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Society and ethics are BULLSHIT CONcepts

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 152150
China
10/07/2006 06:56 PM
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Society and ethics are BULLSHIT CONcepts
Most of us grew up living in America believing that our freedoms were the most important things in the world.

Now, we have no freedom at all, the government can take anyone they want, torture them, detain them indefinitely, and/or kill them.

People will say that this is fine BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT SAYS IT IS. PERIOD.

We're told that you must absolutely be 18 years old to be of legal age to consent to having sex.

But, why is it that no one ever talks about these facts:

12 is the legal age of consent in two countries (Mexico and Chile)

9 was the legal age for marriage for girls in Iran until recently:

"Before this article was amended, the legal age for marriage was 9 years for girls and 15 years for boys[14]. The Parliament believed that the young age for marriage could have negative physical, psychological, legal and social repercussions.

The Parliament proposed that the age of marriage be increased to 18 for both men and women. Unfortunately, this met with strong opposition from the Guardian Council. The Expediency Council - the highest decision-making body in the country- intervened and raised the age of puberty and thus the legal age for marriage from 9 to 13 years of age for girls. The legal age for marriage for boys remained at 15 years of age.[15]" [link to www.essex.ac.uk]

So, people who live in Mexico, Chile, and Iran believe that sex with children is fine BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT SAYS IT IS. PERIOD.

That's reality. Society and ethics are BULLSHIT CONcepts, whatever the powers that be say is ok WILL BE CONSIDERED OK. People will accept ANYTHING as long as their government condones it.

The human race is a herd of sheep under Lucifer.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 152150
China
10/07/2006 07:08 PM
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Re: Society and ethics are BULLSHIT CONcepts
I want to add that not only will people accept ANYTHING long as their government condones it, they will go along with it in their actions as well.

I'm really starting to think that everything we've been taught all lives has been myths and fairy tales.
Ningishiddza

User ID: 124957
United States
10/07/2006 07:12 PM
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Re: Society and ethics are BULLSHIT CONcepts
So, people who live in Mexico, Chile, and Iran believe that sex with children is fine BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT SAYS IT IS. PERIOD.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 152150


Had you lived in the US at the time of early colonization, you too would have believed that sex with 11, 12, 13 and 14 year olds was fine.

It wasn't until the 20th Century that US states had laws of consent, so apparently the US is also defective.

The laws of consent were enacted not because sex with a child is wrong, but because of compulsory education through the primary grades. So that makes the US even more defective, according to you.

As I recall, no one died and left you in charge of all customs and mores on planet Earth.
Americanii-s de vina futu-i in gura sa-i fut
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 152150
China
10/07/2006 07:22 PM
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Re: Society and ethics are BULLSHIT CONcepts
So, people who live in Mexico, Chile, and Iran believe that sex with children is fine BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT SAYS IT IS. PERIOD.

Had you lived in the US at the time of early colonization, you too would have believed that sex with 11, 12, 13 and 14 year olds was fine.

It wasn't until the 20th Century that US states had laws of consent, so apparently the US is also defective.

The laws of consent were enacted not because sex with a child is wrong, but because of compulsory education through the primary grades. So that makes the US even more defective, according to you.

As I recall, no one died and left you in charge of all customs and mores on planet Earth.
 Quoting: Ningishiddza


You made some excellent points. With your avatar, I keep having the feeling that we're already in a prison camp and you're my guard. What a fucking nightmare. lmao
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 152354
China
10/08/2006 06:07 AM
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Re: Society and ethics are BULLSHIT CONcepts
bump
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1294
United States
10/08/2006 06:16 AM
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Re: Society and ethics are BULLSHIT CONcepts
there's nothing really immoral about having sex or marrying a 13 or 14 year old, especially in developing countries. Before modern times all people had to do was procreate, there was no careers, nightlife, school, or anything like that. It was pretty much the norm in the US during the 1800's to marry at 16. We also used or kids as slave labor too, similar to what they do in china.

I do agree with your general premise though.. the human race is a race of sheep, but so what? They can't help being the way they are, and they will learn and evolve at their own speed.

There's no reason to try to force anyone to evolve faster or put other cultures down for not being up to our "enlightened" standards. Besides, who are you to say that something is right or wrong?

Nobody could be anything else then what they are. Personally, I couldn't care less about what one particular culture believes is "right and wrong"
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 126878
Panama
10/08/2006 06:45 AM
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Re: Society and ethics are BULLSHIT CONcepts
I think the OP's point is that most people base their concept of what's right and what's wrong on what their government decides is right or wrong.

The only reason the OP posted the legal ages of consent of various countries was as an example of different governments' not being able to agree on what is the "right" age of consent.

So, if governments cannot agree on what is right or wrong, then why should we believe they know diddly-squat about right and wrong? And why should we base our idea of what is right or wrong on what our own government has decided is right and wrong?

I think that's what the OP wanted to discuss. But, because the OP used age of consent as his/her example, I suspect this thread will end up turning into an age of consent debate, instead, and that would be a real shame, because the OP has brought an excellent topic to the table.

(OP, I am not saying you made a mistake when you used age of consent as an example. It's actually a perfect example. I just know how people can be, and how many will not be able to resist turning your example into the topic, even though it is not the topic.)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 152354
China
10/08/2006 06:50 AM
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Re: Society and ethics are BULLSHIT CONcepts
the human race is a race of sheep, but so what?
 Quoting: 1294


I'll tell you what's wrong with it. America went from 200+ years of freedom to an extremely repressive fascist dictatorship in about 5 years. And the vast majority went right along with it, slavishly, without so much as comment about it. Why would should have any faith in any country? Why should we have children (there future is in danger at all time by the whims of the sheep their surrounded by)? Why should we have faith in anything? Please tell me!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 152354
China
10/08/2006 06:52 AM
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Re: Society and ethics are BULLSHIT CONcepts
I think the OP's point is that most people base their concept of what's right and what's wrong on what their government decides is right or wrong.

The only reason the OP posted the legal ages of consent of various countries was as an example of different governments' not being able to agree on what is the "right" age of consent.

So, if governments cannot agree on what is right or wrong, then why should we believe they know diddly-squat about right and wrong? And why should we base our idea of what is right or wrong on what our own government has decided is right and wrong?

I think that's what the OP wanted to discuss. But, because the OP used age of consent as his/her example, I suspect this thread will end up turning into an age of consent debate, instead, and that would be a real shame, because the OP has brought an excellent topic to the table.

(OP, I am not saying you made a mistake when you used age of consent as an example. It's actually a perfect example. I just know how people can be, and how many will not be able to resist turning your example into the topic, even though it is not the topic.)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 126878


Great point, maybe I'll start this thread again in the future using other examples. What do you recommend?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 152364
Australia
10/08/2006 07:05 AM
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Re: Society and ethics are BULLSHIT CONcepts
152150,
The concept of ethics and the concept of government, are mutually exclusive.

Governments PRETEND to base laws on ethics.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 126878
Panama
10/08/2006 07:20 AM
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Re: Society and ethics are BULLSHIT CONcepts
I think the OP's point is that most people base their concept of what's right and what's wrong on what their government decides is right or wrong.

The only reason the OP posted the legal ages of consent of various countries was as an example of different governments' not being able to agree on what is the "right" age of consent.

So, if governments cannot agree on what is right or wrong, then why should we believe they know diddly-squat about right and wrong? And why should we base our idea of what is right or wrong on what our own government has decided is right and wrong?

I think that's what the OP wanted to discuss. But, because the OP used age of consent as his/her example, I suspect this thread will end up turning into an age of consent debate, instead, and that would be a real shame, because the OP has brought an excellent topic to the table.

(OP, I am not saying you made a mistake when you used age of consent as an example. It's actually a perfect example. I just know how people can be, and how many will not be able to resist turning your example into the topic, even though it is not the topic.)
--------------------------------------

Great point, maybe I'll start this thread again in the future using other examples. What do you recommend?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 152354


That's a very good question. There are a number of different things you could use as an example, but I'm afaid any one of them could end up becoming the main topic of debate rather than what you really want to discuss.

Maybe it would be best to just give no example at all unless someone asks, then you could list several (e.g. laws regarding age of consent, capital punishment, prostitution, child labor, gun ownership, marijuana, etc. and how these laws vary in various countries). Even then, some posters would probably still end up getting sidetracked, and you would have to pull them back to discussing the actual topic.

I do think you have brought up an excellent subject. (If it wasn't so late and I wasn't so tired, I'd have a lot to say about it, but I think it's going to have to wait until after I've gotten some sleep.)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 152354
China
10/08/2006 07:25 AM
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Re: Society and ethics are BULLSHIT CONcepts
I think the OP's point is that most people base their concept of what's right and what's wrong on what their government decides is right or wrong.

The only reason the OP posted the legal ages of consent of various countries was as an example of different governments' not being able to agree on what is the "right" age of consent.

So, if governments cannot agree on what is right or wrong, then why should we believe they know diddly-squat about right and wrong? And why should we base our idea of what is right or wrong on what our own government has decided is right and wrong?

I think that's what the OP wanted to discuss. But, because the OP used age of consent as his/her example, I suspect this thread will end up turning into an age of consent debate, instead, and that would be a real shame, because the OP has brought an excellent topic to the table.

(OP, I am not saying you made a mistake when you used age of consent as an example. It's actually a perfect example. I just know how people can be, and how many will not be able to resist turning your example into the topic, even though it is not the topic.)
--------------------------------------

Great point, maybe I'll start this thread again in the future using other examples. What do you recommend?


That's a very good question. There are a number of different things you could use as an example, but I'm afaid any one of them could end up becoming the main topic of debate rather than what you really want to discuss.

Maybe it would be best to just give no example at all unless someone asks, then you could list several (e.g. laws regarding age of consent, capital punishment, prostitution, child labor, gun ownership, marijuana, etc. and how these laws vary in various countries). Even then, some posters would probably still end up getting sidetracked, and you would have to pull them back to discussing the actual topic.

I do think you have brought up an excellent subject. (If it wasn't so late and I wasn't so tired, I'd have a lot to say about it, but I think it's going to have to wait until after I've gotten some sleep.)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 126878


Thank you. Please come back to this thread and post more, I want to hear what you have to say. hf
Jomama

User ID: 73097
Germany
10/08/2006 07:38 AM
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Re: Society and ethics are BULLSHIT CONcepts
I think that's what the OP wanted to discuss. But, because the OP used age of consent as his/her example, I suspect this thread will end up turning into an age of consent debate, instead, and that would be a real shame, because the OP has brought an excellent topic to the table.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 126878


That would be a shame because the core ideas need much discussion.

The idea of instilling independant thought and action is a tough one to get thru to people who worship rules from On High, thinking all is well when everyone follows them.

All is not well, by any definition of "well" and most have that feeling in their guts, I expect.
to herd or not to herd
[link to djomama.blogspot.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 152373
United Kingdom
10/08/2006 08:00 AM
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Re: Society and ethics are BULLSHIT CONcepts
Margaret "Hatchet" THATCHER famously said when Prime Minister of the U.K that there is no such thing as society...

Like most things that came out of her gob,she was wrong on this too


[link to briandeer.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 152354
China
10/08/2006 08:24 AM
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Re: Society and ethics are BULLSHIT CONcepts
Everything's a question of "legality", we live in a legal system. So, it was illegal for the US government to detain indefinitely, torture, and/or kill virtually anyone they wanted for any reason two weeks ago but now it's "legal" because a rubber stamp congress and senate "passed" a "bill."

What makes it far worse is that the vast majority will just go along with this nonsense because it's now "legal" and the government says it's OK. Otherwise, they wouldn't even think of going along with this stuff. Please tell me where the sanity is in that...
Tox

User ID: 54792
Canada
10/08/2006 08:39 AM
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Re: Society and ethics are BULLSHIT CONcepts
OP, if I'm reading your original assertion correctly, I believe you're right. I wouldn't use the same example of age of consent laws as it is emotionally and politcally sensitive as well as an easily loaded argument trap. But, don't confuse ethics with ethics laws. The delineation between the two is what frees minds.

Ethics must be developed by individuals so there is a first hand understanding of the function and purpose. Society and culture then grows organically around the most common ethics in a given area. All attempts to control ethics by force in order to control society ultimately destroys both.

Handing over the final authority on ethics to any institution backed by force, absolves individuals of their own responsibility in the matter. How can a population be expected to have a sense of the principles, restraint or responsibility necessary for the daunting task of self governance when principles, restraint and responsibility are bureaucratized and left outside of their own personal experience? Separating an individual from his ethics is precisely what an ethics law does.

Once a person is separated from their ethics, they are without compass or direction and then must look to the ones who will tell them what to do and how to think. This role has been fulfilled by many different authorites throughout history and the result has always been disasterous. Whether it was a deliberate orchestration or a by-product of the fear of the unknown or a combination of the two, is fodder for lively debate.
The free man discovers his potential in service to a commonwealth.
The kept man discovers his aptitude for subverting a commonwealth to his own ends.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 152354
China
10/08/2006 08:49 AM
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Re: Society and ethics are BULLSHIT CONcepts
Society and culture then grows organically around the most common ethics in a given area.
 Quoting: Tox


That point has proven wrong by the recent developments in the US, again:

It was illegal for the US government to detain indefinitely, torture, and/or kill virtually anyone they wanted for any reason two weeks ago but now it's "legal" because a rubber stamp congress and senate "passed" a "bill."

What makes it far worse is that the vast majority will just go along with this nonsense because it's now "legal" and the government says it's OK. Otherwise, they wouldn't even think of going along with this stuff.

This proves, IMHO, that what we believe in so much, the concepts of absolute rights and wrongs, society, and culture are pure nonsense. See Nazi Germany as well, they had the same kind of change in a short period of time... and the vast majority accepted and followed the change.

There's no credibility or integrity with the common man, I'm sure of that now.
Tox

User ID: 54792
Canada
10/08/2006 09:27 AM
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Re: Society and ethics are BULLSHIT CONcepts
That point has proven wrong by the recent developments in the US, again:

It was illegal for the US government to detain indefinitely, torture, and/or kill virtually anyone they wanted for any reason two weeks ago but now it's "legal" because a rubber stamp congress and senate "passed" a "bill."

What makes it far worse is that the vast majority will just go along with this nonsense because it's now "legal" and the government says it's OK. Otherwise, they wouldn't even think of going along with this stuff.

This proves, IMHO, that what we believe in so much, the concepts of absolute rights and wrongs, society, and culture are pure nonsense. See Nazi Germany as well, they had the same kind of change in a short period of time... and the vast majority accepted and followed the change.

There's no credibility or integrity with the common man, I'm sure of that now.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 152354


Because a con man prospers temporarily, there is no such things as ethics?

Even the most disadvantageous situation can be turned advantageous. Use what you see and read about now as stimulus to think in longer terms and see a bigger picture. Formulate and articulate for yourself what is the right answer to these problems. Don't place your faith in institutions and other people ever again.

You can degrade yourself into bitterness, accompanied by the low hanging intellectual fruit of misanthropy and live miserably, or learn from this, adapt your thinking, gain new perspectives and become better for it. The first way, you are already defeated, with the second you're never defeated. But, the choice is yours.

Have you ever heard the expression, "Adversity reveals character?" It's more than just words.
The free man discovers his potential in service to a commonwealth.
The kept man discovers his aptitude for subverting a commonwealth to his own ends.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 83389
United States
10/08/2006 09:58 AM
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Re: Society and ethics are BULLSHIT CONcepts
If this admin is such a repressive fascist dictatorship. How come most of you glpers aren't in prison right now? spock
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 80475
United States
10/08/2006 10:46 AM
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Re: Society and ethics are BULLSHIT CONcepts
If this admin is such a repressive fascist dictatorship. How come most of you glpers aren't in prison right now? spock
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 83389


The is a total bullshit culture. You don't have to be behind bars to be a prisoner. Remember that show from the '60s, "The Prisoner"? We all live in a pseudo-environment created by TPTB who jealously create a private island of reality for themselves and subject the rest of us to lies.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 152575
China
10/08/2006 06:58 PM
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Re: Society and ethics are BULLSHIT CONcepts
If this admin is such a repressive fascist dictatorship. How come most of you glpers aren't in prison right now? spock
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 83389


They just got the law through that will allow for that. It takes time to destroy a country.

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