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The Myth of Survivalism
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Coldwarkid
User ID: 89855
2/22/2007 4:35 PM
Report abusive post | The Myth of Survivalism
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After having lived the life of a survivalist for over 10 years (i.e. off the grid, raising my own food, securing my own water, bartering), I have come to the conclusion that those that prescribe to the notion of surviving a major economic or social collapse are completely misguided.
Those places that have ungone major social, political, or economic upheavals in the past decade such as the former Yugoslavia, Soviet Union, Iraq, Sudan, etc. lost between 30 and 50% of their population.
Those that survived, lived a subsistance lifestyle. They actually fared better than most in the US will under similar circumstances, because we have become accustom to such a high standard of living for 60 years.
Stocking up on goods will only prolong the suffering. Unless you have a means of production, you will only last as long as your reserves.
Even those that live on homesteads, still need outside sources of energy (diesel, gas, propane, wood, coal.) The knowlege necessary to survive like our great, great grandparents did has disappeared.
The neo-survival movement, such as those in Idaho, will be fighting over limited and hard to extract resources. Because most survivalist are very independent, they will find it hard to cooperate which will be the essential key in going through the hard times that will probably last for at least 20 or more years.
I have walked the walk and this is the inconvenient conclusion I have drawn. I now believe the only way to survive what is likely to come is to form some type of intentional communities.
From most of the responses I have received when I have mentioned this idea have been negative, so the outcome I forsee is a massive dieoff. What exactly will precipitate it or when it will happen, I have no idea but my sense is that it will be within the next 24 months at the outside.
The glibness that dominates the majority in the mainstream or even here on GLP is a sure sentiment indicator that what I envision is inevitable.
CWK |
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Evil Twin  
Senior Forum Moderator
User ID: 8925
2/22/2007 4:39 PM
 | | Re: The Myth of Survivalism | Quote |
It takes a village.
To visualize the coming apocalypse, imagine, if you will, Oprah & Rosie O'Donnell wrestling for the last rib at an all-you can-eat Bar-B-Q... |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 74049
2/22/2007 4:43 PM | | Re: The Myth of Survivalism | Quote |
Stocking up on goods will only prolong the suffering. Unless you have a means of production, you will only last as long as your reserves.
So save yourself some misery, and just kill yourself at the first sign of strife...
 |
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Evil Twin
Senior Forum Moderator
User ID: 8925
2/22/2007 4:46 PM
| | Re: The Myth of Survivalism | Quote |
LOL, perhaps CWK is trying to convince everyone not to compete for his resources.
To visualize the coming apocalypse, imagine, if you will, Oprah & Rosie O'Donnell wrestling for the last rib at an all-you can-eat Bar-B-Q... |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 28083
2/22/2007 4:47 PM | | Re: The Myth of Survivalism | Quote |
Absolute garbage. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20060
2/22/2007 4:47 PM | | Re: The Myth of Survivalism | Quote |
I think the OP is right on.
Massive die off due to lack of Food and Medicine. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 83027
2/22/2007 4:50 PM | | Re: The Myth of Survivalism | Quote |
op is right. |
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4by2
Forum Moderator
User ID: 101239
2/22/2007 4:50 PM
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Go underground and eat worms!!
Works for me!!!
:mole: |
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9net
User ID: 199297
2/22/2007 4:53 PM | | Re: The Myth of Survivalism | Quote |
We grown to be fragile. |
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malu
User ID: 196378
2/22/2007 4:54 PM
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survival is more of a mindset than having things, if so many people die off, there will be lots of things laying around for the picking
always wanted to drive my truck through a walmart window and just load up... gotta have dreams *grin*
knowledge, self confidence, and good health,, along with a solid network of friends and family is key
When peaceful revolution becomes impossible, violent revolution becomes inevitable.
"Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I am attacking." |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 199461
2/22/2007 4:56 PM | | Re: The Myth of Survivalism | Quote |
"Unless you have a means of production."
don't know most people who don't have a stock supply of their own seeds/rabbits/goats/chickens/sheep/etc that they will need to survive (this means male and female of strong stock for all the above). to try to "survive" without it is sheer stupidity. people should look to live rather than just survive also...two different words with different meanings.
crapola on the not being able to live like generations past. not all will be able to and that's...their decision. so yes...many would probably not survive...let alone live. but...don't say no one would know how to live like past generations.
live simply so that others may simply live and you'll have a better idea what living really is. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 199461
2/22/2007 4:59 PM | | Re: The Myth of Survivalism | Quote |
survival is more of a mindset than having things, if so many people die off, there will be lots of things laying around for the picking
always wanted to drive my truck through a walmart window and just load up... gotta have dreams *grin*
knowledge, self confidence, and good health,, along with a solid network of friends and family is key Quoting: malu
malu...shhhhhh. ya don't wanna get in trouble ya know. you're correct about it all though...however...get a different dream. (thanks so for the laugh) |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 199461
2/22/2007 5:00 PM | | Re: The Myth of Survivalism | Quote |
and malu...if you ever decide to follow that dream...(laughing so hard i can hardly type)...make sure there's gas in the truck first. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 199461
2/22/2007 5:01 PM | | Re: The Myth of Survivalism | Quote |
best make it your bike so you don't run short on gas.
(picturing malu racing on his bike...hands full of "stuffs") |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 199461
2/22/2007 5:02 PM | | Re: The Myth of Survivalism | Quote |
and...make sure you aren't still in your towel...*wave to your cousin* |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 199461
2/22/2007 5:04 PM | | Re: The Myth of Survivalism | Quote |
but seriously...*ahem*
knowledge is powerful. there have been so many threads on glp (a very good one malu had) on how to prepare...how to think ahead...how would you not only survive...but live...if something should happen (say a winter storm)...what would you eat? drink? wear? heat? cool? garden? etc.
plan in advance and you'll do fine. |
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ºEATº
User ID: 198878
2/22/2007 5:06 PM
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Cold War Kid are you any relation to the Ketchup Kid?
I fully intend to survive with a massive stash of Pringle potato chips, thank you very much.
100 pushups every day |
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malu
User ID: 196378
2/22/2007 5:07 PM
| | Re: The Myth of Survivalism | Quote |
and...make sure you aren't still in your towel...*wave to your cousin* Quoting: Anonymous Coward 199461
if i wave my towel drops! that was a dilemna,,,, one hand had to hold the gun....
ok,,, i will pick a differnt dream,,, cosco
When peaceful revolution becomes impossible, violent revolution becomes inevitable.
"Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I am attacking." |
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Coldwarkid
User ID: 89855 (OP)
2/22/2007 6:23 PM | | Re: The Myth of Survivalism | Quote |
The replies to my post prove a point. Out of 17 only 3 or 4 were constructive. The rest, I am not sure why they even bothered to post a reply because they amounted to nothing but mindless drivel.
It is apparent that very few on GLP have ever known deprivaton, much less real suffering. It is clear that most Americans live in an illusion, that post WWII life will go on forever and that all the modern conveniences we have, we take for granted.
Having had relatives from NOLA, few are back on their feet. Friends and acquaintences coming back from Iraq are changed people. I lived through the Texas S&L crisis and saw a 70% vacancy rate in downtown. In some areas of town, commerical real estate were boarded up and under the Resolution Trust Corporation. 1 out of 3 Houstonians filed for bankrupcy. There were tent cities with as many as 7,000 people homeless in many areas.
With easy credit, a stock market based on speculaton, people quitting traditional jobs to day trade or flip properties is a recipe for disaster. I believe we are in the early stages of what is likely to reduce the US to 2nd or 3rd world status.
When the days of easy money comes to an end, or more likely the dollar collapses and you cannot buy anything because the currency has no value, the veneer of cockyness will wear off quickly and people will get religion.
It is not going to be an asteroid, galactive wave, global warming, bird flu, a dirty bomb, or any of the other scenarios that all of the 24 addicts. What is coming, Jack Bauer will not be able to stop.
It has already started, and the main barometer of anxiety in the circles of the "big boys" is the price of gold which is about to explode as the dollar collapses.
Few of you remember the Maryland Banking crises of the late 80s when you could only take out about 750 dollars from your accounts. With the amount of debt Americans are carrying today, any type of currency controls will turn the USD into nothing but a token.
At one point I thought a blowout of the economy would be survivable with enough resources, but after ready what happened in Yugoslavia where neighors were pitted against neighbors I had to rethink everything I had previously believed.
CWK |
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Green Man
User ID: 108824
2/22/2007 7:02 PM | | Re: The Myth of Survivalism | Quote |
The replies to my post prove a point. Out of 17 only 3 or 4 were constructive. The rest, I am not sure why they even bothered to post a reply because they amounted to nothing but mindless drivel. Quoting: Coldwarkid 89855
Howdy, CWK!
You have come to the right place for mindless drivel. This place seems to go in cycles, but the level of discourse here seems to have dropped lately.
This is not really a doomer site. It is a recreational doomer site. Hum-de-dum Gloom Doom We're All Gonna Die Yadda Yadda Brittney's Shaved Head Bush Sucks Bush is God God Sucks Should I Have Sex With My Cousin I'm an ExtraTerrestrial...
Lotsa chat-bratting too, though there's nothing wrong with that in moderation.
Survivalism, as you are using the term, is event-based. You have a year's supply of food, hide out until the EVENT passes by, and then you step out and rejoin what passes for society.
A friend of mine decided to stock up a bit and asked me about the year's supply thing. I told him not to bother. I can't think of any scenario in which food supplies are disrupted for more than a very few weeks and then things return to any sort of normality. Have a month's supply of food, or have 5 year's supply to tide you over until you can learn to be a subsistence farmer.
FWIW, my own take on things in the future for the US is:
1. Economic problems, starting this year, basically any time now. I would be surprised if the DOW is above 10,000 at the end of the year. It might be **much** lower. I'm not sure how fast all of this will play out. Housing bubble, credit bubble, derivatives, value of the dollar, recession, deflation (or hyper-inflation, take your pick). All coming to a theater near you.
2. Natural Gas shortages in North America. We seem to have reached the cliff in NG production. Canada is cutting back a bit this year because of low prices. We have had very favorable weather for the last 14 months or so. It won't last. If we have a hot summer, and a significant hurricane season, we'll have low inventories going into winter. A tough winter and there will be shortages by spring 2008. Continued good weather in 2007 might push it off for one more year. Shortages will manifect themselves at first as electric grid brownouts/blackouts as NG-fired generating plants shut down. Once the grid starts to go, it is all downhill. Google "olduvai theory" if you haven't already.
3. Recession will destroy some demand for oil, not as much as people like to think. It actually takes a lot of recession to have much impact. There are almost no new oil projects scheduled to come on line after 2010, and if they were going to happen they would have had to start by now. We should start seeing the impacts of dropping oil production starting 2011 at the latest - four years from now. This is another situation that will just keep getting worse.
4. Beyond that is climate change. We really have no idea of how soon, how bad this will be. In the worst case, this is an "oh fuck it" scenario like global nuclear war. A prolonged drought here would be enough to ruin my plans. It drove out the Anasazi, it might drive me out too.
The next five years will utterly transform America (and much of the rest of the world). |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 189524
2/22/2007 7:09 PM | | Re: The Myth of Survivalism | Quote |
I think the OP is right on the money. Sounds like this person knows what they are talking about....
The reason I believe the poster, is simply the fact that I too have stored up food, supplies, etc... One simply can't make it alone for a VERY long time...
The times have changed since the pioneer days. Many more people, better weapons, omnipotent government, etc...ad infinitum....
If it takes a village, the SOB's who started this mess would drop a fuel/air bomb on each and every one of them....
I'm angry, but I don't know who to be angry with. Yes, we have scumbags that have sold us out in our congress, white house, etc., but who is REALLY to blame?
When the OP said supplies only prolonged suffering, he/she might be right.
On the other hand is the human survival instinct. It boils down to your philosophy...If you believe you'll be with the creator in heaven, why bother with all the preperations? |
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Evil Twin
Senior Forum Moderator
User ID: 102035
2/22/2007 7:30 PM
| | Re: The Myth of Survivalism | Quote |
"The replies to my post prove a point. Out of 17 only 3 or 4 were constructive. The rest, I am not sure why they even bothered to post a reply because they amounted to nothing but mindless drivel."
What do you want when you come here and tell us, "it's hopeless"?
I've spent the majority of my adult life, more than 15 years, learning all those old world survival skills that you claim are lost. I've lived in the Rocky Mountains in a tipi for nearly a year, hunting and foraging to feed myself. I have a garden, and livestock, and good neighbors with whom I've discussed 'neighborhood security tactics'. We have enough firewood and timber to last our little group for our foreseeable lifetimes.
Sorry if I'm not willing to admit that it's all pointless.
To visualize the coming apocalypse, imagine, if you will, Oprah & Rosie O'Donnell wrestling for the last rib at an all-you can-eat Bar-B-Q... |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 199461
2/22/2007 8:19 PM | | Re: The Myth of Survivalism | Quote |
The replies to my post prove a point. Out of 17 only 3 or 4 were constructive. The rest, I am not sure why they even bothered to post a reply because they amounted to nothing but mindless drivel. Quoting: Coldwarkid 89855
i'd say if you don't have a sense of humor...you won't make it through anything. and it wasn't drivel as malu decided to change his dream.
are you the same one who made the thread about how you are a doctor and your practice got wiped out so your survival days are over?
agree totally with Evil Twin...what do you expect for posts when you claim all is hopeless? it's not btw.
if you're tired of surviving off the land and it's too difficult for you...then i s'pose you'll have trouble when chit happens...but don't assume that's how everyone will handle things. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 115853
2/22/2007 8:27 PM | | Re: The Myth of Survivalism | Quote |
I have something that most women will need. I'm a midwife. I'll never beg for bread or shelter....Thank you God. |
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Lazecat
User ID: 196546
2/23/2007 1:01 PM | | Re: The Myth of Survivalism | Quote |
and...make sure you aren't still in your towel...*wave to your cousin*
if i wave my towel drops! that was a dilemna,,,, one hand had to hold the gun....
ok,,, i will pick a differnt dream,,, cosco Quoting: malu
Hey there.....I'll take care of holding the towel....you hold the guns...... |
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Coldwarkid
User ID: 199905
2/23/2007 2:23 PM | | Re: The Myth of Survivalism | Quote |
are you the same one who made the thread about how you are a doctor and your practice got wiped out so your survival days are over? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 199461
Yes, I was one of several doctors that got wiped out in the purchase of a clinic that was undermined by a corporate management group. It has little to do with my opinion about survivalism in general. Most of it has come from recent personal experience and change of perspective.
Basically, my thesis is that virtually all of the survival books I have read are nonsense simply because none of the authors have had any first hand experience in a long term survival situation.
I would much rather hear from someone that lived through the war in the Balkans or the collapse of the Soviet Union (Dimitri Orlov has done several excellent essays on the subject).
I am just saying that if what happened to the SU even comes close to what happens in the US "conventional survivalism" is going to be of limited use. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 409941
4/7/2008 12:24 AM | | Re: The Myth of Survivalism | Quote |
A year ago I wrote this thread. Little did I know how accuate my thoughts were. |
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 317795
4/7/2008 11:00 AM | | Re: The Myth of Survivalism | Quote |
The replies to my post prove a point. Out of 17 only 3 or 4 were constructive. The rest, I am not sure why they even bothered to post a reply because they amounted to nothing but mindless drivel. Quoting: Coldwarkid 89855
Well maybe that's your survival percentage right there. Many people will give up when they find they can't play video games or watch TV, because that's all they live for. Many others will start to re-learn the old skills. That knowledge will spread and grow. I agree there will be a great die-off. I'm not gonna worry about it, just hope to be flexible and adapt to whatever circumstances may bring. (also printing out a file on what plants are edible in my local area...) |
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Canuck
User ID: 409715
4/7/2008 12:47 PM
 | | Re: The Myth of Survivalism | Quote |
A year ago I wrote this thread. Little did I know how accuate my thoughts were. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 409941
HI OP,
What are you doing now in your life? Still living off the grid?
I ask because I am interested. . . .
“I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as fraud.”
CARL JUNG IN 1919
"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those who don't have it." - George Bernard Shaw
Cree proverb:
Only after the last tree has been cut down, only after the last river has been poisoned, only after the last fish has been caught, only then will you find, that money cannot be eaten.
"Mankind's true moral test, its fundamental test (which lies deeply buried from view) consists of its attitude towards those who are at its mercy - animals."
-Milan Kundera, "The Unbearable Lightness of Being" (1984) |
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Alzaya
User ID: 355816
4/7/2008 12:55 PM
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I came to much the same conclusion...I more than likely could not sustain myself,and if I have thousands of dollars worth of supplies, I would have to share them with others....so it would just take longer for the almost sure inevitable.
Alzaya
[link to wwunited.org] |
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Lester
User ID: 410374
4/7/2008 1:40 PM | | Re: The Myth of Survivalism | Quote |
The OP is full of shit:
"Having had relatives from NOLA, few are back on their feet. Friends and acquaintences coming back from Iraq are changed people. I lived through the Texas S&L crisis and saw a 70% vacancy rate in downtown. In some areas of town, commerical real estate were boarded up and under the Resolution Trust Corporation. 1 out of 3 Houstonians filed for bankrupcy. There were tent cities with as many as 7,000 people homeless in many areas."
NOLA was a shit hole for 20 years before Katrina. Why else did every New Orleanian with means move to St. Tammany parish? There was no 70% vacancy rate in any downtown, anywhere in Texas; unless you are talking about some hick town in Far East or Far West Texas that was becoming deserted. Bankruptcy in Houston was about 1/100th of the incidence you cite. Times were tough, or they were very good.
There is no "myth of survivalism".
God Makes our way. HE Provides.
If you think otherwise, no matter how well developed your community or storehouse, you will fail. |
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