Test Pilot Admits the F-35 Can’t Dogfight

While I'm inclined to defend the F-35 to a certain degree I also have some criticisms.

In it's original design as a penetrating F/A it would have fared better had it not been ham strung by the marines wanting a V/Tol plane. The marines basically screwed this plane up because the V/Tol design requires a larger cross section.

As a carrier borne aircraft it must perform one of two tasks. It must intercept aircraft and defend the carrier or it must serve as an attack plane. It's already been established that the F-35 isn't a great air superiority fighter so it looks like the super hornets will have to stay on in that role.

That leaves it being an attack plane, which is arguably it's most promising use. The problem is that it's combat radius is 600 N. miles, which is actually better than the super hornet's 400 N. miles, but far short of the A6 intruder's 1,000 N. miles.

At a time when carriers come under increasing threat from ground based missiles it behooves a carrier to have aircraft that can strike from great distance so the carrier can maintain a safer distance. Imagine a carrier attempting to launch attack aircraft against China using current F18s. If the attack called for more than a few planes then they'd have to rely on onboard fuel and thus the carrier would be forced to approach to within 200 miles of it's intended target. Not a good idea against a country bristling with antiship missiles capable of such range.

I'm afraid that an Iraqi pilot did indeed down a US fighter flown by Scott Speicher, but it was an F18 shot by a mig 25.

lol, the Western shill doesn't work either but keeps getting funded.

Asshat. Win against who exactly? Not the Su-50 which costs 80% less and will be mass produced soon. They have advanced russian radar (like in ground based S-500 systems) that can track these 'stealth' aircraft. F-35 is a sitting duck...F-22 is gonna be a catfight.

Keep dreaming. In 10 years, let's come back and have this talk.

How about air-to-air accidental combat...

22 November 1995 : F-15J, 02-8919, of the 308 Hiko-tai, Komatsu AFB, JASDF, during air-intercept training over the Sea of Japan, flown by Lt. Tatsumi Higuchi was shot down by an AIM-9L Sidewinder missile accidentally fired by his wingman. The pilot ejected safely.[5][91]

Not true with the F-117, it's a bomber with the "F" designation.


I think the test pilot was not able to utilize the performance of the plane, a VTOL should be able to out fly any standard jet.

He can out turn and literally stop in the air, where others cannot. Once the expirienced pilots learn to use all of the planes abilities, it will be nearly unbeatable in a dogfight.

They say it can't fly in the RAIN either!!

I somewhat agree. The money spent and life cycle required for the F35 will in no way be effective in a decade.

However, tactical usage can go a long way toward covering up weaknesses though at the expense of offensive utility. For instance, any plane gives less radar return from certain angles. By knowing what angles the F35 is most stealth the planes can attempt to put those angles toward the enemy radar.

What many don't consider is that just because you know a plane is there that is not the same as chasing it down and destroying it. At range the F35 can likely evade and escape thanks to it's limited super cruise ability and it's stealth which will likely cause an intermittent signal. In other words if you can't constantly see the plane then you will be closing on where you think it is going while it can in fact create angles and maintain or even widen the distance between it and a faster plane.

All that said, these are really only mid-term solutions. In another decade or so radars capable of seeing the F35 at great range and at all times will be widely deployed.

Pretty much

Only because a crow was sitting on it. Geeze!

I dont know about air to air combat. I didnt know it was in regards to air to air combat.

I dont know what hide behind red karma means..

Mass-produced, all 12 of them? Recent news out of Russia is the order of 52 was cut to 12, wonder why maybe cost?

It's estimated they'll cost Russia 50m per, the F-35 after maturity is expected to be 80-100m range I believe so far from 80% less like you claim. Furthermore, I believe those numbers for current F-35 stand at around 110m.

Only way to have an objective look on the thing outside of Russian fluff is to take a look at India's evaluation of their version, many complaints and you should check it out.

Bullshit. So fucking tired of reading this.

STOP WITH THE RUSSIAN STEALTH BULLSHIT!
___________________________________________

Russia’s Stealth Fighter Is in Serious Trouble — War Is Boring — Medium

The Kremlin cuts back on T-50s
by ROBERT BECKHUSEN

Just a short time ago, Russia planned to have 52 advanced T-50 stealth fighters by the end of the decade. At least, that was the plan.

Now the T-50 program appears to be in serious trouble, and Russia may cut back the fighters to a fraction of the planned strength.

The first sign something was very wrong appeared last month. On March 24. Yuri Borisov, Russia’s deputy defense minister for armaments, told the Kommersant newspaper that the military is drastically cutting its number of T-50s. Instead of 52 stealth fighters, Russia will build merely 10 of them.
That’s hardly anything.

The Kremlin has produced five T-50 prototypes so far — and one was heavily damaged in a fire. Meanwhile, India is co-developing the plane with Russia, and New Delhi’s funding helps keep the project alive. But now Indian Air Force officials have also stopped talking to their counterparts in Moscow.

Which all puts a spotlight on Russia’s problems building so-called fifth-generation fighter jets — which the country needs to compete with the best the United States and China have to offer.

It’s easy enough building prototypes, but developing a truly capable aircraft — all during a major economic recession — isn’t so simple. That’s especially the case when talking about more than a handful.

“Given the new economic conditions, the original plans may have to be adjusted,” Borisov said. “It is better to have the PAK FA kept as a reserve, and later move forward, while squeezing everything possible for now out of the 4+ generation fighters.”

He was referring to Russia’s modern — but non-stealthy — Su-30 and Su-35 multi-role fighters. Borisov said these fighters will fill the gap left by the T-50’s dwindling production run.

In theory, the T-50 will serve as Russia’s competitor to the U.S. F-22 and F-35 fighters. On the surface, the T-50 appears to be a capable and deadly jet. It’s big, fast and has a long range. At air shows, the blended winged-body plane has demonstrated a high degree of maneuverability.

It has huge, mean-looking twin engines — set wide apart for stability — and a 50-foot wingspan. The T-50 has a large internal weapons bay and stealthy, radar avoidance features. If there are technical problems, Russia doesn’t disclose them.

Officially, Russia’s economic turmoil is responsible for the production cut. The plane’s total development cost is unclear — anywhere from $10 billion to $30 billion. India has already spent about $5 billion. But all is not well on the technical front, either.

Because we know the Indians will disclose problems with the aircraft.

For more than a year, the Indian Business Standard newspaper has reported on New Delhi’s misgivings. The Indian version of the T-50 is known as the FGFA.

“The FGFA’s current AL-41F1 engines were underpowered, the Russians were reluctant to share critical design information, and the fighter would eventually cost too much,” the paper reported, based on briefings from Indian Air Force officials in December 2013.

A month later, more bad news leaked to the press. India wanted a bigger share of the project. But the engine was still bad, it still cost too much, the plane’s radar was “inadequate” and its “stealth features badly engineered.”

Then in June, a T-50 landed at the Zhukovsky testing grounds near Moscow … and its engine caught fire. Russian officials said the damage was minor — but photographs depicted the entire rear fuselage consumed by the blaze.

“What added to the controversy … was Russia’s refusal to share any details of this failure, to the extent that a technical evaluation team of the Indian Air Force that reportedly was present at the site was refused access to inspect the damaged platform,” Monika Chansoria of the Center for Land Warfare Studies in New Delhi told Defense News.

India and Russia should have continued negotiations for the development contract. But now New Delhi is incommunicado with Moscow. The Russian defense ministry wanted meetings with their Indian counterparts between February and March. India didn’t respond.

“[Indian Air Force] marshals fear the FGFA undermines the rationale for buying the Rafale fighter from France, an $18–$20 billion contract that is sputtering through so-far unsuccessful negotiations,” the Business Standard reported.

Russia media outlets suggested the drop in oil prices is largely responsible for scaling back the T-50. The Kremlin is short on cash and might not be able to justify spending billions of dollars on a fancy new stealth fighter — or at least 52 of them.

If so, once the Russian economy improves, the T-50 could return to its original schedule — albeit a bit later than expected. That’s probably the best-case scenario.

The worst case involves serious — but mysterious — technical problems. And if India goes farther and ditches its share of the program, the T-50 will go from having major issues into being a catastrophe.

It would mean billions of dollars of hoped-for investment washing down the sink — and the loss of Russia’s largest potential buyer on the international market.

The Russian air force largely dates to the Soviet era — and it’s getting older every day. Russia simply can’t replace its aging fighters fast enough or build the most advanced jets at the same rate as Washington or Beijing.

But Russia can make evolutionary improvements to existing designs, such as the Su-30 and Su-35. Which is all to say that building a more revolutionary aircraft such as the T-50 might be one step too far.
[link to medium.com (secure)]

War Is Boring
Robert Beckhusen
Managing editor at War Is Boring. Email: firstnamelastname (at) gmail.

My younger brother is a fighter jock.He has flown for 6 years and he says a good operator is able to use the vectored thrust to "turn on a dime". Article is bs, put out to convince red team plane sucks. This aircraft can turn sharper that any aircraft in the inventory. Operator must be good with vector thrust kinetic turning. Care must be taken to not overstress the airframe. You can rip the wings off this thing if turned to sharp.

during sputniks orbiting of earth, radar tracking was intermittent. It was later determined that what caused this intermittent tracking was a plasma field created around sputnik as it transverse the ionosphere.

plasma stealth is very real in its capability to absorb radar radiation.

the F-35, no doubt has some type of plasma stealth to deceive over the horizon radar systems over its most ohr visible components.

We don't dog fight anymore.

We lob missiles way over the horizon, long out of our enemy's detection range. They explode and never knew there was a threat.

Don't fall for the propaganda. This isn't ww2 with prop planes and big gun dog fights.

Yeah but Zrussians have 3d vectoring, plus their vectoring is V-shaped, not horizontal, some differences.

I don't think you understand how VTOL works.

The F35 can not use VTOL until its payload is expended and some fuel has been lost. It's strictly for landing.

If you were to pull VTOL in a dog fight, they wouldn't even bother to use a missile, they'd just light you up with a cannon and laugh at how stupid you were.

who would VTOL in a dog fight? that's just to save space on the carriers.

Well Obama was handing out trillions and the military wanted their cut. Fucking plane don't cost no trillion

F-22 is a superior aircraft. Mind you the Northrop version was better but they hate Jack Northrop and will never let that company be a prime contractor.

then the F-35 is not multi-role.

From what I heard, the A10 warthog beat the F-35 in 8/10 dog fights. The two times the A-10 lost the F-35 crashed on takeoff and took out the A10 on the runway. They just laughed historically when they tried to compare the two in the close air support.

The B-52 did even better, win 10/10, as it just flew around and the pilot in the F-35 passed out from lack of oxygen above 1000 feet.

</sarcasm>

For what has been spend on the junk F35 we could have 10,000 F22's...

We are the dumbest nation on earth.

AND I work within the JSF program!

actually you can, the raf harriers in the falklands used vtol in mid air and at speed to perform unpredictable manouvers while being pursued to get behind the enemy aircraft so it has some ariel value or at least on that aircraft. I think it was more of a change height and brake thing that left enemy overshooting them and becoming vunerable.

Well when you decide to have a bunch of kids design an aircraft it turns out even worse than the concept itself.

Mind you having as the major criteria that all versionz have to look the same to the average coach potato was pretty stupid.

army navy airforce marine; all require difference aircraft which by function alone look completely different if you want optimized design.

each should had been separate programs and clean sheet at that.

Well wtf happened? Did the Americans forget how to build stealth aircraft after the Raptor? Putin/Chinese Jedi mind wipe?

One trillion dollars is the projected cost for the life of the program (that includes procurement, operating costs, and maintenance), a program intended to last well over 50 years. Divide the estimated total cost with the estimated program life and you get 20 billion per year. 20 billion a year for over 1000 of the most advanced aircraft in the world isn't all that expensive. Shit, the new Ford Class CVNs almost cost that much for just one ship.

Also, it seems like most of you are unaware that when the military runs tests like this for a program in developement, they tend to test it's weakest aspects against a proven system's strongest aspects. Doing so helps them determine what steps they can take to improve that aspect of the program while it is still in development.