Latter Rain, which is the FIRE BAPTISM!

I am always encouraged and inspired by your witness of God's grace

We have had many exchanges regarding God's purposes and will, in the past couple of years and I remember how opposed I was to complete redemption of all things through Christ, as you began our discussions by sharing with me of what you understood regarding grace. I have always had in my foundational understanding by the Spirit, that God's grace was unmerited towards me, and knew I was forever sealed, yet deep down there was that judgmental spirit that was denying the ultimate power of Christ over all things (despite the fact that I had come under His power and was given witness of His infinite strength). It has been through our many exchanges that God has used you to assist in revealing to me, more depths regarding His grace mystery, and also to shake some faulty doctrinal foundations that had become cemented in my beliefs.

The witness I have been given that I testified to earlier was certainly not what i was seeking after, I was merely seeking some spiritual support through prayer as I was urged to go forward by the Spirit. And like I said, the word I received was for me to understand I am weak and that I needed to rely on God's strength that He was showing me. For years I considered that no more could be understood from this revelation.

That is until we began our exchanges.

I have begun to see a brighter light shining and reflecting a deeper purpose in Christ and Him crucified, and the ultimate authority and victory that Christ has indeed over all things. I know there is no one who can continually resist God's will. all that is necessary, is to be brought into His presence.

I am now sorting out many things and I certainly don't want to get cemented in anything that isn't of Christ's foundation, so I only speak of these for conversation sake as well, and am not out to try and persuade towards what I am considering.

Concerning the human will, there is an aspect to it that I have become aware of( even though I do not fully understand), and that is how deeply it is embedded in our carnal and physical nature. It cannot be known how our will has so much innate control in us, until we are challenged will to will against God, and we completly surrender. When all that is on the table between us and God is our wills clashing, we are shown supernaturally the evidence of substance to our will. The will is truly a spiritual attribute we possess, be it God's will or man's, and it is only by the Spirit putting our will under His, that we can see the evidence of our innate will. Intellectually we know the will exists, as it can be understood to a degree by the fruit displayed in our lives, but the actual hold our will has over us is very much a mystery to us. This is something that most christians or even non christians don't ponder very deeply or are really that concerned with, and even when we are concerned with doing God's will, we activate and bring to life our own will to determine or judge what is God's will. It is all very deceptive underneath the surface, and in my testimony I spoke of being completely removed from any influence of sin or negativety. It was only through my comparison of the sinfree Spiritual state of utopia and peace that I felt in God's presence, after surrendering my inner resistance(will), that I even became aware of the machinations of our human will. Prior to this, I was seeking the Lord with all my heart, via exercising my own will.

Now that I see this, how am I any different than the one who has not known Christ and is unaware of the human will that drives them away from God. The first thing that popped into my mindful will when God overshadowed me at that time, and when i fell into great fear, was, "depart from me Lord, I am undone". It wasn't until I realized that there was no where I could escape to, that I began to come to the place of inner surrender and was released into God's love.

On the surface it would seem as though I had made agreement and peace with God by my testimony, and in some ways i sense this also to be so. However, it wasn't like it was "His way or the highway" concerning God's will for me at that time. No, it was strictly, 'His way" concerning God's will, there was no alternative route or highway I could take if I didn't like it. And there certainly is no looking back when we are encompassed by God's love, His love complete's us in everyway that is lacking, so there is no enticement to seek after what may be lacking, nor could that concern that something is lacking, even enter His kingdom realm.

All this being said, I can fully relate to reconciliation of all things in heaven and earth and under the earth.

His victory is greater than we can know right now.

hey thats something that happened on the 19th... I mean it lasted until the 19th (BIG GRIN)

Yes.

The other day I had a thought, you know how the Lord gives you a thought and then you ask Him about it? I asked Him, so, You're gonna level the playing field? And His answer was, YES.

This kind of event will do just that. The people who are ready, have to be strong in the Lord for everyone else. To keep folks calm. The miracle working power of God will be flowing through His people - thats not just who we call christians now, either, but many many people who are His NOW, and will be one with Him when it happens. So, all our judging of each other can drop now... I think thats what these nine days of preparation are all about. Stop the bickering and start building up each other's faith that God will help us through this.

Someone on GLP already mentioned that this will put an end to the PTB's plans. People have called it a bold move in consciousness, and OPPORTUNITY for consciousness to evolve. so they can side up with God too. Its all good. Lightworkers want to ascend, so they are on the right track. Others wana make it, but might have a slightly weaker faith, so we can build up their calm and quiet assurance that they WILL make it, during these 9 days of preparation.

lets help the nervous nellies.

there should be more leaks! there has to be more leaks, if this is true... so be on the lookout for posts at other places you hang out. LIke that one someone posted about the FIVE satellites launched on saturday 2/17/07 to measure ELECTRO-MAGNETISM??

lets keep an eye for when SOHO comes back online.. spaceweather.com, and the egg, and the baskets. lemme see.. what else. watch the internet radio shows, God is bound to have someone go off and spill for us, or a prophet come on and speak the truth boldly.

wow.. God is awesome and perfect!

someone needs to get a good site with THE WARNING prophecy, and post some of it... that might tie in... the three days of darkness

PSALM 91 is totally CRUCIAL! I have been standing on PSALM 91 since 2005 when I had an IRC room by that name and a Bible bot.

We need to pray for our christian brethren who have internet radio shows, cuz they are way off base! I suspect the carnal mind has detoured them... they need intercessory prayer BIG TIME! Because they have HUGE audiences they need to WARN.

we have a lot to do! and little time to get it done, to help our fellow human beings.

WE GOTTA BEAR SOME FRUIT HERE BOY!

Glory, Glory, Glory

Priscilla Van Sutphin

California USA







Feb 15th, 2007

Scribe:

www.upstreamca.org

[email protected]



Luke 2:9-10, 13-14 NKJV And behold, an angel of the Lord stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were greatly afraid. 10 Then the angel said to them,” Do not be afraid, for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy which will be to all people….13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying: 14 "Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace, goodwill toward men!"



2 Cor 3:18 NKJV But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord , are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.



Ps 24:9-10 Lift up your heads, O you gates! Lift up, you everlasting doors! And the King of glory shall come in. 10 Who is this King of glory ? The LORD of hosts, He is the King of glory .Selah NKJV



The Lord spoke “ Glory, Glory, Glory !”

“ The church right now has more story than glory but that will soon change. I am not a man that I should lie, nor a son of man that I should change My mind. I AM striving with My church to transform her into MY CONCEPT of what she should be, and many are going through transformations right now. Lines are being drawn in the sand. I am bolstering MY intimate education and leading you into new areas and I will continue to prod, and pry, and smolder, and conform you into the bride I want to perfect. I AM FAITHFUL and TRUE, and there is nothing I won’t do that I have spoken to you !



Hold on for the ride is getting FASTER, and the changes will be even more transforming as I stoke the fires and kindle the ovens of revival in your hearts. For I am faithful and JUST to do all that is in My heart to make you more like ME. My bride will not be in spotted material, nor grubby clothing. She will come forth like gold from Ophir. She is not going to be full of dirt and unbelief. Doubt has no place in My Kingdom. I am perfecting YOUR FAITH beloveds and removing all FEAR for those who are willing, even for some who have been unwilling, knowing the decision they would make in the end.



Come away with ME beloveds and do not believe the lies and taunts of the enemy that is trying to steal your HOPE. DECLARE MY PROMISES and EXALT MY NAME in the heavenlies and watch MY GLORY FALL. As I AM LIFTED UP INSTEAD OF MAN, I WILL draw all men unto MYSELF. WAVES of MERCY are coming, WAVES in the natural are coming to some shores, and WAVES of MY FIRE will break down every door of opposition.

It is MY mercy that I should judge, for my judgments are TRUE. MY judgments alter the hearts and lives of people to tear down the idols in their hearts.



For IDOLATRY has filled the land instead of glory. One judgment did nothing to alter the lives of many, many still went on in their worldly ways, and continued in their lust and perversion. I will REMOVE all the complacency in this nation. I have heard the cries of the children alone and hurting. I have heard the cries of the homeless and wounded. I have heard the cries of My intercessors and I will do what is best for this nation of idolators. I WILL BLOW on MY GARDEN, and it’s spices will come forth. I am PRUNING. I AM BLOWING, and I am GROWING faith that is immovable and true. Those who choose the broad path will find it is treacherous and futile.



Death is not easy, but necessary to glory. I did not call you to spend a life of EASE and COMFORT while others starve and are broken & abandoned. My call is to bring LIFE where there is death, and LIGHT where there is darkness. MY GLORY is transforming you, even when you think nothing is happening. SPEND YOURSELVES ON ME, and YOU WILL SEE FRUIT that ripens in the VINE and that never dissipates as you continue in close abiding relationship with ME. But if you choose the easy way, and resist My presence. Then you surely will be on your own till you bend to ME, and cry out for ME. There have been cool winds that have caused damage to crops. The north winds are like that. They are cold, and they test the fire in you. It will test your faithfulness under pressure.



KNOW that I see all, and hear all, and will continue to BLOW till all the chaff is dealt with beloveds. PRAY and CRY OUT ! Worship and DECLARE ! For I AM WITH YOU. I AM IN YOU. I AM YOUR EXCEEDINGLY GREAT REWARD and I WILL NOT DISAPPOINT YOU.

Glory will spill out into the highways and byways. I will be your rear guard as you give to ME your time, your life. Guard your heart against the enemy of your soul. KEEP in MY WORD.

MY WORD IS LIFE TO YOUR SOUL. Do not allow it to be stolen. BELIEVE and DECREE IT. Anticipate CHANGES that will bring glory to MY NAME. I am in the business of doing miracles and you will see more and more as My glory fills your hearts.”



Ex 16:6-8 And in the morning you shall see the glory of the LORD; for He hears your complaints against the LORD. But what are we, that you complain against us?" NKJV



Ex 16:10 Now it came to pass, as Aaron spoke to the whole congregation of the children of Israel, that they looked toward the wilderness, and behold, the glory of the LORD appeared in the cloud. NKJV



Ex 24:16-18 Now the glory of the LORD rested on Mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days. And on the seventh day He called to Moses out of the midst of the cloud. 17 The sight of the glory of the LORD was like a consuming fire on the top of the mountain in the eyes of the children of Israel. 18 So Moses went into the midst of the cloud and went up into the mountain. And Moses was on the mountain forty days and forty nights. NKJV



Ex 29:43-44 And there I will meet with the children of Israel, and the tabernacle shall be sanctified by My glory . 44 So I will consecrate the tabernacle of meeting and the altar. I will also consecrate both Aaron and his sons to minister to Me as priests. NKJV



Ex 33:17-18 So the LORD said to Moses,"I will also do this thing that you have spoken; for you have found grace in My sight, and I know you by name." 18 And he said, "Please, show me Your glory ." NKJV



Ex 33:19-23 Then He said, "I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion." 20 But He said, "You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live." 21 And the LORD said, "Here is a place by Me, and you shall stand on the rock. 22 So it shall be, while My glory passes by, that I will put you in the cleft of the rock, and will cover you with My hand while I pass by. 23 Then I will take away My hand, and you shall see My back; but My face shall not be seen." NKJV



Ex 40:34-36 The Cloud and the Glory (Ex 13:21,22; Num 9:15-23)

Then the cloud covered the tabernacle of meeting, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle. 35 And Moses was not able to enter the tabernacle of meeting, because the cloud rested above it, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle. NKJV



Lev 9:6 Then Moses said, "This is the thing which the LORD commanded you to do, and the glory of the LORD will appear to you."NKJV



Lev 9:22-24 And Moses and Aaron went into the tabernacle of meeting, and came out and blessed the people. Then the glory of the LORD appeared to all the people, 24 and fire came out from before the LORD and consumed the burnt offering and the fat on the altar. When all the people saw it, they shouted and fell on their faces. NKJV



Num 14:20-21 but truly, as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD —

NKJV

Num 16:19-21 And Korah gathered all the congregation against them at the door of the tabernacle of meeting. Then the glory of the LORD appeared to all the congregation.

20 And the LORD spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying, 21 "Separate yourselves from among this congregation, that I may consume them in a moment." NKJV



Num 16:42 Now it happened, when the congregation had gathered against Moses and Aaron, that they turned toward the tabernacle of meeting; and suddenly the cloud covered it, and the glory of the LORD appeared. NKJV



Num 20:5-6 So Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly to the door of the tabernacle of meeting, and they fell on their faces. And the glory of the LORD appeared to them. NKJV



Deut 5:24 And you said: 'Surely the LORD our God has shown us His glory and His greatness, and we have heard His voice from the midst of the fire. We have seen this day that God speaks with man; yet he still lives. NKJV



1 Kings 8:11 so that the priests could not continue ministering because of the cloud; for the glory of the LORD filled the house of the LORD. NKJV



1 Chron 16:24-30 Declare His glory among the nations, His wonders among all peoples.

25 For the LORD is great and greatly to be praised; He is also to be feared above all gods.

26 For all the gods of the peoples are idols, But the LORD made the heavens. 27 Honor and majesty are before Him; Strength and gladness are in His place. 28 Give to the LORD, O families of the peoples, Give to the LORD glory and strength. 29 Give to the LORD the glory due His name; Bring an offering, and come before Him. Oh, worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness! 30 Tremble before Him, all the earth. The world also is firmly established, it shall not be moved. NKJV



1 Chron 29:11 Yours, O LORD, is the greatness, The power and the glory , The victory and the majesty; For all that is in heaven and in earth is Yours; Yours is the kingdom, O LORD,

And You are exalted as head over all. NKJV



2 Chron 5:14 so that the priests could not continue ministering because of the cloud; for the glory of the LORD filled the house of God. NKJV



2 Chron 7:1-3 NKJV Solomon Dedicates the Temple (1 Kings 8:62-66)

When Solomon had finished praying, fire came down from heaven and consumed the burnt offering and the sacrifices; and the glory of the LORD filled the temple. 2 And the priests could not enter the house of the LORD, because the glory of the LORD had filled the LORD's house. 3 When all the children of Israel saw how the fire came down, and the glory of the LORD on the temple, they bowed their faces to the ground on the pavement, and worshiped and praised the LORD, saying: "For He is good, For His mercy endures forever."

Ok I am freaking out now, just so you know

Mark Phillip Sanger
02/18/07

Kretos - Dominion

Mark Phillip Sanger





You WILL have Dominion over ALL devils ALL sickness, ALL diseases and plagues. As you pass through the veil of your flesh and come rest at MY side. This Kingdom Kretos Gospel will be preached and then the end will come. I AM coming now says the Lord, with GREAT power, world shattering power, DOMINION..!



I AM coming with Old Covenant Prophet Elijah Power combined with The Power of the double Pentecost Rain, The FIRE and The Glory. This New Wine is MY very best I have saved it for last to show forth MY GLORY..!!.



The Old Wine skins will burst in this hour. This mighty plow of FIRE and GLORY will plow through the Kingdoms of this world to prepare the nations for My appearing. This plowing will allow my Kingdom to come in men's hearts.



This Holy, Holy, Holy one two punch will also displace and dislodge stubborn unchallenged principalities powers and rulers of darkness, WE WILL FORCE them to flee.!!



This is coming NOW, FOR THIS REASON I CAME TO DESTROY ALL THE WORKS OF THE devil, FOREVER..!!



IT IS TIME, all of the promises are yours, they have always been your's even from the foundation of the world, They are My wedding gift to you, beware of vanity and idols. Follow Me and you will always stay on course, I alone know the way every day. This is going to be fun..!!!



This Blessing is to them that endure to the end.!



Mark Phillip Sanger

these are too long to post, but they are good to read

[link to www.injesus.com]

Greetings again all


Illumi-Bunny

Quote…

Sorry, coward, but that ain't AT ALL what the OP posted about. End quote.
-------------------------------------------

Dear soul….apparently you do not understand what is being revealed and spoken here, but that’s ok. These “forums” can be a mess at times….besides….does one “think” they get brownie buttons from God for knowledge and understanding in such things? Who gave you the understanding to begin with?

You can debate the subject at hand all you wish …I don’t do debates….waste of time actually and not helpful for the most part for all concerned….


Listen….

You all know what’s coming, in some way or another…prepare your hearts and be at peace.


Our Love to you all

The Cherished One

From: Soon you will hear the thunder of My Justice.
[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]

Anonymous Coward
User ID: 197961
2/19/2007 12:23 PM

Message from Jesus to the Littlest of His Servants Feb.15, 2007


From the Littlest of His Servants Feb. 15, 2007

To My children: Soon you will hear the thunder of My Justice. The thunder once it begins will continue for hours. It is the Thunder of My Justice. Some will die from the fright of knowing what is come upon them.

This Thunder will be heard around the world. No one will escape it. For I AM is announcing to you (the people of the world) that the Time of My Justice has arrived. The hour glass has run out. There is no more time.

Pray for the graces to withstand what is so very soon to come upon you. For I tell you many will die from the effects of My Judgment. Each person will find themselves before Me in judgment. Every person will then know immediately their eternal destination. Home with Me (heaven) or the fires of Hell, where there is eternal darkness and gnashing of teeth.

Some will die from this judgment. It will be too much for their heart. For I announce to you that I AM is coming with My flaming sword in hand to open all hearts to expose all that comes from the heart so that all may see how they have been serving Love.

For some the pain will be too much and their heart will completely break causing their death. This is My final warning to My people so that they might prepare themselves. For what is to come you cannot even begin to comprehend.

The time is gone. Now My Justice must come and My Justice is perfect. I AM will come and it is near.

Can you not hear my approaching footsteps (natural disasters). Can you not hear My Distress (Catholic Church in ruins**).

For if you cannot then you are as deaf as the Pharisees were. I sent out prophet after prophet to warn you but you preferred to persecute and slander them rather than listen to them. You preferred the world and all it's materialism. Now you will stand in judgment. You will stand naked and alone before Me with only your sins to cover you. You will be shaking with fear seeking consolation but none will be given. Instead you will feel the sting of My Justice. You will feel My Anger. You will feel My Wrath. Who is it that can withstand it?

Pray my faithful for the strength to endure. Pray for your brothers and sisters who are blind to Me. Pray as My Mother has been pleading with you to do. She is the greatest gift given to this generation. For I tell you had I not sent Her to awaken you for this Great Event no one would be left standing. Prepare My people for your JESUS is coming as KING of JUSTICE. That justice is perfect. (I could feel that Jesus was speaking as King with great authority and majesty.) Your King Your Savior Your God Is coming! JESUS **Ruins: Falling or tumbling down to destroy or to impair its effectiveness.

and

Hi Me114

i'm not judging the prophetic words you share

but

In regards to prophetic words that are given concerning the Lord's return, Is there anything new under the sun.

I'm not against prophetic words, if they indeed thunder my spirit, but in the past 30 years of hearing these same words over and over, I can only say that only truly once I have born witness that a prophetic word peirced into my heart, as from God. And that paticular word was not about a time factor regarding His return, but some of the events that would be happenning in the worls at the time.

And I could fully agree that these events that were spoken are being in fulfilled at this time.

But can a prophecy suggesting the immediate return of Christ be from God if this is not fulfilled within a certain immediate time frame, or would God give a prophecy such as a warning that He was about to sound His trumpet and then 20 years go by and nothing happenned. I don't think so.

I have always rejected every prophecy that suggests the return of Christ is being announced as being a sudden event that our eyes will see.

Has not every christian for the past 2,000 years considered that they would be the generation that would see the coming of the Lord.

In my opinion false prophecies that are heard by the unbeliever, will only encourage the unbeliever in doubt, and do more harm to nullify faith in Christ than anything else out there.

False prophecies are destructive to the kingdom of God.

And really what is the fruit to be gained, There is no such thing as true repentance when a person is merely fleeing the wrath to come. John the baptist rebuked those who came to be baptised because they wanted to secure tere acceptance to God. The fear of wrath the Pharisees had does not produce repentance, so of what use is a prophecy concerning God's wrath concerning repentance in an unbeliever. And what use is a prophecy concerning Christ's immediate return to a believer?

I just don't see any good fruit to come out of these present day prophetic warnings that are supposed to be from God.

I like the word from Scott Wallis for 2007.
[link to www.scottwallis.org]
[link to www.gottalife.org]
Gottalife Radio is really good too!They even have a schedule so you can see whats coming up for a week in advance.

If this word from Scott ministers to you then that is good, but to me it is the same mundane words that have been repeated over and over with nothing ever displayed as truly being fulfilled.

I could never understand why God would need to announce His coming manifestations?

Why would He not just do what He is going to do and shock the hell out of everyone, instead of reading the riot act.

Now God has indeed said that He would send Elijah, but for what purpose, it certainly isn't to warn us to flee from the wrath to come. John the baptist never warned anyone to flee from the coming wrath, in fact he asked the Pharisees who had warned them.

I see the purpose of prophetic words to have one purpose mainly, and that is to turn hearts towards God in true repentance, and not by fear of wrath.

the bible says god does nothing except he first reveils it to his prophets.you just dont know the word or have spirtual discernment.

Can you show me this scripture passage you are referring to?

Many believe The Latter Rain was poured out in the early 1900s as highlighted in the Azusa Street Revival and all the other hundreds of spontaneous conversion revivals that occured all around the USA.

Jesus stipulates many times, and in many ways, that only the Very Elect will not suffer deception.

Who are The Very Elect, The Remnant etc? They are those who gave up their lives to gain HIS Life. Born-Agains who Abide With HIM and The Father. Those in whom The Holy Spirit Dwells and Witnesses.


Jesus Witnesses to John in Revelation 3 about the Laodicean Church, the final church age. That so many, (maybe most) are LukeWarm and will be spewn from HIS Mouth.


God can Do Anything HE desires. HE will shorten the days (lest all flesh be destroyed), HE can surely manifest The Holy Spirit upon any persons HE would choose.

Yet, consider when Jesus made HIS Ascension, HE Directed the 700+ persons there witnessing HIS Ascension to "go and wait in the upper room for The Comforter". How many were there when The Holy Spirit came? About 144. Where was everybody else? They must've had something more important to do!

Only those who Know HIM Personally and Directly will not be deceived. Anyone who has Surrendered their life Unto The Father will have been In-HIS Presence. They KNOW. It is The Holy Spirit who Guides and Leads us, not men, pastors, ministers or witnesses.

Jesus Christ IS Coming!!!
Prepare ye the way of The Lord!!!
Maranatha!!!

If the THE WARNING comes true, each human will experience the judgment seat, and afterward, possibly still be alive on earth, with an opportunity to convert and bear fruit. If a person saw a warning, then, while IN their judgment, the Holy Spirit can remind them of the warning they saw, and they might repent, instead of having a heart attack and die on the spot. If they had not seen a warning, then whatever they had heard, the Holy Spirit could remind them, but maybe those reminders are not enough to draw out the repentance, and instead the person HARDENS their heart even more, and after the judgment, become more of a God hater than they were before.

You would have to read up more on the warning to consider the various ramifications.

I cant see ANY reason not to preach the gospel or not to preach the truth at any time, to other people.

In addition, God's prophets, MUST prophesy - they also desire to obey God, so when He gives them utterance, they desire to speak it out and share it. If it falls on deaf ears, that is the responsibility of the hearer, not the prophet.

So, I disagree with your arguments. Spreading the truth, the gospel, and God's prophecies are of benefit to souls.

Amo 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets

I have to apologize, but I can not take the time, today, to work with you on the issues that you raised. It is just too late. You can search GLP for elijah in thread SUBJECTS going back to 2006 and read my posts by Me114 or user id 71005 and see all the reasons why God is coming Himself as Elijah, with scripture citations. You will have to do the work, if you want it.

God DOES use fear of wrath to turn hearts to Him; that is all in the bible.

Noah moved with fear and prepared the ark for the saving of his household, is one example.

I believe your task is to prepare yourself like Noah did - search your heart asking God is there anything, anything, amiss. Any correction You want to make Lord? Ask Him.

Of course I agree in this Me114.

I think you missed the point of my post regarding discerning so-called prophetic words.

The scripture you gave is from the OT, which is merely a shadow of the New T.

What do you make of this passage in the NT.

Matthew 11
12 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing, and forceful men lay hold of it.

13 For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John.

14 And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come.

Luke 16:16
"The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it.


I'll be back later.

Hey! POINT BLANK!

DO YOU CARE ABOUT THE OTHER PEOPLE!? OR NOT?!


______________________________________

Let me elaborate on something that many of us may NOT have considered.

Let us say that The Warning happens. After it is over, each person will have had his own unique judgment experience with God. Each person will know where they stand with God.

Now look at this: Each person will be faced with a decision to believe by faith that the experience that they had was with God Almighty!

faith....

Free will is still upheld, because people can choose to believe it was really God and act accordingly and still by their choice, or they can convince themselves that it was aliens, men with project blue beam technology, satan, the antichrist, or their ancient ancestors, or whatever...

This WARNING is an act of Mercy on God's part. To give every human a head's up on their status with Him, and then let them go, to decide what they will do next.

________________________________________________

So, maybe you believe you are part of the elect and all set, and KNOW. And maybe you make it sound like to me, that you dont care about what happens to anyone else. But in this WARNING, you TOO will stand before God, elect or not, and you will have an opportunity to DECIDE whether it was really God or not. And if this event happens and is not according to how YOU believe God would do things, then that belief is a stumbling block in your belief system, and this test will PROVE YOU.

My suggestion to you, is to come down off your high horse, and help everyone prepare for what God is doing.

I mean this sincerely.

God bless us, one and all.

We believers in Christ Jesus NEED to review this Parable in light of the events that we are considering might be soon upon us.

First, the key to consider are the following verses:



I guess, if you are interested, you will have to read the surrounding verses. I would caution any believer not to point out that he/she is not a glutton or a drinker as an easy way to excuse themselves from the lesson of this parable.

The point is, you are a servant of Christ, and the question is, are you beating other servants of Christ who are trying to prepare people for the coming of the Lord?

Are you telling the prophets and other servants blowing the trumpets, sounding alarms, and crying from watchmen towers, that they are WRONG?

This parable says the Lord will come when you are not expecting (cause you were not listening to Him, or His servants that you persecuted, but instead listened to your own carnal mind), and the Lord will give you the SAME REWARD AS AN UNBELIEVER.

And if you read more in the other verses there, you will get a huge BEATING (stripes).

Also, please see the parable about the fellow who hired people all day long and gave the SAME WAGES to the people he hired last, as those he hired first.

the people he hired LAST, are the people we are alerting right now, the ones you should be helping us alert, and they get the SAME GOOD REWARD FROM GOD, as those of us who studied for decades, served for years, consider ourselves the elect, or whatever...

check your hearts, believers, and see if your heart is lining up with God's heart, IN THIS HOUR! ASK HIM to check, with you.

Do not let the carnal mind deceive you. Stop thinking you are so smart. Humble yourself and ASK GOD to CHECK YOU, ONE MORE TIME. Surely, if you love God as you say you do, you can ask HIM if there is anything He would like you to do?

BY the Way, we are supposed to be resting from OUR works, and allowing God to do HIS WORKS through us. I suggest we all ask Him about that.

Thanks for the thoughts. I can't resist giving one more reply, though I don't think I want to hijack Me114's thread and turn it into a discussion about free will. And of course, like any concept we might entertain, this one of determinism versus free will has been debated deeply and endlessly by theologians and philosophers.

Like I said in an earlier post, alot of it comes down to definitions and semantics -- I'm actually starting to agree with Me114 that what some call their "will" is just the influence of their old nature, including the physical body and brain. Traits, tendencies, conditionings, and habits are deeply embedded in the brain. Some even say that there is even a cellular, genetic memory stored in our bodies -- even a collective type of memory or force. Such theories could certainly dovetail with scripture regarding our inherited nature.

Sin is a force or power that drives the natural man -- he is not "choosing" to sin so much as he is compelled to sin. Such a will is not free. In Romans 7:8, sin -- not personal will -- is pictured as a force that produces covetous desire. In verse 11, Paul said sin "deceived" him. Verse 14 -- "a slave to sin." Being a slave to sin is not the same as "willing" to sin, even though the person may think that it is his own free will exercising its perogative or choice. Verse 17: "it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me." Verse 23 refers to the "law of sin" at work in the body, making him a prisoner. If this can be true in a converted man -- how much more in an unconverted one! And verse 25 -- "So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin."

This struggle described in Romans chapters 7 and 8 pictures the converted man pulled by two opposing forces. The solution is given in Chapter 8, and again I don't see "free will" as having much to do with it. The solution is that the power of the Divine Will comes in and CONTROLS the situation via the Spirit. Verse 9: "You, however, are CONTROLLED not by the sinful nature BUT BY THE SPIRIT, if the Spirit of God lives in you." That's the NIV rendering. The picture in Romans 8 is of the POWER of the Spirit coming in and taking control. Verse 2: " And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death" (New Living trans.)

I agree that somehow there has to be a "will" in there by which one chooses to yield to one force or the other. So it must be that at regeneration man's will is also released and reformed. But again ... how "free" is it? Does not scripture say that it is God who works in us both to WILL, and to do, His good pleasure? Can man's newly reformed will be "clinically" separated from the Spirit and the Christ-life that now lives in him, as if it were something of His own?

I'm going to get lazy now and copy/paste an article that echoes these thoughts -- but I'll put it in a separate post.

Does Man Have a Free Will?
by Michael Gowens

[link to www.sovgrace.net]

===========================================================


"The carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." Romans 8:7

Man, created in God’s image, possesses a mind, a heart, and a will. The mind, or intellect, allows him to think rationally, not by sheer instinct like an animal. The heart, or emotion, enables him to feel, unlike a robot or machine, human experience. The will, or volition, enables him to make decisions and choices that have moral consequences. It is his capacity for action, a capacity that allows him to choose this over that and those instead of these.

In his unfallen state, man was good and very good. The fall, however, affected every part of man’s being. Man’s mind, by virtue of his fallen nature was darkened, incapable of understanding the things of the Spirit of God (Ephesians 4:18; 1 Corinthians 2:14). Further, his emotions are now deceptive and untrustworthy (Jeremiah 17:9) and his will, that is, his ability to choose good over evil and right over wrong, is bound. The 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith reads,

"Man, by his fall into a state of sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation, so as a natural man, being altogether averse from that good, and dead in sin, is not able by his own strength to commit himself, or to prepare himself thereto."

So, is man free? If by the word "free" one means that people have the ability to make certain choices on their own (i.e. free from compulsion, force, or coercion), then the answer is "yes." For example, people have the ability to choose to go to the store or stay home, to buy a newspaper or not, to eat beef or to eat fish, etc.; such choices are within the natural capacity of human beings. People are free to act according to their nature.

If by the word "free", however, one means free without any limitation, then the answer is "no." People are not free to act contrary to their nature. I cannot choose to fly. Yes, I can choose to travel by airplane, but I cannot choose to sprout wings or become a bird. My will, you see, is not entirely free. It is bound by the limits of my nature. We do not have the freedom to be anything we are not.

Man, in other words, is not free to act outside the boundaries of his human nature. He cannot live the life of a fish in the ocean or fly like a bird in the air without external resources enabling him to duplicate his natural environment. Just as that is true on a natural level, it is also true on a spiritual level. In his fallen state, man cannot choose to be righteous. The Ethiopian cannot by his own sheer willpower, change the color of his skin, nor the leopard his spots. Neither can those whose nature is depraved voluntarily do good (Jeremiah 13:23). Man’s will is enslaved to his sinful nature. Left to himself, his only capacity is fleshly.

Unregenerate people are not free to choose righteousness or wickedness; they are, on the contrary, "free from righteousness" (Romans 6:20). By nature, man’s will is a "will not" (Psalm 10:4; Psalm 58:3; John 5:40, Isaiah 26:10). His only inclination is toward carnality. The natural man will never choose anything but sin, because he cannot operate outside the parameters of his sinful nature (Romans 8:7). The nature of man’s will is not free.

Not until his nature is changed does he have the desire or the capacity to choose righteousness. Prior to God’s work of regeneration in the soul, therefore, man’s will is bound by the old nature. In regeneration, the fallen sinner is made "willing in the day of God’s power" (Psalm 110:3). He is given a new nature, a righteous nature, capable of responding to God. Because the old nature is not eradicated, however, a warfare between the Spirit and the flesh ensues (Romans 7) - requiring deliberate and decisive efforts of the will for righteousness (Romans 6:11-23). In other words, the believer must choose, every day, between the options of serving sin or righteousness (Joshua 24:15; Romans 6:13). With such a conflict facing us, we should be glad that the Holy Spirit will continue to work within us "both to will and to do His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

Because man’s will, apart from the new nature given in the new birth, is bound, it is incapable of choosing eternal life. Man’s only hope of eternal life, then, is rooted in God’s initiative and choice. Salvation, in other words, depends on God’s choice, not mine, and upon His sovereign will, not man’s fallen will (John 1:13; Romans 9:16; Ephesians 1:5,11; Hebrews 10:10). That, my friend, is a firm foundation!

testing if the img command works

nevermind...

I agree with you Lester! 100%.

Everyone knows my words, and they are always the same. Stay focused on the Lord. Do not listen to anyone but the Lord.
blessings to all

I think you are totally onto something here. Most pew-sitting Christians never get to this point in their lives (I suspect) but it's where we need to be.

Does a human vessel ever fully "know" God? Is God finite, that we may "know" Him absolutely? Are there degrees of knowing? Is the babe in Christ at the same level of knowing as the mature saint? Define this "knowing." Is it cut and dried/black and white/either-or?

What about concepts such as GROWING in grace and knowledge? (2 Peter 3:18)

What about a concept such as that expressed in Proverbs 4:18: "The path of the righteous is like the first gleam of dawn, shining ever brighter till the full light of day ..."

Or 2 Peter 1:19:
"Because of that experience, we have even greater confidence in the message proclaimed by the prophets. You must pay close attention to what they wrote, for their words are like a lamp shining in a dark place—until the Day dawns, and Christ the Morning Star shines in your hearts."

These passages indicate an ongoing process, not just a static black or white or totally fulfilled condition.

What about Paul's statement that he wanted to KNOW Christ ever more fully and deeply? Phil. 3:8-12:
"Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; that I may KNOW Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on ..."

Ephesians 4:13
"...until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ ..."

A new life does not instantaneously appear in full-blown maturity. It is a process which starts with conception and grows from there ...

okay

:)

this is a CONDITIONAL statement
14 And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come.

they were NOT willing to accept it, so the Kingdom was not established, manifestly, on earth, back THEN.

John did not do all the things the prophets said Elijah would do.


The violence, in obtaining the kingdom, is casting down the vain imaginations of the carnal mind. separating (it hurts) the real you from the carnal mind's influence, allowing the Holy Spirit to burn off the world's lies through conviction and repentance (turning away from thinking like the carnal mind). it is violent.

You have to really want it and be willing to sacrifice your worldly wisdom to allow God to teach you His truth. You have to really want to HEAR God's Voice, because you WANT to ask Him, His view, on everything you experience in life, instead of living based on YOUR OWN views. that is violence against your own wisdom, views, and those of the carnal mind trying to deceive you.

you force your self to separate from the world

its very violent, and it hurts
you LOVE THE TRUTH, so you want truth, even if when received, the truth cuts you to the heart to get the lies out of you

like, christopher columbus being more a murderer of natives than a hero of founding this country. small example. but it hurts to cut out lies

my reply on free will in man, crashed twice.. I dunno if I can get it posted