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Insurgents may have new anti-aircraft weapon

 
antilib
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User ID: 131547
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02/07/2007 10:25 PM
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Insurgents may have new anti-aircraft weapon
· Four helicopters downed in a week, killing 20
· Pilots change tactics to dodge ground fire

Ed Pilkington in New York
Monday February 5, 2007
The Guardian

American military commanders in Iraq have been forced to adopt new security tactics in the wake of a fresh threat from insurgents after it was confirmed that all four US helicopters that have crashed there in the past two weeks were brought down by ground fire.
The crashes raise concerns that insurgents, who have proved highly innovative in warfare, have acquired new weaponry. Twenty Americans, including 16 soldiers and four civilians working for a security company, died in the crashes.

In the deadliest incident 12 soldiers died on January 20 when their Black Hawk came down near Baquba, northeast of Baghdad.

In each case, reports from witnesses suggested that the craft were shot down. Yesterday this was confirmed by Major General William Caldwell, the senior US military spokesman.

"We have had four helicopters shot down ... it appears they were all the result of some kind of ground fire," he said.

"Obviously, based on what we have seen, we are already making adjustments to our tactics and techniques, as to how we employ our helicopters."

Maj Caldwell said the threat went wider than the US military aircraft. Civilian security firms have also become increasingly dependent on the use of helicopters to move and protect employees. Five Americans from the Blackwater USA security firm died when their aircraft was brought down over Baghdad on January 23.

The confirmation that Iraqi insurgents have found a way of increasing their hit rate against helicopters poses US military strategists with a new headache just when they are under pressure to notch up successes under President Bush's so-called surge policy - increasing troop numbers by 21,000 in an attempt to regain the initiative in Baghdad and other key areas of the country.

Toby Dodge, an Iraq expert at Queen Mary's college, University of London, said that as the surge of US personnel gathered pace an increase in casualties from aircraft crashes was almost inevitable. US forces had already been pushed off the roads and into the air by roadside bombs, and as troops are moved around the battle zones in growing numbers they are becoming ever more vulnerable.

"This is the first sign that more American soldiers are being put in the line of fire, and the cost of that, unfortunately, is that these incidents are bound to increase," Mr Dodge said.

Evidence of the vulnerability of troops comes ahead of important Iraq debates on Capitol Hill this week. A resolution put forward by the Republican senator from Virginia, John Warner, would put the Senate on record as opposing the sending of combat reinforcements under the surge.

The US has had difficulty with attacks on its helicopters ever since Apache attack aircraft were deployed over Baghdad during the invasion in 2003, when they were found to be surprisingly vulnerable to ground fire. At the end of 2003 they began flying low and fast in order to avoid missiles launched from the ground, but this leaves them exposed to simple gunfire.

Insurgents use rocket-propelled grenades and anti-aircraft missiles in Iraq, making high flying impossible.

More than 50 helicopters have crashed since the invasion, about half under insurgent attack. Until the past two weeks it was felt that the flying tactics and use of varying routes had reduced the risk.

The most recent incident, last Friday, in which an Apache crashed north of Baghdad killing both its crew members, may be particularly troublesome to US strategists. Local reports suggested that two American aircraft came under fire and one was brought down after the pilot turned back to confront his assailants.

The helicopters had been travelling along a well-used route to the US base in Taji, suggesting that even channels that had previously been considered secure may now be vulnerable.

With the intensification of the American effort focused on Baghdad, tension remained high in the capital yesterday in the aftermath of the single most deadly bomb attack in the country since the start of the war. A suicide truck bomb on a Shia market on Saturday killed 132 people and wounded 302.

Sunni bombers are thought to be escalating their attacks in Shia areas ahead of an anticipated offensive by US and Iraqi forces on their strongholds in the capital. At least 22 other Iraqis died in a round of bombings and shootings in Baghdad yesterday.

Heavy toll:

January 20 Black Hawk downed near Baquba, killing 12 US soldiers.

January 23 Five US civilians die after security firm's helicopter crashes over Baghdad during battle

January 28 Apache with two soldiers downed during battle in Zaraq area

February 2 Apache brought down near Baghdad, killing two US soldiers

___________________


just a little something for you anti americans to celebrate on 5a
In the 60's, people took acid to make the world weird. Now the world is weird and people take Prozac to make it normal.
______________________
"When it comes time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with the fear of death, so when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song, and die like a hero going home"
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2007 10:31 PM
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Re: Insurgents may have new anti-aircraft weapon
there are videos of most of these events, two with rockets, one showing regular small-arms fire to the rotor taking the helicopters down. but let me guess, soon the US will say it's some new rpg supplied by iran.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/08/2007 04:51 PM
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Re: Insurgents may have new anti-aircraft weapon
for a bunch of poor freedom fighters
they seem to be able to get their hands on
a lot of cash,
to be able to get these weapons. $$$$

wonder who funds them?

If its Bush and the Jews
please provide a link.......

don't say it if you can't prove it....
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2007 04:55 PM
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Re: Insurgents may have new anti-aircraft weapon
rpg works fine . no need for anything new . did you not see black hawk down ?????
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2007 04:56 PM
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Re: Insurgents may have new anti-aircraft weapon
soon the US will say it's some new rpg supplied by iran.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 169317


No. It's called Aerial IED, or AIED. It's basically a large bomb with a lot of baloons tied to it. After capturing unexploded AIEDs, the Coalition found "Made in Iran. Ali Baba Factory. 2007" labels on the baloons. AND an Iranian Passport!
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2007 04:57 PM
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Re: Insurgents may have new anti-aircraft weapon
Great news Op! Thanks.
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2007 05:01 PM
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Re: Insurgents may have new anti-aircraft weapon
"Insurgents may have new anti-aircraft weapon"

You don't say! helicopter rocket
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/08/2007 05:03 PM
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Re: Insurgents may have new anti-aircraft weapon
soon the US will say it's some new rpg supplied by iran.


No. It's called Aerial IED, or AIED. It's basically a large bomb with a lot of baloons tied to it. After capturing unexploded AIEDs, the Coalition found "Made in Iran. Ali Baba Factory. 2007" labels on the baloons. AND an Iranian Passport!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 89446



oh boy
everywhere
you go
_Q_

User ID: 192996
Croatia
02/08/2007 05:03 PM
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Re: Insurgents may have new anti-aircraft weapon
for a bunch of poor freedom fighters
they seem to be able to get their hands on
a lot of cash,
to be able to get these weapons. $$$$

wonder who funds them?

If its Bush and the Jews
please provide a link.......

don't say it if you can't prove it....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 131547


well, who is paying americans and israelis in the first place?... I don't need link for that...
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2007 05:06 PM
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Re: Insurgents may have new anti-aircraft weapon
just a little something for you anti americans to celebrate on 5a
 Quoting: antilib


Yeah, baby!

pdance
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2007 05:07 PM
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Re: Insurgents may have new anti-aircraft weapon
It isn't that hard to take a helicopter down.
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2007 05:08 PM
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Re: Insurgents may have new anti-aircraft weapon
oh boy
everywhere
you go
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 131547


say
what
?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 131547
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02/08/2007 05:09 PM
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Re: Insurgents may have new anti-aircraft weapon
for a bunch of poor freedom fighters
they seem to be able to get their hands on
a lot of cash,
to be able to get these weapons. $$$$

wonder who funds them?

If its Bush and the Jews
please provide a link.......

don't say it if you can't prove it....


well, who is paying americans and israelis in the first place?... I don't need link for that...
 Quoting: _Q_



duhhh

I cant believe you said that
NotReallyHuman_
User ID: 190357
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02/08/2007 05:10 PM
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Re: Insurgents may have new anti-aircraft weapon
for a bunch of poor freedom fighters
they seem to be able to get their hands on
a lot of cash,
to be able to get these weapons. $$$$

wonder who funds them?

If its Bush and the Jews
please provide a link.......

don't say it if you can't prove it....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 131547



[link to www.abcnews.go.com]


"The U.S. Federal Reserve sent record payouts of more than $4 billion in cash to Baghdad on giant pallets aboard military planes shortly before the United States gave control back to Iraqis, lawmakers said on Tuesday.

The money, which had been held by the United States, came from Iraqi oil exports, surplus dollars from the U.N.-run oil-for-food program and frozen assets belonging to the ousted Saddam Hussein regime. "


...I'm willing to bet those 'poor freedom fighters' are using surplus cash of their own country...from their natural homegrown product...
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 131547
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02/08/2007 05:15 PM
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Re: Insurgents may have new anti-aircraft weapon
for a bunch of poor freedom fighters
they seem to be able to get their hands on
a lot of cash,
to be able to get these weapons. $$$$

wonder who funds them?

If its Bush and the Jews
please provide a link.......

don't say it if you can't prove it....



[link to www.abcnews.go.com]


"The U.S. Federal Reserve sent record payouts of more than $4 billion in cash to Baghdad on giant pallets aboard military planes shortly before the United States gave control back to Iraqis, lawmakers said on Tuesday.

The money, which had been held by the United States, came from Iraqi oil exports, surplus dollars from the U.N.-run oil-for-food program and frozen assets belonging to the ousted Saddam Hussein regime. "


...I'm willing to bet those 'poor freedom fighters' are using surplus cash of their own country...from their natural homegrown product...
 Quoting: NotReallyHuman_ 190357




laugh
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2007 05:15 PM
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Re: Insurgents may have new anti-aircraft weapon
just a little something for you anti americans to celebrate on 5a


Yeah, baby!

pdance
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 147274



pump2
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 54848
Canada
02/08/2007 05:24 PM
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Re: Insurgents may have new anti-aircraft weapon
for a bunch of poor freedom fighters
they seem to be able to get their hands on
a lot of cash,
to be able to get these weapons. $$$$

wonder who funds them?

If its Bush and the Jews
please provide a link.......

don't say it if you can't prove it....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 131547


The problem is that Iraq and Afghanistan are obsessed with guns in a way that makes Texas look sane. Every boy over the age of twelve can disassemble an AK-47, and owning your own is like a right of passage the same way your own car is in America. Its part of their culture, and a big chunk of the economy too.

[link to www.csmonitor.com]

Oh, and we armed the Afghanis to fight the Soviets at one point. Under Osama and the Fedayeen, they succeeded in defeating the Soviet Union in a long and bloody conflict, but now we're reaping what we sewed...

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
[link to news.bbc.co.uk]

We also sent a great deal of guns to Iraq so they could fight Iran back in the 1980's.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Unfortunately, those AK-47s and RPG launchers last practically forever. Also, Iraq has imported a lot of firepower from Russia, including GPS scramblers:

[link to www.foxnews.com]

And that's just the Fox News and Wikipedia version of what happened! I'm sure conspiracy theorists will have fun with this topic...
NotReallyHuman_
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02/08/2007 05:28 PM
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Re: Insurgents may have new anti-aircraft weapon
..I fail to see the humor in your response to my post 131547..would you care to elaborate?

..I'd like to own an AK-47, best gun ever made. I'm sure I just might need a couple of them....
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/08/2007 05:37 PM
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Re: Insurgents may have new anti-aircraft weapon
..I fail to see the humor in your response to my post 131547..would you care to elaborate?.........
...I'm willing to bet those 'poor freedom fighters' are using surplus cash of their own country...from their natural homegrown product...

---and what country is that?

---are you saying that since the US freeded up that cash, the irqa government is now using it agaibst us?

_________________

..I'd like to own an AK-47, best gun ever made. I'm sure I just might need a couple of them....

Yes possibly the best...I've had a few fired at me myself...
DanG
User ID: 164315
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02/08/2007 05:42 PM
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Re: Insurgents may have new anti-aircraft weapon
It's called Aerial IED, or AIED. It's basically a large bomb with a lot of baloons tied to it. After capturing unexploded AIEDs, the Coalition found "Made in Iran. Ali Baba Factory. 2007" labels on the baloons. AND an Iranian Passport!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 89446


they would find the passports - exploded or not -
remember, passports are indestructible
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/08/2007 05:46 PM
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Re: Insurgents may have new anti-aircraft weapon
It's called Aerial IED, or AIED. It's basically a large bomb with a lot of baloons tied to it. After capturing unexploded AIEDs, the Coalition found "Made in Iran. Ali Baba Factory. 2007" labels on the baloons. AND an Iranian Passport!


they would find the passports - exploded or not -
remember, passports are indestructible
 Quoting: DanG 164315



laugh
another inside nutzjob
NotReallyHuman_
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02/08/2007 05:50 PM
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Re: Insurgents may have new anti-aircraft weapon
---and what country is that?

---are you saying that since the US freed up that cash, the iraqi government is now using it against us?

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 131547



..would you blame them if they did? The US did invade their country and is waging a war with NO MERIT. Just because they couldn't get Osama in Afghanistan, they had to turn tail and go to Iraq? If you think they wouldn't use the cash for their own honor, you're mistaken...and to send pallets of cash only means it was readily available to be used at their own discretion. Their country is in shambles, their honor has been soiled by the same people that claim to be helping them and for what? A stake in their oil because the US can't produce enough of it's own while shunning off alternative fuels? Do you remember the bush administration wanting to drill in Alaska in 2000? Do you remember how it was vehemently rejected by ALL? Now, they finally got an ok to drill up there....and WHY? See through the Bullshit like glass...it's all in the open..Don't think that money was sent to Baghdad for 'humanitarian aid' because many of those people still don't have electricity...Mission Accomplished? BULLSHIT! Lies Lies Lies on top of more Lies...how can you as a human being support such atrocities? ...that was a rhetorical question, I guess much in the same way the Nazi's had supporters, through fear and dominance over the mentally-challenged...

..I provided a link, you were proven wrong....accept it and don't let pride overrule your chance to be a human being.
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2007 06:06 PM
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Re: Insurgents may have new anti-aircraft weapon
Why are security firms working in Iraq having battles in Baghdad using helicopters and heavy weapons?
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2007 06:19 PM
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Re: Insurgents may have new anti-aircraft weapon
The problem is that Iraq and Afghanistan are obsessed with guns in a way that makes Texas look sane. Every boy over the age of twelve can disassemble an AK-47, and owning your own is like a right of passage the same way your own car is in America. Its part of their culture, and a big chunk of the economy too.

[link to www.csmonitor.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 54848


So the ....'problem' is...that the Iraqi people are well armed, well motivated, and able to defend their country from foriegn invasion?

This might be a 'problem' for Lord Bush and his Legionaires, but I kinda doubt if the Iraqis see it that way.

I'd bet that those Iraqis are damm glad they've got the firepower they need to kick some ziostooge ass.

There's a lesson to be learned here, my fellow Americans.

Go buy yourself a good rifle, at least 1,000 rounds of ammunition, and learn how to use it.

Becuase the day is coming when it will be time to liberate our OWN country from foriegn domination.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/08/2007 08:34 PM
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Re: Insurgents may have new anti-aircraft weapon
..I provided a link, you were proven wrong....accept it and don't let pride overrule your chance to be a human being.
 Quoting: NotReallyHuman_ 190357


[link to www.abcnews.go.com]
this was you link
far from proof of what I asked

so you have provin nothin
NotReallyHuman_
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02/08/2007 08:41 PM
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Re: Insurgents may have new anti-aircraft weapon
..I provided a link, you were proven wrong....accept it and don't let pride overrule your chance to be a human being.


[link to www.abcnews.go.com]
this was you link
far from proof of what I asked

so you have provin nothin
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 131547



...did you read the bold text before the last paragraph? Her, let me help you...


"WHERE'S THE MONEY?

Democrats led by Waxman also questioned whether the lack of oversight of $12 billion in Iraqi money that was disbursed by Bremer and the CPA somehow enabled insurgents to get their hands on the funds, possibly through falsifying names on the government payroll."

...The title talks about $4 BILLION, at the end we are given a $12 BILLION figure. Your denial is as asinine as your logic..that's a lot of money unaccounted for..Skipping logic in your quest to be gung-ho is your demise..G'nite!
blackeye
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/08/2007 08:49 PM
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Re: Insurgents may have new anti-aircraft weapon
..I provided a link, you were proven wrong....accept it and don't let pride overrule your chance to be a human being.


[link to www.abcnews.go.com]
this was you link
far from proof of what I asked

so you have provin nothin



...did you read the bold text before the last paragraph? Her, let me help you...


"WHERE'S THE MONEY?

Democrats led by Waxman also questioned whether the lack of oversight of $12 billion in Iraqi money that was disbursed by Bremer and the CPA somehow enabled insurgents to get their hands on the funds, possibly through falsifying names on the government payroll."

...The title talks about $4 BILLION, at the end we are given a $12 BILLION figure. Your denial is as asinine as your logic..that's a lot of money unaccounted for..Skipping logic in your quest to be gung-ho is your demise..G'nite!
blackeye
 Quoting: NotReallyHuman_ 190357



so this is pfoof that now Bush is supplin the money
and that ther is now way in hell it gets stolen.....

(somehow enabled insurgents to get their hands on the funds, possibly through falsifying names on the government payroll.")

so then we should back all the money just so some one doesn't try to steal it....
Hell lets give it to France they would pass it out better chuckle
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2007 08:50 PM
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Re: Insurgents may have new anti-aircraft weapon
BANG! Got Another One! Five US Occupational Helicopters Shot Down This Month!
tomato
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/08/2007 08:51 PM
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Re: Insurgents may have new anti-aircraft weapon
do I need to correct the miss typed words for folks to ubderstand?

I know how most get lost so easily chuckle
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/08/2007 08:52 PM
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Re: Insurgents may have new anti-aircraft weapon
BANG! Got Another One! Five US Occupational Helicopters Shot Down This Month!
tomato
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 163909

yup its so funny
thanks for supportin the terrorist
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 163909
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02/08/2007 08:56 PM
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Re: Insurgents may have new anti-aircraft weapon
BANG! Got Another One! Five US Occupational Helicopters Shot Down This Month!
tomato

yup its so funny
thanks for supportin the terrorist
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 131547


The terrorists are those with the Helicopters in Iraq.

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