Why do people distrust authority at all levels? | |
George B (OP) Extinct But Not Forgotten! User ID: 69650140 United States 12/22/2015 10:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | OK . . . Thanks! Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter! "Email: [email protected]" All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them. Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642) The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B |
Non-Compliant User ID: 61961981 United States 12/22/2015 10:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Well, authority's a BS concept, so I neither trust nor distrust those who claim to have it. I despise them. Quoting: The_Original_Mind How do you feel about anarchy? an·ar·chy Quoting: Googlenoun a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority. "he must ensure public order in a country threatened with anarchy" I like how they word it... "a state of disorder..." As if to suggest that without "authority" there would automatically be "chaos", which is pure propaganda bullshit. They solidify their meaning with the first example sentence. "Threatened with anarchy"?? What a fucking crock. Last Edited by Non Compliant on 12/22/2015 10:04 PM |
George B (OP) Extinct But Not Forgotten! User ID: 69650140 United States 12/22/2015 10:05 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Someone once asked me;"Do you have a problem with authority figures?" "What authority figures?" :AlterIDU: It's simple "Authority Figures" are self appointed OVER myself and others. Some proclaim God appointed them -the Queen of England for instance (theoretically I'm Her property or the Pope who makes the same claim etc., others that because they have a qualification from a secular institute that their opinion is superior to all others and must be obeyed eg. any old government or corporate employee. I am a free man (in an unfree world)-I recognise NO Authority as being in a valid position to control me. Arrangements with other Sovereign Beings which are consensual are the only acceptable form of interaction, at least for me. Anyone else can go fuck themselves. What do you do to earn a living? Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter! "Email: [email protected]" All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them. Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642) The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B |
George B (OP) Extinct But Not Forgotten! User ID: 69650140 United States 12/22/2015 10:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Well, authority's a BS concept, so I neither trust nor distrust those who claim to have it. I despise them. Quoting: The_Original_Mind How do you feel about anarchy? an·ar·chy Quoting: Googlenoun a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority. "he must ensure public order in a country threatened with anarchy" I like how they word it... "a state of disorder..." As if to suggest that without "authority" there would automatically be "chaos", which is pure propaganda bullshit. They solidify their meaning with the first example sentence. "Threatened with anarchy"?? What a fucking crock. Can you give a real world example of how people live without any authority? Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter! "Email: [email protected]" All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them. Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642) The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B |
George B (OP) Extinct But Not Forgotten! User ID: 69650140 United States 12/22/2015 10:09 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | POLL: Why do people distrust authority at all levels? 11. Greed and revenge are the motivation of government actions so no one trusts any agency. 24.4% (11) 5. There is a grand plan to manipulate, destroying trust is part of it. 20.0% (9) 2. Human nature, those in power will fail, we need say no more. 13.3% (6) 10. People don't have the ability to sort out the truth, so everything becomes a lie. 13.3% (6) 4. Fiction and reality are mixed by special interest groups for selfish reasons. 11.1% (5) 1. The Internet. Instant communication makes everything questionable. 6.7% (3) 8. Parents, religion, institutions, etc. are simply incompetent, hypocrites . 4.4% (2) 3. Sensationalism in all media, the truth is secondary. 2.2% (1) 6. Cell phones and instant transmission of images, sounds and texts. 2.2% (1) 7. The educational systems teach people to distrust everything. 2.2% (1) 9. Political enemies seek to destroy opponents at any cost destroying everyone's credibility. 0% (0) 12. Hollywood and entertainment has flooded society with propaganda that everything is false or an illusion . . . 0% (0) Blank (View Results) (14) Non-Blank Votes: 45 Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter! "Email: [email protected]" All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them. Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642) The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 71076472 United States 12/22/2015 10:11 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Non-Compliant User ID: 61961981 United States 12/22/2015 10:12 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Well, authority's a BS concept, so I neither trust nor distrust those who claim to have it. I despise them. Quoting: The_Original_Mind How do you feel about anarchy? an·ar·chy Quoting: Googlenoun a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority. "he must ensure public order in a country threatened with anarchy" I like how they word it... "a state of disorder..." As if to suggest that without "authority" there would automatically be "chaos", which is pure propaganda bullshit. They solidify their meaning with the first example sentence. "Threatened with anarchy"?? What a fucking crock. Can you give a real world example of how people live without any authority? For this I am going to say something I'll probably catch flak for, but there are tribes of people who live perfectly fine without "GOVERNMENT authority"... I'm sure they have their own way of doing things, and there may even be some form of, and I hate to use this phrase, obviously- chain of command...within said tribe. But not like the bullshit "society" has to put up with. "Untouched" peoples in the Amazon and other similar places, Eskimos, etc. Maybe more in other places we don't even know about. I find the idea that we NEED "a government" and the rest of the shit that comes with it absolutely disgusting. And if this is how "society" is, then I don't want to be a part of it. But therein lies a problem... they make it so you can't just leave. Again, asserting that they have 'authority' over you. You know, if you are actually born amish and don't get a social security number, you don't have to play many of these fun games the rest of us do? But once you get one, you're fucked. And if you're born NOT amish, you most likely already are in the system, so you can't leave it, and who the fuck gave anyone permission for ME to even BE in the system in the first place? I sure as fuck did not pop out of my momma and say "Yup! I want to be a part of this grand game!" What utter horse shit. Last Edited by Non Compliant on 12/22/2015 10:15 PM |
George B (OP) Extinct But Not Forgotten! User ID: 69650140 United States 12/22/2015 10:13 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | College kids do not challenge any of their authorities. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71076472 They parrot them all. Why do you say that? Many think college kids are the most rebellious. Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter! "Email: [email protected]" All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them. Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642) The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B |
George B (OP) Extinct But Not Forgotten! User ID: 69650140 United States 12/22/2015 10:18 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | an·ar·chy Quoting: Googlenoun a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority. "he must ensure public order in a country threatened with anarchy" I like how they word it... "a state of disorder..." As if to suggest that without "authority" there would automatically be "chaos", which is pure propaganda bullshit. They solidify their meaning with the first example sentence. "Threatened with anarchy"?? What a fucking crock. Can you give a real world example of how people live without any authority? For this I am going to say something I'll probably catch flak for, but there are tribes of people who live perfectly fine without "GOVERNMENT authority"... I'm sure they have their own way of doing things, and there may even be some form of, and I hate to use this phrase, obviously- chain of command...within said tribe. But not like the bullshit "society" has to put up with. "Untouched" peoples in the Amazon and other similar places, Eskimos, etc. Maybe more in other places we don't even know about. I find the idea that we NEED "a government" and the rest of the shit that comes with it absolutely disgusting. Well most primitive type cultures have family or clan structures. The authority of a shaman, elder, best hunter, etc is followed. Some systems are very complex and defy easy analysis yet they are certainly there. When resources are limited authority is the strongest. Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter! "Email: [email protected]" All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them. Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642) The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 69739214 United States 12/22/2015 10:20 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 69739214 United States 12/22/2015 10:20 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 62323787 United States 12/22/2015 10:21 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
George B (OP) Extinct But Not Forgotten! User ID: 69650140 United States 12/22/2015 10:22 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | an·ar·chy Quoting: Googlenoun a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority. "he must ensure public order in a country threatened with anarchy" I like how they word it... "a state of disorder..." As if to suggest that without "authority" there would automatically be "chaos", which is pure propaganda bullshit. They solidify their meaning with the first example sentence. "Threatened with anarchy"?? What a fucking crock. Can you give a real world example of how people live without any authority? For this I am going to say something I'll probably catch flak for, but there are tribes of people who live perfectly fine without "GOVERNMENT authority"... I'm sure they have their own way of doing things, and there may even be some form of, and I hate to use this phrase, obviously- chain of command...within said tribe. But not like the bullshit "society" has to put up with. "Untouched" peoples in the Amazon and other similar places, Eskimos, etc. Maybe more in other places we don't even know about. I find the idea that we NEED "a government" and the rest of the shit that comes with it absolutely disgusting. And if this is how "society" is, then I don't want to be a part of it. But therein lies a problem... they make it so you can't just leave. Again, asserting that they have 'authority' over you. You know, if you are actually born amish and don't get a social security number, you don't have to play many of these fun games the rest of us do? But once you get one, you're fucked. And if you're born NOT amish, you most likely already are in the system, so you can't leave it, and who the fuck gave anyone permission for ME to even BE in the system in the first place? I sure as fuck did not pop out of my momma and say "Yup! I want to be a part of this grand game!" What utter horse shit. You think the Amish don't exert control over their people? Try living under their way of life and you will experience significant control. Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter! "Email: [email protected]" All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them. Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642) The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B |
Non-Compliant User ID: 61961981 United States 12/22/2015 10:24 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Non-Compliant ... I like how they word it... "a state of disorder..." As if to suggest that without "authority" there would automatically be "chaos", which is pure propaganda bullshit. They solidify their meaning with the first example sentence. "Threatened with anarchy"?? What a fucking crock. Can you give a real world example of how people live without any authority? For this I am going to say something I'll probably catch flak for, but there are tribes of people who live perfectly fine without "GOVERNMENT authority"... I'm sure they have their own way of doing things, and there may even be some form of, and I hate to use this phrase, obviously- chain of command...within said tribe. But not like the bullshit "society" has to put up with. "Untouched" peoples in the Amazon and other similar places, Eskimos, etc. Maybe more in other places we don't even know about. I find the idea that we NEED "a government" and the rest of the shit that comes with it absolutely disgusting. And if this is how "society" is, then I don't want to be a part of it. But therein lies a problem... they make it so you can't just leave. Again, asserting that they have 'authority' over you. You know, if you are actually born amish and don't get a social security number, you don't have to play many of these fun games the rest of us do? But once you get one, you're fucked. And if you're born NOT amish, you most likely already are in the system, so you can't leave it, and who the fuck gave anyone permission for ME to even BE in the system in the first place? I sure as fuck did not pop out of my momma and say "Yup! I want to be a part of this grand game!" What utter horse shit. You think the Amish don't exert control over their people? Try living under their way of life and you will experience significant control. That's not what I said. |
George B (OP) Extinct But Not Forgotten! User ID: 69650140 United States 12/22/2015 10:31 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | For this I am going to say something I'll probably catch flak for, but there are tribes of people who live perfectly fine without "GOVERNMENT authority"... I'm sure they have their own way of doing things, and there may even be some form of, and I hate to use this phrase, obviously- chain of command...within said tribe. But not like the bullshit "society" has to put up with. "Untouched" peoples in the Amazon and other similar places, Eskimos, etc. Maybe more in other places we don't even know about. I find the idea that we NEED "a government" and the rest of the shit that comes with it absolutely disgusting. And if this is how "society" is, then I don't want to be a part of it. But therein lies a problem... they make it so you can't just leave. Again, asserting that they have 'authority' over you. You know, if you are actually born amish and don't get a social security number, you don't have to play many of these fun games the rest of us do? But once you get one, you're fucked. And if you're born NOT amish, you most likely already are in the system, so you can't leave it, and who the fuck gave anyone permission for ME to even BE in the system in the first place? I sure as fuck did not pop out of my momma and say "Yup! I want to be a part of this grand game!" What utter horse shit. You think the Amish don't exert control over their people? Try living under their way of life and you will experience significant control. That's not what I said. OK . . . give me a real world example of what you consider an acceptable system under which you would want to live? Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter! "Email: [email protected]" All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them. Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642) The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 51931399 United States 12/22/2015 10:39 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 71076472 United States 12/22/2015 10:42 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | College kids do not challenge any of their authorities. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71076472 They parrot them all. Why do you say that? Many think college kids are the most rebellious. In the '60s it was "Question authority." Now now. none of them challenge anything any scientist or expert or study says. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 71076472 United States 12/22/2015 10:42 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | College kids do not challenge any of their authorities. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71076472 They parrot them all. Why do you say that? Many think college kids are the most rebellious. In the '60s it was "Question authority." Not now. none of them challenge anything any scientist or expert or study says. |
Non-Compliant User ID: 61961981 United States 12/22/2015 10:52 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Non-Compliant For this I am going to say something I'll probably catch flak for, but there are tribes of people who live perfectly fine without "GOVERNMENT authority"... I'm sure they have their own way of doing things, and there may even be some form of, and I hate to use this phrase, obviously- chain of command...within said tribe. But not like the bullshit "society" has to put up with. "Untouched" peoples in the Amazon and other similar places, Eskimos, etc. Maybe more in other places we don't even know about. I find the idea that we NEED "a government" and the rest of the shit that comes with it absolutely disgusting. And if this is how "society" is, then I don't want to be a part of it. But therein lies a problem... they make it so you can't just leave. Again, asserting that they have 'authority' over you. You know, if you are actually born amish and don't get a social security number, you don't have to play many of these fun games the rest of us do? But once you get one, you're fucked. And if you're born NOT amish, you most likely already are in the system, so you can't leave it, and who the fuck gave anyone permission for ME to even BE in the system in the first place? I sure as fuck did not pop out of my momma and say "Yup! I want to be a part of this grand game!" What utter horse shit. You think the Amish don't exert control over their people? Try living under their way of life and you will experience significant control. That's not what I said. OK . . . give me a real world example of what you consider an acceptable system under which you would want to live? One in which others mind their own business, and don't try to force anyone else to do things their way using mafia style tactics like 'government'. Where people come to an agreement and get things done together, voluntarily, without threats or coercion. Without stealing money from other people, calling it taxes, and locking those who don't wish to have their money stolen from them in steel/concrete cages. It's a pipe dream, I know. People just aren't that way. It could be a real world example if people were not constantly trying to fuck over everyone else. And let's be honest, even those with the best intentions are involved in fucking over other people when they support having this lovely system in place. (Voting, etc. etc.) Because what about the people who don't wish to have their money stolen? Don't wish for this law, or that rule, or what have you? Are their opinions rendered moot just because the majority wills it? How fucked up is that? This world is not for people like me. I don't belong here. I really really do want off this fucking ride, because every single day something comes to my attention that is against what I hold dear in my heart and soul. |
George B (OP) Extinct But Not Forgotten! User ID: 70259862 United States 12/22/2015 11:19 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: George B You think the Amish don't exert control over their people? Try living under their way of life and you will experience significant control. That's not what I said. OK . . . give me a real world example of what you consider an acceptable system under which you would want to live? One in which others mind their own business, and don't try to force anyone else to do things their way using mafia style tactics like 'government'. Where people come to an agreement and get things done together, voluntarily, without threats or coercion. Without stealing money from other people, calling it taxes, and locking those who don't wish to have their money stolen from them in steel/concrete cages. It's a pipe dream, I know. People just aren't that way. It could be a real world example if people were not constantly trying to fuck over everyone else. And let's be honest, even those with the best intentions are involved in fucking over other people when they support having this lovely system in place. (Voting, etc. etc.) Because what about the people who don't wish to have their money stolen? Don't wish for this law, or that rule, or what have you? Are their opinions rendered moot just because the majority wills it? How fucked up is that? This world is not for people like me. I don't belong here. I really really do want off this fucking ride, because every single day something comes to my attention that is against what I hold dear in my heart and soul. Just curious . . , just how long have you been on this rock? Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter! "Email: [email protected]" All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them. Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642) The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B |
George B (OP) Extinct But Not Forgotten! User ID: 70259862 United States 12/22/2015 11:20 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | College kids do not challenge any of their authorities. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71076472 They parrot them all. Why do you say that? Many think college kids are the most rebellious. In the '60s it was "Question authority." Not now. none of them challenge anything any scientist or expert or study says. If you say so . . . Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter! "Email: [email protected]" All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them. Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642) The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B |
Sky Ward User ID: 71049890 United States 12/22/2015 11:21 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | College kids do not challenge any of their authorities. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71076472 They parrot them all. Why do you say that? Many think college kids are the most rebellious. In the '60s it was "Question authority." Not now. none of them challenge anything any scientist or expert or study says. If you say so . . . You keep some late hours OP. |
Nikola Tesla User ID: 3320371 United States 12/22/2015 11:44 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Probably because most people at the core of their soul don't like being told what to do. What they can and cannot do. There of course are limits to self determination. A person has to stay within socially acceptable boundaries. People want to decide for themselves the course to follow in their lives. That is why many people reject authority. "One person with courage is a majority." - Thomas Jefferson "You’ve heard that we are what we eat. But we also are what we think". “Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." -William F. Buckley Jr. |
George B (OP) Extinct But Not Forgotten! User ID: 70601825 United States 12/23/2015 07:36 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | In the '60s it was "Question authority." Not now. none of them challenge anything any scientist or expert or study says. If you say so . . . You keep some late hours OP. I do sometimes . . . Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter! "Email: [email protected]" All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them. Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642) The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B |
George B (OP) Extinct But Not Forgotten! User ID: 70601825 United States 12/23/2015 07:39 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Probably because most people at the core of their soul don't like being told what to do. What they can and cannot do. Quoting: Nikola Tesla There of course are limits to self determination. A person has to stay within socially acceptable boundaries. People want to decide for themselves the course to follow in their lives. That is why many people reject authority. Excellent!! Best answer so far! :C - Gun: Last Edited by George B on 12/23/2015 07:50 AM Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter! "Email: [email protected]" All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them. Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642) The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 69053278 United States 12/23/2015 07:42 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Misery loves company and karma is all too eager to see it through. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 69053278 United States 12/23/2015 07:46 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | In my opinion it's because most of the people here are welfare dogs and misery loves company...so if you're not willing to throw money at them you are no use to them...they create their own "end game" of a poor death...in a self-fulfilling prophecy. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69053278 Misery loves company and karma is all too eager to see it through. I mean think about it. What is authority? It's someone or something successful that's in place promoting or promising something successful and at that moment in time, by being the authority, *is* successful. It's everything a welfare dog is not. |
George B (OP) Extinct But Not Forgotten! User ID: 70601825 United States 12/23/2015 07:53 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | In my opinion it's because most of the people here are welfare dogs and misery loves company...so if you're not willing to throw money at them you are no use to them...they create their own "end game" of a poor death...in a self-fulfilling prophecy. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69053278 Misery loves company and karma is all too eager to see it through. Interesting take on the issue. Do you really think most people on GLP are on welfare? Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter! "Email: [email protected]" All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them. Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642) The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 69053278 United States 12/23/2015 07:54 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | In my opinion it's because most of the people here are welfare dogs and misery loves company...so if you're not willing to throw money at them you are no use to them...they create their own "end game" of a poor death...in a self-fulfilling prophecy. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69053278 Misery loves company and karma is all too eager to see it through. Interesting take on the issue. Do you really think most people on GLP are on welfare? It's safe to say at least 25% or more of GLPers are tweakers of some sort. I would put a single entire paycheck that at least 30% of GLP is on foodstamps, if not welfare. |
George B (OP) Extinct But Not Forgotten! User ID: 70601825 United States 12/23/2015 07:58 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | In my opinion it's because most of the people here are welfare dogs and misery loves company...so if you're not willing to throw money at them you are no use to them...they create their own "end game" of a poor death...in a self-fulfilling prophecy. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69053278 Misery loves company and karma is all too eager to see it through. Interesting take on the issue. Do you really think most people on GLP are on welfare? It's safe to say at least 25% or more of GLPers are tweakers of some sort. I would put a single entire paycheck that at least 30% of GLP is on foodstamps, if not welfare. Hmmmmm. . . that would be an interesting Poll. Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter! "Email: [email protected]" All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them. Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642) The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B |