz

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02/04/2015 10:55 AM
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Re: Ukraine mega thread, NEWS,and DEBATE...
Debaltseve : ATO Orcs preparing hurrican shells




Last Edited by Matjaz on 02/04/2015 10:56 AM
KneelB4Zod!
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02/04/2015 10:56 AM

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AJSB ‏@A_J_S_B · 31 min.
VIDEO:
#Ukraine forces convoy burning in/near #Debaltseve.
[link to youtu.be]


[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
“You don’t fear death, you welcome it. Your punishment must be more severe.” Bane

"Prefiero morir de pie que vivir de rodillas. (I'd rather die on my feet, than live on my knees.)" Emiliano Zapata

Thread: So The Spy Services Are The Real Internet Trolls / Vault 7, Year Zero, p. 6 (Page 6)

Worth to check: [link to firstlook.org (secure)]

Daily updated archive - [link to www.matthewaid.com]

"This is not a new world, it is simply an extension of what began in the old one. It has patterned itself after every dictator who has ever planted the ripping imprint of a boot on the pages of history since the beginning of time. It has refinements, technological advances, and a more sophisticated approach to the destruction of human freedom. But like every one of the super-states that preceded it, it has one iron rule: logic is an enemy and truth is a menace." - "The Obsolete Man" - The Twilight Zone, 1961
KneelB4Zod!
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02/04/2015 11:01 AM

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Re: Ukraine mega thread, NEWS,and DEBATE...
Enrico Ivanov ‏@VonHenrick1 · 2 h
SIT REP Ukies are indiscriminately shelling entire territory of #Donetsk from positions in #Krasnogorovka! People take refuge in basements!

Enrico Ivanov ‏@VonHenrick1 · 1 hod
SIT REP #Yenakyevo, #Telmanovo and #Komsomolsk are also under Ukrainian shellings! #DNR
#SaveDonbassPeople

Enrico Ivanov ‏@VonHenrick1 · 1 hod.
SIT REP Fighting resumed at C.P.29, N of #Donetskyi! NAF artillerists have destroyed a warehouse and 2 tanks in W part of #Popasnaya! #LNR
“You don’t fear death, you welcome it. Your punishment must be more severe.” Bane

"Prefiero morir de pie que vivir de rodillas. (I'd rather die on my feet, than live on my knees.)" Emiliano Zapata

Thread: So The Spy Services Are The Real Internet Trolls / Vault 7, Year Zero, p. 6 (Page 6)

Worth to check: [link to firstlook.org (secure)]

Daily updated archive - [link to www.matthewaid.com]

"This is not a new world, it is simply an extension of what began in the old one. It has patterned itself after every dictator who has ever planted the ripping imprint of a boot on the pages of history since the beginning of time. It has refinements, technological advances, and a more sophisticated approach to the destruction of human freedom. But like every one of the super-states that preceded it, it has one iron rule: logic is an enemy and truth is a menace." - "The Obsolete Man" - The Twilight Zone, 1961
KneelB4Zod!
Citizen of the State

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02/04/2015 11:08 AM

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AJSB ‏@A_J_S_B · 3 min.
VIDEO:
NAF armor in combat in #Debaltseve area.
[link to youtu.be]


[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
“You don’t fear death, you welcome it. Your punishment must be more severe.” Bane

"Prefiero morir de pie que vivir de rodillas. (I'd rather die on my feet, than live on my knees.)" Emiliano Zapata

Thread: So The Spy Services Are The Real Internet Trolls / Vault 7, Year Zero, p. 6 (Page 6)

Worth to check: [link to firstlook.org (secure)]

Daily updated archive - [link to www.matthewaid.com]

"This is not a new world, it is simply an extension of what began in the old one. It has patterned itself after every dictator who has ever planted the ripping imprint of a boot on the pages of history since the beginning of time. It has refinements, technological advances, and a more sophisticated approach to the destruction of human freedom. But like every one of the super-states that preceded it, it has one iron rule: logic is an enemy and truth is a menace." - "The Obsolete Man" - The Twilight Zone, 1961
KneelB4Zod!
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02/04/2015 11:12 AM

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Re: Ukraine mega thread, NEWS,and DEBATE...
Novorossiyan artillery working on enemy positions:


[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
“You don’t fear death, you welcome it. Your punishment must be more severe.” Bane

"Prefiero morir de pie que vivir de rodillas. (I'd rather die on my feet, than live on my knees.)" Emiliano Zapata

Thread: So The Spy Services Are The Real Internet Trolls / Vault 7, Year Zero, p. 6 (Page 6)

Worth to check: [link to firstlook.org (secure)]

Daily updated archive - [link to www.matthewaid.com]

"This is not a new world, it is simply an extension of what began in the old one. It has patterned itself after every dictator who has ever planted the ripping imprint of a boot on the pages of history since the beginning of time. It has refinements, technological advances, and a more sophisticated approach to the destruction of human freedom. But like every one of the super-states that preceded it, it has one iron rule: logic is an enemy and truth is a menace." - "The Obsolete Man" - The Twilight Zone, 1961
PorkyWaltzman

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02/04/2015 11:15 AM
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Re: Ukraine mega thread, NEWS,and DEBATE...
Alex Bukovsky ‏@BungeeWedgie 6m6 minutes ago
#Ukraine soldiers run 4 their lives fr a tank, that turns out to be their own. No wonder they see #Russia n invasion
KneelB4Zod!
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02/04/2015 11:16 AM

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Re: Ukraine mega thread, NEWS,and DEBATE...
Old Soviet T-34 in the streets of Donetsk:


[link to youtu.be]
“You don’t fear death, you welcome it. Your punishment must be more severe.” Bane

"Prefiero morir de pie que vivir de rodillas. (I'd rather die on my feet, than live on my knees.)" Emiliano Zapata

Thread: So The Spy Services Are The Real Internet Trolls / Vault 7, Year Zero, p. 6 (Page 6)

Worth to check: [link to firstlook.org (secure)]

Daily updated archive - [link to www.matthewaid.com]

"This is not a new world, it is simply an extension of what began in the old one. It has patterned itself after every dictator who has ever planted the ripping imprint of a boot on the pages of history since the beginning of time. It has refinements, technological advances, and a more sophisticated approach to the destruction of human freedom. But like every one of the super-states that preceded it, it has one iron rule: logic is an enemy and truth is a menace." - "The Obsolete Man" - The Twilight Zone, 1961
Matjaz

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Slovenia
02/04/2015 11:17 AM
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Novorossiyan artillery working on enemy positions:


[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
 Quoting: KneelB4Zod!


...that's some fast reloading. looks like they in a hurry to get somewhere.
PorkyWaltzman

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02/04/2015 11:26 AM
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Re: Ukraine mega thread, NEWS,and DEBATE...
Novorossiyan artillery working on enemy positions:


[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
 Quoting: KneelB4Zod!


...that's some fast reloading. looks like they in a hurry to get somewhere.
 Quoting: Matjaz


they have like 5-7 minutes to fire and gtfo from there or else counter strike may come from ukrops. You know they got those new fancy radars from the us and all
Matjaz

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Slovenia
02/04/2015 11:26 AM
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Re: Ukraine mega thread, NEWS,and DEBATE...
Alex Bukovsky ‏@BungeeWedgie 6m6 minutes ago
#Ukraine soldiers run 4 their lives fr a tank, that turns out to be their own. No wonder they see #Russia n invasion

 Quoting: PorkyWaltzman


they conscripted cooks and waiters, no experience, frightened and low morale. this will be a cake walk once hold up ends, when civis are evacuated.

resist
PorkyWaltzman

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02/04/2015 11:29 AM
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Alex Bukovsky ‏@BungeeWedgie 6m6 minutes ago
#Ukraine soldiers run 4 their lives fr a tank, that turns out to be their own. No wonder they see #Russia n invasion

 Quoting: PorkyWaltzman


they conscripted cooks and waiters, no experience, frightened and low morale. this will be a cake walk once hold up ends, when civis are evacuated.

resist
 Quoting: Matjaz


yeah but not in Debaltsevo, I've seen the ukies there they have even better gear than NATO lol. Probably high salaries too. Basically if that falls ukies will have a hard time to hold on to the rest...
Anonymous Coward
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02/04/2015 11:33 AM
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Re: Ukraine mega thread, NEWS,and DEBATE...
This article by The Saker is priceless.. below is just a very small excerpt.


From Napoleon to Adolf Hitler to Conchita Wurst

This latest crisis in the Ukraine really did "break" something in the Russian national awareness and now I think that the prevailing feeling in Russia about the West is simply disgust.


The new Europe
Disgust with the total hypocrisy of standing in theory for one thing and in supporting its exact opposite.
Disgust with an entire political system built on lies.
Disgust with a society which values homosexual "rights" to adopt children much more then the right of Novorussian children to live.
Disgust with the obscene whining of millions of "Charlies" combined the total heartless indifference towards thousands of killed civilians every day.
Disgust with an EU subservience to the USA even when it clearly goes against one own's national interest.
Disgust with a society which bans Nazi symbols or even an honest investigation of the so-called "Holocaust" but sends billions of dollars in support of Nazis in Kiev.
Disgust with a society which did not have the moral fiber to resist Hitler and which had to be freed from Hitler by Stalin.
Disgust for a society which now apparently "forgot" who freed it from Hitler.
Disgust for a society which is willing to commit economic seppuku just to please its imperial overlord, Uncle Sam.
Disgust with central Europeans for having nothing more to offer to their new masters then a competition of which country can be most hysterically anti-Russian (Poland and Latvia win) even though they all had it much better then Russia under Communist rule.

If Napoleon was hated and Hitler was feared, Conchita Wurst is simply despised. Even the Russian liberals, who still get plenty of time on Russian TV, now find nothing better to say than "our government is every bit as bad the those in the West" - hardly an enthusiastic response. The fact is that for all practical purposes, and for the first time in over 300 years, there really is no more truly pro-European or pro-Western camp in Russia, not in the elites, not amongst the common people. Oh sure, there are still plenty of 5th columnists in the top echelons of power (we have the West of 1980s and 1990s to thank for that too), but they cannot openly show their face and promote their ideas. Even they now have to pretend that they are disgusted with West and "patriotic". This process is made even deeper by another very important factor:

Much more at link.

[link to vineyardsaker.blogspot.no]

Take Care
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 67697908


Well, yeah. That's pretty much right. And on

"Disgust with a society which did not have the moral fiber to resist Hitler and which had to be freed from Hitler by Stalin.
Disgust for a society which now apparently "forgot" who freed it from Hitler."


- I use it as opportunity to quote Pushkin's poem from 19th century once again. It was said about Napoleon, but there's no much difference with Hitler's case.

And, frankly, you are hating us…

Why? On the grounds that, on the ashes
Of blazing Moscow, we refused
To buy the power of the brash, who
You trembled underneath, subdued?
Respond: because we sent the idol,
Who’d been predominating kingdoms, to abyss,
Thus having paid with our lifeblood
For Europe’s freedom, state and peace?..

- from "ODE TO DEFAMERS OF RUSSIA (1831)" by Alexander Pushkin
translated by Vyacheslav Chetin
[link to www.stihi.ru]
 Quoting: Tamonten


Didn't know that poem. Thank you.

May I take the opportunity to thank you for the vast number of posts on the original thread, and do not blush please.

In my opinion you have kept a straight, honest and sincere line in all your posts that deserves respect (And believe me I have read them all).

In addition, you have contributed to very interesting journeys into different cultures and conceptual contexts, that at least to me has been refreshingly new.

Thank you

Keep it up please

Take Care
Kent


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