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Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?

 
DGN
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Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
"I, even I, have said in my heart with regard to the sons of mankind that the [true] God is going to select them, that they may see that they themselves are beasts. 19 For there is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit, so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for everything is vanity. 20 All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust. 21 Who is there knowing the spirit of the sons of mankind, whether it is ascending upward; and the spirit of the beast, whether it is descending downward to the earth? 22 And I have seen that there is nothing better than that the man should rejoice in his works, for that is his portion; because who will bring him in to look on what is going to be after him?" Ecc3:18
fred also

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03/02/2017 12:12 AM

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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
Expressing confusion hasn't worked for you yet

Ztt-StopPosting1
Anonymous Coward
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03/02/2017 12:14 AM
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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
Even the JW's are right on some issues. In this case, they are correct that the dead are actually dead until the Resurrection.
Anonymous Coward
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03/02/2017 12:18 AM
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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
Even the JW's are right on some issues. In this case, they are correct that the dead are actually dead until the Resurrection.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 57482513


nope
DGN (OP)
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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
Expressing confusion hasn't worked for you yet

Ztt-StopPosting1
 Quoting: fred also


That's knowledge?
DGN (OP)
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03/02/2017 10:28 PM

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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
Even the JW's are right on some issues. In this case, they are correct that the dead are actually dead until the Resurrection.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 57482513


nope
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72134287


So then show me where they are, alive and well in the oblivion? What is their assignment, recounting the atoms in the universe?
:spock
Anonymous Coward
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03/02/2017 10:34 PM
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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
Jesus used the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. C!early the rich man was conscious and aware of his torment and Lazarus was conscious and aware of his joyful surroundings.

Negates two JW doctrines:

1) asleep until the judgement
2) eternal punishment
Anonymous Coward
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03/02/2017 10:41 PM
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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
Jesus used the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. C!early the rich man was conscious and aware of his torment and Lazarus was conscious and aware of his joyful surroundings.

Negates two JW doctrines:

1) asleep until the judgement
2) eternal punishment
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48091609


It doesn't explain the concept that dimensionally you could arrive at the throne of God after dying simultaneously when Abraham Lincoln does.
God is OUTSIDE of the dimension called "Time". You both would feel that you arrived the moment you experienced death, yet both arrive simultaneously.
Time is created by GOD. He doesn't live in it. He is completely outside of it.
He controls it. As it says, God alone knows the end from the beginning.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
Jesus used the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. C!early the rich man was conscious and aware of his torment and Lazarus was conscious and aware of his joyful surroundings.

Negates two JW doctrines:

1) asleep until the judgement
2) eternal punishment
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48091609


It's just a parable.

Now, without looking, tell me who Lazarus is, and his relation to Abraham, in Jewish understanding. In other words, what would the people Yahushua was talking to understand was meant by those names?
Anonymous Coward
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03/02/2017 10:53 PM
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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
HA! You answered your own question with your title.

Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?

Why no, no one is looking down, they died. And yes it is just a fairy tale, every bit of it.
DGN (OP)
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03/02/2017 11:16 PM

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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
Jesus used the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. C!early the rich man was conscious and aware of his torment and Lazarus was conscious and aware of his joyful surroundings.

Negates two JW doctrines:

1) asleep until the judgement
2) eternal punishment
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48091609

Parables are metaphoric not literal
"I, even I, have said in my heart with regard to the sons of mankind that the [true] God is going to select them, that they may see that they themselves are beasts. 19 For there is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit, so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for everything is vanity. 20 All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust. 21 Who is there knowing the spirit of the sons of mankind, whether it is ascending upward; and the spirit of the beast, whether it is descending downward to the earth? 22 And I have seen that there is nothing better than that the man should rejoice in his works, for that is his portion; because who will bring him in to look on what is going to be after him?' Ecc3:18

Last Edited by DGN on 03/02/2017 11:19 PM
Lofty Elim

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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
Revelations11:15
And the 7th Angel sounded...
and there were great voices in heaven saying...
"The Kingdoms of this World are become the Kingdoms of our
Lord and His Christ.
And He shall Reign for ever... and ever."

 Psalm33:3                              Sing unto 'Him' a 'New Song'. Play 'SKILLFULLY' with a 'LOUD NOISE'.  
Anonymous Coward
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03/02/2017 11:39 PM
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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
They can see us but we live in murk and in their frequency
range they cannot see into it clearly, as we think we see
each other.

They are busy learning and teaching. Some in paradise, some in prison.

One thing that is different there are the crowns. Everyone
has a crown delineating their tribe, and level of progression. Also name, but in symbol, not letters as we
know them.

They are white and resemble ivory but are made of something
else.
Anonymous Coward
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03/02/2017 11:49 PM
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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
The bible is clear that no one is in heaven or hell until the judgement day. everyone is sleeping until that point in time.
DGN (OP)
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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
They can see us but we live in murk and in their frequency
range they cannot see into it clearly, as we think we see
each other.

They are busy learning and teaching. Some in paradise, some in prison.

One thing that is different there are the crowns. Everyone
has a crown delineating their tribe, and level of progression. Also name, but in symbol, not letters as we
know them.

They are white and resemble ivory but are made of something
else.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74203362


What are they made of?
DGN (OP)
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03/04/2017 02:10 AM

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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
The bible is clear that no one is in heaven or hell until the judgement day. everyone is sleeping until that point in time.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71944035

The exception is those invited to serve as assistant kings with Jesus, they were resurrected around the time of his heavenly enthronement in 1914
"And I saw thrones, and there were those who sat down on them, and power of judging was given them. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had worshiped neither the wild beast nor its image and who had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years." Rv20:4
Goofy for God
For by Him All Things Were Created

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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
I believe they can see us as sometimes when they come in my dreams it is for a reason.
Job 37:13
He causes it to come,
Whether for correction,
Or for His land,
Or for mercy.(Read all of 37)
Juju
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03/04/2017 07:05 AM
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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
I've seen people who died who were in heaven.Didn't know them personally though.Also seen people who were still alive in heaven.It's weird but I think it might be their spirit.I can't explain it but my experience has me thinking that we are connected in the spirit somehow.
Jesus said that the spirit world is more real then what we live in right now.
DGN (OP)
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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
I believe they can see us as sometimes when they come in my dreams it is for a reason.
 Quoting: Goofy for God


Do you mean they delivered a message like when God sent angels to earth in human form?
DGN (OP)
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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
Why would God bring the dead to heaven, is death a promotion to a better place?
Well...
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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
The bible is clear that no one is in heaven or hell until the judgement day. everyone is sleeping until that point in time.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71944035


This! Dead until Judgement and after it the chance of Life or.. second death to the lake of fire.

There is no automatic judgement like everyone believes.. like going directly to heaven etc. Nah! And NO escape from it. It is forever and ever.. try to accept it now or do whatever you want to do.

The big G gets you like our lungs catch the air. Useless to give (or start) a rebellion.

But like it is written: First the life and then the judgement.
JWP

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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
The "dead" are in fact sleeping. Jesus can awaken and send back into this world [in new body] anyone Jesus wants to send back.

See Hebrews 11:35. I've asked and I'm confidently and expectantly waiting for quite a few to be brought back into this world.
Nameless the Deplorable

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03/05/2017 10:59 PM

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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
I know you won't believe me...but you asked, so I'll tell you:

They are waiting in a very nice place. Think of it as a giant hotel with a beautiful landscaped garden. It's perfect really.

What are they waiting for?

Us.

All of us.

Your loved ones have clocks on their walls...they represent each person they care about still on earth.

And yes, they can watch us. Sometimes they can visit, especially in troubling times.

They aren't really dead...they've only moved to the next level.

This is for good people.


Truly rotten people are a whole other story...I can tell you what that place is like if you'd like to know. I can also tell you that it's kinda empty right now...

--

Last Edited by Nameless the Deplorable on 03/05/2017 11:01 PM
'If you're going through Hell, keep going." -Winston Churchill

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke
Nameless the Deplorable

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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
Why would God bring the dead to heaven, is death a promotion to a better place?
 Quoting: DGN


Better or worse depending on what line you walked on earth.

--
'If you're going through Hell, keep going." -Winston Churchill

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke
strgzr

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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
Even the JW's are right on some issues. In this case, they are correct that the dead are actually dead until the Resurrection.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 57482513


Did god put them on hold? Do they get to listen to music while they wait?
Anonymous Coward
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03/05/2017 11:27 PM
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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
Even the JW's are right on some issues. In this case, they are correct that the dead are actually dead until the Resurrection.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 57482513


Did god put them on hold? Do they get to listen to music while they wait?
 Quoting: strgzr


No, they are dead. They don't do anything. They will be resurrected in the future, but they are dead now.
DGN (OP)
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03/05/2017 11:55 PM

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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
Why would God bring the dead to heaven, is death a promotion to a better place?
 Quoting: DGN


Better or worse depending on what line you walked on earth.

--
 Quoting: Nameless the Deplorable


According to who? Who says the dead are alive?
DGN (OP)
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03/05/2017 11:58 PM

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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
Even the JW's are right on some issues. In this case, they are correct that the dead are actually dead until the Resurrection.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 57482513


Did god put them on hold? Do they get to listen to music while they wait?
 Quoting: strgzr


Are they waiting? Who taught you this thing?
'For as respects whoever is joined to all the living there exists confidence, because a live dog is better off than a dead lion. 5 For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun." Ecc9:4
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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
Why would God bring the dead to heaven, is death a promotion to a better place?
 Quoting: DGN


Of course! That's why it's often called our 'heavenly reward.'
Sure beats staying in the cold grave while the body is rotting away to dust.
DGN (OP)
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03/06/2017 12:13 AM

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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
Why would God bring the dead to heaven, is death a promotion to a better place?
 Quoting: DGN


Of course! That's why it's often called our 'heavenly reward.'
Sure beats staying in the cold grave while the body is rotting away to dust.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 62503269


So what assignment do they receive?
South Central

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03/06/2017 12:31 AM

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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
I know you won't believe me...but you asked, so I'll tell you:

They are waiting in a very nice place. Think of it as a giant hotel with a beautiful landscaped garden. It's perfect really.

What are they waiting for?

Us.

All of us.

Your loved ones have clocks on their walls...they represent each person they care about still on earth.

And yes, they can watch us. Sometimes they can visit, especially in troubling times.

They aren't really dead...they've only moved to the next level.

This is for good people.


Truly rotten people are a whole other story...I can tell you what that place is like if you'd like to know. I can also tell you that it's kinda empty right now...

--
 Quoting: Nameless the Deplorable


Exactly right, Nameles. I have seen proof so many times. It's always the same... except in the rare situation (about 5% or less) where someone feels completely short changed by their death and a new do-over life is more important than reuniting with their loved ones... in which case they just come back and start over as someone else.

Last Edited by South Central on 03/06/2017 12:32 AM


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