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If Bush Orders Iran Bombing Without Congress Authorization, The Military MUST DISOBEY

 
Daughter of Lebanon
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If Bush Orders Iran Bombing Without Congress Authorization, The Military MUST DISOBEY
If Bush Orders Iran
Bombing Without Congress
Authorization, The
Military MUST DISOBEY
Unconstitutional Orders Must Be Disobeyed,
Even If They Are from the President Himself.
By Rev. Bill McGinnis
9-2-6

U. S. Military personnel are legally obligated to disobey any Unconstitutional orders, even if they are issued by the President himself. If they follow an Unconstitutional order, they violate their oath of office, and Department Of Defense officials face impeachment and removal from office.

The United States Constitution gives the power to start a war to Congress, not to the President. If the President starts a war without Congressional approval, that is clearly an Unconstitutional act.

As enumerated in Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution, Congress is given the exclusive power...

"To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;"

There has been more and more talk lately, regarding the possibility that President Bush might order a massive air strike on Iranian nuclear facilities and related targets. The supposed justification would be something like, "Iran is disregarding the United Nations Security Council and is working to develop nuclear weapons for terrorists to use against the United States."

Where have we heard false statements like this before? In the lead-up to our invasion of Iraq, of course! Congress fell for this argument the first time, and tragically authorized the President to use force against Iraq. Bush then stretched this authorization into the self-inflicted fiasco we are now stuck with in Iraq.

But Congress is not likely to make this same mistake again, especially since there is no immediate threat from Iran, as there supposedly was from Iraq. So there will be no such Congressional authorization to use force this time.

But what if Bush decides to go ahead anyway, without Congressional authorization? He would falsely claim his bogus "inherent powers" to do whatever he feels like doing as Commander In Chief "to protect national security," whether Congress likes it or not. And then he would simply order our Military to bomb Iran.

And I believe this is exactly what he is planning to do. But there is something everybody needs to understand, before Bush tries to do this: Any official of the United States Government - Military or Civilian - who knowingly follows an Unconstitutional order, violates his oath of office. Civilian officials are subject to impeachment and removal from office. Therefore, each Military officer or other Government official is legally obligated to disobey any such order that might come from President Bush. And Bush himself needs to know this, too.

Here is the oath of office, below. Please note that each official swears to "support and defend" the Constitution, not to obey the President. The President must be obeyed only when he is following the Constitution.


United States Code, Title V, Sec. 3331. Oath of office

An individual, except the President, elected or appointed to an office of honor or profit in the civil service or uniformed services, shall take the following oath: "I, AB, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God." This section does not affect other oaths required by law.

And here is the provision for impeachment and removal from office, as given in Article II, Section 4...

"The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, hall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors."

Deliberately violating the Constitution - particularly in such an important matter as starting a war - would be a "high Crime or Misdemeanor."

Blessings to you. May God help us all.


William McGinnis (Rev. Bill McGinnis) Alexandrioa, VA 22301


[link to www.rense.com]
All of Lebanon will be liberated including Shebba Farms, along with Golan, and the West Bank, and Gaza.

Then Israel can have peace.
Shadow

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09/02/2006 10:50 AM
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Re: If Bush Orders Iran Bombing Without Congress Authorization, The Military MUST DISOBEY
Check this out:

[link to globalresearch.ca]
Over the side and damn the barracuda
Anonymous Coward
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Re: If Bush Orders Iran Bombing Without Congress Authorization, The Military MUST DISOBEY
No. We won't disobey. Time to bomb.
DanG
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I agree OP

pay no attention to spineless Cowards
Daughter of Lebanon (OP)

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09/02/2006 10:53 AM
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No. We won't disobey. Time to bomb.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 120573


Whats this 'we' stuff? You're not in the military.

Do you hate the US constitution?

Do you hate democracy?
All of Lebanon will be liberated including Shebba Farms, along with Golan, and the West Bank, and Gaza.

Then Israel can have peace.
Old-fashioned Catholic

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09/02/2006 10:59 AM
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I agree that the military must obey the Constitution and our ratified treaties. The President has no authority to declare war, nor does he have a casus belli to do so; and so the military must refuse.

Of course, the President isn't the real problem, the Vice-President and the Secretary of Defense are. If someone in law enforcement would just arrest Cheney and Rumsfeld, perhaps Bush could be persuaded to act rationally before it is too late.
Hakketak

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09/02/2006 10:59 AM
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No. We won't disobey. Time to bomb.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 120573


Ok than, Start with the Bush ranch and end with the white house when all the wolves are in it.
D. Bunker ™Moderator
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Commander in Chief

Reflecting the clear consensus at the Constitutional Convention that the nation's highest civilian officer should have charge of the military, the Constitution states that the president “shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States.” That is the only statement in the document about the president's war-making power. Because the precise authority of the office of commander in chief is left undefined, presidents have been able to argue that they possess any power needed to improve the nation's defenses in peacetime or to help it prevail over an enemy in wartime, without usurping the power of the other branches or violating the law.

The Constitution does not give the president complete domination over the war-making function. The power to declare war is reserved for Congress, as is the ability to raise and maintain an army. Nevertheless, presidential use of the power to order U.S. forces into combat without a congressional declaration of war increased greatly during the twentieth century. Particularly during the half-century of cold war conflict between the United States and the Soviet Union, presidents claimed the right to deploy military forces on their own initiative. Presidents also had the support of congressional resolutions authorizing them to use force, such as the Tonkin Gulf resolution which Lyndon Johnson claimed as his legal authority for carrying out the war in Vietnam.

In 1973 Congress responded to Richard Nixon's continuing prosecution of the Vietnam War by passing the War Powers Act over Nixon's veto. The most important and controversial provisions of the law outlined the situations under which presidents could commit troops, permitted Congress at any time to order the president to disengage troops involved in an undeclared war, and required the president to withdraw armed forces from a conflict within sixty to ninety days unless Congress specifically authorized its continuation. The law has failed to substantially change presidential war-making prerogatives, however. Presidents since Nixon have strongly refused to invoke the law, and only once—in speeding the removal of U.S. forces from Lebanon in 1982—has the law forced a compromise over the use of military power. In 1991 George Bush allowed a dramatic debate and vote in Congress over authorization of his use of force in the Persian Gulf without admitting that his actions were subject to the War Powers Act. In the fall of 2002, George W. Bush sought, and eventually received, congressional authorization to use military force against Saddam Hussein's regime.

--------------------------------

Excerpt from here : [link to www.cqpress.com]
savetata


Favorite Quote - "I just fucking love outer space, it has all those planets and stars and shit." - Mister Obvious 2009
Anonymous Coward
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09/02/2006 11:08 AM
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Re: If Bush Orders Iran Bombing Without Congress Authorization, The Military MUST DISOBEY
I don't advocate a war.

Please tell us how to prevent IRAN, NK from enriching uranium and
giving those tools to known terrorists and encouraging them to
use them against us "Zionists" and Supports of Zionists.

...................

Once we have those tools to keep that from happening, then the world can rest easy..

The USA certainly does not open their local Uranium Enrichment Stores and hand out Uranium.

so...tell us....how do we prevent that............

.....whats the matter....cat got your tounge?????
Anonymous Coward
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09/02/2006 11:12 AM
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I know many people in the military, they are stupid fucks that cant put on their own pants without orders, they will always do what they are told because they are fucking losers.
Anonymous Coward
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09/02/2006 11:15 AM
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Re: If Bush Orders Iran Bombing Without Congress Authorization, The Military MUST DISOBEY
Given the choice: Iran with nuclear weapons or Russia/China axis take over the world after the US.

I say we bomb Iran's nuclear capabilities and fuck the Russia/China axis on the Mideast.
Shadow

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09/02/2006 11:22 AM
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The USA certainly does not open their local Uranium Enrichment Stores and hand out Uranium.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 137358


Actually, the US has. India (a non-NPT signatory) has recieved technology from the US, as has Israel.

And Iran:

[link to globalresearch.ca]

If the US was so concerned about proliferation, they would worry about the some 30 countries that possess it, not the one country it's (US's) own intelligence has advised may have in 5-10 years. And if Iran DOES have the technology, they were warned in Feb 2002 they would need it (axis of evil).

The US admin will bomb or buy any profit they can get.
Over the side and damn the barracuda
gadfly

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09/02/2006 11:25 AM
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It is the obligation of the military to protect the people. if an out-of- control president, or his controllers, begin to endanger the people by such acts as prosecuting an illegal war on Iran without the consent of Congress, then the military should arrest those responsible leaders, including even those who are the puppet masters controlling the leaders behind the scenes. If the president prosecutes an unprovoked attack upon any country, it is unconstitutional and needs to be remedied by arrest and trail of the president and his advisers. If he attacks Iran, this will bring on an attack on America by Russia and China, and will essentially result in the death of liberty throughout the world...

A retired military officer
Anonymous Coward
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09/02/2006 11:26 AM
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I know many people in the military, they are stupid fucks that cant put on their own pants without orders, they will always do what they are told because they are fucking losers.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 121349


You sound like a mommas boy.
D. Bunker ™Moderator
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09/02/2006 11:28 AM

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Re: If Bush Orders Iran Bombing Without Congress Authorization, The Military MUST DISOBEY
War Powers Act is the Key.

For your reading pleasure.

[link to www.cs.indiana.edu]

[link to en.wikipedia.org]


When the President Can Use Combat Troops Short of a Declaration of War
Three major parts of the War Powers Resolution merit specific emphasis. First, there is section 1541(c), entitled "Presidential Executive Power as Commander In Chief; Limitation." It states that the President's constitutional power to introduce U.S. combat troops is limited to only three circumstances: "(1) a declaration of war, (2) specific statutory authorization, or (3) a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces."10

This section provides that the President is not allowed to send U.S. troops into combat unless Congress specifically gives advance approval; the only exception is if the President is responding to a national emergency created by an attack on U.S. territory or on U.S. armed forces.11 Even then, the President must report to Congress immediately and then "terminate any use" of the troops within 60 days unless Congress specifically approves of further action.12

Our history demonstrates that there are many other situations where Presidents have the constitutional authority to act. For example, the President may use the military to rescue U.S. citizens abroad, to rescue foreign nationals when that directly facilitates the rescue of our citizens abroad, to protect U.S. embassies abroad, to implement a cease-fire involving the United States, or to carry out the security commitments in a treaty.13 The War Powers Resolution, oddly enough, does not even include the right of the President to deter an imminent attack on the United States. Section 1541(c) only covers the situation where there has been an actual attack! Professor John Hart Ely admits that "it truly is impossible to predict and specify all the possible situations in which the president will need to act to protect the nation's security before he has time to obtain congressional authorization."14

Over the years Presidents have justified military action without the specific consent of Congress, relying on various theories not found in the War Powers Act.15 President Roosevelt sent troops to Iceland and Greenland in 1940, although federal legislation appeared to forbid it.16 President Johnson initially justified sending Marines to the Dominican Republic to protect U.S. citizens; later Johnson relied on the Rio Treaty. President Clinton involved the military in Haiti without seeking congressional approval.

After the enactment of the War Powers Resolution, Presidents have simply ignored the strict limits of this section, as illustrated by incidents such as the Mayaguez rescue and the invasion of Grenada. Moreover, the American people (particularly our citizens abroad) would not want a President to follow this section: To do that would assure unfriendly governments and terrorists that American embassy personnel, tourists, and other American nationals abroad are all fair game, unprotected by the world's only superpower. This section should simply be repealed.17

Excerpt from Fixing the War Powers Act
by Albert E. Jenner Heritage Lecture #529: [link to www.heritage.org]
savetata


Favorite Quote - "I just fucking love outer space, it has all those planets and stars and shit." - Mister Obvious 2009
Anonymous Coward
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09/02/2006 11:29 AM
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Congress gave authorization for Iraq.

And it will for Iran.


Muzzie.
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I know many people in the military, they are stupid fucks that cant put on their own pants without orders, they will always do what they are told because they are fucking losers.


You sound like a mommas boy.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 120573


mammas boy? well all the military is is one big fat mamma for people that cant support themselves in the real world. I made it on my own.
AA

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09/02/2006 11:35 AM
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OP... sadly the military is under control of BushCo now. They will do it wether it is constitutional or not. It would be nice if we had some military leaders who remembered what the constitution is and the oathes they swore to protect and told BushCo to go fuck themselves but I do not think that is the case. vrwc
"Pray, v:. To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy." - Ambrose Bierce (1842-1914)
Anonymous Coward
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09/02/2006 11:42 AM
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Me Thinks another staged terrorist attack is gonna happen real soon....Bush will somehow tie it in with Iran and congress and the public will give the green light for Bush&CO. It is sad that i think this way and i really hope this doesnt happen but something in my bones says it will. peace
Anonymous Coward
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It is the obligation of the military to protect the people. if an out-of- control president, or his controllers, begin to endanger the people by such acts as prosecuting an illegal war on Iran without the consent of Congress, then the military should arrest those responsible leaders, including even those who are the puppet masters controlling the leaders behind the scenes. If the president prosecutes an unprovoked attack upon any country, it is unconstitutional and needs to be remedied by arrest and trail of the president and his advisers. If he attacks Iran, this will bring on an attack on America by Russia and China, and will essentially result in the death of liberty throughout the world...

A retired military officer
 Quoting: gadfly


I asked this question: Given the choice: Iran with nuclear weapons or Russia/China axis take over the world after the US?

Take your pick.
Anonymous Coward
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09/02/2006 11:49 AM
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If the US was so concerned about proliferation, they would worry about the some 30 countries that possess it, not the one country it's (US's) own intelligence has advised may have in 5-10 years. And if Iran DOES have the technology, they were warned in Feb 2002 they would need it (axis of evil).
 Quoting: Shadow


The problem is not with Iran's nuclear energy policy, Shadow. The problem is WHO control Iran's nuclear weapon development under the auspices of Iran's nuclear energy policy.

Alot of you are terribly CLUELESS of Iran's leadership structure!! Read below:

The Islamic Republic of Iran has a constitution and political arrangement unfamiliar to Westerners. It is an hermetically sealed system that does not allow anyone from the outside to enter. Power rests with unelected bodies. Those who are "elected" -- e.g. the President and Parliamentarians -- are actually pre-selected by unelected bodies.

In the Islamic Republic the highest authority is not the President or the Parliament. The Supreme Leader (Velayat Faghih) Ali Khamenei is -- as his title implies -- the highest authority. Below him are other unelected entities such as members of the Expediency Council and Guardian Council, which are still more powerful than the President and the Parliament. The Supreme Leader has to approve the President before he assumes his post. He can also dismiss the President from his post.

The Supreme Leader has the same authority over the Parliament. He is also commander-in-chief of the armed forces. He is the only person who can declare war or peace. He appoints and dismisses the leaders of the judiciary as well as the state radio and television networks. And he controls the intelligence and security operations.

The Supreme Leader's power is extended through his representatives, who are present in all sectors of the government. Those representatives are more powerful than the president's ministers and have the authority to intervene in any matter of state on the Supreme Leader's behalf.

He appoints six of the twelve members of the Guardian Council, the clerical body that can reject any laws passed by the Parliament and determines which candidates are allowed to run for public office.

[link to www.tcsdaily.com]

Iran's nukes would be effectively in the hands of the UNELECTED leaders of Iran and it would LEAD to nuclear weapon proliferation in the Middle East.

Wake the fuck up!
Anonymous Coward
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09/02/2006 12:08 PM
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Understand what is defined as "Islamic republic":

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

An Islamic republic in its modern context has come to mean several things. Theoretically, it is a state under a particular theocratic form of government advocated by some Muslim religious leaders in the Middle East and Africa. In an Islamic republic, the laws of the state are required to be compatible with the laws of Sharia, Islamic law, while the state remains a republic (that is, not a monarchy as many Middle Eastern states are presently).

In the Islamic Republic of Iran (established in 1979), the president and members of the legislature are elected by direct vote of the citizens (although many liberal Iranians object to these elections as only candidates approved by the clergy are allowed to run for office). Iran's Islamic republic is in contrast to the constitutionally democratic and partially secular state of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan (proclaimed as an Islamic Republic in 1956) where Islamic laws are technically considered to override laws of the state, though in reality they rarely do. Mauritania became an Islamic republic on 28 November 1958.

The government of Iran is not the same as the government of Pakistan, contrary to popular beliefs surrounding the definition of an Islamic republic.

NOTE this: although many liberal Iranians object to these elections as only candidates approved by the clergy are allowed to run for office).

Pretty much reinforced Kazemi's point that Iranian candidates must be approved by the mullahs, not picked by the people of Iran.
Anonymous Coward
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09/02/2006 12:13 PM
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Another reinforcement of Kazemi's article:

Supreme Leader
Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, current Supreme Leader of Iran.

The Supreme Leader of Iran is responsible for delineation and supervision of "the general policies of the Islamic Republic of Iran". The Supreme Leader is Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces, controls the military intelligence and security operations; and has sole power to declare war. The heads of the judiciary, state radio and television networks, the commanders of the police and military forces and six of the twelve members of the Council of Guardians are appointed by the Supreme Leader. The Assembly of Experts elects and dismisses the Supreme Leader on the basis of qualifications and popular esteem.[14] The Assembly of Experts is responsible for supervising the Supreme Leader in the performance of legal duties. By the definition of monarchy and elective monarchy the Supreme Leader is arguably an elected monarch, similar to the Pope and other such leaders around the world.[1] However, it should be noted that Iran is constitutionally defined as a Republic, and is regarded as such in the common understanding of the term.


Executive

The Constitution defines the President as the highest state authority -->AFTER<--- the Supreme Leader. The President is elected by universal suffrage for a term of four years. --->>Presidential candidates must be approved by the Council of Guardians prior to running.<<--- The President is responsible for the implementation of the Constitution and for the exercise of executive powers, except for matters directly related to the Supreme Leader. The President appoints and supervises the Council of Ministers, coordinates government decisions, and selects government policies to be placed before the legislature. Eight Vice-Presidents serve under the President, as well as a cabinet of 21 ministers, who must all be approved by the legislature. Unlike many other states, the executive branch in Iran does not control the armed forces. Although the President appoints the Ministers of Intelligence and Defense, it is customary for the President to obtain explicit approval from the Supreme Leader for these two ministers before presenting them to the legislature for a vote of confidence.
Anonymous Coward
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Sorry to forgot about the link for above: [link to en.wikipedia.org]
Anonymous Coward
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That's why the word WAR never enters the mix. "Police Action", "Peacekeeping Mission", etc. When was the last time war was actually declared?
User # 78/68

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The US has a rigged voting system ... how is that free?

If I was Iran I would be weaponizing too. America is the biggest unelected threat in the world right now. And the rest of the world is very aware of this! dubya
Anonymous Coward
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09/02/2006 12:35 PM
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I don't advocate a war.

Please tell us how to prevent IRAN, NK from enriching uranium and
giving those tools to known terrorists and encouraging them to
use them against us "Zionists" and Supports of Zionists.

...................

Once we have those tools to keep that from happening, then the world can rest easy..

The USA certainly does not open their local Uranium Enrichment Stores and hand out Uranium.

so...tell us....how do we prevent that............

.....whats the matter....cat got your tounge?????
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 137358


Although I'm not in favor of nuclear weapons I've got to make a remark dear...

The ONLY nation on this earth that enriched uranium, created nuclear weapons AND USED THEM on another nation (when it was obviously not needed) is the one nation that you know better! Its the same nation that by force is not allowing anyone else (but Israel of course) to accomplish nuclear weapon capability.

Which one is that Nation?

When there will be time that this nation loose its nuclear ability only then "the world can rest easy.."

:.
Anonymous Coward
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The US has a rigged voting system ... how is that free?

If I was Iran I would be weaponizing too. America is the biggest unelected threat in the world right now. And the rest of the world is very aware of this!
 Quoting: User # 78/68


Bullshit.
Apocalypse Troll
Trollicus Apocalyptus

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Congress will overwhelmingly pass a declration of war against Iran.

Just a matter of time.


Probably right before the '08 elections.

Democrats will do anything to keep their seats...



drevil
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Anonymous Coward
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09/02/2006 01:07 PM
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This is the key line from your post D. Bunker:

>>>"This section provides that the President is not allowed to send U.S. troops into combat unless Congress specifically gives advance approval;"<<<

The wording is 'send U.S. troops into combat'...The President o anything short of that, including strategic strikes...re. Bill Clinton on the eve of Monica's testimony ordering Cruise Missile strikes...

The President will take out Iran's nuclear capabilities with, or without the UN or Congress...
Daughter of Lebanon (OP)

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OP... sadly the military is under control of BushCo now. They will do it wether it is constitutional or not. It would be nice if we had some military leaders who remembered what the constitution is and the oathes they swore to protect and told BushCo to go fuck themselves but I do not think that is the case. vrwc
 Quoting: AA


I would tell them something similar if I had the voice.
All of Lebanon will be liberated including Shebba Farms, along with Golan, and the West Bank, and Gaza.

Then Israel can have peace.

News








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