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0.999... not equal 1. Its Math BS

 
9net
User ID: 158357
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10/25/2006 02:29 AM
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0.999... not equal 1. Its Math BS
anyone who knows what numbers really are can understand me.
0.999... is infinite fraction which is "believed" to be equal to 1.
Actually it very close,but not.
The thing is there 2 numbers.
0.9......... and 1.0 ,notice the second number.They do not magically flow into one another.The second number is different.

DIsproval of "proof of equality of 0.999.... to 1".
1. 0.333....=1/3
2. 3 * 1/3 =3/3=1
3. 0.333...*3 =0.999....

The proof rtelies on 0.333... being equal to 1/3,which is not completed division, it very close to 1/3 but you
cannot represent the complete result.
0.3 is close to 1/3, 0.33 is closer and so forth.Thats why it operates on different numbers(actually different forms:completed and non-completed) .
0.333... does not represent the fraction.Its incomplete representation.

Disproval of "algebra proof"
1. c=0.999...
2. 10c=9.999....
3. 10c-c=9c=9.999...-0.999...
4. 9c=9
5. c=1

The proof relies on completion of Infinite task,which looks very simple at first glance.
9.999...-0.999.... Each 9 is substracted
from the second number,
9.099..., 9.0099..., etc, the result is not equal to 9.
The task will result in 9.0000....
with unsubstracted digits,which cannot
be represented by a finite number.
Thus 9 not equal to 9.000.......


If anyone tries to convince you that infinite numbers are equal to finite numbers, tell him that there be
two ways to write a same number,therefore making them DIFFERENT NUMBERS.
Try writing 0.999.... for awhile
and 1 will not be equal to it anytime soon.the nines continue ad infinitum and never "converge" or " become magically equal to 1".No math in the world is capable of making numbers different in composition become one number.
The Split
User ID: 158137
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10/25/2006 02:34 AM
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Re: 0.999... not equal 1. Its Math BS
.9 = 1.0 = fuzzy math, eh?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 140901
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10/25/2006 02:46 AM
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Re: 0.999... not equal 1. Its Math BS
you don't understand infinity, or the concept of limits.

if you have an infinite number of widgets, and then you double them, you still have an infinite amount. But 2x does not equal x, we all know that! Uh, it does when you have nothing, because you still have nothing even if you double it.

Confused yet?
Zima
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10/25/2006 02:47 AM
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Re: 0.999... not equal 1. Its Math BS
This crap has been posted before(day of the number munchers), go publish your thesis. byekitty
Chuck

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10/25/2006 02:50 AM
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Re: 0.999... not equal 1. Its Math BS
The op is stuck in decimal. If you look at other systems, such as binary, or better yet trinary, 1/3 makes sense. In trinary 1/3 is 0.1 and 0.1(tri) x 10.0(tri) = 1.0(tri).
Anonymous Coward
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10/25/2006 02:57 AM
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Re: 0.999... not equal 1. Its Math BS
Isn't that similar to why the hare can never beat the tortise to the finish line?

This site has some math funnies on it:
[link to immense-world.blogspot.com]
IVVII
User ID: 158137
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10/25/2006 03:06 AM
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Re: 0.999... not equal 1. Its Math BS
Roman Numerals is the only way to fly. pilot
9net (OP)
User ID: 158357
Israel
10/25/2006 03:11 AM
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Re: 0.999... not equal 1. Its Math BS
Isn't that similar to why the hare can never beat the tortise to the finish line?

This site has some math funnies on it:
[link to immense-world.blogspot.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60359


Use common sense.Faster object wins eventually.if we discuss the time it takes to "reach the turtle" we shift he perception on the time period.
What the paradox is about is dicussing smaller and smaller time periods before
the hare/achiles reaches the turtle,just like looking at infinite fractions.

THe paradox is looking at time period which separate two objects,and then looks at smaller time period,which separates objects after "the first period passed".Its deception.
Anonymous Coward
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10/25/2006 03:20 AM
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Re: 0.999... not equal 1. Its Math BS
Pi is infinite; yet stable enough to generate a perfect circle... ROBOTdance
The Enchanter

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10/25/2006 03:22 AM
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Re: 0.999... not equal 1. Its Math BS
It isn't 1, but it is so close that you cannot comprehend it...

Technically, you might as well call it 1, because the part of it that isn't is infinitely small.
The Enchanter

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10/25/2006 03:24 AM
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Re: 0.999... not equal 1. Its Math BS
you don't understand infinity, or the concept of limits.

if you have an infinite number of widgets, and then you double them, you still have an infinite amount. But 2x does not equal x, we all know that! Uh, it does when you have nothing, because you still have nothing even if you double it.

Confused yet?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 140901


Someone else took some calculus...
9net (OP)
User ID: 158357
Israel
10/25/2006 03:55 AM
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Re: 0.999... not equal 1. Its Math BS
Pi is infinite; yet stable enough to generate a perfect circle... ROBOTdance
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 158137


Pi is not "stable" whatever it means, PI
is DERIVED from circle ratio to diameter.Decimal expansion of Pi is infinite and incomplete(though some japanese reserchers calculated billion of Pi digits)
9net (OP)
User ID: 158357
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10/25/2006 03:59 AM
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Re: 0.999... not equal 1. Its Math BS
you don't understand infinity, or the concept of limits.

if you have an infinite number of widgets, and then you double them, you still have an infinite amount. But 2x does not equal x, we all know that! Uh, it does when you have nothing, because you still have nothing even if you double it.

Confused yet?


Someone else took some calculus...
 Quoting: The Enchanter


You can't have Infinite Number of Something Material,Its a fixed number and 2x are always 2x.
2x widgets are twice as big as x.
Infinity cannot be represented by a number.Its a concept.

side note:how do you fit infinite widgets in our little universe?
Æon

User ID: 122996
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10/25/2006 04:01 AM
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Re: 0.999... not equal 1. Its Math BS
1/9 = .111...
2/9 = .222...
3/9 = .333...
4/9 = .444...
5/9 = .555...
6/9 = .666...
7/9 = .777...
8/9 = .888...
9/9 = .999...

I see a pattern here. And if 9/9 = .999..., then .999... = 1, because 9/9 = 1.
Ave Gæ , morituri te salutamus!
PI-thagerous
User ID: 158137
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10/25/2006 04:01 AM
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Re: 0.999... not equal 1. Its Math BS
from = to, no?
HH
User ID: 83967
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10/25/2006 04:02 AM
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Re: 0.999... not equal 1. Its Math BS
you don't understand infinity, or the concept of limits.

if you have an infinite number of widgets, and then you double them, you still have an infinite amount. But 2x does not equal x, we all know that! Uh, it does when you have nothing, because you still have nothing even if you double it.

Confused yet?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 140901


However, if you take an inifnite series of numbers and then look at just the odd number where infinity is x odd/infinity is 1/2x.

The odd/infinity is still infinite but now half the size of the whole series.

Similarly, take every thrid number. Now you have a 1/3x series, again smaller than 1/2x or x yet still infinite.

Confused?
Æon

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10/25/2006 04:08 AM
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Re: 0.999... not equal 1. Its Math BS
Confused?
 Quoting: HH 83967


Greater and lesser degrees of infinity is not confusing. The set of prime numbers is infinite. But it's a far smaller infinity than the set of whole numbers.
Ave Gæ , morituri te salutamus!
9net (OP)
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10/25/2006 04:09 AM
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Re: 0.999... not equal 1. Its Math BS
1/9 = .111...
2/9 = .222...
3/9 = .333...
4/9 = .444...
5/9 = .555...
6/9 = .666...
7/9 = .777...
8/9 = .888...
9/9 = .999...

I see a pattern here. And if 9/9 = .999..., then .999... = 1, because 9/9 = 1.
 Quoting: Æon


How can you be so sure you can count 0.111...? does it really equal 1/9?
Division of this fraction never stops.
0.xxx... is different number which is approximate to soluiton of 1/9,adding extra digits ad infinitum.
0.1,0.11,0.111, etc.1/9 is exact.9/9 is exact.
HH
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10/25/2006 04:30 AM
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Re: 0.999... not equal 1. Its Math BS
Confused?


Greater and lesser degrees of infinity is not confusing. The set of prime numbers is infinite. But it's a far smaller infinity than the set of whole numbers.
 Quoting: Æon


Exactly.
9net (OP)
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10/25/2006 04:42 AM
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Re: 0.999... not equal 1. Its Math BS
Confused?


Greater and lesser degrees of infinity is not confusing. The set of prime numbers is infinite. But it's a far smaller infinity than the set of whole numbers.


Exactly.
 Quoting: HH 83967


Clearly fails to be infinite.If the infinity (larger then anything) cannot be smalller then anything. You speak of a "extremely large set of numbers,uncountable" not infinity.]
I see there few prime numbers per normal numbers,but they both aren't considered infinite because set of Real Numbers (fraction x.yyyy) is bigger,the set of some exotic numbers like Surreal and Imaginary is bigger still,
There list of numebrs at [link to en.wikipedia.org]

Infinity is larger then this of course,and even the sum of all numbers,or multiplication of them all.
Anonymous Coward
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10/25/2006 04:55 AM
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Re: 0.999... not equal 1. Its Math BS
Integers stop, by definition real numbers never stop.

"0" is an integer
"0.00000000...." is a real number

0 = 0.000000.... This is apples and oranges... It's Ok, but exactly speaking it's not correct because these are two different kinds of number systems.

You are confusing integers, such as 1, 2, 3,... 104, ... and so on with "real numbers", such as:
1.0000000.....
2.0000000.....
3.0000000.....
4.0000000.....
etc.
"real numbers" never stop.

The math of integers and "real numbers" is not the same. "Real Numbers", by definition can not be written except as a process of endless writing, the more digits you write down the closer you get to the "real number"

In any event, numbers are not real things, they are only ideas. Take the concept of the number "1", this is just an abstraction. If you want to agree that "1" + "1" = "2", then you need to know that you are dealing with mental abstractions, because in reality there are no two things in existence that are exactly identical. In order to place two things into the set of similar items so they can both be considered "1"s you have to mentally abstract those things so that their differences are ignored.


1/9 = .111...
2/9 = .222...
3/9 = .333...
4/9 = .444...
5/9 = .555...
6/9 = .666...
7/9 = .777...
8/9 = .888...
9/9 = .999...

I see a pattern here. And if 9/9 = .999..., then .999... = 1, because 9/9 = 1.


How can you be so sure you can count 0.111...? does it really equal 1/9?
Division of this fraction never stops.
0.xxx... is different number which is approximate to soluiton of 1/9,adding extra digits ad infinitum.
0.1,0.11,0.111, etc.1/9 is exact.9/9 is exact.
 Quoting: 9net 158357
The Enchanter

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10/25/2006 05:02 AM
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Re: 0.999... not equal 1. Its Math BS
Confused?


Greater and lesser degrees of infinity is not confusing. The set of prime numbers is infinite. But it's a far smaller infinity than the set of whole numbers.
 Quoting: Æon



Whoa... Smaller Infinity? Maybe just slower? Nope. No such thing. Infinity is infinity.
The Enchanter

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10/25/2006 05:04 AM
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Re: 0.999... not equal 1. Its Math BS
Integers stop, by definition real numbers never stop.

"0" is an integer
"0.00000000...." is a real number

0 = 0.000000.... This is apples and oranges... It's Ok, but exactly speaking it's not correct because these are two different kinds of number systems.

You are confusing integers, such as 1, 2, 3,... 104, ... and so on with "real numbers", such as:
1.0000000.....
2.0000000.....
3.0000000.....
4.0000000.....
etc.
"real numbers" never stop.

The math of integers and "real numbers" is not the same. "Real Numbers", by definition can not be written except as a process of endless writing, the more digits you write down the closer you get to the "real number"

In any event, numbers are not real things, they are only ideas. Take the concept of the number "1", this is just an abstraction. If you want to agree that "1" + "1" = "2", then you need to know that you are dealing with mental abstractions, because in reality there are no two things in existence that are exactly identical. In order to place two things into the set of similar items so they can both be considered "1"s you have to mentally abstract those things so that their differences are ignored.




1/9 = .111...
2/9 = .222...
3/9 = .333...
4/9 = .444...
5/9 = .555...
6/9 = .666...
7/9 = .777...
8/9 = .888...
9/9 = .999...

I see a pattern here. And if 9/9 = .999..., then .999... = 1, because 9/9 = 1.


How can you be so sure you can count 0.111...? does it really equal 1/9?
Division of this fraction never stops.
0.xxx... is different number which is approximate to soluiton of 1/9,adding extra digits ad infinitum.
0.1,0.11,0.111, etc.1/9 is exact.9/9 is exact.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60359



Sweet... I can't believe you took the time to type that and quell this. I'm too lazy.
Anonymous Coward
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10/25/2006 05:05 AM
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Re: 0.999... not equal 1. Its Math BS
Decimal places are an illusion.

You can only have zero of something, or one of something. Nothing in between.

For example you could claim to have 0.2 of a litre of water, but that is just a fraction of an idea that is something we call a litre.

You could claim to chop an apple in half and have 0.5 of it. The other half still exists therfore = 1.0 apples.

You could mash the apple down to an atomic level, but then you would be counting whole atoms, not fractions of an apple.

If you split those atoms you dont have 0.1 of an atom or whatever number. You no longer have the atom. It has gone from one atom to zero atoms.
HH
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10/25/2006 05:08 AM
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Re: 0.999... not equal 1. Its Math BS
There are 10 types of people who understand binary: those who do and those who don't....
Anonymous Coward
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10/25/2006 05:14 AM
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Re: 0.999... not equal 1. Its Math BS
You say illusion, I say idea, illusion, idea, it's all the same to me. Imaginary numbers are really illusions, but they have been very useful in math. Numbers are not real, physical things, they only exist in thought space. They are infinitely flexible. When you stop to think about it, it is amazing how useful those crazy ideas have been.

Decimal places are an illusion.

You can only have zero of something, or one of something. Nothing in between.

For example you could claim to have 0.2 of a litre of water, but that is just a fraction of an idea that is something we call a litre.

You could claim to chop an apple in half and have 0.5 of it. The other half still exists therfore = 1.0 apples.

You could mash the apple down to an atomic level, but then you would be counting whole atoms, not fractions of an apple.

If you split those atoms you dont have 0.1 of an atom or whatever number. You no longer have the atom. It has gone from one atom to zero atoms.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11338
HH
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10/25/2006 06:57 AM
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Re: 0.999... not equal 1. Its Math BS
Looks like someon e been reading Wikipedia....

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
Anonymous Coward
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10/25/2006 04:49 PM
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Re: 0.999... not equal 1. Its Math BS
We have had this discussion before, but the OP is correct.

.9999999... does not equal 1, it CANNOT.


.9 is < 1, by 1/10

.99 is < 1, by 1/100

.999 is < 1 by 1/1000

No matter how many nines you add, the 1 in the numerator NEVER goes away, even though the denominator becomes infinitely large.

So, 1 divided by an infinitely large number, is still GREATER than zero divided by an infinitely large number.

I write this as someone who had a perfect math score on the ACT test.

I know correctness when I see it, and I know an error when I see it.
Anonymous Coward
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10/25/2006 04:58 PM
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Re: 0.999... not equal 1. Its Math BS
5.4567... = 18000 if you consider that the small decimal increments in 5.4567.. will go on forever.

every number is a 'disconnected' aspect of 1 and zero is the total disconnection of 1.
Anonymous Coward
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10/25/2006 05:05 PM
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Re: 0.999... not equal 1. Its Math BS
5.4567... = 18000 if you consider that the small decimal increments in 5.4567.. will go on forever.

every number is a 'disconnected' aspect of 1 and zero is the total disconnection of 1.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 143138



Huh ?

5.4567...will always be less than 6, not to mention less than 5.5.

Not exactly 18,000.
bbb

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10/25/2006 05:28 PM
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Re: 0.999... not equal 1. Its Math BS
1/9 = .111...
2/9 = .222...
3/9 = .333...
4/9 = .444...
5/9 = .555...
6/9 = .666...
7/9 = .777...
8/9 = .888...
9/9 = .999...

I see a pattern here. And if 9/9 = .999..., then .999... = 1, because 9/9 = 1.
 Quoting: Æon

I don't believe the people that posted here
are beyond a third grade level.

1/9th < .111...
9/9th > .999...

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