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Borderline Personality Disorder

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 862233
United States
01/09/2012 02:32 AM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder
Borderlines were described in college as having no soul. It takes a special kind of psychiatrist to deal with them. They are frightening women to deal with because they are a specific type of sociopath. They are pathological liars, they victimize others- family, friends, lovers, their children and blame others for their faults, then seek revenge. Their personalities are extremely narcissistic always believing they are being victimized because they usually were at one point in early life but then continue to accuse the people who help them. They tend to be sexually overactive to the point of causing themselves and others harm. They are highly manipulative, cunning, and emotionally, psychologically and often even physically violently abusive. They need typically specific targeted psychotherapy and medication for many years, if not a lifetime, and must address their false victimization, abusive behaviors, manipulation, lying and be taught empathy because they have none.
Canadian_lady25

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01/09/2012 02:48 AM

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So, if BPD doesn't stand for bipolar disorder, then why did you use it? Bipolar disorder IS the topic of discussion in this thread.

 Quoting: Anonymous Queen 1486221


No, BPD stands for "borderline personality disorder" and that is the topic of discussion, not bipolar disorder. they're not the same disorder.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 881660
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01/09/2012 03:01 AM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder
An xg/f of mine back in my 20's had it... she could be an angel or the devil. In the span of an afternoon, she'd weep, laugh, fuck me, love me, pull a knife on me, pull a knife on herself, fuck somebody else... It was awesome.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 156099


Yup, that's it. Needless to say, most people with bpd have trouble supporting themselves with legitimate jobs and are therefore dependent on others for their comfortable existence. Their security comes from being able to manipulate the provider into continuing to provide.
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2012 03:01 AM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder
Borderlines were described in college as having no soul. It takes a special kind of psychiatrist to deal with them. They are frightening women to deal with because they are a specific type of sociopath. They are pathological liars, they victimize others- family, friends, lovers, their children and blame others for their faults, then seek revenge. Their personalities are extremely narcissistic always believing they are being victimized because they usually were at one point in early life but then continue to accuse the people who help them. They tend to be sexually overactive to the point of causing themselves and others harm. They are highly manipulative, cunning, and emotionally, psychologically and often even physically violently abusive. They need typically specific targeted psychotherapy and medication for many years, if not a lifetime, and must address their false victimization, abusive behaviors, manipulation, lying and be taught empathy because they have none.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 862233


Not true!
Damn... said I was going to bed... must take melatonin now.... but in the meantime... in my experience (and okay I'm not an expert but) they are NOT sociopaths. They have a conscience; they just don't know how to deal with their pain. They want to have fulfilling human relationships and long to be loved, they just don't know how. Sociopaths don't care. BPDs care deeply and are just crippled. They are so terrified of rejection that they bring it on themselves deliberately and then blame you for it. They begin to arrange for the blows to fall because the blows are less terrible than the anticipation. (At least, that's what I've observed.)

They are emotionally bewildered and psychologically crippled. They are more to be pitied than censured, to paraphrase someone I can't remember right now.

Gaaaaa... it's so hard to write about this and yet I want to. What I saw of my friend's childhood.... Her parents made her that way. Their abuse will echo down through generations. And doubtless they were also abused. I debate this endlessly in my head. I'm pretty sure my former friend is abusing her now teenage daughter emotionally, at least; it's all she ever knew. I don't have any way of knowing for sure and I hope to God I'm wrong. But if she's not she's showing a lot more psychological resilience than I ever saw in her; granted, it's been years.

Some people should just not have kids, period. My friend is one; so were her parents. It's why the world is how it is.
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2012 03:02 AM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder


So, if BPD doesn't stand for bipolar disorder, then why did you use it? Bipolar disorder IS the topic of discussion in this thread.

 Quoting: Anonymous Queen 1486221


No, BPD stands for "borderline personality disorder" and that is the topic of discussion, not bipolar disorder. they're not the same disorder.
 Quoting: Canadian_lady25


True, but I think a lot of people now labeled bipolar would have been called borderline as recently as 10 years ago.
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2012 03:09 AM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder
Borderlines were described in college as having no soul. It takes a special kind of psychiatrist to deal with them. They are frightening women to deal with because they are a specific type of sociopath. They are pathological liars, they victimize others- family, friends, lovers, their children and blame others for their faults, then seek revenge. Their personalities are extremely narcissistic always believing they are being victimized because they usually were at one point in early life but then continue to accuse the people who help them. They tend to be sexually overactive to the point of causing themselves and others harm. They are highly manipulative, cunning, and emotionally, psychologically and often even physically violently abusive. They need typically specific targeted psychotherapy and medication for many years, if not a lifetime, and must address their false victimization, abusive behaviors, manipulation, lying and be taught empathy because they have none.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 862233


They are just as frightening when its a man and there are just as many men as there are women
Steve
User ID: 1629409
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01/09/2012 03:44 AM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder
Ms. one law, you sound like the female version of me...wanna get married?
Patrick Bateman

User ID: 7880223
01/09/2012 03:49 AM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder
I do not know much about BPD, but a family member of mine use to have a severe case of MPD (Multiple Personality Disorder), now DID(Dissociative Identity Disorder) I believe is what its called.

The mind is a very complex thing.
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2012 09:02 PM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder
I used to be diagnosed Bipolar (for a brief while), then it changed to Borderline Personality Disorder with psychotic features. Now I am diagnosed schizophrenic. I am wondering if maybe I had schizophrenia all along, it just took a long time to develop all the symptoms and so thats why I looked so chaotic (typical of BPD's). I also self-harmed alot so I think that may have had alot to do with being diagnosed BPD earlier. I don't have lack of caring or empathy for others, btw. If anything...I care too much. If another person is hurting, it is not unlikely that I might start crying as well. I cry alot if I see hurtfull things happening to others.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1443874
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01/09/2012 10:23 PM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder
BPD was the last diagnosis I was given after 10 years of ruling other disorders out and burning through a slew of psych drugs. Settling on the fact that I had one massively screwed up personality was the proverbial feather on this camel's back. I quit going to doctors and dropped all meds perminantly, after that. The things I learned of therapy treatment for that diagnosis was just silly, imo. Sure, I believed that it could be effective, but you could self-therepy the exact same way if you had the presence of mind to take each situation in life as an opportunity to break your own will and thought process. And that's exactly what I did.

8 yrs later, things are much better. Not perfect, but not "out of control". One nasty side effect was that my mind went through stages; first depression rolled through as I "self-therapyed" my way through issues. It was very difficult to face a reality where I couldn't blame anyone else because, looking back from a renewed mind, we all make mistakes in eachothers lives and we are all truly guilty of some things... but I digress... as the depression began to vanish (lasted a couple of years), I fell into this epic state of social anxieties which lasted forever, it seemed. (I'm actually still shaking the tail ends of it). Accepting the fact that my ways are faulty had kept me in a continual state of second guessing myself and a constant fear of doing the wrong thing. Interacting with others became a steady stream of failure and failure on that scale was a very intimidating thing to face.

My newest victory in this life struggle is an entry into the fish keeping hobby. I truly know nothing of this realm, and in that I am extremely confident. It's amazing to be able to meet people at a fish club and interact from a total noob's perspective just to be met with enthusiasm and welcoming gestures. There has yet to be a nervous moment which wasn't quickly refocused and contained. *knock on wood*
Angel Helper

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01/09/2012 10:29 PM

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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder
After knowing a couple of individuals with this disorder, I am very skittish about having contact with anyone else with it. Both of them lavished me with gifts and attention and vowed I was their idol. Then, without cause, lambsted me publicly as the scum of the earth. Their accusations were totally delusional. If you suffer from this malady here is some information:
People with BPD often have highly unstable patterns of social relationships. While they can develop intense but stormy attachments, their attitudes towards family, friends, and loved ones may suddenly shift from idealization (great admiration and love) to devaluation (intense anger and dislike). Thus, they may form an immediate attachment and idealize the other person, but when a slight separation or conflict occurs, they switch unexpectedly to the other extreme and angrily accuse the other person of not caring for them at all. Even with family members, individuals with BPD are highly sensitive to rejection, reacting with anger and distress to such mild separations as a vacation, a business trip, or a sudden change in plans. These fears of abandonment seem to be related to difficulties feeling emotionally connected to important persons when they are physically absent, leaving the individual with BPD feeling lost and perhaps worthless.
<snip>
Patients often need extensive mental health services, and they account for 20 percent of psychiatric hospitalizations. With help, however, many will improve over time and are eventually able to lead productive lives.
[link to mentalhelp.net]
 Quoting: Skittish 182534


My dad had this, you have explained it perfectly. As a child he would be nice, then in a split second he would get nuts. I got out as soon as I could. He is almost 72 and he is still like that
very miserable person. Has tons of money, yet is not happy with his life. I use to see other people with great relationships with their fathers, and I was soo sad over the fact he was like a hitler to me. I think he hated me.
Live and let live, for we all have our own lessons to learn.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1443874
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01/10/2012 06:00 AM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder
Probably the most common, yet least diagnosed, illness out there.
Pharista

User ID: 7149722
01/10/2012 06:09 AM

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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder
Here is a link to a support forum for those who have loved ones or family members who suffer with a personality disorder. The traits are often co-morbid, for example someone who hits most of the criteria for Bpd will most likely meet some for Npd as well.

The home page of the site [link to outofthefog.net]

100 most common disordered traits [link to www.outofthefog.net]
100 personality disordered behaviours [link to www.outofthefog.net]
Taking back self control from disordered energy thieves [link to www.outofthefog.net]
How to spot a psychopath [link to aftermath-surviving-psychopathy.org]

A brief introduction to 'The Shadow' [link to home.earthlink.net]
Hunting for Power, Toltec Wisdom for Spiritual Warriors [link to 209.85.122.83]
Message from the Kogi [link to www.alunathemovie.com]

Thread: Spiritual Preparedness - simple practices and meditations to increase self-awareness

Thread: The Wetiko Disease - a psychological parasite

Thread: Breaking the chains of the past - facing & healing toxic conditioning & false belief systems

Support for parents of bullied children - [link to epicinschools.blogspot.com]

~ "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller
ThereIsOnlyONElaw

User ID: 1708264
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01/11/2012 12:00 PM

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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder
Ms. one law, you sound like the female version of me...wanna get married?
 Quoting: Steve 1629409


lets. hf
If one scenario is possible so must they all be.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 8615576
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01/11/2012 12:05 PM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder
It is a tough one. In my experience cure is impossible because the patients do not believe they are in the wrong. It is everyone else causing their problems and who are out to get them. They can not, will not see that they need help. Good luck with that one. IMHO it is one of the most difficult.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 149882


Could be that the diagnosis is a catch-all for symptoms not described in all the other fictional categories.

Label it, bill it.
Anonymous Coward
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01/11/2012 12:07 PM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder
It is a tough one. In my experience cure is impossible because the patients do not believe they are in the wrong. It is everyone else causing their problems and who are out to get them. They can not, will not see that they need help. Good luck with that one. IMHO it is one of the most difficult.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 149882


Could be that the diagnosis is a catch-all for symptoms not described in all the other fictional categories.

Label it, bill it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8615576


You've never met a borderline.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 8615576
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01/11/2012 12:15 PM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder
It is a tough one. In my experience cure is impossible because the patients do not believe they are in the wrong. It is everyone else causing their problems and who are out to get them. They can not, will not see that they need help. Good luck with that one. IMHO it is one of the most difficult.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 149882


Could be that the diagnosis is a catch-all for symptoms not described in all the other fictional categories.

Label it, bill it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8615576


You've never met a borderline.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1364770


Not true. Sorry,

Truly scientific approaches in psychiatry only began to emerge after empirical experience with psychopharmacology in the 1950s. Then came neurochemical transmitters to the fore and related hypotheses were finally formulated. Psychology itself, after the ‘dead end’ of a prolonged love affair with behaviourism, latched onto cognitive science—which yet has to really deal with and explain emotions.

The fact is, we are all unique, experiencing life individually, learning from and responding to the results of our choices and from interactions with others. There is nothing about psychiatry or psychology that is based in scientific fact. Its a scam.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1364770
United States
01/11/2012 12:22 PM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder
It is a tough one. In my experience cure is impossible because the patients do not believe they are in the wrong. It is everyone else causing their problems and who are out to get them. They can not, will not see that they need help. Good luck with that one. IMHO it is one of the most difficult.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 149882


Could be that the diagnosis is a catch-all for symptoms not described in all the other fictional categories.

Label it, bill it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8615576


You've never met a borderline.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1364770


Not true. Sorry,

Truly scientific approaches in psychiatry only began to emerge after empirical experience with psychopharmacology in the 1950s. Then came neurochemical transmitters to the fore and related hypotheses were finally formulated. Psychology itself, after the ‘dead end’ of a prolonged love affair with behaviourism, latched onto cognitive science—which yet has to really deal with and explain emotions.

The fact is, we are all unique, experiencing life individually, learning from and responding to the results of our choices and from interactions with others. There is nothing about psychiatry or psychology that is based in scientific fact. Its a scam.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8615576


You've met a borderline?

The history of psychopharmacology isn't relevant here, especially because therapy is seen as more successful treatment than medications, and borderline personality is an observable behavioral pattern with plenty of videos, case studies, interviews etc. out there to show experientially, not faked numbers or whatever. I believe we're all unique but we obviously share commonalities and a cluster of maladaptive ones = disorder. Further, borderline behavior is a natural response if they were raised in an abusive, chaotic or neglectful childhood environment. It sounds more like you have a personal vendetta against behavioral studies. If that's the case your perception is too distorted and I'd rather end the debate now lol.
Anonymous Coward
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01/11/2012 01:22 PM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder
One law my Mother-in-law suffers, I needed to read your words thank you for your bold honesty.



roserose
Anonymous Coward
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01/11/2012 01:53 PM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder
Being involved with a BPD in a serious relationship is not fun. The more you give the more they take, recovery is difficult.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 8615576
United States
01/11/2012 01:53 PM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder
...


Could be that the diagnosis is a catch-all for symptoms not described in all the other fictional categories.

Label it, bill it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8615576


You've never met a borderline.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1364770


Not true. Sorry,

Truly scientific approaches in psychiatry only began to emerge after empirical experience with psychopharmacology in the 1950s. Then came neurochemical transmitters to the fore and related hypotheses were finally formulated. Psychology itself, after the ‘dead end’ of a prolonged love affair with behaviourism, latched onto cognitive science—which yet has to really deal with and explain emotions.

The fact is, we are all unique, experiencing life individually, learning from and responding to the results of our choices and from interactions with others. There is nothing about psychiatry or psychology that is based in scientific fact. Its a scam.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8615576


You've met a borderline?

The history of psychopharmacology isn't relevant here, especially because therapy is seen as more successful treatment than medications, and borderline personality is an observable behavioral pattern with plenty of videos, case studies, interviews etc. out there to show experientially, not faked numbers or whatever. I believe we're all unique but we obviously share commonalities and a cluster of maladaptive ones = disorder. Further, borderline behavior is a natural response if they were raised in an abusive, chaotic or neglectful childhood environment. It sounds more like you have a personal vendetta against behavioral studies. If that's the case your perception is too distorted and I'd rather end the debate now lol.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1364770


BPD therapy is admittedly ineffective. Why? Because it is a catchall designation for "patients" who don't neatly fit into other established (not factual) diagnoses. BPD is also treated with drugs along with therapy. Therapists themselves admit to the difficulty in convincing someone diagnosed with the "illness" that they are suffering from something that the therapist him/herself can't explain, understand or treat. But they will anyway, because billing is where the focus is, not cures.

My perception is as relevant and well rounded as anyone else's no matter how upsetting it may be to you.
R65
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01/11/2012 02:08 PM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder
Borderline personalities are unable to maintain an authentic self. They have fictive personalities and no ethics. They are extreme liars who cause constant chaos. They are psychotic but not killers. They harm people in ways that can't be prosecuted.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 158584


+1
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1364770
United States
01/11/2012 02:24 PM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder
...


You've never met a borderline.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1364770


Not true. Sorry,

Truly scientific approaches in psychiatry only began to emerge after empirical experience with psychopharmacology in the 1950s. Then came neurochemical transmitters to the fore and related hypotheses were finally formulated. Psychology itself, after the ‘dead end’ of a prolonged love affair with behaviourism, latched onto cognitive science—which yet has to really deal with and explain emotions.

The fact is, we are all unique, experiencing life individually, learning from and responding to the results of our choices and from interactions with others. There is nothing about psychiatry or psychology that is based in scientific fact. Its a scam.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8615576


You've met a borderline?

The history of psychopharmacology isn't relevant here, especially because therapy is seen as more successful treatment than medications, and borderline personality is an observable behavioral pattern with plenty of videos, case studies, interviews etc. out there to show experientially, not faked numbers or whatever. I believe we're all unique but we obviously share commonalities and a cluster of maladaptive ones = disorder. Further, borderline behavior is a natural response if they were raised in an abusive, chaotic or neglectful childhood environment. It sounds more like you have a personal vendetta against behavioral studies. If that's the case your perception is too distorted and I'd rather end the debate now lol.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1364770


BPD therapy is admittedly ineffective. Why? Because it is a catchall designation for "patients" who don't neatly fit into other established (not factual) diagnoses. BPD is also treated with drugs along with therapy. Therapists themselves admit to the difficulty in convincing someone diagnosed with the "illness" that they are suffering from something that the therapist him/herself can't explain, understand or treat. But they will anyway, because billing is where the focus is, not cures.

My perception is as relevant and well rounded as anyone else's no matter how upsetting it may be to you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8615576


Not upsetting in the least, hence the lol :) Projecting much?

"BPD therapy is admittedly ineffective" For one there's no such thing as "BPD therapy" in itself, there are different methods. You're just making blanket statements. Would love to see some data to go with those.

Long-term DBT has been successful for BPD but it always comes to down to free will. (www.dbtselfhelp.com has plenty of info ) No, professionals don't have all the answers they do the best they can. Not every practitioner is a syringe-wielding psychopath wanting to medicate people when they don't need it. Plenty of people out there work to understand behavioral patterns and how to help.

Billing is always where the focus is and that's the way the world is right now. There are however grassroots and grant NPO's that work very hard on these things with pure intention. And plenty of places where you don't need a penny in your pocket to get help.

Borderline is trauma-based too keep that in mind, I don't think anyone made up the fact that repeated child abuse = future challenges just so they could bill people.

Curious what exposure/experience has rounded your perception?
Anonymous Coward
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United States
01/11/2012 02:30 PM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder
My Mother has BPD. The book "When Hope Is Not Enough" helped me in dealing with her, but frankly it pisses me off that I'm the one that has to modify my behavior around her when she's the one with the problem.

In 2001, I moved and changed my phone number and broke all contact with her. It was the best 5 years of my life! I eventually got sucked back in though but I'm able to deal with her more effectively now.
Anonymous Coward
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01/11/2012 02:55 PM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder
I'll tell you about my birth mother. May some god bless her poor soul. I had the fortune/misfortune of being under her care for 6 long years, thankfully, not my younger years, when my loving grandmother and great grandmother raised me from birth to the fateful day. But from 11-17 years of age, I lived under the roof a woman who had borne me, but had no discern-able love for me. I watched her closely, and it was clear that she didn't even love herself. I could see that even as a kid. Living with this woman, was like walking on eggshells always. Sometimes, everything was ok, but it didn't take much to set her on a rampage. Coming from a loving environment to this was unsettling, but over time, it became a game. A game of emotional survival, but a game none the less. Sometimes her antics were amusing, sometimes thrilling, always confusing. She seemed to view me as the mistake child, and my sister, as the perfect "golden child" who could do no wrong.

I was a nerd with good grades and a job and had nerd friends, so I never got into much trouble. However, when she couldn't peg me for something, she would go through my things while I was away and read my journal and then go into a rage when I came back home over some personal thing she read there. She would do things like go through my room and throw out favorite perfumes of mine that she didn't like, and act like nothing happened, or casually mention it like saying "I dusted the counters." My younger sister was the one who was screwing at age 14, had a secret abortion, sneaking guys into the house and etc., but all these things were overlooked because she was the perfect manifestation of my sick birth mother's persona, and I was the wrong, the bad, the ugly.

She drove my step-dad to drink himself nearly to death and he looks a shell of a man at middle age now with many health issues. He got away from her soon after I ran away, but not without her sicking him for alimony and child support for my sister, which left him financial ruin. Thanks to this woman, my sister and I have no real relationship, it's been irrevocably damaged I fear. Even though we are adults, my birth mother has a death grip on my sister and I know she puts all kinds of things in her head about me.

My sister has now taken on this "goody two shoes" good girl image and I wonder if that is just a front to cover up how tragic her life really is. It can't be healthy having a woman like my birth mother as a major player in your life, even if you are on her "good" side. I feel sorry for both of them, and I keep my distance...calling only on holidays to say a quick hello and chit chat. Got to keep the convo fluffy, because neither can handle talking about real nitty gritty stuff. In my birth mother's mind, it seems as if she has done no wrong. Now that I am a mother myself, I can't imagine in a billion years treating my children the way she treated me.

To sum it up:

-you feel constantly on guard around them
-you have to walk on eggshells around them; their "favored" ones may have it a bit easier, but it's only because these people have no sense of boundaries and they see their favored people as extensions of themselves

-you are constantly waiting for their next tirade to erupt
-they lack self control
-they may be grown, but are childlike in many ways, the irony is, they may pride themselves on their "independence"

-they lack empathy
-they do not care about how they affect others
-they have dysfunctional relationships with their child(ren)
Chris
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12/19/2012 12:53 PM
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Re: Borderline Personality Disorder
Borderline Personality Disorder isn't nearly as nice as it sounds. Borderline here doesn't mean almost or close. It means Borderline Psychotic. The person you meet isn't the person she is. The person you meet is an illusion. She then fulfills your every whim and supports you like no other. You thank God that such an angel was sent your way. The stories she relates about past experiances with men make you gringe. How could they have treated this godess in such a manner? Once she sucks you into her web you notice small cracks begin to appear. You can't figure out how these stupid little fights even started. Let's just forget it and move on it was nothing. More fights apoligizing for "misunderstandings" you don't know what the problem is. If you say this you'll hear that's just if you don't get it. "Don't get what"? Now you'll hear a litany of wrongs you've done and you figure how could I be so misunderstood? She can change her story around in any situation and make you the bad guy. Anything she does she can justify. Don't try to correct her. She really believes what she says. It's her way of coping and that is why she isn't going to seek help. She believes you stood her up so you could be alone with your ex. She believes she didn't tell your Mother to shut her fat mouth. She would never say nothing like that and when she explains how it all started it was never her fault. You will think you're going nuts. If you manage to get away from her and that is a big if, you will miss her. You really never knew her but you'll miss the person you initially thought she was. That person doens't exist but you will never fully understand that. Run long run hard and don't look back. If you leave her she will attempt to reconnect so she can do it all over again. I'm sure more then one man has stuck a gun in his mouth and pulled the trigger after being with one of these sad troubled women. And now you are one of those bad guys she told you about and she's with someone else telling them of all the horrible things you did. Run run run

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