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AA/NA and 12 Step Programs - The Only Way To Stay Clean?

 
binaryse4
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03/29/2015 01:15 PM
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AA/NA and 12 Step Programs - The Only Way To Stay Clean?
My name's Michael and I'm a grateful recovering drug addict. It's been close to two years since I've taken a drug or had a drink. I'm in a 12 month after care program and mandated by the courts to attend NA/AA 12 Step meetings as well as work these steps with a sponsor with whom I'm to remain in regular, frequent contact with.

One thing that has been bothering me lately is that since my hitting bottom nearly two years ago and making that firm decision to never go back to using I have not struggled with any urges, cravings or desires to go out and get high. My sponsor, drug counselor and other peers in the "fellowship" claim that I am either complacent or so deeply entrenched in my own denial that I am blind to the addiction staring me right in the face.

As my life continues to improve other members find any and every reason to discredit the things that I am doing because I am not "working an honest program". I've been encouraged to leave my current girlfriend (who does not and has not ever used) because I should be focused on my recovery before a relationship with someone else. I've been warned that working two jobs will likely lead me to relapse since I can only attend my three mandatory NA meetings on the weekends.

I also do not subscribe to their big daddy in the sky concept of a Higher Power, nor do I believe I need to become a cowering, dejected and pathetic powerless individual. I don't believe that attending meetings for the rest of my life is the only way to stay clean and sober. And, well, quite frankly I don't see anyone at these meetings who has anything that I want nor do I feel they have anything to offer me in my recovery.

I hear people share how they have many years clean and yet each and every single day is a struggle for them just to keep from cashing their paycheck and blowing their hard earned income at the dope house. So often all I hear is bitching and moaning about how awful their life is today but thanks to some regurgitated cliches found in their literature these principles have been able to keep them clean.

My question to all of you, if you are a recovering addict, what kept you clean and sober? Whether or not you are an addict, what are your thoughts on AA/NA and other similar 12 Step Recovery Programs?
Ms. Superduper

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03/29/2015 01:20 PM
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Re: AA/NA and 12 Step Programs - The Only Way To Stay Clean?
I am not a recovering drug addict, but am in and have been in a 12 step program for a long time.

It works.

Do your steps.

If you are coming here for a way out, you are not convinced that you have a problem and therefore do not want to do the prescribed directions of said 12 step program.

Are there other ways? Why not do what the 12 step program suggests?

Oh, and you, as a drug addict, need the spiritual key.

Last Edited by Ms. Superduper on 03/29/2015 01:21 PM
Greater is He who is in me than he who is in the world.

Whatever feels good to your soul, do that.
binaryse4  (OP)

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03/29/2015 01:26 PM
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Re: AA/NA and 12 Step Programs - The Only Way To Stay Clean?
I am not a recovering drug addict, but am in and have been in a 12 step program for a long time.

It works.

Do your steps.

If you are coming here for a way out, you are not convinced that you have a problem and therefore do not want to do the prescribed directions of said 12 step program.

Are there other ways? Why not do what the 12 step program suggests?

Oh, and you, as a drug addict, need the spiritual key.
 Quoting: Ms. Superduper


I work my steps dilligently with a sponsor, I attend meetings. I'm not looking for another way out just gain some added clarity and looking at things from alternative perspectives. At the same time the program itself discourages me. I don't see the fruits nor the benefits. I don't accept the rigidity. What works for one addict does not work for every addict. What doesn't work for one addict should not necessarily be excluded by all the rest.
Anonymous Coward
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03/29/2015 01:31 PM
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Re: AA/NA and 12 Step Programs - The Only Way To Stay Clean?
You are right to be a little skeptical. The program can be very cultish, especially in terms of it being the only path to dealing with addictions. The success rates are pretty low as well, a fact that is often ignored.
Anonymous Coward
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03/29/2015 01:32 PM
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Re: AA/NA and 12 Step Programs - The Only Way To Stay Clean?
Many do it without AA. Myself included.
binaryse4  (OP)

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03/29/2015 01:34 PM
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Re: AA/NA and 12 Step Programs - The Only Way To Stay Clean?
Many do it without AA. Myself included.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 68754232


Would you mind giving me a nutshell version of your story? I'm always curious to hear other recovering or recovered addicts who got clean and stayed clean without AA/NA.
Anonymous Coward
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03/29/2015 01:35 PM
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Re: AA/NA and 12 Step Programs - The Only Way To Stay Clean?
Many do it without AA. Myself included.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 68754232


Would you mind giving me a nutshell version of your story? I'm always curious to hear other recovering or recovered addicts who got clean and stayed clean without AA/NA.
 Quoting: binaryse4


Antabuse for me. And I use recovery website as a reminder why I continue to be sober.
binaryse4  (OP)

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03/29/2015 01:36 PM
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Re: AA/NA and 12 Step Programs - The Only Way To Stay Clean?
You are right to be a little skeptical. The program can be very cultish, especially in terms of it being the only path to dealing with addictions. The success rates are pretty low as well, a fact that is often ignored.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10822578


This is a very thorough and very well researched collection of NA debunking material.

[link to www.orange-papers.org]
binaryse4  (OP)

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03/29/2015 01:42 PM
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Re: AA/NA and 12 Step Programs - The Only Way To Stay Clean?
Many do it without AA. Myself included.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 68754232


Would you mind giving me a nutshell version of your story? I'm always curious to hear other recovering or recovered addicts who got clean and stayed clean without AA/NA.
 Quoting: binaryse4


Antabuse for me. And I use recovery website as a reminder why I continue to be sober.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 68754232


What is antabuse? A medication?
Anonymous Coward
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03/29/2015 01:42 PM
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Re: AA/NA and 12 Step Programs - The Only Way To Stay Clean?
You are right to be a little skeptical. The program can be very cultish, especially in terms of it being the only path to dealing with addictions. The success rates are pretty low as well, a fact that is often ignored.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10822578


This is a very thorough and very well researched collection of NA debunking material.

[link to www.orange-papers.org]
 Quoting: binaryse4

So you already know...
Anonymous Coward
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03/29/2015 01:43 PM
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Re: AA/NA and 12 Step Programs - The Only Way To Stay Clean?
Many do it without AA. Myself included.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 68754232


Would you mind giving me a nutshell version of your story? I'm always curious to hear other recovering or recovered addicts who got clean and stayed clean without AA/NA.
 Quoting: binaryse4


Antabuse for me. And I use recovery website as a reminder why I continue to be sober.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 68754232


What is antabuse? A medication?
 Quoting: binaryse4


Yeah, if you drink on it, it makes you sick and you can't really get drunk on it. It works well for me. Take a pill each day.
Ms. Superduper

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03/29/2015 01:43 PM
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Re: AA/NA and 12 Step Programs - The Only Way To Stay Clean?
I am not a recovering drug addict, but am in and have been in a 12 step program for a long time.

It works.

Do your steps.

If you are coming here for a way out, you are not convinced that you have a problem and therefore do not want to do the prescribed directions of said 12 step program.

Are there other ways? Why not do what the 12 step program suggests?

Oh, and you, as a drug addict, need the spiritual key.
 Quoting: Ms. Superduper


I work my steps dilligently with a sponsor, I attend meetings. I'm not looking for another way out just gain some added clarity and looking at things from alternative perspectives. At the same time the program itself discourages me. I don't see the fruits nor the benefits. I don't accept the rigidity. What works for one addict does not work for every addict. What doesn't work for one addict should not necessarily be excluded by all the rest.
 Quoting: binaryse4


Baby, you're making excuses and acting unique. You are NOT unique to the program.
Greater is He who is in me than he who is in the world.

Whatever feels good to your soul, do that.
Anonymous Coward
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03/29/2015 01:44 PM
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Re: AA/NA and 12 Step Programs - The Only Way To Stay Clean?
This is the website I use,

[link to www.soberrecovery.com]

Lots of help and support here. Many are sober without needing AA/NA. Check it out.
Ms. Superduper

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03/29/2015 01:45 PM
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Re: AA/NA and 12 Step Programs - The Only Way To Stay Clean?
Well, I see you are getting the cop out comments you desire.

You 'could' have a zap out spiritual experience. Message me.
Greater is He who is in me than he who is in the world.

Whatever feels good to your soul, do that.
binaryse4  (OP)

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03/29/2015 01:45 PM
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Re: AA/NA and 12 Step Programs - The Only Way To Stay Clean?
You are right to be a little skeptical. The program can be very cultish, especially in terms of it being the only path to dealing with addictions. The success rates are pretty low as well, a fact that is often ignored.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10822578


This is a very thorough and very well researched collection of NA debunking material.

[link to www.orange-papers.org]
 Quoting: binaryse4

So you already know...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10822578


I do what I have to do. I have no choice but to attend meetings, work with a sponsor, do step work, etc. The problem is that I have to fake it until I make it. The meetings and the over all vibe of the members is extremely draining and I hate being around other former addicts and hearing their stories because often times they remind me of the way I used to be in my active addiction. It all seems like beating a dead horse, honestly.
Anonymous Coward
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03/29/2015 01:45 PM
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Re: AA/NA and 12 Step Programs - The Only Way To Stay Clean?
Success rate with these faith healing groups is so low you may as well say its the only way to NOT stay clean cruise
binaryse4  (OP)

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03/29/2015 01:46 PM
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Re: AA/NA and 12 Step Programs - The Only Way To Stay Clean?
Well, I see you are getting the cop out comments you desire.

You 'could' have a zap out spiritual experience. Message me.
 Quoting: Ms. Superduper


I don't think we can message each other because I'm not a paid member.
Anonymous Coward
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03/29/2015 01:46 PM
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Re: AA/NA and 12 Step Programs - The Only Way To Stay Clean?
Exercise, Water, Weed, & Psychedelics.
Anonymous Coward
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03/29/2015 01:46 PM
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Re: AA/NA and 12 Step Programs - The Only Way To Stay Clean?
Also, AVRT helps many.

[link to www.rational.org]
binaryse4  (OP)

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03/29/2015 01:46 PM
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Re: AA/NA and 12 Step Programs - The Only Way To Stay Clean?
Exercise, Water, Weed, & Psychedelics.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10822578


No thanks.
Anonymous Coward
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03/29/2015 01:46 PM
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Re: AA/NA and 12 Step Programs - The Only Way To Stay Clean?
Well, I see you are getting the cop out comments you desire.

You 'could' have a zap out spiritual experience. Message me.
 Quoting: Ms. Superduper


Cop out comments?
binaryse4  (OP)

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03/29/2015 01:47 PM
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Re: AA/NA and 12 Step Programs - The Only Way To Stay Clean?
Also, AVRT helps many.

[link to www.rational.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 68754232


I enjoyed Jack Trimpey's The Small Book. Good stuff!
Ms. Superduper

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03/29/2015 01:47 PM
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Re: AA/NA and 12 Step Programs - The Only Way To Stay Clean?
You are right to be a little skeptical. The program can be very cultish, especially in terms of it being the only path to dealing with addictions. The success rates are pretty low as well, a fact that is often ignored.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10822578


This is a very thorough and very well researched collection of NA debunking material.

[link to www.orange-papers.org]
 Quoting: binaryse4

So you already know...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10822578


I do what I have to do. I have no choice but to attend meetings, work with a sponsor, do step work, etc. The problem is that I have to fake it until I make it. The meetings and the over all vibe of the members is extremely draining and I hate being around other former addicts and hearing their stories because often times they remind me of the way I used to be in my active addiction. It all seems like beating a dead horse, honestly.
 Quoting: binaryse4


I've heard your comments all of the time from people who wanted to go out more than they wanted to change. They always went back out eventually. The choice is yours and no body else's.

It's your life. You didn't end up there by mistake.
Greater is He who is in me than he who is in the world.

Whatever feels good to your soul, do that.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
03/29/2015 01:50 PM
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Re: AA/NA and 12 Step Programs - The Only Way To Stay Clean?
Exercise, Water, Weed, & Psychedelics.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10822578


No thanks.
 Quoting: binaryse4


Bill W. often used lSd himself and was a proponent of it's therapeutic value in treating addictions. Just saying...
dergle
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03/29/2015 01:51 PM
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Re: AA/NA and 12 Step Programs - The Only Way To Stay Clean?
Ive had, and completed most, every imaginable rehab.

Im a firm believer in one true, hard, cold fact. It doesnt matter the program, it doesnt matter the method, the simple truth is that until you have had enough, you wont quit.

The sorry state of this planet though unfortunately lends itself to a goodly portion who never ever reach that point.

For them, until they find which that, that they want more, then they have had enough.

Does that make sense?


..
binaryse4  (OP)

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03/29/2015 01:51 PM
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Re: AA/NA and 12 Step Programs - The Only Way To Stay Clean?
...


This is a very thorough and very well researched collection of NA debunking material.

[link to www.orange-papers.org]
 Quoting: binaryse4

So you already know...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10822578


I do what I have to do. I have no choice but to attend meetings, work with a sponsor, do step work, etc. The problem is that I have to fake it until I make it. The meetings and the over all vibe of the members is extremely draining and I hate being around other former addicts and hearing their stories because often times they remind me of the way I used to be in my active addiction. It all seems like beating a dead horse, honestly.
 Quoting: binaryse4


I've heard your comments all of the time from people who wanted to go out more than they wanted to change. They always went back out eventually. The choice is yours and no body else's.

It's your life. You didn't end up there by mistake.
 Quoting: Ms. Superduper


Go back out? Are you fucking kidding me? You have absolutely no idea where I've come from or the things I've done. Drugs are not some "forbidden fruit" tempting me and seducing me. Drugs absolutely repulse me. The thought of getting high makes me physically sick. I've seen the fruits of my sobriety, the restored relationships, trust being regained with my family, accomplishing goals I never thought I could reach, a sense of self esteem, self worth and self value that I never once had in my active addiction. Why on earth would I go and fuck all this away for twenty or thirty minutes of some buzz or high? Believe what you will but there is nothing and no one that could convince me that going "back out" as you say would even remotely be a good idea.

Last Edited by ..... /... / on 03/29/2015 01:52 PM
Corkygreenstate

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03/29/2015 01:52 PM

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Re: AA/NA and 12 Step Programs - The Only Way To Stay Clean?
Inner strength is the key. No man made bullshit will ever help you. Your peers will not help you. It's only you that can help you.
The world just might end with me
binaryse4  (OP)

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03/29/2015 01:54 PM
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Re: AA/NA and 12 Step Programs - The Only Way To Stay Clean?
Ive had, and completed most, every imaginable rehab.

Im a firm believer in one true, hard, cold fact. It doesnt matter the program, it doesnt matter the method, the simple truth is that until you have had enough, you wont quit.

The sorry state of this planet though unfortunately lends itself to a goodly portion who never ever reach that point.

For them, until they find which that, that they want more, then they have had enough.

Does that make sense?


..
 Quoting: dergle 58684934


I whole heartedly agree. The problem with these meetings is that very few people believe that you have truly had enough and are constantly trying to foster this spirit of self doubt in those who say that they have.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 58684934
United States
03/29/2015 01:57 PM
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Re: AA/NA and 12 Step Programs - The Only Way To Stay Clean?
Ive had, and completed most, every imaginable rehab.

Im a firm believer in one true, hard, cold fact. It doesnt matter the program, it doesnt matter the method, the simple truth is that until you have had enough, you wont quit.

The sorry state of this planet though unfortunately lends itself to a goodly portion who never ever reach that point.

For them, until they find which that, that they want more, then they have had enough.

Does that make sense?


..
 Quoting: dergle 58684934


I whole heartedly agree. The problem with these meetings is that very few people believe that you have truly had enough and are constantly trying to foster this spirit of self doubt in those who say that they have.
 Quoting: binaryse4


12 step, and the like, the majority of the meetings in my opinion, are hoarded by those that like to grandstand, and they never get off that box. They're still sick. Look at look at me, and then they fill 75% of the air waves they waste, with a constant litany of bitch and moan, but i made it , one day at a time........

FUCK YOU~~~~

heheh i cant tell you how many meetings i went into not wanting one iota of getting high, only to leave and get just blitzed after hearing something so these sobs...
Anonymous Coward
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Ireland
03/29/2015 01:58 PM
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Re: AA/NA and 12 Step Programs - The Only Way To Stay Clean?
Ive had, and completed most, every imaginable rehab.

Im a firm believer in one true, hard, cold fact. It doesnt matter the program, it doesnt matter the method, the simple truth is that until you have had enough, you wont quit.

The sorry state of this planet though unfortunately lends itself to a goodly portion who never ever reach that point.

For them, until they find which that, that they want more, then they have had enough.

Does that make sense?


..
 Quoting: dergle 58684934


I whole heartedly agree. The problem with these meetings is that very few people believe that you have truly had enough and are constantly trying to foster this spirit of self doubt in those who say that they have.
 Quoting: binaryse4


12 step, and the like, the majority of the meetings in my opinion, are hoarded by those that like to grandstand, and they never get off that box. They're still sick. Look at look at me, and then they fill 75% of the air waves they waste, with a constant litany of bitch and moan, but i made it , one day at a time........

FUCK YOU~~~~

heheh i cant tell you how many meetings i went into not wanting one iota of getting high, only to leave and get just blitzed after hearing something so these sobs...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 58684934


lol so true.
Anonymous Coward
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03/29/2015 01:58 PM
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Re: AA/NA and 12 Step Programs - The Only Way To Stay Clean?
One year sober for me a week ago. Did 6mos. AA in the beginning. I too have been thru the mandatory meetings probation etc. But always went back to drinking and smoking. This time around I chose to stop. I feel I am a fuctioning alcoholic did so for 25 plus years. To me in the beginning AA was great due to the fact that I always felt alone and no one understood what I was going thru. They did welcome me but always felt like a bitchfest shoulda coulda woulda. Not trying to knock AA it did help I should say the members gave me hope. I tried doing the steps but to me what I needed the most was being able to talk my way thru and share and when you only are given 3mins and the rest of the hour is everyone else its hard to concentrate on yourself. That's what I needed to do my own soul searching to finally see myself to acknowledge myself forgive myself help myself. I do believe it's a selfish process or it can be as much as I want to save and share what I am learning toward others. I have to believe it and walk the talk at home first. I too was told not to be involved and I didn't listen inhind sight I see why my addiction hooked on to her and I did everything possible to fix that not Me. It's always something but I am patiently relearning what I thought was the right way to live.hf





GLP