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Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 74195287
Argentina
06/16/2017 08:18 AM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
for those believe our sun is a nuclear reactor, ask yourself few questions.

why does all the nuclear fuel not ignite at once?

how nuclear reaction produces heat/energy?

how the energy reaches earth?

if the sun has shot out energy for 5 billion years, where is all that energy?

what is energy?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59686777


bsflag
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73775109


This account has been hacked.

I didn´t post, under 73775109, the BS flag.

I don´t use these things. How come did this happened? Weird!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74195287


I'm very sorry. This was not me.

Lo siento, compatriota. Mi error.
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2017 08:25 AM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
"Maxwell ... Heaviside .... They shaped the current world." And they didn't believe in electron particles either.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75088469


In a sense that is true but quite disingenuous since the electron was discovered 20 years after Maxwell died.

However, Maxwell is responsible for the kinetic theory of gases which assumes gases are composed of small spherical particles, molecules. So had no problems with accepting a particle nature of matter.

Maxwell also discusses the proposed particle nature of current in his paper on electromagnetism but explains he chose a field description because he wanted to describe the space between bodies, which is what fields do.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73775109


One of the goals of this true genius was to write an unified theory about electricity and magnetism and, man, he did it in a magnifiscient way: Only 4 equations that tell it all. Modern telecommunications developed from those equations.

What is incredible is that Maxwell figure out the speed of light by theoretical means in his equations.

He observed that the equations were similar to wave equations already known, and figure out "c" as:

The square root of the product of the permittivity of free space, and the permeability of free space, constants already known but not with their correct values by 1865.
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2017 09:13 AM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
So, if electrons were important in electronic circuits, flowin several meters in complex equipment, now they have been replaced by line of codes that use THE SAME THEORY but in a virtual way.

It has to shock some of you, don't you think?

We've replaced an elementary particle by BITS!!

no electrons flow in circuits? codes and bits flow in circuits?

how? what is bit? how it moves?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59686777


BITS of data. Electric signals are sampled at Gigahertz speed, using 8-12-14 bits per sample (it depends). Then, each digital word (the sample) is stored in a RAM memory and processed with a program. An DSP is used (Digital Signal Processor) wich is a RISC type CPU with equal lenght instructions.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75084354


The DSP is just a microprocessor optimized for math.

You can do the necessary calculations (FIR filters, etc) on any computer (but it may be too slow, too expensive, etc), or, in the case of a FIR filter with just a few taps, by hand just to see how it works.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75088469


Actually it is not correct. Texas Instrument developed first a DSP on a single chip by 1982 (TMS 320 family), wich allowed to perform fixed point 16bits instructions at 10 MIPS (millions of instructions per second). Today there are several manufacturers and DSP uses floating point 32 bits instructions, developing peak 2000 MegaFlops.

DSP are RISC based chips, wich uses a single word per instruction, opposite to CISC CPUs like Intel and AMD CPU used for PCs.

This regularity allows to control the SYNCHRONOUS FLOW of instructions, when dealing with real time analog signals.

Discrete FIR filters are old. Today, everything is done in the DSP of the device. Any smartphone, for instance, has a DSP core for processing 3G/4G radio signals, plus a general purpose ARM or Intel core, wich run the OS (Apple, Android, Windows Mobile, etc.)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75089562


This is off-topic, so I will be brief. Digital Signal Processing (DSP) is a technique, not a
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2017 09:39 AM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
qm is still the top seller in science

big bang science's ass i want to
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59686777


QM and electromagnetic theory are TOP notch and provides industrial and scientifical tools to develop new things every day.

Gravity theories are a waste of time, with a zillion theories disputing the WRONG relativity, wich is flawed everywhere, specially explaining galaxies movements and rare cosmic events. This theories are for the MACRO universe, and are useless for earthly matters, as opposite are to the MICRO universe wich uses QM and electromagnetism (this micro universe is our Earth and the Solar system).

Both theories are applied on spaces and times that are billions of time larger one with each other.

Nobody believes seriously in the BBT, and cosmologists are working on string theories to explain gravity, dark energy and dark matter. It's kind of trendy today, but there are new theories that will displace the current one.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75084354


fart as you wish

qm is total bs

what is quantum state? what is energy level?

there is only 1 force between protons and electrons in any atoms, the electrostatic attraction force, f=Ke x q1q2/rr.

what is qm based on? what to calculate?

you sure can read a lot bs, take as gold.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59686777


Right, QM is BS. But that computer you are using to spread your lies was designed with taking QM into account. The transistor is a quantum mechanical device. So are lasers, diodes, MRI, LEDs, CCDs, the atomic force microscope, superfluids and superconductors, carbon nanotubes, and a host of other devices.

So go ahead and whine about how hard and difficult it is to understand. But lucky for you the rest of the world does not share such an infantile view of how physics can and does work.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75007420


No. The transistor works because someone in the late 1800's noticed a rectifying effect in a certain mineral crystal (galena). That knowledge was used to make more refined versions of devices that operated on similar principles, leading to the invention of the transistor in 1948.

(The transistor was invented because of a rock, not because of a theory.)

Just because someone (Einstein and friends) calls it "Quantum", and provides an explanation based upon "Quantum Theory", does not mean that explanation is accurate.

As an example, gunpowder was invented over 1000 years ago by the Chinese, but the true nature of combustion (the work of oxygen) was not understood until the 1700's.

People were using gunpowder in fireworks and of course guns for hundreds of years before understanding how exactly it worked.

The lack of true knowledge of the nature of oxygen (present in the potassium nitrate) did not prevent people from making guns.

The "scientific theory" of "phlogiston" was used to explain combustion before the true nature of oxygen was discovered.

In this case, Quantum Theory is like the theory of "phlogiston", accepted by mainstream science, but totally wrong.

Some "scientist" could say "You don't believe in phlogiston? Watch what happens when I shoot you with my gun", and think he's won the case, but his phlogiston explanation is bogus.
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2017 09:47 AM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
"Maxwell ... Heaviside .... They shaped the current world." And they didn't believe in electron particles either.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75088469


In a sense that is true but quite disingenuous since the electron was discovered 20 years after Maxwell died.

However, Maxwell is responsible for the kinetic theory of gases which assumes gases are composed of small spherical particles, molecules. So had no problems with accepting a particle nature of matter.

Maxwell also discusses the proposed particle nature of current in his paper on electromagnetism but explains he chose a field description because he wanted to describe the space between bodies, which is what fields do.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73775109


One of the goals of this true genius was to write an unified theory about electricity and magnetism and, man, he did it in a magnifiscient way: Only 4 equations that tell it all. Modern telecommunications developed from those equations.

What is incredible is that Maxwell figure out the speed of light by theoretical means in his equations.

He observed that the equations were similar to wave equations already known, and figure out "c" as:

The square root of the product of the permittivity of free space, and the permeability of free space, constants already known but not with their correct values by 1865.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74195287


"Only 4 equations that tell it all"

Actually, Maxwell himself wrote more complex equations. The 4 equations which bear his name today were developed by Oliver Heaviside based upon Maxwell's work.

Note that neither Maxwell or Heaviside believed in "particles" and they certainly did not believe in QM.
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2017 09:51 AM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
"Maxwell ... Heaviside .... They shaped the current world." And they didn't believe in electron particles either.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75088469


In a sense that is true but quite disingenuous since the electron was discovered 20 years after Maxwell died.

However, Maxwell is responsible for the kinetic theory of gases which assumes gases are composed of small spherical particles, molecules. So had no problems with accepting a particle nature of matter.

Maxwell also discusses the proposed particle nature of current in his paper on electromagnetism but explains he chose a field description because he wanted to describe the space between bodies, which is what fields do.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73775109


"the electron was discovered 20 years after Maxwell died"

No, the electron explanation was invented in 1897, and Thomson "won a prize" for it in 1906. No actual electron was discovered.
dogman17

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06/16/2017 10:11 AM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
Gravity propagation is not instantaneous, but it is many orders of magnitude faster than the speed of light. Do some research.
frp
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2017 10:39 AM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
Gravity propagation is not instantaneous, but it is many orders of magnitude faster than the speed of light. Do some research.
 Quoting: dogman17


how do you know reaches are correct?

do you understand that double slit and aether experiments are done in air not in vacuum?

light is passing through air not vacuum?

do you know some of the data are faked to match math predictions?

you must do your own research, not read and believe all bs.
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2017 10:45 AM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
for those think the electron is not a real particle, ask yourself.

without electron, where is the negative charge? what carries electric force? how are atoms formed?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 59686777
United States
06/16/2017 10:48 AM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
for those believe our sun is a nuclear reactor, ask yourself few questions.

why does all the nuclear fuel not ignite at once?

how nuclear reaction produces heat/energy?

how the energy reaches earth?

if the sun has shot out energy for 5 billion years, where is all that energy?

what is energy?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59686777


Your questions are valid and good, but I had to sleep last night.

Hi, I've told you some of my background.
I'm curious about you. Can you brief me what did you study (or are studying), line of work and age? Thanks.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75089562


50 years ago i put a rock on each hand, overlap my hands try to figure out gravity.

60 years ago, been asked what i want to be when growing up, i want to be a scientist.

major in physics, my professor told the class that he helped his professor faked data to get a nobel.

dropped out for pussy and never get back school.

the first doubt in science is atomic structure theories.

electron shells? 1s2d3p my ass. quantum state? nuton state?

read a lot, google a lot, banned by every science forum.

glp is the only place i can talk freely. too bad tri no like science.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
06/16/2017 10:58 AM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
for those think the electron is not a real particle, ask yourself.

without electron, where is the negative charge? what carries electric force? how are atoms formed?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59686777


Why do you think a force or field needs a particle to carry it?
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2017 11:08 AM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
the most beautiful thing in the universe is mystery

we are leafs on the tree of life

who quoted those?
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2017 11:14 AM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
for those think the electron is not a real particle, ask yourself.

without electron, where is the negative charge? what carries electric force? how are atoms formed?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59686777


Why do you think a force or field needs a particle to carry it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75088469


mass carries gravity

charged particles carry charges/electrostatic forces

magnet/charged particles carry magnetic force.

facts, without matter/charged particles, there is no force, no field, nothing exists.
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2017 11:26 AM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
If a star explodes, the radiation waves (X, gamma, etc.) would reach Earth at the speed of light (assume a constant "c" vakue).

But what about gravity? Gravitational waves weren't included in Einstein body of work.

Just recently, some gravitational waves were sensed, but no speed has been measured yet.

Are the gravity effects instantaneous?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75026031


Is there a speed faster than light? Is there a speed faster than gravity? My best guess there is.
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2017 11:29 AM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
"Speed of gravity" sounds really funny, correct term is frequency of polarity change.
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2017 11:29 AM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
If a star explodes, the radiation waves (X, gamma, etc.) would reach Earth at the speed of light (assume a constant "c" vakue).

But what about gravity? Gravitational waves weren't included in Einstein body of work.

Just recently, some gravitational waves were sensed, but no speed has been measured yet.

Are the gravity effects instantaneous?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75026031


Is there a speed faster than light? Is there a speed faster than gravity? My best guess there is.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 38629378


We the retarded earthlings haven't discovered it yet.
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2017 11:43 AM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
a train travels at 100 m/h cannot push a man to 101 m/h.

nothing can move faster than the force that accelerates it.

ftl traveling is impossible in reality.
Anonymous Coward
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Argentina
06/16/2017 12:36 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
for those believe our sun is a nuclear reactor, ask yourself few questions.

why does all the nuclear fuel not ignite at once?

how nuclear reaction produces heat/energy?

how the energy reaches earth?

if the sun has shot out energy for 5 billion years, where is all that energy?

what is energy?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59686777


Your questions are valid and good, but I had to sleep last night.

Hi, I've told you some of my background.
I'm curious about you. Can you brief me what did you study (or are studying), line of work and age? Thanks.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75089562


50 years ago i put a rock on each hand, overlap my hands try to figure out gravity.

60 years ago, been asked what i want to be when growing up, i want to be a scientist.

major in physics, my professor told the class that he helped his professor faked data to get a nobel.

dropped out for pussy and never get back school.

the first doubt in science is atomic structure theories.

electron shells? 1s2d3p my ass. quantum state? nuton state?

read a lot, google a lot, banned by every science forum.

glp is the only place i can talk freely. too bad tri no like science.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59686777


I can tell that we are close in our age. Sorry for your bad experiences in other forums. Regarding Sci Fi, I'm a big fan, but of the good stuff (clasics).

Did you try to write a short story with your ideas and some weird stuff added? I tried long time ago, but I failed miserably. Didn't liked what I wrote and never tried again. I am very technical person, and a good writer has also to know HOW to tell stories, and I don't have it. Instead I wrote a couple of technical handbooks on telecommunications.

And finally, NOBODY KNOWS SHIT! And I extend this to every f*cking discipline in the world.

I tell you a short anecdote. When writing a handbook on telecomm, I wanted to make it integral, so I devoted a Chapter to talk about hearing, speech and vission systems in the human body. This knowledge has been vital to develop the current standards (ITU and other bodies) for transmiting and receiving levels of the voice and in the development of analog TV, B&W or colour.

I get involved deeply in scientific papers that TRIED to explain HOW the humans LISTEN. It happens that, as of today, NOTHING is known beyond the middle ear!! So, the inner ear subsystem (cochlear system) is a MISTERY, because is a sealed system. Every time they try to make even a micro-opening in the cochlea to put micro-mirros and use laser interferometry to understand how the Corti organ works, they KILL IT. The Corti organ looks like a little worm embedded in a bone with spiral shape, and is filled with a fluid like water, and is sealed with a membrane that connects to the bones of the middle ear.

First disections of a cochlea were made around 1850. 120 years have passed and the MEDICAL SCIENCE can't go beyond this point. They DON'T KNOW how the Cochlea works.

Therefore, they know less about circa 4000 neurones (large ones) that goes to the opposite cerebral auditive cortex.

But, and this is the funny thing, they know LESS of about 35000 neurons that goes back from the brain to the cochlea, forming an extraordinary closed loop control circuit just for the hearing in one ear. Double the problem with both ears.

ENTER ENGINEERING - EXIST SCIENTISTS: Engineers, since late 70's have developed prostetic that REPLACES a damaged Cochlea. This prostetic connects to a mic on the ear AND to less than 50-100 neurons (of the 4000 that goes to the brain), and VOILÁ!, people can LEARN to ear again.

More than 500.000 implants of Cochlea so far.

And "doctors" don't know how the human being ears.

That's the difference between science and engineering. The last discipline uses the basic knowledge of science and takes shortcuts to get results.

This line of thought has been vital in microelectronics development since the beggining.

Don't take my word. Take the word of Andy Groove, founder and former CEO of Intel, who made it such a monster as it is today.

This anecdote can be applied to every field where engineering crosses with science to produce technology, and include quantum mechanics and else.

Gravity is not a subject of work for engineers. If it were, they would have found already ANTIGRAVITY devices.
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2017 12:36 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
for those think the electron is not a real particle, ask yourself.

without electron, where is the negative charge? what carries electric force? how are atoms formed?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59686777


Why do you think a force or field needs a particle to carry it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75088469


mass carries gravity

charged particles carry charges/electrostatic forces

magnet/charged particles carry magnetic force.

facts, without matter/charged particles, there is no force, no field, nothing exists.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59686777


What you are saying is the way most people think, but it is actually backwards.

Particles (electrons, etc) do not carry charge, magnetic forces, or anything. There are none of those particles.

There are electro-magnetic forces, and everything that has mass is composed of stable arrangements of such.
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2017 12:47 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
"Maxwell ... Heaviside .... They shaped the current world." And they didn't believe in electron particles either.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75088469


In a sense that is true but quite disingenuous since the electron was discovered 20 years after Maxwell died.

However, Maxwell is responsible for the kinetic theory of gases which assumes gases are composed of small spherical particles, molecules. So had no problems with accepting a particle nature of matter.

Maxwell also discusses the proposed particle nature of current in his paper on electromagnetism but explains he chose a field description because he wanted to describe the space between bodies, which is what fields do.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73775109


"the electron was discovered 20 years after Maxwell died"

No, the electron explanation was invented in 1897, and Thomson "won a prize" for it in 1906. No actual electron was discovered.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75088469



You keep believing this fake science of yours. See how far you really get.
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2017 12:48 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
Gravity propagation is not instantaneous, but it is many orders of magnitude faster than the speed of light. Do some research.
 Quoting: dogman17


No Speed of light
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2017 12:49 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
"Speed of gravity" sounds really funny, correct term is frequency of polarity change.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4141181


No it isn't. Gravity doesn't undergo "polarity changes".
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2017 02:54 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
2 masses/bodies at distance r, attract each other with a force f=G x m1m2/rr. this is the most correct proven physics law.

if 1 mass is moving/vibrating, the other mass will sense the force at the same frequency.

just like if you put opposite magnet poles in each hand, wave 1 hand and feel the force on another hand.

the force, no matter tension or attraction, is like a real thing connecting all matters at any distance.

force is the carrier of energy/light/thermal radiation/em waves.

spooky action at a distance is bs

all motions are caused by force act on mass/matter.

all forces are electrostatic force in nature, it has a fixed speed.

no mass/matter can exist at different position/space at same time.

nothing can pass distance instantly. not even forces or thoughts.

nothing is ever stopped moving.

cus force is immortal, energy is conserved.
CK722

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06/16/2017 03:15 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
Enjoyable thought provoking thread.

hf
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2017 03:19 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
is Gravity limited to c?

black holes can pull faster than c thats why they are black.


this can only be possible if

1. Time is relative and c speeds up as you approach the black hole.
Einstein is right


Or

2. Gravity is faster than light.
Einstein is wrong.



I vote for 1 but science isn't a vote(except global warming)

How do we test?
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2017 03:35 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
without matter, there is no energy, no force, nothing. no us, no thought.

matter is made from charged particles.

opposite charged particles attract each other, they collide like magnet and iron ball. the impact force/energy becomes heat/thermal energy of the atoms.

the more atoms get together by gravity attraction, the more mass is added, the higher thermal energy density, the higher temperature.

so bigger star carry more energy, produce stronger light.

the energy is stored in vibrating atoms/charged particles.

the energy a star carry is the vibrating gravity and electrostatic force in its total mass/charges.

the sun's energy is from star formation, the sun is not an active nuclear reactor.

the energy cannot vanish into space but share with other matters surround according to their distance.
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2017 03:37 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
Enjoyable thought provoking thread.

hf
 Quoting: CK722


no kidding

better than weed smoking plus pussy grabbing
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2017 03:57 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
10 mph.
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2017 04:26 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
Gravity is an invented name just as gravity?

False theories filling in the gaps?

Does it bend water?

Is it anything?
Anonymous Coward
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06/16/2017 04:31 PM
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Re: Unresolved mistery: What is the speed of Gravity?
is Gravity limited to c?

black holes can pull faster than c thats why they are black.


this can only be possible if

1. Time is relative and c speeds up as you approach the black hole.
Einstein is right


Or

2. Gravity is faster than light.
Einstein is wrong.



I vote for 1 but science isn't a vote(except global warming)

How do we test?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1712129


Neither statement is correct. The speed of light is constant even near a black hole. Simple observations have shown that light bends near a massive object. Light has been observed to bend when light from a distant star passes near the Sun.

So to, light bends near a black hole only the bending is so strong that the light is unable to escape.


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