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Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?

 
DGN (OP)
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03/17/2017 11:11 AM

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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
Can I wish for what will happen when I die, like you?
 Quoting: strgzr


Uhhh... I thought you were planning on being alive when your dead, like death is a reward and promotion to a better place.
ufo56
Daozen

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03/18/2017 12:03 AM
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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
Nosso Lar is a good flick about the dead in heaven...
DGN (OP)
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03/18/2017 12:43 AM

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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
Nosso Lar is a good flick about the dead in heaven...
 Quoting: Daozen


If the dead go to heaven why weren't they there to begin with like angels?
strgzr

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United States
03/18/2017 12:47 AM
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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
Can I wish for what will happen when I die, like you?
 Quoting: strgzr


Uhhh... I thought you were planning on being alive when your dead, like death is a reward and promotion to a better place.
ufo56
 Quoting: DGN


A better place? As in more beautiful than earth? I donít think thatís possible. A better place as in one that isnít all screwed up? Yeah that I do believe.

As far as it being a promotion, I donít think so. To my mind itís like returning to the place that we really reside.
DGN (OP)
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03/18/2017 01:10 AM

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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
Can I wish for what will happen when I die, like you?
 Quoting: strgzr


Uhhh... I thought you were planning on being alive when your dead, like death is a reward and promotion to a better place.
ufo56
 Quoting: DGN


A better place? As in more beautiful than earth? I donít think thatís possible. A better place as in one that isnít all screwed up? Yeah that I do believe.

As far as it being a promotion, I donít think so. To my mind itís like returning to the place that we really reside.
 Quoting: strgzr


Very good
"No more will there come to be a suckling a few days old from that place, neither an old man that does not fulfill his days; for one will die as a mere boy, although a hundred years of age; and as for the sinner, although a hundred years of age he will have evil called down upon him. 21 And they will certainly build houses and have occupancy; and they will certainly plant vineyards and eat [their] fruitage. 22 They will not build and someone else have occupancy; they will not plant and someone else do the eating. For like the days of a tree will the days of my people be; and the work of their own hands my chosen ones will use to the full. 23 They will not toil for nothing, nor will they bring to birth for disturbance; because they are the offspring made up of the blessed ones of Jehovah, and their descendants with them. 24 And it will actually occur that before they call out I myself shall answer; while they are yet speaking, I myself shall hear.
25 ďThe wolf and the lamb themselves will feed as one, and the lion will eat straw just like the bull; and as for the serpent, his food will be dust. They will do no harm nor cause any ruin in all my holy mountain,Ē Jehovah has said." Isa65:20
strgzr

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03/19/2017 08:47 PM
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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
Can I wish for what will happen when I die, like you?
 Quoting: strgzr


Uhhh... I thought you were planning on being alive when your dead, like death is a reward and promotion to a better place.
ufo56
 Quoting: DGN


A better place? As in more beautiful than earth? I donít think thatís possible. A better place as in one that isnít all screwed up? Yeah that I do believe.

As far as it being a promotion, I donít think so. To my mind itís like returning to the place that we really reside.
 Quoting: strgzr



DGN (OP)
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03/20/2017 05:32 PM

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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
If the dead are really alive, why did they die in the first place?
Anonymous Coward
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03/20/2017 07:00 PM
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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
I've always been religious and grew up hearing and believing that when you die you either ...

A) Go to Heaven

or...

B) Go to Hell

But NOW since last year, I keep seeing this stuff about when you die, you go into some sort of sleep.

What!?

Didn't Jesus tell the thief that he'd been in paradise with him?

Doesn't that suggest aware, conscious, doing stuff and not asleep?

The whole idea of dying and going into some soul sleep freaks me out!
DGN (OP)
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03/20/2017 07:22 PM

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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
I've always been religious and grew up hearing and believing that when you die you either ...

A) Go to Heaven

or...

B) Go to Hell

But NOW since last year, I keep seeing this stuff about when you die, you go into some sort of sleep.

What!?

Didn't Jesus tell the thief that he'd been in paradise with him?

Doesn't that suggest aware, conscious, doing stuff and not asleep?

The whole idea of dying and going into some soul sleep freaks me out!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 63102095

Jesus didn't say "today you will be with me in paradise", he said "truly I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise". The coma placement was a translation typo. Jesus didn't return to heaven for 40 days.
"To these also by many positive proofs he showed himself alive after he had suffered, being seen by them throughout forty days and telling the things about the kingdom of God" Ac1:3 Only qualified disciples specifically invited go to heaven to serve as assistant kings with Jesus.
"And I saw thrones, and there were those who sat down on them, and power of judging was given them. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had worshiped neither the wild beast nor its image and who had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years." Rv20
strgzr

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03/20/2017 07:40 PM
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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
If the dead are really alive, why did they die in the first place?
 Quoting: DGN


My question is why would anyone choose to be incarnated into this world? Whatís the upside to experiencing the downside of human existence?

Last Edited by strgzr on 03/20/2017 10:59 PM
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 63102095
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03/20/2017 08:15 PM
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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
Ok ... so as a Christian, even if you die, the idea of it is scary as heck!

I mean, where are you?

Where is your soul?

Who has access to it?

What if you dream nightmares?!

What if your soul sleep is some thing wherre you are tomrmented by the bad things you did on earth?
DGN (OP)
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03/21/2017 11:06 AM

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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
Ok ... so as a Christian, even if you die, the idea of it is scary as heck!

I mean, where are you?

Where is your soul?

Who has access to it?

What if you dream nightmares?!

What if your soul sleep is some thing wherre you are tomrmented by the bad things you did on earth?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 63102095


No worries that requires being alive.
"For as respects whoever is joined to all the living there exists confidence, because a live dog is better off than a dead lion. 5 For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun." Ecc9;4
Anonymous Coward
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03/21/2017 11:45 AM
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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
If you see the past, youre back where you started.


Memories. Reincarnation fuel. Have fun cycling through hells layers
DGN (OP)
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03/26/2017 12:46 PM

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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
If you see the past, youre back where you started.


Memories. Reincarnation fuel. Have fun cycling through hells layers
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73131030


Reincarnation, a theory with zero evidence, it just promotes the oldest trick in the book;
"Now the serpent proved to be the most cautious of all the wild beasts of the field that Jehovah God had made. So it began to say to the woman: ďIs it really so that God said YOU must not eat from every tree of the garden?Ē 2 At this the woman said to the serpent: ďOf the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat. 3 But as for [eating] of the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ĎYOU must not eat from it, no, YOU must not touch it that YOU do not die.íĒ 4 At this the serpent said to the woman: ďYOU positively will not die. 5 For God knows that in the very day of YOUR eating from it YOUR eyes are bound to be opened and YOU are bound to be like God, KNOWING good and bad.Ē Ge3:5
Anonymous Coward
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03/26/2017 12:57 PM
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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
Jesus used the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. C!early the rich man was conscious and aware of his torment and Lazarus was conscious and aware of his joyful surroundings.

Negates two JW doctrines:

1) asleep until the judgement
2) eternal punishment
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48091609


It doesn't explain the concept that dimensionally you could arrive at the throne of God after dying simultaneously when Abraham Lincoln does.
God is OUTSIDE of the dimension called "Time". You both would feel that you arrived the moment you experienced death, yet both arrive simultaneously.
Time is created by GOD. He doesn't live in it. He is completely outside of it.
He controls it. As it says, God alone knows the end from the beginning.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70110094


Yep. A lot of people try to put God into a box...and they interpret things from inside that box. Big error.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 54993320
United States
03/26/2017 01:00 PM
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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
I've always been religious and grew up hearing and believing that when you die you either ...

A) Go to Heaven

or...

B) Go to Hell

But NOW since last year, I keep seeing this stuff about when you die, you go into some sort of sleep.

What!?

Didn't Jesus tell the thief that he'd been in paradise with him?

Doesn't that suggest aware, conscious, doing stuff and not asleep?

The whole idea of dying and going into some soul sleep freaks me out!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 63102095


If you die and wake up in heaven tomorrow.

If you die and wake up in heaven 4.7 billion years from now.

How would you know the difference? To you, you would die and then immediately wake up. The intervening time would not even exist for you.
DGN (OP)
Revelation in real time

User ID: 74539660
United States
03/26/2017 01:17 PM

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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
Jesus used the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. C!early the rich man was conscious and aware of his torment and Lazarus was conscious and aware of his joyful surroundings.

Negates two JW doctrines:

1) asleep until the judgement
2) eternal punishment
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48091609


It doesn't explain the concept that dimensionally you could arrive at the throne of God after dying simultaneously when Abraham Lincoln does.
God is OUTSIDE of the dimension called "Time". You both would feel that you arrived the moment you experienced death, yet both arrive simultaneously.
Time is created by GOD. He doesn't live in it. He is completely outside of it.
He controls it. As it says, God alone knows the end from the beginning.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70110094


Yep. A lot of people try to put God into a box...and they interpret things from inside that box. Big error.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 54993320


This is where the dead arrive
"I, even I, have said in my heart with regard to the sons of mankind that the [true] God is going to select them, that they may see that they themselves are beasts. 19 For there is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit, so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for everything is vanity. 20 All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust. 21 Who is there knowing the spirit of the sons of mankind, whether it is ascending upward; and the spirit of the beast, whether it is descending downward to the earth? 22 And I have seen that there is nothing better than that the man should rejoice in his works, for that is his portion; because who will bring him in to look on what is going to be after him?' Ecc3;18
DGN (OP)
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03/30/2017 08:57 PM

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Re: Are the dead spying down on us from heaven or is that just a 'pass the plate' fairytale like angels playing harps?
I've always been religious and grew up hearing and believing that when you die you either ...

A) Go to Heaven

or...

B) Go to Hell

But NOW since last year, I keep seeing this stuff about when you die, you go into some sort of sleep.

What!?

Didn't Jesus tell the thief that he'd been in paradise with him?

Doesn't that suggest aware, conscious, doing stuff and not asleep?

The whole idea of dying and going into some soul sleep freaks me out!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 63102095


If you die and wake up in heaven tomorrow.

If you die and wake up in heaven 4.7 billion years from now.

How would you know the difference? To you, you would die and then immediately wake up. The intervening time would not even exist for you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 54993320


has anyone not invited ever woke up in heaven?


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