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Men beware - Attorney discusses differences between drunk sex and date rape

 
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 12:27 PM
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Men beware - Attorney discusses differences between drunk sex and date rape
All it takes is for her to have regrets in the morning and you are off to jail and labeled a sexual predator for life.

-------------

Attorney discusses differences between drunk sex and date rape News
by Russell Plummer, of the Advance Titan Issue: Thursday, October 19, 2006
Added: 10/18/2006 11:14:28 PM

A split decision came from an audience playing a jury Thursday after a guest speaker told the story of drunken sex being ruled as date rape.

President of The National Center for Higher Education Risk Management, Ltd. and attorney Brett Sokolow spoke at a presentation called “Drunk Sex or Date Rape: Can you Tell the Difference?” However, instead of giving facts, statistics and opinion, Sokolow used a real-life story he structured to inform, shock and even entertain the audience.

Sokolow said it was not his job to inform listeners about sexual assault, but to create a forum for everyone to think and talk about a tough issue together.

He used the names “Todd” and “Amy” for confidentiality reasons.

The situation he spoke of ended in court, where Todd was found guilty of sexual assault. He was sentenced to two years in a medium-security prison and had to register as a Tier Three sexual predator. The intelligent young man could not get back into a four-year college and earned an associate’s degree in facilities management at a community college.

Todd could not find a job and Sokolow helped him get employed at a state highway program for convicted felons, where he shoveled salt at a winter safety facility.

Amy dropped out of her university after trying to kill herself, went to counseling for two years and eventually went back to school to become a journalist.

The collapse of these two lives began one day at about 11 p.m.

Amy and her friends were trying to figure out what to do on Thursday night. They entered a house party that met their criteria for a good time: there were lots of single guys and plenty of beer. She headed straight to the bar and consumed five beers in the first hour. Amy was only 5 feet, 4 inches tall and 125 pounds.

Around midnight, Todd arrived and they were introduced to each other. There was instant chemistry. He figured he would match what he thought she drank and consumed three beers. He then decided to stop drinking.

Amy, however, continued to drink, and took five Jell-O shots with 190-proof alcohol. The drinks were voluntarily drunk after Todd brought them to her.

Todd escorted Amy to her residence and Amy invited him inside. He helped her get settled and was about to leave when she grabbed him and gave him a passionate kiss. They “mildly” fooled around, yet the abundance of alcohol forced her to head 10 feet to vomit in a toilet.

After the second bout of illness, Amy returned with brushed teeth. She then stopped his advances due to the possible return of her sickness. Todd said he couldn’t stop then because he was at “the point of no return,” an alleged state when a man is extremely sexually aroused. However, Sokolow dismissed that with examples of others exiting a situation once reaching that “point.”

Amy then passed out for 20 minutes and Todd spent the time watching television. She awoke in a condition Todd felt was improved and they engaged in what Todd called in court “highly participatory intercourse” with each other.

Later Todd exited the residence while Amy slept and he left a note with his name, a message and phone number. Amy’s roommate returned from her night out and inquired about the note.

Amy called Todd and he gave her a detailed retelling of exactly what happened. The last thing she could recollect was the two shots he gave her. He confirmed that he did wear a condom, but she still wanted to learn more. She went to the campus police and talked to the Sergeant. The officer immediately took her to a hospital and they used a “rape kit.”

Then a court date was set and the rest still remains in Sokolow’s speech as he continues to tour campuses.

“I am not standing in front of you tonight saying ‘don’t drink’,” Sokolow said. “I am not saying ‘don’t have sex.’ What I am saying is that this case points out better than anything I can think of the risks that are involved when you combine the two.”

The audience gave Sokolow a rousing applause as they headed out into the night after he urged them to remember Todd and Amy the next time they had too much too drink.

“This is my second time seeing him and I love him. I think he is awesome,” Senior Liz Luciano, 21, said. “I like how his speech is not about what sexual assault is, but he gives you a case. I think he is a really good speaker and he should come back.”

Luciano’s boyfriend attended the speech as well.

“She had told me he is a really good speaker,” Senior Andy McHugh, 24, said. “He really gave people good insight about the legalities of the whole thing, stuff you really don’t think about, especially the situation these people were put in.

Sokolow said that over a period of ten years, he has told the story to 1,200 college campuses and the vote from the audience jury was never unanimous.

“If I told you stats all night your eyes would glaze over,” Sokolow said. “It would be meaningless to you. I made these two students real for you. I think that works because we all can relate to this.”

[link to www.advancetitan.com]
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 12:33 PM
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Re: Men beware - Attorney discusses differences between drunk sex and date rape
Don't pork drunk chicks...

Got it...
AC
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10/19/2006 12:42 PM
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Re: Men beware - Attorney discusses differences between drunk sex and date rape
Don't leave your name and phone number.
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 12:44 PM
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Re: Men beware - Attorney discusses differences between drunk sex and date rape
Things were so much easier in the early 70's. Best pick-up line: "Wanna?"
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 12:49 PM
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Re: Men beware - Attorney discusses differences between drunk sex and date rape
Don't leave your name and phone number.
 Quoting: AC 2218


LOL. Exactly.
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 12:50 PM
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Re: Men beware - Attorney discusses differences between drunk sex and date rape
Either hire a whore or find a hole in the ground.
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 01:23 PM
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Re: Men beware - Attorney discusses differences between drunk sex and date rape
This why they need to have 24 hr Supermarket available in all campuses so they can go buy a canteloupe to cut a hole and release a few nuts!
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 01:29 PM
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Re: Men beware - Attorney discusses differences between drunk sex and date rape
Who the fuck cares, as long as its not a high court judge his opinion means shit.
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 01:35 PM
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Re: Men beware - Attorney discusses differences between drunk sex and date rape
I agree stay away from women who are drinking or doing drugs.

Also there is no such thing as a point of no return. If you "think" you can't stop go to the rest room and use your hand, but you CAN stop.
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 02:37 PM
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Re: Men beware - Attorney discusses differences between drunk sex and date rape
I had to work late closing at my first resteraunt job when i was 15. My mom was suppose to pick me up but want there and I called he and she sounded so tired. The manager offered me a ride home because he had to go my way anyway. That was a big mistake. He ended up turning down a dirt road to park, and wouldnt take me straight home.
That idiot thought he had a right to put his creepy hands on me and started trying to force me back, and even ripped my blouse. Thats when I got out really fast, called him a Ahole and rean in the woods to hide. Finally he left, and when it was clear I walked two miles home at 1am on a very unlit road. Actuall I ran like _ _ _ _ ! I never went back to that job, or told my mother. Now this same crap is happening to my beautiful daughter, and I hate men!
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 02:38 PM
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Re: Men beware - Attorney discusses differences between drunk sex and date rape
wasnt there..oops
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 02:42 PM
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Re: Men beware - Attorney discusses differences between drunk sex and date rape
I have had men groping me at work, trying to rape me in the back freezer. Even old creeps bothering me making sexual comments about my body parts, even now at 40
Michele
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10/19/2006 02:54 PM
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Re: Men beware - Attorney discusses differences between drunk sex and date rape
A good idea for women is take care of yourself,don't get yourself into these situations and respect yourself. as presented the guy was stupid but not criminal. Rape happens and knowing this women have a responsibility to pay heed to their conduct. No matter rape ,real rape,is an issue of aggression and control and me-ism. Why with all the disease and remarkable dissassociative and dysfunctional personalities roaming the world would someone just jump into intercourse so readily anyway?
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 02:58 PM
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Re: Men beware - Attorney discusses differences between drunk sex and date rape
whatever. you say you hate men but are actually a filthy whore. ive banged enough of your type in my time to see the difference, and i dont believe you. enough said.

it is really easy. if a woman says yes, fuck her in every hole you can get away with. if she says no, leave her the hell alone. here is the kicker. if it seems to be a one night stand, like most easy women, MAKE G DAM SURE THAT SHE NEVER EVER GETS YOUR REAL NAME MUCH LESS A PHONE NUMBER!

his mistake was confusing a piece of whore one night stand ass with a woman. her mistake was being a whore and not being proud of it. because of her self hate (see slut posting above) she screwed her own life, and the life of another.

moral of the story? NEVER TRUST A WHORE. MALE OR FEMALE!
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 03:18 PM
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Re: Men beware - Attorney discusses differences between drunk sex and date rape
you are a sick person! I have been married to the same man for 20 years, and have been faithful, so dont call me a whore!
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 03:20 PM
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Re: Men beware - Attorney discusses differences between drunk sex and date rape
also, I was molestes at age 4 by a man, and I didnt ask for that
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 03:22 PM
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Re: Men beware - Attorney discusses differences between drunk sex and date rape
A good idea for women is take care of yourself,don't get yourself into these situations and respect yourself. as presented the guy was stupid but not criminal. Rape happens and knowing this women have a responsibility to pay heed to their conduct. No matter rape ,real rape,is an issue of aggression and control and me-ism. Why with all the disease and remarkable dissassociative and dysfunctional personalities roaming the world would someone just jump into intercourse so readily anyway?
 Quoting: Michele 156477


How can you not get into situations, especially when at work! Your just there to earn a living and these bastards think thay have a right to touch you just because they think all women are loose like the whores they see on porn sites! Those women who do such things are dogs, and so are the filthy men!
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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10/19/2006 03:27 PM
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Re: Men beware - Attorney discusses differences between drunk sex and date rape
I don't see this post or story presented in it trying to downplay real rape at all. Real forced rape is a horrendous crime that should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

I saw the point of this post as more of a warning in how far to the 'pro-victim' side of things we have gone. While what the guy did was perhaps stupid, it was not rape in the sense of attacking her forcefully. The problem is the law rarely sees any difference between the two and if anything, the feminist agenda is to make all forms of 'rape' the same on the prosecution scale.

A woman changing her mind the next day after realizing she was drunk and regretted the evening should not result in a rape charge. If the man was drunk (and he may have been legally drunk since three beers would most likely put him over the limit to drive) would he be forgiven for raping someone because he didn't realize what he was doing? Hardly and rightfully so. Women in these situations need to take responsibility for their actions as well instead of branding a man with a felony record and sex criminal stamp the rest of his life.
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 03:28 PM
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Re: Men beware - Attorney discusses differences between drunk sex and date rape
whatever. you say you hate men but are actually a filthy whore. ive banged enough of your type in my time to see the difference, and i dont believe you. enough said.

it is really easy. if a woman says yes, fuck her in every hole you can get away with. if she says no, leave her the hell alone. here is the kicker. if it seems to be a one night stand, like most easy women, MAKE G DAM SURE THAT SHE NEVER EVER GETS YOUR REAL NAME MUCH LESS A PHONE NUMBER!

his mistake was confusing a piece of whore one night stand ass with a woman. her mistake was being a whore and not being proud of it. because of her self hate (see slut posting above) she screwed her own life, and the life of another.

moral of the story? NEVER TRUST A WHORE. MALE OR FEMALE!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 190


It seems like your a woman hater, maybe even a pshyco type. You treat women in a degrading manner, I hope you get aids and reap what you sow you pig!
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 03:29 PM
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Re: Men beware - Attorney discusses differences between drunk sex and date rape
I had to work late closing at my first resteraunt job when i was 15. My mom was suppose to pick me up but want there and I called he and she sounded so tired. The manager offered me a ride home because he had to go my way anyway. That was a big mistake. He ended up turning down a dirt road to park, and wouldnt take me straight home.
That idiot thought he had a right to put his creepy hands on me and started trying to force me back, and even ripped my blouse. Thats when I got out really fast, called him a Ahole and rean in the woods to hide. Finally he left, and when it was clear I walked two miles home at 1am on a very unlit road. Actuall I ran like _ _ _ _ ! I never went back to that job, or told my mother. Now this same crap is happening to my beautiful daughter, and I hate men!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 156480


i agree with the poster that said she was a whore, i bet you played on his dick nerve to get your ride home and when he wanted what you alluded to you freaked out.
you probably flirted with himn all night to get him to take you home.
i know women like that, flirty like crazy and then talk shit behind mens backs about how big of perverts they are.lead you on all day and when you act like a man youre a pervert

quit leading men on and they wont rape you,
i mean there are predators out there but shit if you are constantly getting put in these positions you gotta look at your own actions. the way you try to manipulate men is wrong and is the reason for your confrontations.

quit trying to make men do things by teasing them sexually and you wont get put in these akward positions.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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10/19/2006 03:32 PM
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Re: Men beware - Attorney discusses differences between drunk sex and date rape
If any women on here are putting up with strong unwelcome advances in the workplace, why aren't you using the harassment laws to have the activity stopped? A company following these laws is NOT optional. The activity either ceases or the company is liable.

There is no reason to put up with unwelcome sexual advances in the workplace.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 156480
United States
10/19/2006 03:34 PM
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Re: Men beware - Attorney discusses differences between drunk sex and date rape
I don't see this post or story presented in it trying to downplay real rape at all. Real forced rape is a horrendous crime that should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

I saw the point of this post as more of a warning in how far to the 'pro-victim' side of things we have gone. While what the guy did was perhaps stupid, it was not rape in the sense of attacking her forcefully. The problem is the law rarely sees any difference between the two and if anything, the feminist agenda is to make all forms of 'rape' the same on the prosecution scale.

A woman changing her mind the next day after realizing she was drunk and regretted the evening should not result in a rape charge. If the man was drunk (and he may have been legally drunk since three beers would most likely put him over the limit to drive) would he be forgiven for raping someone because he didn't realize what he was doing? Hardly and rightfully so. Women in these situations need to take responsibility for their actions as well instead of branding a man with a felony record and sex criminal stamp the rest of his life.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9482


a woman or girl getting herself drunk has no business claiming rape, especially if she led the guy on..she is reaping what she is sowing. But I was sexually harrassed at work without asking for it, even trying to avoid it, and men are treating all women like filthy whores when most are not. They watch too many sick porn sites that are degrading to the good women , that are the mothers of children with christian families and clean ones who are not like that, but all are put in the whore catogory .
messenger
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10/19/2006 03:36 PM
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Re: Men beware - Attorney discusses differences between drunk sex and date rape
Don't worry sisters. We're slowly leaving this planet. Women don't want to incarnate here anymore. Many men driven societies don't want us to procreate there either (China, India). The men have a sense of this and are beginning to turn to their brothers for their sexual satisfaction. Some women may stay but those highly evolved female oriented souls are going elsewhere. How is this possible? Because women of certain knowledge have the ability to procreate without men's seed. This is the knowledge taken from you in the garden and it will be given back to you at the appropriate time.
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 03:36 PM
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Re: Men beware - Attorney discusses differences between drunk sex and date rape
If any women on here are putting up with strong unwelcome advances in the workplace, why aren't you using the harassment laws to have the activity stopped? A company following these laws is NOT optional. The activity either ceases or the company is liable.

There is no reason to put up with unwelcome sexual advances in the workplace.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9482


Id rather just quit, tahn be around the idiots at all. I work from home
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 03:40 PM
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Re: Men beware - Attorney discusses differences between drunk sex and date rape
I had to work late closing at my first resteraunt job when i was 15. My mom was suppose to pick me up but want there and I called he and she sounded so tired. The manager offered me a ride home because he had to go my way anyway. That was a big mistake. He ended up turning down a dirt road to park, and wouldnt take me straight home.
That idiot thought he had a right to put his creepy hands on me and started trying to force me back, and even ripped my blouse. Thats when I got out really fast, called him a Ahole and rean in the woods to hide. Finally he left, and when it was clear I walked two miles home at 1am on a very unlit road. Actuall I ran like _ _ _ _ ! I never went back to that job, or told my mother. Now this same crap is happening to my beautiful daughter, and I hate men!


i agree with the poster that said she was a whore, i bet you played on his dick nerve to get your ride home and when he wanted what you alluded to you freaked out.
you probably flirted with himn all night to get him to take you home.
i know women like that, flirty like crazy and then talk shit behind mens backs about how big of perverts they are.lead you on all day and when you act like a man youre a pervert

quit leading men on and they wont rape you,
i mean there are predators out there but shit if you are constantly getting put in these positions you gotta look at your own actions. the way you try to manipulate men is wrong and is the reason for your confrontations.

quit trying to make men do things by teasing them sexually and you wont get put in these akward positions.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 154126

actually I was only 15, my first job, ver shy, a virgin, and I thought I could trust an adult manager for a ride home, I wasnt attracted at all to him, he was married. Nop, I didnt flirt, I barely spoke at all.
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 03:42 PM
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Re: Men beware - Attorney discusses differences between drunk sex and date rape
I have had men groping me at work, trying to rape me in the back freezer. Even old creeps bothering me making sexual comments about my body parts, even now at 40
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 156480
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 03:47 PM
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Re: Men beware - Attorney discusses differences between drunk sex and date rape
Okay, my two cents. I think it's wrong for a guy to take advantage of a girl that's totally drunk, BUT shouldn't a person take responsibility for themselves and NOT drink if it will lead to an undesirable act? It wasn't undesirable at the time of inebriation. This is how a person learns to take responsibility for themselves.
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 03:48 PM
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Re: Men beware - Attorney discusses differences between drunk sex and date rape
I was guilty of being nieve and this was in the late 70's before porn sites. This world has really gone down hill. Maybe women who dont want any attention should wear head covering like the muslims, so that men will know that we arent interested in any of there unwanted attentions.
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 03:50 PM
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Re: Men beware - Attorney discusses differences between drunk sex and date rape
I was guilty of being nieve and this was in the late 70's before porn sites. This world has really gone down hill. Maybe women who dont want any attention should wear head covering like the muslims, so that men will know that we arent interested in any of there unwanted attentions.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 156480



sorry but guys dont just start groping you, they dont just try to do you in the freezer if you dont make some kind of advances toward them.

every male you know isnt a predator, you are a dick tease
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 03:53 PM
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Re: Men beware - Attorney discusses differences between drunk sex and date rape
whatever, like i said, just because a woman is beautiful gives no right for a man to say you have a nice A--! Then when your typing, come up behind you and start messaging your shoulders
Anonymous Coward
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10/19/2006 03:56 PM
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Re: Men beware - Attorney discusses differences between drunk sex and date rape
yes they do!! there are many of those types of guys taht do, even old geesers

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