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I wonder how those who claim "no such thing as Palestine" are so completely oblivious of history

 
Palestina Salutaris
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02/22/2015 02:44 PM
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I wonder how those who claim "no such thing as Palestine" are so completely oblivious of history
Are there any morons here who do not think there is such a thing as Palestine and would like a history lesson?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/22/2015 02:46 PM
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Re: I wonder how those who claim "no such thing as Palestine" are so completely oblivious of history
Syria Palaestina?
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2015 02:53 PM
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Re: I wonder how those who claim "no such thing as Palestine" are so completely oblivious of history
Are you talking about the Ex-British Colony?
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2015 02:54 PM
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Re: I wonder how those who claim "no such thing as Palestine" are so completely oblivious of history
Are there any morons here who do not think there is such a thing as Palestine and would like a history lesson?
 Quoting: Palestina Salutaris 63262345


not from you, you're obviously an idiot if you think "Palestine" ever existed.

Fakestine and Fakestinians are more appropriate these days.
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2015 02:54 PM
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Re: I wonder how those who claim "no such thing as Palestine" are so completely oblivious of history
You mean the Roman Empires renaming attempt to erase any vestiges of Judea whom they forced into the Diaspora?
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2015 02:55 PM
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Re: I wonder how those who claim "no such thing as Palestine" are so completely oblivious of history
Bomb Palestine now and all the trouble makers living there

Blast their ass off the planet NOW!!!
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/22/2015 03:08 PM
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Re: I wonder how those who claim "no such thing as Palestine" are so completely oblivious of history
You mean the Roman Empires renaming attempt to erase any vestiges of Judea whom they forced into the Diaspora?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32501737


Yes, then the subsequent recognition of the territory as Palestine with a majority non-Jewish populace for the subsequent 2000 years.

The Roman renaming of what was first the Tetrarchy, then Judea, was derived from the term Phillistine.

Israel and Judea existence: 1000 years

Palestine: 2000 years


Whose history are you trying to minimalize again?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/22/2015 03:08 PM
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Re: I wonder how those who claim "no such thing as Palestine" are so completely oblivious of history
Bomb Palestine now and all the trouble makers living there

Blast their ass off the planet NOW!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 68281601


Couldn't possibly care less if you did, but how does that change the historical record?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/22/2015 03:09 PM
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Re: I wonder how those who claim "no such thing as Palestine" are so completely oblivious of history
Are there any morons here who do not think there is such a thing as Palestine and would like a history lesson?
 Quoting: Palestina Salutaris 63262345


not from you, you're obviously an idiot if you think "Palestine" ever existed.

Fakestine and Fakestinians are more appropriate these days.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35657415


Would you like to provide an argument or just continue to pout and stomp your feet?
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2015 03:10 PM
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Re: I wonder how those who claim "no such thing as Palestine" are so completely oblivious of history
You mean the Roman Empires renaming attempt to erase any vestiges of Judea whom they forced into the Diaspora?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32501737


Yes, then the subsequent recognition of the territory as Palestine with a majority non-Jewish populace for the subsequent 2000 years.

The Roman renaming of what was first the Tetrarchy, then Judea, was derived from the term Phillistine.

Israel and Judea existence: 1000 years

Palestine: 2000 years


Whose history are you trying to minimalize again?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 63262345


Philistines and Philistia were gone many century's before the Judean's were scattered.
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2015 03:10 PM
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Re: I wonder how those who claim "no such thing as Palestine" are so completely oblivious of history
Are there any morons here who do not think there is such a thing as Palestine and would like a history lesson?
 Quoting: Palestina Salutaris 63262345


Learn something:

[link to allaboutmuhammad.com]
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2015 03:14 PM
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Re: I wonder how those who claim "no such thing as Palestine" are so completely oblivious of history
Are there any morons here who do not think there is such a thing as Palestine and would like a history lesson?
 Quoting: Palestina Salutaris 63262345


not from you, you're obviously an idiot if you think "Palestine" ever existed.

Fakestine and Fakestinians are more appropriate these days.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35657415


Would you like to provide an argument or just continue to pout and stomp your feet?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 63262345


lol, there is nothing to argue.....there are no fakestinians today as there is no real fakestine.
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2015 03:15 PM
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Re: I wonder how those who claim "no such thing as Palestine" are so completely oblivious of history
Are you talking about the Ex-British Colony?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 68267554


No, I am talking about every occupying force of the territory calling it Palestine since 136 CE, minus the Kingdom of Jerusalem the First Crusaders were able to carve out of it.

Even the Kingdom of Jerusalem however had a small Jewish population, despite its name.

Even the Christian Byzantines officially named the province Palestine.
Revo/elation

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02/22/2015 03:17 PM
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Re: I wonder how those who claim "no such thing as Palestine" are so completely oblivious of history
a paid plo backer ?
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2015 03:32 PM
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Re: I wonder how those who claim "no such thing as Palestine" are so completely oblivious of history
Are there any morons here who do not think there is such a thing as Palestine and would like a history lesson?
 Quoting: Palestina Salutaris 63262345


Learn something:

[link to allaboutmuhammad.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 57858205

"No nation, other than the ancient nation of Israel and later again in 1948, with the rebirth of the 2nd Nation of Israel, has ever ruled as a sovereign national entity on this land."

Wrong. The Kingdom of Jerusalem was a sovereign national entity on "this land" for 200 years.

The author is not only a terrible writer, but has terrible reasoning skills. Simply because there as not been a sovereign Arab Palestinian state does not mean there is no such thing as Palestine.

In fact, the idea that simply because the people of Palestine, who are genetically distinct from Gulf Arabs, do not have a history simply because they now speak a version of Levantine Arabic is absolutely preposterous. It is the exact equivalent of saying that Scots, Irish, and Welsh have absolutely no history because they now speak English... insanity.

The fact of the matter is, there were non-Jews who lived in a land called Palestine for nearly 2000 years under the rule of various conquerers. I am not sure how their geographic location, which made them a prime target for different conquests in all directions, nullifies their existence.

Also, although not Arabic, which has nothing to do with anything, sovereign Palestinian states existed before the Jewish conquest of their land. These sovereign city states operated much like Greek city states, or are you going to tell me that there is no such thing as Greece either because there was never in history a sovereign, unified Greek state, the Hellenic Republic, until the early 19th century? Same goes for a plethora of nations...

My goodness, the ignorance is astounding.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/22/2015 03:39 PM
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Re: I wonder how those who claim "no such thing as Palestine" are so completely oblivious of history
a paid plo backer ?
 Quoting: Revo/elation


putin

Not paid, and certainly am a 'Zionist' in that I support the Jewish right to their own state. I simply do not support the current construction of the arrangement as I will never support anti-intellectualism and the denial of facts.

Fact, there was a people with a history living in what was long considered Palestinian land prior to Jewish emigration from Europe after the second World War. Fact, these 'natives' were not hostile to the newly arrived immigrants, it was actually the other way around.

But who am I to say they have no right to the land because they conquered it? I am an American after all, so I won't. But gross ignorance just worsens the problem, it doesn't better it.

Another fact, no Arab people in the region, of both the Oriens and also North Africa, have a high of a standard of living as Arab Israelis. Yet to say there are no Palestinians and they have no right to anything besides pack up and move to Jordan is certainly not based on reasoning, at least from a historical perspective, which is the entire point of this thread.

The point is to educate, not to condemn Israel, nor to promote Arab nationalism nor Islam as I am opposed to both. Although I prefer Saddam to ISIS any day...
Anonymous Coward
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Re: I wonder how those who claim "no such thing as Palestine" are so completely oblivious of history
You mean the Roman Empires renaming attempt to erase any vestiges of Judea whom they forced into the Diaspora?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32501737


Yes, then the subsequent recognition of the territory as Palestine with a majority non-Jewish populace for the subsequent 2000 years.

The Roman renaming of what was first the Tetrarchy, then Judea, was derived from the term Phillistine.

Israel and Judea existence: 1000 years

Palestine: 2000 years


Whose history are you trying to minimalize again?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 63262345


Philistines and Philistia were gone many century's before the Judean's were scattered.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32501737


Not just many centuries but a millenia at least. Yet, 136 CE to 1948 is still 1800 years, just Palestinian history, a name that comes from the non Jewish forbears of the land.
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2015 03:47 PM
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Re: I wonder how those who claim "no such thing as Palestine" are so completely oblivious of history
Before WW1, not a shot had been fired on German soil yet Germany was offering England peace terms. They offered England a negotiated peace on what the lawyers call a status quo ante basis, which means: "Let’s call the war off and let everything be as it was before the war started."
England, in the summer of 1916, was considering Germany’s peace terms. They had no choice. It was either accepting this negotiated peace that Germany was offering them or going on with the war and being totally defeated.
While that was going on, the Zionists in Germany, led by Chaim Weitzman, who later became the 1st President of Israel, went to the British War Cabinet and said: "Don’t capitulate to Germany. You can win this war if the United States comes in as your ally. We can arrange this. But in return, you must promise us Palestine once the tide turns in your favor.”
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2015 03:50 PM
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Re: I wonder how those who claim "no such thing as Palestine" are so completely oblivious of history
Are there any morons here who do not think there is such a thing as Palestine and would like a history lesson?
 Quoting: Palestina Salutaris 63262345


not from you, you're obviously an idiot if you think "Palestine" ever existed.

Fakestine and Fakestinians are more appropriate these days.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35657415


Would you like to provide an argument or just continue to pout and stomp your feet?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 63262345


lol, there is nothing to argue.....there are no fakestinians today as there is no real fakestine.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35657415


Fine, despite you have no ability to read I will still attempt to draw an argument out of you in Socratic fashion.

You say there is no such thing as a Palestinian, OK, then where does the term come from? When was it made up out of thin air to support a conspiracy to steal Jewish land?
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2015 03:57 PM
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Re: I wonder how those who claim "no such thing as Palestine" are so completely oblivious of history
Before WW1, not a shot had been fired on German soil yet Germany was offering England peace terms. They offered England a negotiated peace on what the lawyers call a status quo ante basis, which means: "Let’s call the war off and let everything be as it was before the war started."
England, in the summer of 1916, was considering Germany’s peace terms. They had no choice. It was either accepting this negotiated peace that Germany was offering them or going on with the war and being totally defeated.
While that was going on, the Zionists in Germany, led by Chaim Weitzman, who later became the 1st President of Israel, went to the British War Cabinet and said: "Don’t capitulate to Germany. You can win this war if the United States comes in as your ally. We can arrange this. But in return, you must promise us Palestine once the tide turns in your favor.”
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 68186298


Are you talking about the Landowne Letter? That was not a formal peace offering and upon its publication was widely criticized by the British press, I doubt Chaim Weizmann would have had to say anything to keep the British in the fight.

My gut tells me this claim of yours is bullshit from a white supremacist site but I am willing to look at your source if you would kindly direct me to it.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/22/2015 04:03 PM
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Re: I wonder how those who claim "no such thing as Palestine" are so completely oblivious of history
Oh btw Muslims, Muhammad never traveled to Jerusalem. Can we all start being grown ups instead of just making bullshit up? Seems to be on all sides.
Boss Moss

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02/22/2015 04:05 PM
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Re: I wonder how those who claim "no such thing as Palestine" are so completely oblivious of history
Are there any morons here who do not think there is such a thing as Palestine and would like a history lesson?
 Quoting: Palestina Salutaris 63262345


Sure, it existed as a region much like the Midwest exists. That doesn't mean the Midwest is a state.

Can you provide the names of some of the Palestinian kings, czars or presidents throughout history? What was the currency of Palestine?
Boss Moss

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02/22/2015 04:20 PM
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Re: I wonder how those who claim "no such thing as Palestine" are so completely oblivious of history
Are there any morons here who do not think there is such a thing as Palestine and would like a history lesson?
 Quoting: Palestina Salutaris 63262345


Sure, it existed as a region much like the Midwest exists. That doesn't mean the Midwest is a state.

Can you provide the names of some of the Palestinian kings, czars or presidents throughout history? What was the currency of Palestine?
 Quoting: Boss Moss


C'mon OP. You issued the challenge. I accepted.
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2015 04:24 PM
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Re: I wonder how those who claim "no such thing as Palestine" are so completely oblivious of history
Bomb Palestine now and all the trouble makers living there

Blast their ass off the planet NOW!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 68281601


Are you talking to us?

We don't have bombs you muppet.
Boss Moss

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02/22/2015 04:28 PM
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Re: I wonder how those who claim "no such thing as Palestine" are so completely oblivious of history
Are there any morons here who do not think there is such a thing as Palestine and would like a history lesson?
 Quoting: Palestina Salutaris 63262345


Sure, it existed as a region much like the Midwest exists. That doesn't mean the Midwest is a state.

Can you provide the names of some of the Palestinian kings, czars or presidents throughout history? What was the currency of Palestine?
 Quoting: Boss Moss


C'mon OP. You issued the challenge. I accepted.
 Quoting: Boss Moss


Anonymous Coward
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Re: I wonder how those who claim "no such thing as Palestine" are so completely oblivious of history
Are there any morons here who do not think there is such a thing as Palestine and would like a history lesson?
 Quoting: Palestina Salutaris 63262345


Sure, it existed as a region much like the Midwest exists. That doesn't mean the Midwest is a state.

Can you provide the names of some of the Palestinian kings, czars or presidents throughout history? What was the currency of Palestine?
 Quoting: Boss Moss

This has already been mentioned. First, why can a people not have a land and history unless they have a sovereign state, with formal borders, a currency and a king? Under this logic, the native Americans don't exist.

Second, there most certainly was Palestinian states, just not an Arab Palestinian sovereign state.

The Bible mentions Jericho, Gaza, Ashdod, Ashkelon, Ekron and Gath as city states of Philistia.

This is what I would consider Palestinian city states. The person hellbent on nullifying anything deemed 'palestinian history' would fall into logical trappings know as "the runaway train fallacy" in denying this history if he did not deny the history of Greece and many other peoples and modern nations. There was never a sovereign German state until 1871... do you deny the history of Germany and its Roman origins of Germania?

Or, you would simply deny any connection to Philistia and its subsequent renaming of Palestine, which is just ridiculous. When a people are conquered, they don't just completely disappear, this did not even the neanderthals.

However, there the most recent piece of archaeological evidence does point in a different direction as to the origins, although I am not willing at this time to fully accept it. There is a Hittite expert who thinks the recent finding of King Taita and his description of his king Palistin is actually the origin of the term. IF this is the case, Palestinian history would fall under Syro-Hittite instead of Philistian.

Here is the expert and his book:

[link to books.google.nl]

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

As far as post 136 CE kings and currencies? Sure. The Roman empire and East Roman Empire and their denarius. The Rashidun, Umayyad, Abbasid, Fatimid caliphates. The Crusader era as there most certainly was a native population. The Ayyubids, Mamluks, then Ottomans.

In the modern era then the British as well as Egyptians and Jordanians. Btw, under the British they had their very own Palestine pound that was administered by their own central bank...
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2015 04:59 PM
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Re: I wonder how those who claim "no such thing as Palestine" are so completely oblivious of history
Are there any morons here who do not think there is such a thing as Palestine and would like a history lesson?
 Quoting: Palestina Salutaris 63262345


Sure, it existed as a region much like the Midwest exists. That doesn't mean the Midwest is a state.

Can you provide the names of some of the Palestinian kings, czars or presidents throughout history? What was the currency of Palestine?
 Quoting: Boss Moss


C'mon OP. You issued the challenge. I accepted.
 Quoting: Boss Moss


Well, you accepted but you certainly did not read the thread.

Generally, your enquiry would be considered non sequitur, although I did not treat it as such. Only someone grossly ignorant of history could possibly think that for a people to exist, for a culture to exist, for them to have a history and a right to the very land they live on, do they have to have in their history, a sovereign state representative of only their ethnic group that spoke the very language they speak today (which is impossible btw, a rudimentary understanding of linguistics would lead you to realize that even the very language we are speaking in now did not exist just half a millenia ago).
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2015 05:01 PM
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Re: I wonder how those who claim "no such thing as Palestine" are so completely oblivious of history
I have to go. I will be back tomorrow for those that want to "accept challenges" and then irrelevant humor (another logical fallacy).
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2015 05:02 PM
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Re: I wonder how those who claim "no such thing as Palestine" are so completely oblivious of history
Chill, its like saying theres no such thing as Atlantis.

people speak in PRESENT tense
Boss Moss

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02/22/2015 05:03 PM
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Re: I wonder how those who claim "no such thing as Palestine" are so completely oblivious of history
Are there any morons here who do not think there is such a thing as Palestine and would like a history lesson?
 Quoting: Palestina Salutaris 63262345


Sure, it existed as a region much like the Midwest exists. That doesn't mean the Midwest is a state.

Can you provide the names of some of the Palestinian kings, czars or presidents throughout history? What was the currency of Palestine?
 Quoting: Boss Moss

This has already been mentioned. First, why can a people not have a land and history unless they have a sovereign state, with formal borders, a currency and a king? Under this logic, the native Americans don't exist.

Second, there most certainly was Palestinian states, just not an Arab Palestinian sovereign state.

The Bible mentions Jericho, Gaza, Ashdod, Ashkelon, Ekron and Gath as city states of Philistia.

This is what I would consider Palestinian city states. The person hellbent on nullifying anything deemed 'palestinian history' would fall into logical trappings know as "the runaway train fallacy" in denying this history if he did not deny the history of Greece and many other peoples and modern nations. There was never a sovereign German state until 1871... do you deny the history of Germany and its Roman origins of Germania?

Or, you would simply deny any connection to Philistia and its subsequent renaming of Palestine, which is just ridiculous. When a people are conquered, they don't just completely disappear, this did not even the neanderthals.

However, there the most recent piece of archaeological evidence does point in a different direction as to the origins, although I am not willing at this time to fully accept it. There is a Hittite expert who thinks the recent finding of King Taita and his description of his king Palistin is actually the origin of the term. IF this is the case, Palestinian history would fall under Syro-Hittite instead of Philistian.

Here is the expert and his book:

[link to books.google.nl]

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

As far as post 136 CE kings and currencies? Sure. The Roman empire and East Roman Empire and their denarius. The Rashidun, Umayyad, Abbasid, Fatimid caliphates. The Crusader era as there most certainly was a native population. The Ayyubids, Mamluks, then Ottomans.

In the modern era then the British as well as Egyptians and Jordanians. Btw, under the British they had their very own Palestine pound that was administered by their own central bank...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 63261011


Never said they didn't have land. They lived in an area called 'Palestine'. It did not exist as a nation or 'state'.

American Indians had land and leaders of individual tribes but there was no nation called the United States or America or anything of the sort. Sure they lived here and there was land. Nobody disputes that just as nobody disputes Palestine consisted of land.

It was not a 'nation' or 'state', however - which has been the claim of Palestinitards in demanding a nation or state of Palestine. Doesn't mean they can't create it - but there is no historical record of Palestine existing as a nation or state. It was a region. Some of that region included Jordan, Lebanon and Syria - but supporters of a Palestinian state do not demand these nations give up land for a new nation or state of Palestine.

It is a movement that exists purely to harass Israel.

Last Edited by Boss Moss on 02/22/2015 05:05 PM
Anonymous Coward
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Re: I wonder how those who claim "no such thing as Palestine" are so completely oblivious of history
Are there any morons here who do not think there is such a thing as Palestine and would like a history lesson?
 Quoting: Palestina Salutaris 63262345


Sure, it existed as a region much like the Midwest exists. That doesn't mean the Midwest is a state.

Can you provide the names of some of the Palestinian kings, czars or presidents throughout history? What was the currency of Palestine?
 Quoting: Boss Moss

This has already been mentioned. First, why can a people not have a land and history unless they have a sovereign state, with formal borders, a currency and a king? Under this logic, the native Americans don't exist.

Second, there most certainly was Palestinian states, just not an Arab Palestinian sovereign state.

The Bible mentions Jericho, Gaza, Ashdod, Ashkelon, Ekron and Gath as city states of Philistia.

This is what I would consider Palestinian city states. The person hellbent on nullifying anything deemed 'palestinian history' would fall into logical trappings know as "the runaway train fallacy" in denying this history if he did not deny the history of Greece and many other peoples and modern nations. There was never a sovereign German state until 1871... do you deny the history of Germany and its Roman origins of Germania?

Or, you would simply deny any connection to Philistia and its subsequent renaming of Palestine, which is just ridiculous. When a people are conquered, they don't just completely disappear, this did not even the neanderthals.

However, there the most recent piece of archaeological evidence does point in a different direction as to the origins, although I am not willing at this time to fully accept it. There is a Hittite expert who thinks the recent finding of King Taita and his description of his king Palistin is actually the origin of the term. IF this is the case, Palestinian history would fall under Syro-Hittite instead of Philistian.

Here is the expert and his book:

[link to books.google.nl]

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

As far as post 136 CE kings and currencies? Sure. The Roman empire and East Roman Empire and their denarius. The Rashidun, Umayyad, Abbasid, Fatimid caliphates. The Crusader era as there most certainly was a native population. The Ayyubids, Mamluks, then Ottomans.

In the modern era then the British as well as Egyptians and Jordanians. Btw, under the British they had their very own Palestine pound that was administered by their own central bank...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 63261011


Never said they didn't have land. They lived in an area called 'Palestine'. It did not exist as a nation or 'state'.

American Indians had land and leaders of individual tribes but there was no nation called the United States or America or anything of the sort. Sure they lived here and there was land. Nobody disputes that just as nobody disputes Palestine consisted of land.

It was not a 'nation' or 'state', however - which has been the claim of Palestinitards in demanding a nation or state of Palestine. Doesn't mean they can't create it - but there is no historical record of Palestine existing as a nation or state. It was a region. Some of that region included Jordan, Lebanon and Syria - but supporters of a Palestinian state do not demand these nations givd up land for a new nation or state of Palestine.

It is a movement that exists purely to harass Israel.
 Quoting: Boss Moss




the zionist shill is strong with this^ one.





GLP