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I can't believe the Germans allowed the Soviet Operation Uranus in WWII to succeed

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 74732035
Finland
04/21/2017 06:57 AM
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I can't believe the Germans allowed the Soviet Operation Uranus in WWII to succeed
The Germans were so focused on capturing the remaining 10% of Stalingrad that they depleted their forces AND reserves in that battle, neglected their own flanks by leaving only lightly armed infantry divisions from Italy and Romania to guard them, and did not reorient the armored forces in Stalingrad to face the new threat (at least in time).

As a result, the entire 6th Army and 24th Panzer Division of the 4th Panzer Army got encircled. They did not try to break out (ok, so Hitler told them not to) at once and held on until the Soviets had enough reinforcements to prevent all attempts to relieve them - like the Operation Winter Storm/LVII Panzer Corps.

Consequently, they had to surrender. Losing an entire Army Group is incomprehensible. Massive, massive tactical and strategic mistakes by the military geniuses like Manstein on the ground and other famous generals in the High Command.

Was it all due to Hitler's incompetence, or did the capture of Stalingrad blind even the generals to the danger?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 74609369
04/21/2017 07:01 AM
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Re: I can't believe the Germans allowed the Soviet Operation Uranus in WWII to succeed
They ran out of gasoline after Brits cut them off from middle eastern suplly lines.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 74392168
Czech Republic
04/21/2017 07:05 AM
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Re: I can't believe the Germans allowed the Soviet Operation Uranus in WWII to succeed
Commander of the 6th Army asked for a permission to retreat and, later, break out many times but the High Command and Hitler, in particular, rejected the ideas until it was too late.

The German High Command is to blame for the collapse of the Easter Front. The Germans were facing an overwhelming enemy in terms of men, weapons, weapons production capability and increasingly improving tactical and operational skills of Soviet troops and generals. Fighting withdrawal, stubborn defense and protecting the captured oil fields would have been a better stategy.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 74392168
Czech Republic
04/21/2017 07:07 AM
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Re: I can't believe the Germans allowed the Soviet Operation Uranus in WWII to succeed
They ran out of gasoline after Brits cut them off from middle eastern suplly lines.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74609369


What supply lines? They had perfectly adequate oil supply in Romania (Ploesti fields).
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 74732035
Finland
04/21/2017 07:15 AM
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Re: I can't believe the Germans allowed the Soviet Operation Uranus in WWII to succeed
Commander of the 6th Army asked for a permission to retreat and, later, break out many times but the High Command and Hitler, in particular, rejected the ideas until it was too late.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74392168

True.

Part of the blame for the destruction of the 6th Army goes to General (later Field Marshall) Paulus, too. He trusted Hitler's and Göring's word on Germany being able to air-supply a friggin' Army, and chose not to disobey orders and break out. Most likely he would have lost his life as a result, but a lot of German lives would have been saved by a successful break out.

The air-supply operation would have been logistically impossible even with total air-superiority, which the Germans didn't have.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 74732035
Finland
04/21/2017 07:27 AM
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Re: I can't believe the Germans allowed the Soviet Operation Uranus in WWII to succeed
Fighting withdrawal, stubborn defense and protecting the captured oil fields would have been a better stategy.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74392168

It would have bought more time but the time was not on Germany's side. The number of troops and production capability of Soviet Union by far surpassed that of Germany, and the Soviet military was getting close to being on par with the Germans both in tech and tactical skills.

The grand strategic goal of the entire southern theatre was to capture the Soviet oil fields in the Baku-region. That would have been a decapitating blow to the Soviet war effort as the vast majority (something like 72%) of Soviet gas and oil supplies came from those fields. Capture it and you cripple the Soviet war effort. It was really the only realistic option to put the war in the east to an end. Much better than capturing and holding Moscow, for instance. However, German defeat in Stalingrad crushed those hopes and after that it was pretty hopeless.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 73835282
Sweden
04/21/2017 08:12 AM
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Re: I can't believe the Germans allowed the Soviet Operation Uranus in WWII to succeed
I'll bet OP secretly wants that Nazis would have triumphed... Finns were allied with the Nazis and still hate the Russians.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 73835282
Sweden
04/21/2017 05:25 PM
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Re: I can't believe the Germans allowed the Soviet Operation Uranus in WWII to succeed
LOL @ Uranus. lmao

Why not name it Operation Anus? They attacked Germans in the rear, after all.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 71571643
Ireland
04/21/2017 05:32 PM
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Re: I can't believe the Germans allowed the Soviet Operation Uranus in WWII to succeed
Maybe that was the overall plan, the self destruction of Germany and enslavement of its people. Hitler most likely played his part here. He forced the white German Christian youth to slaughter their White Christian brethren to the East, creating an eternal hatred between the brothers then he collapsed the country and left it to the Wolves of the West, who sent mixed race masses to subdue and rape the broken vessel formerly known as the Fatherland

I'm not a racist, the World is what it is in our time, i'm just saying it as I see it

It was a terrible time to be alive for those that perished
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 72648262
Philippines
04/21/2017 05:47 PM
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Re: I can't believe the Germans allowed the Soviet Operation Uranus in WWII to succeed
Maybe that was the overall plan, the self destruction of Germany and enslavement of its people. Hitler most likely played his part here. He forced the white German Christian youth to slaughter their White Christian brethren to the East, creating an eternal hatred between the brothers then he collapsed the country and left it to the Wolves of the West, who sent mixed race masses to subdue and rape the broken vessel formerly known as the Fatherland

I'm not a racist, the World is what it is in our time, i'm just saying it as I see it

It was a terrible time to be alive for those that perished
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71571643


Every other race is racist. The more cunning ones convince the ones that have lost their instincts that being such is wrong. This way they destroy you.


Nothing wrong with favoring one's race. Don't let them fool you.

I am no white supremacist.

I'd have to be white lol
Educated Redneck

User ID: 69010652
United States
04/22/2017 02:42 PM
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Re: I can't believe the Germans allowed the Soviet Operation Uranus in WWII to succeed
Commander of the 6th Army asked for a permission to retreat and, later, break out many times but the High Command and Hitler, in particular, rejected the ideas until it was too late.

The German High Command is to blame for the collapse of the Easter Front. The Germans were facing an overwhelming enemy in terms of men, weapons, weapons production capability and increasingly improving tactical and operational skills of Soviet troops and generals. Fighting withdrawal, stubborn defense and protecting the captured oil fields would have been a better stategy.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74392168


This was another Hitler blunder in that he wouldn't allow a fighting withdrawal. The WWI corporal Hitler liked to play commander in chief and he fucked up a lot. Strategic withdrawals to prevent such encirclements is a part of military strategy, yet Hitler often refused to allow the German army to pull back when his leaders pointed out that was the best course of action. The German High Command isn't to blame. The Soviet Union was just too large and they all knew if they couldn't knock the Soviet Union out quickly Germany would lose a war of attrition.

And really by this point Germany had lost. Oh, the German army was still powerful and would have more victories but their invasion of the Soviet Union had not forced Stalin to seek peace. The Red Army grew in size and strength and the German supply lines were over stretched. The Germans had to rely on Romanian troops to guard their flanks... yet the Germans didn't supply the Romanians with tanks or artillery.

The sons of Germany would fight and die for several more years because the little guy with the funny mustache was a moran.


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