NEMO ALERT: Australian Fuel System Alternate-Energy

Could you give a summary of what is supposed to be happening in the chamber? Why the different gasses? If it's a vacuum, why the mix of gases?


p

I'll try to get the answer.

Great. He goes on about this and that, but he doesn't get very specific about what is supposed to be happening in the chamber. If he's really on the up and up, he should want to get this to the rest of us so we can get out from under the oil cartel.

While waiting foe email reply, might want to look over here
[link to www.cyberspaceorbit.com]

And here:

[link to web.archive.org]

Not sure which is which at this point.

I don't understand how he's making nitrogen hyroxide instead of hydroxy (Browns gas). The apparatus looks like a simple cracker to me, how is he getting the nitrogen?

There is a site that works on this all the time [link to oupower.com] and most of the disigns on it are well in advance of this one. They do produce hydroxy but one design by a gent named AlskaStar produces nitrogen hydroxide by using nickel in combination with a high nitrogen source (urine). The setup uses no electricity but the heat from the exhaust. The nickel is the catalyst to crack the urine.

The big improvment here is that nitrogen hydroxide is not explosive where as hydroxy is. Because hydroxy already has the oxygen for combustion it is very unstable. The nitrogen in the equation squelches the flame untill more oxygen is added. Hence no exposion untill properly mixed.

Check out the forums at the site above very good info. Also if anyone can figure out how to keep the water from freezing without producing serious byproducts I would be interested.

The current emailer is a new party working with two other techs:

One of them says:

Please read the text fully otherwise my efforts to explain this system will be impeded.
I had much difficulty in believing the claims here however I know they work because I have tried it myself.
Now the actual fuel is not hydrogen but nitrogen hydroxide N(OH)2 synthesized by the action of the engines suction, electric current and a magnetic field which develops within the cell, I know its very hard to believe but for myself I dont care why it works I just know it does. Below is a very good depiction of the system, there is not much to it I will now explain how to install it.

Air is bled in small amounts into the cell done by the suction of the engines intake strokes. The nitrogen needed in the nitrogen hydroxide compound is replaced by the intake of air which is about 70-78% nitrogen depending where you are. The connection to the engine is usually and recommended to be done by direct connection to the engines intake manifold, usually the Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) is the easiest and best option, engines which have fuel injection, computers and oxygen sensors are not worth converting unless you can reprogram the computer or replace the fuel delivery system with a non-electronic carburettor. A copper piping to the Positive Crankcase Ventilation with diameter of no more than 1.75cm (3/4 inch) is highly preferable as larger diameter pipes reduce the effect of the suction/vacuum which develops in the cell from the engine. The Positive Crankcase Ventilation is a system in engines to discard gasses passing the piston rings (known as piston blow by) and also spits out small amounts of oil, you can use a T section with the cell and PCV from the engine to allow the PCV work normally. The air intake bleed valve should be closed as much as possible but still allow air in. Apparantly the vacuum generated by the engine accelerates the water decomposition to hydrogen and oxygen. Also according to the information source complementing a copper electromagnet on the anode improves the nitrogen fuel synthesis. Wrap insulated copper wire into a coil then wrap the coil around the anode of the cell and connect to the anode in series, apprantly this will improve the nitrogen hydroxide synthesis up to 10 times. Having the outer pipe as anode (positive) apparantly is best, this contradicts logical electrolysis cell design I know butcannot offer an explanation its just experience of the people who invented this system 15 years ago. Not much electrolyte is needed just a few granules of rock salt per litre cell volume capacity. The magnetic field in the cell is important for its intended function and different areas in the engine bay may produce different results. When the cell has had its one week break in period most engines will behave differently compared to before the cell was installed you should experience more reving from the engine with less accelerator pedal pressure and the idling may be higher.

[link to web.archive.org]

My avid interest, not being a techy is more input from those who are.

Waiting for email....

Howdy Kent: I have two questions well maybe three.
1. Doesn't the addition of salt create chlorine gas in the process?
2. Is the gas produced combustable when leaving the apparatus?
3. How did they determine it was nitrogen hydroxide?

This divice doesn't look any differant from the designs I've made or the ones on the forum I provided. Why would the unit produce a gas differant from the ones already tested?

A note of caution is in order: Most of these systems produce hydroxy gas which is very explosive even in small quantity. The use of a bubbler between the production vessel and the moter are needed to prevent the cracker from blowing up in a back fire (common when using hydroxy).

Could you give a summary of what is supposed to be happening in the chamber? Why the different gasses? If it's a vacuum, why the mix of gases?




Response:
We are legitimate and that is why we put together this set of documents. This was pretty much a lost technology and we are trying to bring it out of the closet so to speak so that everyone can look at it and replicate it if they so choose.

The truth of the matter is that nobody really knows why this system works, it just does. This is a totally unconventional system . It shouldn't work but it does. The more vacuum pulled on the chamber, the more fuel gas output. The more vacuum pulled on the chamber, the more nitrogen is needed and it is drawin into the chamber through an air inlet valve on the end plate as needed. Something about the electrolytic action on the water and salt mix, magnetic action of the wire coil and vacuum serve to speed up the reaction process. These various actions are reacting on the water and salt mixture which is causing outside nitrogen from the atmosphere to want to enter the cell and react with the water and salt mixture forming nitrogen hydroxide, the fuel gas referred to here. The magnetic wire wrap helps strip gas bobbles from the anode and cathode of the chamber so that more gas bubbles can be produced. As I said, we don't know why this works, it just does. We did not invent this technology but we have brought it out of the closet again, so that it can be enjoyed and replicated if desired.

Some very strong folks had suppressed this technology and we are doing our best to revive it.

EMAIL REPLY [verified, repeated]:
11/20/2006 10:04:43 A.M. Pacific Standard Time

Response:
We are legitimate and that is why we put together this set of documents. This was pretty much a lost technology and we are trying to bring it out of the closet so to speak so that everyone can look at it and replicate it if they so choose.

The truth of the matter is that nobody really knows why this system works, it just does. This is a totally unconventional system . It shouldn't work but it does. The more vacuum pulled on the chamber, the more fuel gas output. The more vacuum pulled on the chamber, the more nitrogen is needed and it is drawin into the chamber through an air inlet valve on the end plate as needed. Something about the electrolytic action on the water and salt mix, magnetic action of the wire coil and vacuum serve to speed up the reaction process. These various actions are reacting on the water and salt mixture which is causing outside nitrogen from the atmosphere to want to enter the cell and react with the water and salt mixture forming nitrogen hydroxide, the fuel gas referred to here. The magnetic wire wrap helps strip gas bubbles from the anode and cathode of the chamber so that more gas bubbles can be produced. As I said, we don't know why this works, it just does. We did not invent this technology but we have brought it out of the closet again, so that it can be enjoyed and replicated if desired.

Some very strong folks had suppressed this technology and we are doing our best to revive it.

E-mail 'em back and tell them to make sure their Life Insurance policies are paid up!

Howdy Kent: I have two questions well maybe three.
1. Doesn't the addition of salt create chlorine gas in the process?
2. Is the gas produced combustable when leaving the apparatus?
3. How did they determine it was nitrogen hydroxide?

This divice doesn't look any differant from the designs I've made or the ones on the forum I provided. Why would the unit produce a gas differant from the ones already tested?

A note of caution is in order: Most of these systems produce hydroxy gas which is very explosive even in small quantity. The use of a bubbler between the production vessel and the moter are needed to prevent the cracker from blowing up in a back fire (common when using hydroxy).


Response:
1.) Chlorine gas is not an issue here since there is a lot of incoming nitrogen that reacts with the cracked molecules in the chamber.
2.) Yes
3.) Fuel gas was tested and found to be nitrogen hydroxide gas. As with any reaction, there are always other gasses involved.

I guess my questions above still stand. This system is not that new and is not as complicated as many which could be a good thing. I'm still questioning the output of nitrogen hydroxide and the chlorine gas.

The use of the wire wrap is an electromagnet that does help to strip the bubbles from the electrode. The more surface area of the liquid in contact with the electrode the better. But I don't understand why they think it will produce more nitrogen when exposed to salt water?

I am in no way affiliated with OU Power but the sight is full of experiments some are good some not so good but will inform as to what is possible.

This one so far doesn't ring true at least as far as the nitrogen hydroxide.

E-mail 'em back and tell them to make sure their Life Insurance policies are paid up!



You are a real inspiration aren't you Futz?

OOOPS didn't see that before I posted!

I still think HMMM. Does it have more nitrogen than normal electrolysis?
And how does it differ from other units it looks exactly the same. If the nitrogen is high enough it shouldn't burn straight out of the electrolyzer hence it is still explosive.
That is one of the large points to nitrogen hydroxide.

The responder--160252-- is the original emailer.

Good deal. I'll back off and let the debate continue.

A Note [speaking of dangerous stuff]:

When I was a country kid the bumpkins made explosive stuff like many bumpkins do.

By far and above the best and most convenient kahbooms were old-fashioned gasoline kahbooms, but then I guess that was legal in those days.

92580 has a point! I filled a ballon about the size of a fist and set it off not only did it burn the hair off my arms it brought the cops (not fun!!). A small bubble is about like a firecracker.

People I've go togo I would like to explore this more and maybe later but I'm getting ready to go to NZ to pick up our boat and I only have 2 weeks to get ready.

Thanks for the info Kent I'll try to get back in later

Underground_Dude

OOOPS didn't see that before I posted!

I still think HMMM. Does it have more nitrogen than normal electrolysis?
And how does it differ from other units it looks exactly the same. If the nitrogen is high enough it shouldn't burn straight out of the electrolyzer hence it is still explosive.
That is one of the large points to nitrogen hydroxide.


Response:
Electrolysis is kind of a misnomer here. The purpose of this system is not to produce hydrogen from electrolysis but to free up hydrogen and oxygen so that they may be bonded to incomming nitrogen and create nitrogen hydroxide fuel gas which is very flammable indeed.

The more vacuum applied to the chamber from the engine, the more nitrogen is drawn into the chamber from the outside atmosphere and that nitrogen bonds with the oxygen and hydrogen to produce the nitrogen hydroxide fuel gas, which we are going to use as our fuel instead of petrol.

I apologies for having to leave:

So how is this differant from all the units I've built and tested and all the others out there?
Your setup is almost exactly the same as all the others but they don't claim nitrogen hydroxide. If there where enough nitrogen for this claim the gas wouldn't burn straight from the unit say on a welding tip. It would need the addition of O2 but because it would disperse into the atmosphere to quickly you wouldn't produce a flame that stayed if it produced one at all.

Do you post on [link to oupower.com] if not you should.

UD

I apologies for having to leave:

So how is this differant from all the units I've built and tested and all the others out there?
Your setup is almost exactly the same as all the others but they don't claim nitrogen hydroxide. If there where enough nitrogen for this claim the gas wouldn't burn straight from the unit say on a welding tip. It would need the addition of O2 but because it would disperse into the atmosphere to quickly you wouldn't produce a flame that stayed if it produced one at all.

Do you post on [link to oupower.com] if not you should.

UD




Response:
There are few diferent things going on in this system that you don't see in any of the other systems.

1) You've got electrolytic action on a very weak electrolyte.

2) You are using stream water and a very few grains of rock salt as a one time catalyst.

3) You are only reacting 12 volts DC on the chamber mixture.

4) You are pulling a lot of fresh air into the chamber which is mostly made up of nitrogen.

5) Once the chamber has been run for a while it generates approximately 13.7 volts on its own, just like a battery.

6) Unlike the other systems out there, the fuel gas is nitrogen hydroxide and not oxygen and/or hydrogen.

There are some very interesting nuances about this system that are really unlike anything else out there. The other systems may be close but there is no cigar. Check the other systems out, most of them are trying to make steam. They are frying the water with extremely high voltage; they are pulsating the water at different frequencies; etc...

Don't fight this thing. It is costing you nothing. Just go out there and build it and prove to yourself that it does work. It is a free gift for the world from the inventor and a few helpers.

Hey thanks for the info: Although you may find alot of people using this very system. I have built around 20 diferant configurations plate type, tube type, spiral cores all using 12v and between 2 and 20amps. I have tried differant spacing differant materials from cheap stainless to high grade 316. All worked about the same and nowhere near enough volume to run an auto engine although they did produce significant gains. Yep I've even tried creek water although that can make a real mess in the bottm of the reactor vessel.

How much volume are you producing on a single unit?

The one material that produced the highest volume was the stainless skin from a 60s era jet fighter.

Good luck with it and if you can find a way to keep it from freezing let us all know. That's why it's off the truck for the winter. It gets damn cold here.

UD

Hey thanks for the info: Although you may find alot of people using this very system. I have built around 20 diferant configurations plate type, tube type, spiral cores all using 12v and between 2 and 20amps. I have tried differant spacing differant materials from cheap stainless to high grade 316. All worked about the same and nowhere near enough volume to run an auto engine although they did produce significant gains. Yep I've even tried creek water although that can make a real mess in the bottm of the reactor vessel.

How much volume are you producing on a single unit?

The one material that produced the highest volume was the stainless skin from a 60s era jet fighter.

Good luck with it and if you can find a way to keep it from freezing let us all know. That's why it's off the truck for the winter. It gets damn cold here.

UD


Response:

As you said, there are a lot of similar working systems out there, especially in Australia. Once you get one in your car though it isn't healthy to talk about it, so we don't hear much from the guys who are actually using the technology.

The only cylinder material recommended is 316 SS. Anything else will greatly inhibit gas production.

The volume has been tested and there is a great deal of gas but I do not have the figures.

There are a lot of similar systems out there that look almost the same, since the foundation of most of the working systems is a simple (Joe Cell I) system. There are some similarities but that is where it ends with this system, unless you were lucky enough to have bought one of these systems while they were being commercially produced. Ohhh, Enough Said.

Go out there and produce some nitrogen hydroxide gas.

Historical notes: Dad Garrett
[link to www.keelynet.com]

Water Fuel
[link to www.cyberspaceorbit.com]

What is with the bump?

EMAIL
11/21/2006 9:05:08 A.M. Pacific Standard Time

I have attached two pics of the Joe Cell I, for comparison purposes. You might want to post this on your site for the folks to look at, so they can judge for themselves the similarities.

[link to www.cyberspaceorbit.com]
[link to www.cyberspaceorbit.com]

[link to www.cyberspaceorbit.com]

EMAIL:
Similarities of Joe Cell I & Australian fuel system:
1) Has an outer cylinder
2) Has an inner surface
3) Has an anode and cathode, (+) & (-) plate system.
4) Is a horizontal system.
5) Has end plates.
6) Made out of 316 stainless steel.
7) Has a gas outlet at the top of cylinder.
8) Has a check valve at the top of the cylinder.
9) The system is a working system.
10) The system runs of 12 volts DC.
11) Both are cylindrical.

Joe Cell Differences:
1) Gas produced is unknown.
2) Inner cylinder is a rolled mesh.
3) Otter cylinder is not wrapped with wire coil.
4) Water is a charged stream water typically with no chemical additives.
5) The end plates are screw on end plates.
6) The system is longer.
7) The distance between outer and inner cylinders is greater.

possible conversion?

What is the possibility of converting my 04 chevy with a 6.0 v8 to this system?
:history:

possible conversion?

What is the possibility of converting my 04 chevy with a 6.0 v8 to this system?
:history:


It is a very doable scenario. You need to figure the size or your engine. Figure in one 12" cylinder for every two liters of motor you have. You will probably need at least four of the small 12" cylinders, or if it were me doing it, I'd make two cylinders 24" long. You have to remember that you are going to run a little gasoline. The inventor went 3000 miles on two gallons of petrol and two liters of water. He had a 253 cubic V-6 for the test vehicle. You are going to have to disconnect the fuel injection and that part of the deal will be a pain for you. It might be easier to leave the fuel injection intact and then just turn off your fuel pump and disconnect your fuel lines to the injectors. You will need to supply the engine with a little fuel to keep the engine from burning up. The new fuel burns really hot and needs a little petrol to run with it or it will burn up in a couple of weeks or so. The inventor's test vehicle had been modified to fun on a very small lawnmower carby and that is the one that went 3000 miles on the two gallons of petrol and two liters of water. With a V-8 setup you are not going to get that mileage, but if you tweak your lawnmower carby down to almost no fuel out, you'll probably see some very astonishing mileage. You'll be getting alot better mileage than Pogue dit with his 250 mile per gallon gas carby back in the late 20s. When you get ready to mess with the lawnmower carby, you'll have to ask some questions so that we can guide you along. I do not remember the carby aspect being covered in the D18.pdf. There you go for now. You'll want to make the setup exactly as the author has said to build it to very close tolleranes, just make your 24" long instead of 12" long.