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Strong scientific evidence that the falling towers lacked the potential energy to pulverize all the concrete AND suspend it in air

 
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 09:51 AM
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Strong scientific evidence that the falling towers lacked the potential energy to pulverize all the concrete AND suspend it in air
The paper is rather scientific, and can be read here: [link to 911research.wtc7.net]

I'll post the conclusion here:

Summary
The dominant energy source assumed to be in play during the leveling of each of the Twin Towers was the gravitational energy due to their elevated mass. The energy sinks included the thorough pulverization of each tower's concrete, the vaporization of water, and the heating of air and suspended concrete dust in the ensuing dust cloud. Estimates for these energies are:

energy, KWH source or sink
+ 111,000 falling of mass (1.97e11 g falling average of 207 m)
- 135,000 crushing of concrete (9e10 g to 60 micron powder)
ignoring water vaporization
- 400,000 heating of gasses (2e9 g air from 300 to 1020 K)
- 11,300,000 heating of suspended concrete (9e10 g from 300 to 1020 K)
assuming water vaporization sink was not supply-limited
- 1,496,000 vaporization of water (2.38e9 g water)
- 41,000 heating of gasses (2e9 g air from 300 to 373 K)
- 1,145,000 heating of suspended concrete (9e10 g from 300 to 373 K)

The imbalance between sources and sinks is striking, no matter the relative shares of the thermodynamic and water vaporization sinks in accounting for the expansion. Moreover, it is very difficult to imagine how the gravitational energy released by falling mass could have contributed much to any of the sinks, since the vast majority of the tower's mass landed outside its footprint. The quantity for the crushing of concrete appears to be conservative since some reports indicate the average particle size was closer to 10 microns than 60 microns. The quantity for the heating of suspended concrete has a large amount of uncertainty, but the energy imbalances remain huge even when it is ignored entirely. All of these energy sink estimates are conservative in several respects.

They are based on an estimate of dust cloud volume at a time long before the cloud stopped growing.
They use a liberal estimate of the contribution of mixing to the volume.
They ignore thermal losses due to radiation.
They ignore the resistance to expansion due to the inertia of the suspended materials, and energy requirements to overcome it.

Conclusion
The amount of energy required to expand the North Tower's dust cloud was many times the entire potential energy of the tower's elevated mass due to gravity. The over 10-fold disparity between the most conservative estimate and the gravitational energy is not easily dismissed as reflecting uncertainties in quantitative assessments.

The official explanation that the Twin Tower collapses were gravity-driven events appears insufficient to account for the documented energy flows.
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 11:29 AM
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Re: Strong scientific evidence that the falling towers lacked the potential energy to pulverize all the concrete AND suspend it in air
Excellent report, but I don’t seem to have read any mention of the biggest component of the disaster; which was the ‘mushroom cloud’? Classic demolitions don’t have huge mushroom clouds towering over them, suspending the fine particles in obvious hot caches of air. Perhaps something a little more powerful was used in combination with normal conventional explosives.

abomb
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 11:37 AM
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Re: Strong scientific evidence that the falling towers lacked the potential energy to pulverize all the concrete AND suspend it in air
There was simply not enough energy to do what was done, something had to added to the system.
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 11:38 AM
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Re: Strong scientific evidence that the falling towers lacked the potential energy to pulverize all the concrete AND suspend it in air
Of course. The two collapses were not examples of conventional demolition, as in the case of WTC 7. They wanted to make sure NOTHING of significant size remained, just in case not all the towers fell down (don't want unexploded demolition charges/wiring or thermate left around in plain sight, do we?). Quite apart from not wanting to expose to the world that it WAS a controlled demolition. So they had to make it look like the floors were compacting in succession. They failed miserably.
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 12:40 PM
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Re: Strong scientific evidence that the falling towers lacked the potential energy to pulverize all the concrete AND suspend it in air
self- bump
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 12:45 PM
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Re: Strong scientific evidence that the falling towers lacked the potential energy to pulverize all the concrete AND suspend it in air
What about the 10 seconds to collapse that alone proves the pancake effect is utter bull shit.
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 12:49 PM
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Re: Strong scientific evidence that the falling towers lacked the potential energy to pulverize all the concrete AND suspend it in air
You tards make me laugh...

Did any of you make it out of 8th grade?

1rof1
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 12:50 PM
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Re: Strong scientific evidence that the falling towers lacked the potential energy to pulverize all the concrete AND suspend it in air
You tards make me laugh...

Did any of you make it out of 8th grade?

1rof1
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 156126

Why do you need some help getting out?
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 12:51 PM
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Re: Strong scientific evidence that the falling towers lacked the potential energy to pulverize all the concrete AND suspend it in air
DUH!
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 12:55 PM
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Re: Strong scientific evidence that the falling towers lacked the potential energy to pulverize all the concrete AND suspend it in air
Let me see....

1. Pull numbers out of ass.

2. Use numbers to support conspiracy theory.

3. Be hailed as a genius by all the woowoo's.
cb
User ID: 150790
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10/19/2006 01:21 PM
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Re: Strong scientific evidence that the falling towers lacked the potential energy to pulverize all the concrete AND suspend it in air
that's a good one.
so the "melted steel" could have sort of thrown-towards-the-street all this "mass" of concrete, ....sure, uhhhhh,...ok. ok.

________________
but i have to go read some debunking some people were going to do.
yes. i'll go do thay now.
cb
User ID: 150790
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10/19/2006 01:29 PM
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Re: Strong scientific evidence that the falling towers lacked the potential energy to pulverize all the concrete AND suspend it in air
more clear thinking:

the "pancake effect" COULD have worked, and it WOULD explain the free-fall data that is now common knowledge (?).
For this to happen, and for the building to free-fall,...EVERY FLOOR needs to hit the floor below at EXACTLY THE SAME INSTANT. Get it?
I know. It's hard to imagine. It's hard to imagine that floor#105 hit floor#104 at the same time that floor#7 hit floor#6.

(or in other words....the ceiling of every office hit the floor)....AT EXACTLY THE SAME TIME,...about 9 seconds later.
A "concerted effort" sort of, huh?
__________________________________-
cb
User ID: 150790
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10/19/2006 01:31 PM
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Re: Strong scientific evidence that the falling towers lacked the potential energy to pulverize all the concrete AND suspend it in air
...when the "melted steel" threw the concrete into the street it must have thrown the hijackers passport out there too.
.....................​
User ID: 156463
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10/19/2006 01:42 PM
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Re: Strong scientific evidence that the falling towers lacked the potential energy to pulverize all the concrete AND suspend it in air
I think its time you dumb americans got over the fact that the WTC was hit by 2 planes and that there wasnt any nukes or other bombs , ufos,men in black, earthquakes , mind control, cosmic forces or the like.... and science cant prove everything and some articals you read are just plane crap made up to spin a story for idiots..
My advice for these people who will read and belive everything they see or hear is this .... your the stupid fucks that your govenment actually control and you have none of your own..
you truely are sheep ...in sheeps clothing ... give it up and go back to your jobs..its over ,now get over it,
as for those that died R.I.P


crazy
zazzman
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10/19/2006 01:50 PM
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Re: Strong scientific evidence that the falling towers lacked the potential energy to pulverize all the concrete AND suspend it in air
Let me be the first!!!

Face it, a large passenger plane had never hit a building/sky scraper like this before... this guy did a good paper, but does not know what he is talking about!!! bsflag
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 121552
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10/19/2006 01:51 PM
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Re: Strong scientific evidence that the falling towers lacked the potential energy to pulverize all the concrete AND suspend it in air
I think its time you dumb americans got over the fact that the WTC was hit by 2 planes and that there wasnt any nukes or other bombs , ufos,men in black, earthquakes , mind control, cosmic forces or the like.... and science cant prove everything and some articals you read are just plane crap made up to spin a story for idiots..
My advice for these people who will read and belive everything they see or hear is this .... your the stupid fucks that your govenment actually control and you have none of your own..
you truely are sheep ...in sheeps clothing ... give it up and go back to your jobs..its over ,now get over it,
as for those that died R.I.P


crazy
 Quoting: ..................... 156463


So a post with the correct data proving how the official story is literally impossible is put on here, and you go on to attack the families of the victims?

You people are sick.
Fool
User ID: 142889
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10/19/2006 01:55 PM
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Re: Strong scientific evidence that the falling towers lacked the potential energy to pulverize all the concrete AND suspend it in air
Let me be the first!!!

Face it, a large passenger plane had never hit a building/sky scraper like this before... this guy did a good paper, but does not know what he is talking about!!! bsflag
 Quoting: zazzman 153028



and you know what you're talking about?

spock
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 02:12 PM
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Re: Strong scientific evidence that the falling towers lacked the potential energy to pulverize all the concrete AND suspend it in air
Let me be the first!!!

Face it, a large passenger plane had never hit a building/sky scraper like this before... this guy did a good paper, but does not know what he is talking about!!! bsflag
 Quoting: zazzman 153028

That's fair, zazzman. Could you please give information showing that Hoffman doesn't know what he is talking about? The 111,000 KWH of energy released by the fall is based on FEMA data. The gas expansion formulas are commonly-accepted physics laws.

What hidden agenda do you have to support the government's story by blind faith?

Or is it intellectual laziness, discounting it off hand so you don't have to think very much?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 151643
United States
10/19/2006 02:19 PM
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Re: Strong scientific evidence that the falling towers lacked the potential energy to pulverize all the concrete AND suspend it in air
more clear thinking:

the "pancake effect" COULD have worked, and it WOULD explain the free-fall data that is now common knowledge (?).
For this to happen, and for the building to free-fall,...EVERY FLOOR needs to hit the floor below at EXACTLY THE SAME INSTANT. Get it?
I know. It's hard to imagine. It's hard to imagine that floor#105 hit floor#104 at the same time that floor#7 hit floor#6.

(or in other words....the ceiling of every office hit the floor)....AT EXACTLY THE SAME TIME,...about 9 seconds later.
A "concerted effort" sort of, huh?
__________________________________-
 Quoting: cb 150790

Excellent point, cb. And, these calculations don't even factor in the energy required to break all the connections to the steel support, nor the energy required to break those steel supportes into 30ft lengths.
Daniel

User ID: 156489
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10/19/2006 03:43 PM
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Re: Strong scientific evidence that the falling towers lacked the potential energy to pulverize all the concrete AND suspend it in air
NON-Scientific:

Common Sense dictates that the Collapse of BOTH WTC Towers was more like a
VOLCANIC ERUPTION!!!

I have studied Vids and broken them down to Single frame Pics.

It was an ERUPTION - Spewing I-Beams hundreds of yards from point of origin.
There was enough ENERGY to cause the concrete & drywall and most of the contents into a Pyroclaustic(sp) dust - broken down to .001 of an inch or less.

Common SENSE folks - Floor to Floor Collapse - MAKES NO SENSE!!!
Neither Time wise nor the pulverized rubble.

"They" are trying to tell you NOT to believe what you are seeing.

Daniel

:history:
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 03:47 PM
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Re: Strong scientific evidence that the falling towers lacked the potential energy to pulverize all the concrete AND suspend it in air
Yes, Daniel. These scientific calculations show that the official story isn't plausable.
tachikoma
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10/19/2006 04:57 PM
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Re: Strong scientific evidence that the falling towers lacked the potential energy to pulverize all the concrete AND suspend it in air
Let me be the first!!!

Face it, a large passenger plane had never hit a building/sky scraper like this before... this guy did a good paper, but does not know what he is talking about!!! bsflag

That's fair, zazzman. Could you please give information showing that Hoffman doesn't know what he is talking about? The 111,000 KWH of energy released by the fall is based on FEMA data. The gas expansion formulas are commonly-accepted physics laws.

What hidden agenda do you have to support the government's story by blind faith?

Or is it intellectual laziness, discounting it off hand so you don't have to think very much?
 Quoting: EQP


It´s possible that the guys are CENTCOM agents:

RAW STORY
Published: Monday October 16, 2006

"CENTCOM announced earlier this year that a team of employees would be "[engaging] bloggers who are posting inaccurate or untrue information, as well as bloggers who are posting incomplete information."
"

[link to www.rawstory.com]
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 07:48 PM
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Re: Strong scientific evidence that the falling towers lacked the potential energy to pulverize all the concrete AND suspend it in air
Funny

The smoking gun is the Smoke

The Energy it takes to make a smoke cloud is the smoking gun.

Easy as pie
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 07:59 PM
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Re: Strong scientific evidence that the falling towers lacked the potential energy to pulverize all the concrete AND suspend it in air
bump for truth






:hitler:
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 08:17 PM
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Re: Strong scientific evidence that the falling towers lacked the potential energy to pulverize all the concrete AND suspend it in air
The smoking gun is...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 147249


Heard THAT before!
normedica22

User ID: 155834
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10/19/2006 08:47 PM
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Re: Strong scientific evidence that the falling towers lacked the potential energy to pulverize all the concrete AND suspend it in air
In other words... It was important for those Twin Towers to collapse, so scientists can have a better understanding on how the energy was inable to keep it in place? Thats the most important thing to think about before any creation of a building
Earnest

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10/19/2006 09:18 PM
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Re: Strong scientific evidence that the falling towers lacked the potential energy to pulverize all the concrete AND suspend it in air
Ok. Like most here, I am not an engineer and can't make too many technical comments about the content of the article.

My question is --Why, if a software engineer like Hoffman can make mincemeat of the NIST report, why aren't actual structural engineers coming out with the same thing?

-They exist all over the world, and have access to all the information that Hoffman did. I don't care how paranoid you are, don't tell me they can all be controlled.

-They would absolutely have looked at the mechanics of the collapse. It is the first time something like this has happened. What structural engineer WOULDN'T look into it to learn what he could?

-Why are none of them in any of these groups - 911research, 911truth etc?


I looked through the FAQ to see if this was addressed, and not too surprisingly, it isn't. I haven't read the whole site yet, but I have been looking for and haven't found any reference to Hoffman or anyone else there consulting with any experts about their conclusions, or asking them to review their papers.
Reality is interesting enough.
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 09:34 PM
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Re: Strong scientific evidence that the falling towers lacked the potential energy to pulverize all the concrete AND suspend it in air
Oh, hell.

Those buildings collapsed just like the official conspiracy theory says.

Just why would anyone think it strange all that 100-floors of steel structure in place to hold those buildings up and resist collapse would, poof, speed downward as fast as an anvil dropped from the top of the WTC and falling through thin air?

Doesn't everyone understand that steel structure and thin air are the same?





GLP