Recent Discoveries Involving Vitamin C | |
Vit. C taking maniac User ID: 175922 United States 12/31/2006 11:39 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 175151 United States 12/31/2006 11:52 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I agree, vitamin C is awesome. Here's my main sources: Personal Radical Shield™ [link to www.life-enhancement.com] Emergen-C [link to www.alacer.com] |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 175907 United States 12/31/2006 11:56 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 73162 United States 01/01/2007 12:04 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 159950 United States 01/01/2007 12:07 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I was taking a late night train from NYC to the suburbs recently with my son. We went to the McDonald's in the station and had a meal when a marauder came in to force us to give him out food. Yes, I spent four years in the martial arts, but that was 30 years ago. I stood up to him and he ran out. Then when we entered the train, a group of college kids followed us to where we were sitting. To get to the point, a few usual college things went on, and to quell a possible situation, I decided to take control by hitting a a 20 year old coed. We had a great time. Towards the end of the ride, we talked about how old I was. When I said I was 58, everyone gasped. Most of the kids left the train to change for different destinations, but one young woman remianed with me. When she got to her stop, she chose to go to the next car because the station was very dark and there were several people exiting in the next car. She couldn't get the door to the next car to open and summoned me. I used my martial arts training to open the door. She gasped in disbelief once again. I take 8000 mg of vitamin daily and have done so for ten years. End of story. PS, the 20 year old girl who I hit on (as one of my usual comedy routines) fell for me. And I'm devastated to have to ensure that I don't contact her. (It just wouldn't be right.) |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 91904 United States 01/01/2007 12:30 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Thanks dude. Quoting: Vit. C taking maniac 175922I take 5,000 mg of Vit. C per day. I'm a 45-year-old woman and people who don't know me think I'm in my early thirties. They freak out when they find out I have a 25-year-old son. Vit. C is most important. prove it... worth a shot? |
AC User ID: 160123 United States 01/01/2007 12:46 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 175941 Hong Kong 01/01/2007 12:58 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
wg User ID: 175945 United States 01/01/2007 01:27 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73162 Excellent link. |
Redheaded Stepchild User ID: 160010 United States 01/01/2007 01:36 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | She started corresponding with Linus Pauling. He convinced her to take massive doses of Vitamin C. She lived for 16 years. She would still be alive now if a nurse hadn't forgotten to check her morphine pain patch and put TWO of them on her (and at maximum dose instead of the prescribed minimum on the second patch). She'd fallen down and broken her hip (damned brittle bones). She was highly susceptible to morphine, and she went into a coma. I'm a firm believer in the value of mega-doses of Vitamin C. "Until you are willing to organize your friends and neighbors and literally shut down cities - drive at 5mph through the streets of major cities on the freeway and stop commerce, refuse to show up for work, refuse to borrow and spend more than you make, show up in Washington DC with a million of your neighbors and literally shut down The Capitol you WILL be bent over the table on a daily basis." Karl Denninger Don't blame me; I voted for Ron Paul. Silence is consent. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 175707 Australia 01/01/2007 01:40 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I heard years ago, if you are coming down with a bug, take 1 teaspoon Vit C powder (in water) every hour until you get diahrea. Count the number of spoonfuls you took. Go back in count to the one you took before you got the diahrea....that is as many as you need per day for your system. Excess Vit C goes straight through you so there's no sense taking it. ie: If you took 5 teaspoons Vit C then after the 6th one you got diahrea, then you need 5 teaspoons per day spread out evenly. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 172079 Australia 01/01/2007 03:02 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 172079 Australia 01/01/2007 03:03 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 176030 Australia 01/01/2007 09:39 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Thanks dude. Quoting: Vit. C taking maniac 175922I take 5,000 mg of Vit. C per day. I'm a 45-year-old woman and people who don't know me think I'm in my early thirties. They freak out when they find out I have a 25-year-old son. Vit. C is most important. What form of Vit C do you take? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1544 United States 01/01/2007 09:59 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | [link to www.mothernature.com] excerpt: "...The vitamin may also interfere with the absorption of tricyclic antidepressants, and it interferes with the results of certain diagnostic blood and urine tests, so you might want to mention your vitamin C intake to your doctor if you take these drugs or are going in for tests. People who have deficiencies in a red blood cell enzyme called glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase should not take large doses of vitamin C because it can damage their red blood cells and cause anemia. This deficiency is most common among people of African, Mediterranean or Asian descent. Some experts recommend limiting the use of chewable vitamin C tablets because they can cause enamel loss from the surface of the teeth and other dental problems." |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 176017 United States 01/01/2007 10:35 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | When I was either 37 or 38 years old, I had a liver problem that was worsening by the day, according to the doctor who was treating me. He gave me 6 months to live. I began to take 10,000mg of Vitamin C FIVE TIMES A DAY! That's 50,000mg/day, consumed over several months. I suffered no ill affects from that mega dosage. Not even diarrhea. Thirty-three years down the line, I'm still here, alive and well on planet Earth. Kidneys are fine. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 176017 United States 01/01/2007 10:48 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Here's some exciting information about the results of taking mega doses of Vitamin C: There is a sensible high-vitamin-C protocol that has been found to arrest cancer growths. There are sound theoretical reasons to add 400 mg of highly absorbable Coenzyme 10 (CoQ10) to any anti-cancer protocol. This dosage has initiated complete tumor regression in breast cancer patients - during clinical studies! "Amazingly, vitamin C has actually already been documented in the medical literature to have readily and consistently cured both acute polio and acute hepatitis, two viral diseases still considered by modern medicine to be incurable." - Thomas E. Levy, MD, JD Ames: High Dose Vitamins can Treat more then 50 Genetic Disorders Vitamin C Does Not Cause Kidney Stones!!! Why the Vitamin C Foundation Does Not Recommend Ester-C® (Neither does Hulda Clark) Sloan-Kettering Admits Vitamin C PROTECTS Against DNA Damage New research on vitamin C and tooth decay supports decades old reports that 6 gm vitamin C provides 100% protection against tooth cavities. [link to www.vitamincfoundation.org] [link to www.thecureforheartdisease.com] Other good websites: [link to curezone.com] ------------------------------------------------------------ ....thinking about how ascorbate could selectively kill cancer and not normal cells. Normal cells have catalase and cancer cells do not. Must read website [link to www.orthomed.com] The above site states that all manner of disease can be cured with either massive amounts of intervenous or oral Vit. C. Polio is just one of them. Anthrax is another. |
Anka User ID: 66283 United States 01/01/2007 11:05 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Are there any potential side effects from taking extra vitamin C? Quoting: AC 160123Kidney stones if you don't drink enough water. Which leads to another subject: [link to www.watercure.com] "We shall no longer hang on to the tails of public opinion, or to a non-existent authority, on matters utterly unknown and strange. We shall gradually become experts ourselves in the mastery of the knowledge of the future." ~ Wilhelm Reich |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 76420 United States 01/01/2007 11:31 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | People need to pay attention to the form of vitamin C they are taking. Cheap vitamin C pills sold in supermarket supplement sections are nothing but ascorbic acid. This is not the full vitamin C complex. This is like eating the peel of an orange, and thinking you've consumed the entire orange. NOT GOOD! In order to attain the full complex, one must take a natural form of vitamin C, such as pure rose hips or acerola powder, or from food. Taking ascorbic acid may be beneficial, but just realize that it is not real vitamin C. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 36052 United States 01/01/2007 12:04 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Medical Hypotheses doi:10.1016/j.mehy.2006.10.035 Copyright c 2006 Elsevier Ltd All rights reserved. Can ageing-related degenerative diseases be ameliorated through administration of vitamin C at pharmacological levels? Yi Lia and Herb E. Schellhorn, a, aLife Sciences Building, Department of Biology, McMaster University, Room 218, 1280 Main Street West, Hamilton, Ont., Canada L8S 4K1 Received 28 September 2006; accepted 1 October 2006. Available online 1 December 2006. SUMMARY Man, with other primates, lost the ability to synthesize vitamin C through an inactivating mutation of the gene encoding gulonolactone oxidase (GULO) millions of years ago. Though the consequences of this prehistoric loss must have been favorable (and thus selected for) at the population level, the inability to produce vitamin C may have serious health implications for modern humans, especially for those conditions in which antioxidants (like vitamin C) have been implicated as potential therapeutic agents. Two general types of recent findings regarding vitamin C have made re-evaluation of this important nutrient imperative. First, vitamin C is now known to be involved in several novel physiological phenomena including stem cell differentiation and respiratory development, which likely require pharmacological levels of vitamin C. Secondly, the growing recognition that many ageing-related diseases, including heart disease, neural degeneration and cancer, may have a contributing oxidative damage factor that might be reduced by dietary antioxidants such as vitamin C. In this paper, we hypothesize that high serum-level vitamin C provides important, broad-ranging therapeutic benefits in treating ageing-related degenerative diseases. This hypothesis can be readily tested using traditional and newly-developed genetically-engineered animal models. HYPOTHESIS FORMULATION The loss of endogenous vitamin C synthesis has been suggested as an adaptive trait in human evolution, and selected for at the population level [1]. Many theories have since been formulated on exactly what evolutionary advantages this loss had conferred [1], [2] and [3]. One notable hypothesis explains that the inability to produce vitamin C may have presented a selective mechanism against ageing populations, allowing the re-distribution of foods towards the young and fertile, hence enhancing the fitness of the species [1]. However, this mode of selection is probably not relevant in modern day human societies. The amount of vitamin C required for optimal human health has long been debated but new information indicates that high levels may be beneficial, particularly in special cases. A recent review further emphasizes the importance of adequate vitamin C intake, especially among ageing populations [2]. It suggests that with a major change in the cause of mortality and the consequent increase in the human lifespan, the lack of endogenous vitamin C, combined with the drastic decrease in dietary vitamin C intake (comparing to human ancestors), result in accumulation of harmful reactive oxygen species (ROS) [2], which is considered the leading cause of many degenerative diseases. As damage caused by unquenched oxidants accumulates with age, the impact of low-level serum vitamin C is likely more profound on ageing populations, which may contribute to the high incidence of degenerative diseases among the elderly. This notion is consistent with the well established view that oxidative stress is an important contributing factor to cellular senescence and ageing-related pathologies. Therefore, it is likely that this adaptive loss, though once favored in an evolutionary sense, may be now deleterious to the health of individuals. This possibility, in combination with new research findings, leads us to propose that an elevation of serum vitamin C by clinical means may help achieve the optimal oxidant/antioxidant balance, hence ameliorating degenerative diseases caused by accumulation of reactive oxygen species, especially those that are ageing-related. This reconsideration of the therapeutic functions of vitamin C is also supported by empirical evidence drawn from recent studies, in which numerous novel physiological phenomena of ascorbic acid have been identified. As a co-factor for collagen synthesis, ascorbic acid, at high concentrations (100-200 æM), facilitates the differentiation of embryonic stem cells to cardiomyocytes [4], suggesting a potential role in the developmental processes of mammals. The potential therapeutic properties of vitamin C against various ROS-related diseases have been shown in several recent in vitro studies. For example, vitamin C, at high doses, is able to selectively target and kill cancer cells by producing toxic hydrogen peroxide [5]. The beneficial effects of vitamin C on cardiovascular health are also well known; and a growing body of evidence now points to an underlying mechanism in which vitamin C scavenges ROS [6], and in effect, reducing oxidative damages to the vascular system [7] and [8]. Transfection of human endothelial cells with vector expressing recombinant gulonolactone oxidase results in ascorbic acid synthesis and stimulated production of nitric oxide [9], a key regulator of vascular function often reduced under oxidative stress. These results are consistent with previous observations that ascorbic acid improves vasodilation in diabetes patient by rescuing nitric oxide (NO)-dependent endothelial dysfunction [10], and that ageing-related flow-dependent, endothelium-mediated dilation (FDD) dysfunction caused by vascular oxidative stress can be relieved by supplementation with antioxidant vitamin C [11]. In addition, high doses of vitamin C can effectively reduce cholesterol-induced atherosclerosis in rabbits. However, this effect is not observed when low doses of vitamin C are administered [12]. Similar to cancer and cardiovascular disease, ageing-related neural degenerative diseases, such as Parkinson's disease (PD) and Alzheimer's disease (AD), also have a strong oxidative damage component, and may be attenuated by supplementation with vitamin C [13]. As an antioxidant, ascorbic acid protects neural cells from hydroxyl peroxide-induced damage in a dose-dependent manner [14]. Apart from its antioxidant functions, vitamin C, at high concentrations (200 æM) in vitro, alters gene expression profiles of mesencephalic precursors, resulting in their differentiation into dopaminergic neurons [15], hence further supporting the use of vitamin C in the treatment of neural degeneration. Therefore, based on the presented empirical evidence, we propose that high doses of vitamin C can ameliorate ageing-related degenerative diseases, and improve the health status of ageing populations. The primary prediction derived from this hypothesis is that elderly individuals subjected to high dose vitamin C therapy should exhibit better health, reflected by the lower incidence of degenerative diseases, including cancer, cardiovascular and neural degenerative diseases, than individuals consuming regular amounts of vitamin C. The validity of this prediction can be tested with long-term nutritional and clinical studies. The availability of new transgenic animal models makes it possible to examine this hypothesis directly in well-controlled in vivo experiments. For example, the recent generation of Gulo knockout mice [16] permits a closer study of the therapeutic effects of vitamin C in vivo using a well-established rodent model. The effects of vitamin C on ageing-related DNA damage can be examined by monitoring the levels of intracellular mutagenesis biomarkers such as 8-oxo deoxyguanosine in Gulo knockout mice treated with various amounts of vitamin C. The validity of the previous prediction can thus be verified with this in vivo assay. CONCLUSION In summary, vitamin C is a potent antioxidant produced by most mammals. The loss of endogenous vitamin C and reduced dietary intake resulted in decreased vitamin C levels in the blood, which, in turn, leads to elevation of free radicals in the cell, and ultimately, the onset of degenerative diseases. As unquenched free radicals accumulate with age, we propose the deleterious effects of oxidative stress are most profound in ageing populations. Drawing evidence from numerous studies, we extrapolate that vitamin C, at high serum concentrations, is effective in treating and preventing degenerative diseases, particularly those that are ageing-related. We hope that this hypothesis will yield new insights into the therapeutic values of vitamin C, and stimulate additional research into the therapeutic potential of this important nutrient. ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS We thank C.R. Joyce for reviewing the manuscript and members of the HES lab, past and present, who have made contributions to this project. We acknowledge the funding agencies of the HES lab, including the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council of Canada (NSERC) and the Canadian Institutes of Health Research (CIHR), for financial support. REFERENCES [1] J. Millar, Vitamin C - the primate fertility factor?, Med Hypotheses 38 (1992), pp. 292-295. SummaryPlus | Full Text + Links | PDF (414 K) | Abstract + References in Scopus | Cited By in Scopus [2] I.F. Benzie, Evolution of dietary antioxidants, Comp Biochem Phys A 136 (2003), pp. 113-126. SummaryPlus | Full Text + Links | PDF (666 K) | Abstract + References in Scopus | Cited By in Scopus [3] J.J. Challem, Did the loss of endogenous ascorbate propel the evolution of Anthropoidea and Homo sapiens?, Med Hypotheses 48 (1997), pp. 387-392. SummaryPlus | Full Text + Links | PDF (577 K) | Abstract + References in Scopus | Cited By in Scopus [4] D.M. Shin, J.I. Ahn, K.H. Lee, Y.S. Lee and Y.S. Lee, Ascorbic acid responsive genes during neuronal differentiation of embryonic stem cells, Neuroreport 15 (2004), pp. 1959-1963. Abstract-MEDLINE | Abstract-EMBASE | Abstract-Elsevier BIOBASE | Full Text via CrossRef | Abstract + References in Scopus | Cited By in Scopus [5] Q. Chen, M.G. Espey and M.C. Krishna et al., Pharmacologic ascorbic acid concentrations selectively kill cancer cells: action as a pro-drug to deliver hydrogen peroxide to tissues, Proc Natl Acad Sci USA 102 (2005), pp. 13604-13609. Abstract-Elsevier BIOBASE | Abstract-MEDLINE | Full Text via CrossRef | Abstract + References in Scopus | Cited By in Scopus [6] B. Hornig, N. Arakawa, C. Kohler and H. Drexler, Vitamin C improves endothelial function of conduit arteries in patients with chronic heart failure, Circulation 97 (1998), pp. 363-368. Abstract-MEDLINE | Abstract-EMBASE | Abstract + References in Scopus | Cited By in Scopus [7] G.M. Chisolm and D. Steinberg, The oxidative modification hypothesis of atherogenesis: an overview, Free Radic Biol Med 28 (2000), pp. 1815-1826. SummaryPlus | Full Text + Links | PDF (95 K) | Abstract + References in Scopus | Cited By in Scopus [8] J.L. Witztum and D. Steinberg, Role of oxidized low density lipoprotein in atherogenesis, J Clin Invest 88 (1991), pp. 1785-1792. Abstract-MEDLINE | Abstract-EMBASE | Abstract + References in Scopus | Cited By in Scopus [9] H.J. Kim, S.I. Lee and D.H. Lee et al., Ascorbic acid synthesis due to L-gulono-1,4-lactone oxidase expression enhances NO production in endothelial cells, Biochem Biophys Res Commun 345 (2006), pp. 1657-1662. SummaryPlus | Full Text + Links | PDF (257 K) [10] H.H. Ting, F.K. Timimi, K.S. Boles, S.J. Creager, P. Ganz and M.A. Creager, Vitamin C improves endothelium-dependent vasodilation in patients with non-insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus, J Clin Invest 97 (1996), pp. 22-28. Abstract-MEDLINE | Abstract-EMBASE | Abstract + References in Scopus | Cited By in Scopus [11] I. Eskurza, K.D. Monahan, J.A. Robinson and D.R. Seals, Effect of acute and chronic ascorbic acid on flow-mediated dilatation with sedentary and physically active human ageing, J Physiol-London 556 (2004), pp. 315-324. Abstract-Elsevier BIOBASE | Abstract-EMBASE | Abstract-MEDLINE | Abstract + References in Scopus | Cited By in Scopus [12] S. Das, R. Ray, Snehlata, N. Das and L.M. Srivastava, Effect of ascorbic acid on prevention of hypercholesterolemia induced atherosclerosis, Mol Cell Biochem 285 (2006), pp. 143-147. Abstract-MEDLINE | Abstract-EMBASE | Abstract-Elsevier BIOBASE | Full Text via CrossRef [13] K.H. Masaki, K.G. Losonczy and G. Izmirlian et al., Association of vitamin E and C supplement use with cognitive function and dementia in elderly men, Neurology 54 (2000), pp. 1265-1272. Abstract-MEDLINE | Abstract-Elsevier BIOBASE | Abstract-EMBASE | Abstract + References in Scopus | Cited By in Scopus [14] H.J. Heo and C.Y. Lee, Protective effects of quercetin and vitamin C against oxidative stress-induced neurodegeneration, J Agric Food Chem 52 (2004), pp. 7514-7517. Abstract-MEDLINE | Full Text via CrossRef [15] D.H. Yu, K.H. Lee and J.Y. Lee et al., Changes of gene expression profiles during neuronal differentiation of central nervous system precursors treated with ascorbic acid, J Neurosci Res 78 (2004), pp. 29-37. Abstract-Elsevier BIOBASE | Abstract-MEDLINE | Abstract-EMBASE | Full Text via CrossRef | Abstract + References in Scopus | Cited By in Scopus [16] N. Maeda, H. Hagihara, Y. Nakata, S. Hiller, J. Wilder and R. Reddick, Aortic wall damage in mice unable to synthesize ascorbic acid, Proc Natl Acad Sci USA 97 (2000), pp. 841-846. Abstract-MEDLINE | Abstract-Elsevier BIOBASE | Abstract-EMBASE | Abstract-EMBASE | Full Text via CrossRef | Abstract + References in Scopus | Cited By in Scopus Corresponding author. Tel.: +1 905 525 9140x27316; fax: +1 905 522 6066. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 36052 United States 01/01/2007 12:18 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | SNIPPETS: "I suggest that vitamin C acts as a population control mechanism, a `fertility factor' in primate societies, which regulates the size of the population to match the available food supply. In times of food shortages this mechanism works to ensure the selective survival of the younger and more fertile members of the species, thus ensuring rapid repopulation when food resources recover." "The sales of preparations containing vitamin C suggests that a large proportion of the population does indeed take a daily supplement of this vitamin. If the present model is correct, this will mean that more people will survive into old age than ever before. Moreover, we can expect many of these individuals to be able to take an active part in society for longer than was previously possible. Thus we can expect a shift upwards in the median age of the working population and an increase in the proportion of elderly patients. Whether this is in the best long-term interests of the species is not clear." ---------------------- FULL TEXT: [link to www.sciencedirect.com] Medical Hypotheses (1992) 38: 292-295 Vitamin C: The Primate Fertility Factor? J. MILLAR Date received 18 November 1991 Department of Physiology, Basic Medical Sciences, Queen Mary & Westfield College, Mile End Road, London El 4NS ABSTRACT The loss of the ability of primates and man to synthesise ascorbic acid (vitamin C) is usually seen as an evolutionary accident, with no benefit to the species. This paper argues that the loss of this biosynthetic ability has allowed vitamin C to act as a `fertility factor' in primate societies. It is argued that the requirement for vitamin C increases with age, and so in times of foot shortages the older members of society suffer higher mortality than the younger. This reduces the median age of the population towards the younger and most fertile members, and so enables the population to regrow rapidly when food resources are restored. Introduction Scurvy is a particularly horrible disease; the description of it given in the classic treatise by James Lind in 1767 (1, 2) shows that without vitamin C the human body falls apart. The teeth fall out, the bones crumble; blood leaks from capillaries throughout the body: the muscles and skin waste away. Unlike most infectious diseases, no single organ or body structure is targeted for attack: rather, the whole organism gradually disintegrates. Fortunately scurvy in its fully developed form is rare nowadays in the Western world. But it is easy to see from Lind's book why the disease was feared throughout Europe until the end of the 18th century. Seamen were particularly vulnerable, and there are reports of whole ships being struck down by this dreaded scourge. And yet vitamin C, which we now know is necessary and sufficient to prevent the disease, is a simple molecule close in structure to a sugar; more to the point, almost all other creatures who need ascorbic acid (vitamin C) in their metabolism can synthesise it themselves from commonly available precursors (3). So the great unanswered question is `Why can't man?' For some reason we are without the ability to synthesise this vital ingredient for our well-being. Insects, invertebrates and fishes, usually considered lower on the evolutionary ladder, have not developed the biosynthetic machinery, but primates, along with the guinea-pig and fruit bats, have lost it (4). It seems an evolutionary blunder of the first magnitude. Irwin Stone in 1966 put forward the idea that we are victims of an `inborn error of metabolism' (5). The suggestion was that this loss is some evolutionary accident which has no survival value. Yet it is difficult to feel easy with this answer. Surely the loss of a biosynthetic ability that could cause such a severe deficiency disease would work against the survival of the affected group. The belief that the loss by primates of the ability to synthesise vitamin C, even if caused by a random mutation, did in fact confer an evolutionary advantage on those groups affected is the basis of this article. I suggest that vitamin C acts as a population control mechanism, a `fertility factor' in primate societies, which regulates the size of the population to match the available food supply. In times of food shortages this mechanism works to ensure the selective survival of the younger and more fertile members of the species, thus ensuring rapid repopulation when food resources recover. Why should there be a need for a population control factor in primates? We start with the argument that a special population control mechanism is needed in primates because of their unusual reproductive behaviour. The reproductive behaviour of some mammals (for example many ungulates) is seasonal and is primarily controlled by the hours of daylight. In others (for example rabbits) it is controlled by the availability of food, but for primates reproductive behaviour is not under any obvious environmental constraints. In most other animals copulation only occurs at times of female fertility or, for reflex ovulators, when the female has the ability to release an ovum. In other words, sex normally generates offspring. However in man and other primates sexual activity is known to be common during periods of non-fertility, for example in the weeks after the birth of offspring, when high circulating prolactin levels in the mother prevent conception. Sex in primates must be considered a form of communication and pair-bonding as well as a reproductive act. Primate offspring need a prolonged period of post-natal care, and during this childhood stage the caring parent is going to be at a disadvantage when it comes to food gathering or hunting. Survival of the offspring is therefore optimised if the parent as well as the child is supported by one or other members of the tribe, and sex seems to be an effective way of maintaining pairbonding and support from members of the tribe who are not primarily involved in child rearing. However, one of the consequences of primates using sex as a pair bonding mechanism is that populations can grow at alarmingly fast rates if infant mortality is low. The size of primate colonies increases very rapidly when food is plentiful and predators are scarce. However, if food is in short supply, the adults, being generally larger and stronger than the children, will get most of it. This may cause a problem for the survival of the species as a whole, because adult primates (including of course man) can live for long periods after their fertility has declined. We can thus envisage a situation where in periods of food shortage the adults survive and me offspring starve, but then when food resources return the remaining adults are too old to reproduce successfully and the species declines. One might argue that a way around this problem would be for the fertility of the species to decline during food shortages, so that the population down-regulates to a level sustainable at the lower level of food supply. This is indeed how many species adjust to food shortages, but this mechanism, while helpful, is not sufficient in a species like me primates where the adults may survive into a post-fertile old age. If these older adults are competing with the children and the young fertile adults for the available food this reduces the chances of survival for the latter. What is needed in these cases is for the children and young adults to have a built-in ability to survive shortages or injury better than older adults. On the other hand, particularly in the more advanced primate societies, there is an evolutionary advantage to be gained if, when food is plentiful, adult members of the society do survive into old age. The old adults can pass on their accumulated wisdom and experience to the youngsters, and can help with child-rearing, thus enabling the young parents to join in hunting or other food-gathering activities. Is there an age-related increase in human ascorbate requirement? The need for ascorbic acid in the primate diet is demonstrated by the disappearance of ascorbic acid from the body on a diet containing no ascorbic acid, and the appearance of the symptoms of scurvy if this diet is prolonged (6,7). The deficit is believed to be in the conversion of D-glucuronolactone to L-gulonolactone or L-gulonolactone to ascorbate (8,9). However, at least one study (lo), indicates that some human subjects have a residual capacity to synthesise the vitamin. It is also noteworthy that studies attempting to estimate the minimum requirements for the vitamin have often found very large individual differences between subjects. This appears to be true both in animal (11) and human studies (6,7 op. tit). Again this could be explained by some residual biosynthetic ability in certain individuals. If there is a residual biosynthetic ability in some individuals it would appear to decline with age. Fetal tissue has higher ascorbate levels than in the adult (12), and there is a significant level of the ascorbate-synthesising enzyme L-gulonolactone oxidase in embryo guinea-pigs which is absent from adult animals (13). Children of course do suffer from scurvy; indeed, many instances of infantile scurvy occurred in the US in the early part of this century as a result of milk sterilisation procedures (reviewed in (2)). Nevertheless, other things being equal, it appears that children and young adults are more resistant to the effects of a scorbutic diet than older adults (14). Low levels of dietary ascorbate intake may be sufficient to prevent the explicit signs of scurvy, but may be insufficient to protect the older individual from certain degenerative diseases. For example, Parkinson's Disease, which normally occurs only in adult primates, may be correlated with low levels of ascorbic acid in the brain (15). It has been suggested that the microangiopathy associated with diabetes may be due to ascorbate deficiency in diabetes (16). and low levels of plasma ascorbate may be associated with increased risk of atheroma and heart disease (17). Let us suppose that the requirement for ascorbate, not just to prevent scurvy, but to protect against various diseases of ageing, does increase with age. In times of hardship and food shortages the ascorbate intake will go down for all age groups in the population. This low ascorbate intake will selectively increase morbidity and mortality in the older members of the population. This will conserve the food resources for the younger adults and children, and thus enable the population to rebuild itself rapidly when food is again plentiful. A corollary of this argument is that, if ascorbate is indeed a population control factor, one might expect it to have a `permissive' effect on fertility. Specifically, one would expect that with low levels of dietary ascorbate, fertility would be reduced overall in the population, and restricted to the younger adults. When ascorbate is plentiful in the diet, fertility should be greater overall, and in particular it should increase the fertility of the older males and females in the population. Ascorbate is found at a high level in the testes of man and guinea pigs (12, op cit), and in scorbutic guinea pigs inhibition or blockage of spermiogenesis occurs (Kocen et al, cited in (12)). High doses of vitamin C have been shown to restore fertility in infertile men, while moderate (400 mg daily) doses have been reported to induce ovulation in anovulatory women (Harris et al, and Igarashi, both cited in (18)). Why is vitamin C the primate fertility factor? To be an effective way of linking population size to food supply, the hypothetical fertility factor should have certain predictable characteristics. We can argue that it ought to be present in a variety of the normal foodstuffs, so that a shortage in any one food did not unduly affect the population size. One would expect the factor to appear often in the most palatable foods of the normal diet, so that when food was plentiful individuals would not neglect to eat those foods that contained the factor. When food shortages do occur the factor should not cause `all-or-nothing' fatalaties in the affected group; rather, it should have a progressive influence on morbidity and mortality, preferably by increasing the vulnerability of the older members of the affected group to a wide range of threats or diseases. It should also affect fertility, but again in a selective way, reducing mainly the fertility of the older members of the society. Finally, if the food supply is suddenly restored after a shortage, the individuals affected by the absence of the factor should be able to make a full and rapid recovery when its supply is restored. Vitamin C appears to fultil most of these criteria. It is found in a wide range of fruit and vegetables, and to a lesser extent in fresh meat. It occurs in high levels in what are generally regarded as the most palatable foodstuffs, such as fresh fruit. The subtlety of its effect are such that it is still a matter of argument as to what should be the recommended daily intake. Moderate dietary deficiencies of tbe vitamin does not lead to any one deficiency disease but appears to increase the susceptibility of the individual to a wide range of other illnesses. Ascorbate appears to increase fertility in man and guinea pigs. Conclusions If it is true that vitamin C acts as a control factor in primate populations by selectively maintaining health and fertility in older adults, we can make certain predictions about population growth and diet in our present society. Unlike in any previous generation, adults in Western society can now take as much vitamin C as a dietary supplement as they wish or can afford. Lucid arguments have appeared before (19, 20) on why we should supplement our diet in this way, but I do not think the selective need for supplements in the elderly has previously been emphasised. The sales of preparations containing vitamin C suggests that a large proportion of the population does indeed take a daily supplement of this vitamin. If the present model is correct, this will mean that more people will survive into old age than ever before. Moreover, we can expect many of these individuals to be able to take an active part in society for longer than was previously possible. Thus we can expect a shift upwards in the median age of the working population and an increase in the proportion of elderly patients. Whether this is in the best long-term interests of the species is not clear. But at least we can now suggest a reason as to why our species has lost the ability to synthesise such a simple molecule, when its absence from our diet has such devastating effects. References 1. Lind J. A Treatise of the Scurvy. Millar, Edinburgh, 1753. 2. Carpenter K I. The history of Scurvy and Vitamin C. Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, 1988. 3. Bums J J. Ascorbic acid. Chapter 7 in Metabolic Pathways Vol 1 3rd Edn. (D H Greenberg, ed) Academic Press, New York, 1967. 4. Chatterjee I B, Majumder A K. Nandi B K, Subramainian N. Synthesis and some major functions of vitamin C in animals. Ann N Y Acad Sci 258: 24-46, 1975. 5. Stone I. Hypoascorbemia: the genetic disease causing the human requirement for exogenous ascorbic acid. Perspect Biol Med 10: 133-134, 1966. 6. Battley W, Krebs H A, O'Brien J R P Vitamin C Requirement of Human Adults. Medical Research Council Special Report Series no 280. London, H.M.S.O. 1953. 7. Hodges R E, Baker E M, Hood J, Sauberlich H E, March S E. Experimental Scurvy in Man. Am J Clin Nutr 22: 535-548. 8. Bums J J. Peyser P, Moltz A. Missing step in guinea pigs required for the biosynthesis of L-ascorbic acid. Science 124: 11411149, 1956. 9. Chatterjee I B. Kar N C, Ghosh N C, Guha B C. Biosynthesis of L-ascorbic acid: missing steps in animals incapable of synthesising the vitamin. Nature 192: 163-164. 10. Baker E M. Sauberlich H E, Wolfskill S J. Wallace W T, Dean E E. Tracer studies of vitamin C utilisation in man: Metabolism of D-glucuronolactone-6-04, D-glucuronicd- Cl4 acid and L-ascorbic acid-l-Cl4 acid. Proc Sot Exp Biol Med 109: 737-741, 1962. 11. Yew M-L S. Biological variation in ascorbic acid needs. Ann N Y Acad Sci 258: 451-457. 12. Homig D. Distribution of ascorbic acid, metabolites and analogues in man and animals. Ann N Y Acad Sci 258: 103-l 18, 1975. 13. De Fabro S P. Activitie de la gulone-lactone-oxydasechez l'embryon de Cobaye. C R Sot Biol 162: 284-285, 1968. 14. McMiUan R B. Inglis J C. Scurvy: a survey of fifty-three cases. Br Med J ii: 233-236, 1944. 15. Fomstedt B, Carlsson A. Vitamin C deficiency facilitates S-S Cysteinyldopamine formation in guinea pig striatum. J Neurochem 56: 407-414, 1991. 16. Mann Cl V, Newton P The membrane transport of ascorbic acid. Ann N Y Acad Sci 258: 243-252, 1975. 17. Ginter E. Bobek P. The influence of vitamin C on lipid metabolism. ~299 in: Vitamin C (J N Counsell. D H Homig. eds) Academic Science Publishers, London and New Jersey, 1981. 18. Homig D H. Moser U. The safety of high vitamin C intakes in man. ~225 in: Vitamin C (J N Counsell, D H Homig, eds) Academic Science Publishers, London and New Jersey, 1981. 19. Lewin S. Vitamin C: Its molecular biology and Medical Potential. Academic Press, New York, 1976. 20. Pauling L. Evolution and the need for ascorbic acid. Proc Natl Acad Sci USA 67: 1643-1648 (1970). |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 102875 Sweden 01/01/2007 12:50 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 176017 United States 01/01/2007 01:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | My kidney took hard beating from increased C vit intakes 1000 Mgr so I stopped that stuff; I only consume raw lemon juice (in other fruit juices); I believe the kidney problem is real when you use artificial C vit! Quoting: Anonymous Coward 102875That brought back a memory! I thought, while taking lots of Vit. C, that I had a kidney infection because of very uncomfortable pain over the kidney area, so I went to the doctor, who took a specimen. There was NO BACTERIA in the kidney. He told me that massive amounts of Vit. C, such as I was taking, would kill off all bacteria. What was needed in this instance was a chiropractor, not a prescription for antibiotic! |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 176123 United States 01/01/2007 03:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | People need to pay attention to the form of vitamin C they are taking. Cheap vitamin C pills sold in supermarket supplement sections are nothing but ascorbic acid. This is not the full vitamin C complex. This is like eating the peel of an orange, and thinking you've consumed the entire orange. NOT GOOD! In order to attain the full complex, one must take a natural form of vitamin C, such as pure rose hips or acerola powder, or from food. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76420Taking ascorbic acid may be beneficial, but just realize that it is not real vitamin C. Not true. L-ascorbic acid *IS* Vitamin C. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 81359 United States 01/01/2007 03:32 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The following story is true... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 159950I was taking a late night train from NYC to the suburbs recently with my son. We went to the McDonald's in the station and had a meal when a marauder came in to force us to give him out food. Yes, I spent four years in the martial arts, but that was 30 years ago. I stood up to him and he ran out. Then when we entered the train, a group of college kids followed us to where we were sitting. To get to the point, a few usual college things went on, and to quell a possible situation, I decided to take control by hitting a a 20 year old coed. We had a great time. Towards the end of the ride, we talked about how old I was. When I said I was 58, everyone gasped. Most of the kids left the train to change for different destinations, but one young woman remianed with me. When she got to her stop, she chose to go to the next car because the station was very dark and there were several people exiting in the next car. She couldn't get the door to the next car to open and summoned me. I used my martial arts training to open the door. She gasped in disbelief once again. I take 8000 mg of vitamin daily and have done so for ten years. End of story. PS, the 20 year old girl who I hit on (as one of my usual comedy routines) fell for me. And I'm devastated to have to ensure that I don't contact her. (It just wouldn't be right.) |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 160888 United States 01/01/2007 04:00 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 176131 Israel 01/01/2007 04:06 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 174503 United States 01/01/2007 04:11 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 175922 United States 01/01/2007 06:12 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Hey 176030 What form of Vit C do you take? I take plain old ascorbic acid, 1,000 mg tablets. I take them with meals throughout the day to avoid any stomach upset. Off topic, but if you're a woman you might be interested in how I take care of my face (doing this since my early 20s); to further address the anti-aging issue. 1) Never wash my face with soap of any kind. 2) Remove make-up at night with cold cream and a damp washcloth - never Kleenex (has wood fibers) 3) Moisturize with Cetaphil cream (comes in a big vat). I take out half the cream and mix with Rosemary and Lavendar essential oils in a different container. This part is used at night because the ils make it a little greasy. The original Cetaphil is used in the morning under make-up. 4) And probably most inportant, I limit my time in the sun. I NEVER get a tan. I'm fine with being a white person. Thanks dude. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 176030I take 5,000 mg of Vit. C per day. I'm a 45-year-old woman and people who don't know me think I'm in my early thirties. They freak out when they find out I have a 25-year-old son. Vit. C is most important. What form of Vit C do you take? |